@Violant: My take on Zeitgeist has the tech level being somewhere between Steampunk and Teslapunk, so I'd say that early electrical developments are starting to come to the fore.
The setting generally uses Commonplace Guns. But for the purposes of requisitioning gear from the R.H.C., it's Guns Everywhere. I'm willing to rule in favor of whatever would benefit a firearm-using PC the most, even if that requires a tiny bending of the rules.
@Master Han Del of the Web: Sorry about that! I really hated to shoot down that awesome idea, I just couldn't justify it no matter how much I tried to rationalize it.
@Crisischild: Considering the Technologist background gives access to a medium or large sized "Steamsuit" which is basically either power armor or a small-scale mech, I'd say that a large unit works just fine.
@Tavius: Do you honestly believe I'd make the PCs encounter an optimized sniper foe in a fantasy steampunk setting? Because, well... you're kinda right!
@eriktd: A 'techno-necromancer' eh? Looks pretty cool!
@Karshin Shattershield: Interesting! Those extendable claws definitely make sense given how ancient dwarves were allies of the ancient Demonocracy and there's likely some kind of fiendish corruption in select bloodlines.
@Crisischild: I don't have a set date in mind, but the idea is that it won't take as long as my Coliseum Morpheuon recruitment considering it's a whole lot less work-intensive.
The setting generally uses Commonplace Guns. But for the purposes of requisitioning gear from the R.H.C., it's Guns Everywhere. I'm willing to rule in favor of whatever would benefit a firearm-using PC the most, even if that requires a tiny bending of the rules.
The main reason I asked was just in case we got stranded somewhere, we'd need someone with Gunsmithing :P I'll probably leave it as it is, the mix of advanced firearms but still reliant on yourself for making every bit of it is how I imagine the character. Oh yeah, and one extra damage point lol. Ended up going with Guns Everywhere but burning a feat on Gunsmithing.
And god, right between steampunk and teslapunk? Okay I love your takke on the setting so much already just at those words, hehe.
That's a lot of incanting.
I think Incanter works better in gestalt than on it's own. It reinforces the beats of the first class better than going with a class with a stronger theme.
@Tavius: Do you honestly believe I'd make the PCs encounter an optimized sniper foe in a fantasy steampunk setting? Because, well... you're kinda right!
That's why I'm making sure that people are aware of this. In a less-optimized game, called shots can be overkill. But with the resources we have, most characters should have some way to deal with it.
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I think Incanter works better in gestalt than on it's own. It reinforces the beats of the first class better than going with a class with a stronger theme.
That's a good observation. I think that's why I ended up with Conscript, the SoM parallel of the Incanter. Armorist fulfills the flavor I'm going for and Conscript supports without getting in the way with a mountain of class abilities that I'm not really interested in.
Karshin Shattershield: Interesting! Those extendable claws definitely make sense given how ancient dwarves were allies of the ancient Demonocracy and there's likely some kind of fiendish corruption in select bloodlines.
Glad you liked it! It’s what drew me in. :)
I'd have gone with spellcasting as well, but this is my first time doing spheres so I'd rather have basically-a-gunslinger with Technician.
That's a lot of incanting.
Oh I hear you. I almost made a cavalier/technician. A knight in steam powered armor on a mechanical horse. But the Drakr background spoke to me too much. I just like Kardin better.
For incanters? I echo Philo and Chrischild. They are great for bringing out the best in other classes. Using Kardin as an example: I wanted three things.
(1) For him to be good with a gun. Gunslinger did that.
(2) For him to have a Drakran connection to a tainted bloodline. Incanter gave me the bloodline. (3) For him to be great at enchanting his pistol. Incanter gave me all of the spells I’d need (lots of spheres!) but most importantly enhancement specialization.
But for so many builds, they can compliment whatever theme you are going for. Bloodlines, channeling, domains, etc…
I already have a gunslinger-caster gestalt out there, so I didn't want to try my luck with Spherecasting, Spheres is already enough time spent on character creation.
I love incanters, but Lacrimadia is really a soul weaver. I gave her a single level of incanter for only one reason: so that her channel energy is keyed to Intelligence instead of Charisma. :P
Haha, that's the only reason Ana's a Siege Gunner! Hard to function otherwise with a WIS penalty!
Question regarding non Spheres classes:
Additionally, any class with a Spheres archetype is allowed so long as you take one of those archetypes and have no Vancian spells, psionic manifesting, veilweaving, etc once everything is said and done. Again, I'd like to keep this game purely Spheres.
Could you take a non Spheres class, with a Spheres archetype **and** a non Spheres archetype, provided you end up with none of the above banned 'casting'(and assuming they don't overlap)?
I mean, I figured that was "and have no Vancian Spheres," and I assumed as much when making Ana.
Hmmm, this talk about Conscripts/Incanters, and how strong/useful they are in Gestalt, reminds me of the Evolutionist from Giant in the Playground.
As a class, its kinda basic, mostly a 'build your own monster' class that is meant to focus on natural weapons with maybe one or two exotic abilities. But the problem is that when it gets put into Gestalt, it turns into pure gas, taking the other side of the Gestalt and jacking it up to 10 with bonus feats, increased ability scores, and other such tricks.
Not sure if it's quite the same thing here or not, but yeah. I can see why Conscript and/or Incanter are popular as one side of a Gestalt. Helps turn a build online easier with all those bonus talents and feats.
Submissions thus far:
Kardin Shieldshatter - Dwarven Gunslinger/Incanter
Tavius Vincelli - Deva elementalist 1/hedgewitch 4/incanter 5
Hey Grumbaki, can I suggest that you include each submission's Character Theme in your summary? I think it's pretty distinguishing as far as character type and likely roles the character will play, and so on. Lacrimadia's a Spirit Medium.
Hmmm, this talk about Conscripts/Incanters, and how strong/useful they are in Gestalt, reminds me of the Evolutionist from Giant in the Playground.
As a class, its kinda basic, mostly a 'build your own monster' class that is meant to focus on natural weapons with maybe one or two exotic abilities. But the problem is that when it gets put into Gestalt, it turns into pure gas, taking the other side of the Gestalt and jacking it up to 10 with bonus feats, increased ability scores, and other such tricks.
I hadn't seen that one before, and boy does gestalt change the balance. for those who haven't seen it it starts out with the worst in BAB, saves, and skill points. But you can spend your mutation points to improve any of these. With Gestalt, your other class will be better with some of these, leaving more mutation points for everything else.
@eriktd: A 'techno-necromancer' eh? Looks pretty cool!
Thanks! Certainly an unconventional necromancer, that's for sure. I think of her as more of a healer, since all of her undead minions will be raised into living bodies or used to power living constructs. I'm also dipping my toes into skill talents for the first time, making her something of an "operative lite" -- she feels kind of like an inquisitor with all of her altered Int-based social skills and focus on Knowledges. Only three Guile spheres (Artifice, Study, and of course Vocation), so it should be pretty easy to learn how they work and what she can do.
Ana's a technologist, for what it's worth.
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So many thanks to eriktd for pointing this out to me! I have some rules questions:
“Guns Everywhere: Guns are commonplace. Early firearms are seen as antiques, and advanced firearms are widespread. Firearms are simple weapons, and early firearms, advanced guns, and their ammunition are bought or crafted for 10% of the cost listed in this chapter. The gunslinger loses the gunsmith class feature and instead gains the gun training class feature at 1st level.”
Is this in effect? Because if so…I’m thinking of going Gunslinger 1 Blacksmith everything else.
Furthermore:
“Gunsmith
The blacksmith gains proficiency with all firearms, gains the Gunsmithing feat as a bonus feat, and may make sunder attempts at range when using a firearm, using his Dexterity in place of his Strength modifier when determining his combat maneuver bonus…”
With guns everywhere would this give gunslinger’s gun training? Because if so, I’d just go straight gunsmith blacksmith.
I really hope that wouldn't give Blacksmiths gun training, or that'd make every class with starting firearm proficiencies instantly way better.
Or, if Pasha *does* decide that's the case, can we at least have it applied to anyone who takes the Firearm Proficiency talent?
Honestly... that feels way too cheap for DEX to damage, and at Guns Everywhere it is quite literally "1 level of Gunslinger". Could justify it with Blacksmith still being the people who MAKE the guns, so they'd still get Gunsmithing.
I'm with Chris: I hope not.
Just to pop in, I get that. RAW and RAI are often very different. Hence why it’s important to ask how the GM rules rather to than to just start building.
To be fair for Gun's Everywhere, you are limited from the locations you can be from, there is RP restrictions to keep in mind with building a character grabbing Dex to Damage for Guns.
That, and unless you are going full barrage, Dex to damage is hardly gamebreaking.
For a Guns Everywhere game that is Spheres-focused, it seems cruel to limit Dex-to-Damage with firearms to gunslingers only. :)
It'd probably only be those with Gunsmithing then, since that's what Gunsllinger trades out. Either that, or make the gun-proficient classes run like Trench Fighter (i.e. not at level 1)?
Between called shots and x4 gun crits, I am so glad that I have a get-out-of-crit-free card!
Another question,
How will your ban on the Leadership feat affect the Notorious Celebrity PrC, since it boosts and interacts with followers from the feat?
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My ruling on Gunsmithing is that it is NOT replaced by those who would otherwise get it, so you get both Gunsmithing AND Gun Training instead of one or the other. Like I said, I want to rule as advantageous as possible for gun users since they're far more common in this setting, yet it also makes sense for those trained in their use to be able to craft ammo.
@Ana Brunas: Glad you approve of how I envision the tech levels! I'm a big fan of both steampunk and teslapunk, something a lot of my friends could probably attest to since I didn't shut up about how cool I thought the setting for Lies of P was for weeks after beating the game.
@Crisischild: Oh yes, mechanoids are great!
And no rush, take your time. Real life always takes precedence. The recruitment isn't going anywhere for at least another dozen days or so.
@Philo Pharynx: True, true! To be fair though, I try to avoid being the GM that looks to one-shot PCs unless I make it clear beforehand that I plan on taking the gloves off, something I made clear in my Coliseum Morpheuon recruitment since the whole idea was for an uncompromising game where no one had to pull their punches and vets could enjoy both pushing limits and having their limits pushed.
And I agree heartily on your view of Incanter. It can do a LOT of heavy lifting when rounding out a gestalt character and sharpening their thematic focus.
@Monkeygod: Non-Spheres archetypes are on the table so long as they don't splice in Vancian content.
Nice catch on the Notorious Celebrity interaction! Hmmm... I'd probably rule that particular ability grants a Leadership score equal to your level for the purposes of attracting followers, functioning as sort of a pseudo-Leaderhip. My main goal with banning the Leadership feats was to cut out easy cohort access, although I still allow the Leadership Sphere because it requires heavier investment if you want useful pseudo-cohorts.
@Fury of the Tempest: Evolutionist looks interesting! I think I vaguely remember a player linking it to me years ago, but I don't think I allowed it since it was homebrew and I wasn't too well-versed in how it functioned. I will admit that I used the hell out of the Tome of Radiance stuff from Giantitp though.
@eriktd: Since this is your first foray into Spheres of Guile, just remember that some grant what is essentially free skill ranks. I overlooked it my first time using Spheres of Guile, embarassing as it is to admit.
@eriktd: Since this is your first foray into Spheres of Guile, just remember that some grant what is essentially free skill ranks. I overlooked it my first time using Spheres of Guile, embarassing as it is to admit.
Thanks for the warning! :) I think I've got that correctly sorted out. Lacrimadia's got free skill ranks in Craft (mechanical) from both Trap and Tinker, which turns into a 1/2 level competence bonus, and then the free skill ranks from Artifice get retrained into Spellcraft. Study gives free ranks in its Associated Knowledge skill, Knowledge (local). And the Fencing sphere gives 5 ranks in Bluff, too!
Yeah, especially if the setting is straddled between Commonplace and Everywhere, giving Gunsmithing makes a lot of sense. This isn't earth, so buying ammunition from just any place that sells weapon is probably not going to be viable for advanced firearm. I tend to like those in-between tech levels since they make for nice innovator characters. Alkenstar is on the verge of steampunk, and your take is on the verge of teslapunk, so a character who leans hard into proper steam power or electricity fits right in. Hence, flashlight. Granted, I'm flavoring them as bulky mid-to-late 1800s tech though. No fancy Numerian flashlights here :P
I think I'll go with Weapon Shot for the free talent I just gained with the Gunsmithing revelation. She'll be trying to disarm/remove snipers from play if at all possible. (Also gunning for fortification armor of course)
And as for the bonuses, Ana has two bonuses to her Knowledge (Engineering) from her classes, and both Craft (mechanical) and Craft (trap) ranks from her spheres.
Sorry if I’m being dumb.
“My ruling on Gunsmithing is that it is NOT replaced by those who would otherwise get it, so you get both Gunsmithing AND Gun Training instead of one or the other. Like I said, I want to rule as advantageous as possible for gun users since they're far more common in this setting, yet it also makes sense for those trained in their use to be able to craft ammo.”
So no change for a gunslinger. At lvl 1 he gets Gunsmithing and at lvl 5 he gets gun training, correct? Or does he get both at lvl 1?
And for a blacksmith, who takes “ Gunsmith
The blacksmith gains proficiency with all firearms, gains the Gunsmithing feat as a bonus feat, and may make sunder attempts at range when using a firearm, using his Dexterity in place of his Strength modifier when determining his combat maneuver bonus.”
Would he get just the Gunsmithing then, or would he get gun training too?
@Philo Pharynx: True, true! To be fair though, I try to avoid being the GM that looks to one-shot PCs unless I make it clear beforehand that I plan on taking the gloves off, something I made clear in my Coliseum Morpheuon recruitment since the whole idea was for an uncompromising game where no one had to pull their punches and vets could enjoy both pushing limits and having their limits pushed.
Oh, I wasn't implying that you intended this. There are always times when the random number gods decide to gang up one one character.
I had 5(or so) concepts originally for this game. However, as I've been reading through the Player's Guide, two of them have been cut: A Warp sphere using character who would take the dimensional agility feats. Unfortunately, the Zeitgeist setting cripples teleportation.
The other one was potentially going to be have the Martial Scientist theme, but as I read the PrC for them, I realized it was just similar enough to Vulpiano(my character in Pasha's above mentioned CM game), so I dropped that one as well.
We'll see how the others fare.
Evolutionist looks interesting! I think I vaguely remember a player linking it to me years ago, but I don't think I allowed it since it was homebrew and I wasn't too well-versed in how it functioned. I will admit that I used the hell out of the Tome of Radiance stuff from Giantitp though.
Pretty fair, homebrew is far less used than 3PP content after all, even on gittp. Which is a shame, some of the homebrew content is fun, Path of War actually started as homebrew on GITTP if you go looking for it, and I have always wanted to combine Spheres with Project Heretica.
As it is, how's the Kineticist Archetype coming along?
Very interested in this! I'll have to re-read the Zeitgeist Player Guide, since it's been a while, but I've been wanting to play it for a long time.
I'm curious to see your modified Sage? I may not go for it since Tinker and Guile beckon, but since the class is usually banned for its overpoweredness, it could be an occasion to try one version of it.
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@eriktd: Just making sure since those extra ranks help ease the skill rank drought every character eventually runs into.
@Kardin Shattershield: Both at the same time.
@Philo Pharynx: I know, I just wanted to mention it publically in case people started getting skittish.
@Fury of the Tempest: I'm not great at formatting or being super formal, so I'll just give you the changes.
- Burn can be used in place of Spell Points and vice versa, with a conversion ratio of 1 Burn to 2 Spell Points. (Burn is a LOT more costly to a character than a Spell Point, hence the lopsided conversion ratio.) Gather Power and similar features that reduce Burn cannot be used to lower Spell Point costs, nor can things that lower Spell Point costs reduce burn. This replaces Internal Buffer.
- Kinetic Blast also counts as a Destructive Blast for the purposes of modifications. They count as having the Destruction Sphere as a Bonus Magic Talent. Additionally, Destruction Talents can be taken in place of an Infusion and Blast Shape talents count as Form Infusions, while Blast Type Talents count as Substance Infusions. (This means no doubling up by having four major modifications since Blast Shape/Form Infusions and Blast Type/Substance Infusions are homogenized. This makes sense to me since both Infusions and Destructive Blast-modifying talents have limits in their respective systems.)
- The Metakinesis features are removed from the list of class features, but they are re-added as options for Utility Wild Talents. In their original place, you gain your choice of either a Utility Wild Talent, Infusion, or a Magic Talent for the Sphere associated with your Elemental Focus at 7th and 13th level. (I am aware this puts you at a net negative in a vacuum, but bear in mind all the other benefits you're getting.)
- At 5th and 10th level, they may choose to replace the normal Infusion with an additional Elemental Focus. (This increases their elemental versatility and Sphere options if they choose to go that route, while not penalizing those who want a single Elemental Focus.)
- Elements chosen for Elemental Focus also grant the basic sphere package of an associated sphere and determine what spheres your magic talents can be chosen from. These are:
*Aether: either the Telekinesis and Warp Spheres
*Air: either the Nature (Air-related only, plus generic) and Weather Spheres
*Bone: Death Sphere
*Crystal: Nature (Earth-related only, plus generic)
*Dreams: either Illusion or Fallen Fey Spheres
*Earth: Nature (Earth or Metal-related only, plus generic)
*Fire: Nature (Fire-related only, plus generic)
*Light: Light Sphere
*Mind: Mind Sphere
*Time: Time Sphere
*Void: either the Dark or Warp Spheres
*Water: Nature (Water-related only, plus generic only)
*Viscera: either the Blood or Death Spheres
*Wood: Nature (Wood-related only, plus generic)
It's not quite as clean and elegant as I would want it, but that's what I was able to come up with in just a few days and the playtests weren't too weird. Kineticist was already underpowered, so a slight boost was called for. If you were looking at Legendary Kineticist, I'd probably axe an extra feature or two to bring it to rough parity, although I'm not 100% as to what I would choose; maybe Battle Burn since you can essentially use Burn and Spell Points interchangeably with my version.
@Namo: Keep in mind that we probably won't be using the naval combat rules from the Zeitgeist Expanded Player's Guide. While that still leaves a ton to read over, it does cut out one of the less useful and interesting sections.
I can certainly dig up my fixes for the Sage! I'll need a day or so to find it though, as it's buried somewhere in one of my Discord chats. I remember a few of the fixes off-hand: alterations to Chi-Gong (making the healing a standard action instead of a move action, for example, thus preventing an easy heal+sacrifice HP to deal massive damage combo that people often use it for; incorporating the errata that Vital Strike only multiplies the initial 1d6; etc.), fixes to Enhancer and Mental Escalation so that they do not completely crush the Enhancement Sphere (reduced max bonus and changed the level scaling, seeing as how an effectively permanent, untyped bonus over +6 to an ability by 9th level, RAW, is kind of absurd), Manipulator got a buff since it was kind of weak considering Esoteric Training options are BIG features, and Soul Stitching got a nerf (it's equivalent to 3+ talents invested in the Life Sphere as-is), to name a few.
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Switched Kardin from Gunslinger to Blacksmith. Quite happy, even though he lost 2 points of AC, 3 points of reflex saves, and grit/deeds. Made up for it with much more thematic abilities (and quite happy with 120ft ranged pistol, as well as really good sunder ability)
Maybe I missed it, but do companion creatures (animal companions, cohorts, familiars, phantoms, etc) get Automatic Bonus Progression?
Howdy, just dropping in to indicate my interest. I enjoy both gestalt and spheres.
@Fury of the Tempest: I'm not great at formatting or being super formal, so I'll just give you the changes.
Thank you very much! Though I do have 2 small things to say?
First, I understand the Logic behind Light Element = Light Sphere. But the Light Element has a lot of Illusionary abilities, so shouldn't it be Light Sphere and Illusion Sphere?
And secondly, are archetypes that interact with Metakinesis still allowed? There is a lot of Archetypes that switch out one Metakinesis, and losing access to them because of this Spheres Archetype, cool and enjoyable as it looks, is a bummer.
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Many thanks to Eriktd for showing me trade traditions and his advice on using them. Learned something new!
Also thank you to our GM for the generous ruling.
While Kardin’s combat stats have gone down somewhat, I’m so much more happy with the character with these changes, especially the out of combat parts. Amongst other things he has become quite good at stealth (including disguise) and handling traps.
Interesting take on kineticist. I'm not sure if I'd go with this or another way of getting the destruction talents in. But I'm glad that people have that flexibility.
@Gearmaster, any hints for ranger favored enemies? (I am guessing that favored terrain should start with Urban, and then probably water...)
From the interest thread:
If you want to know the favored terrains and enemies of the setting, let me run those by you as well. The top three most useful terrains are, in order: Urban, Forest, and Planar, with others being useful in more specific setpieces. As far as favored enemy types, I'd say that Humanoids (which I'm lumping together), Constructs, Evil Outsiders, Undead, and Fey are the most useful, roughly in that order.
I have some questions as I'm exploring some ideas:
1/ will you aim to get PCs with different Character Themes (in terms of the bonus feat / PrC and all the flavour you mentioned that comes later in the campaign)? Or is that not a criterion?
2/ may we use the utilitarian progression optional rule?
3/ How do you want to handle Tinker projects (e.g. mechanoids) in terms of cost?
Should we pay for them out of our starting gold, or are they free given that with time one can gather their components for free?
4/ Does Deft Maneuvers (Elephant in the Room feat) include the full effect of Improved Feint?
5/ If I were to use the Faction sphere, would I have to use the RHC as a faction, or could I use something else based on the PC background (e.g. the udnerground if he's a former criminal, the Engineering Institute - just made it up - if she's into Tinkering, etc...)
6/ The Ghost Stepper archetype is an odd duck in that it replaces the Rogue talents at levels 2-8-14, when most archetypes do 2-6-10-... or 4-8-12-...
If I go for it, could I have it replace the level 6 talent instead of level 8, for increased compatibility?
After significant reworks (and a heat wave giving me writer's block), I think I've finally settled on a workable take on this concept.
It does raise one question, though:
A Voidrusher Striker's Avatar Companion, via the Mirror of the Master ability, gains the effects of their master's magical items - would this also extend to Automatic Bonus Progression effects, too?
Yeah, especially if the setting is straddled between Commonplace and Everywhere, giving Gunsmithing makes a lot of sense. This isn't earth, so buying ammunition from just any place that sells weapon is probably not going to be viable for advanced firearm. I tend to like those in-between tech levels since they make for nice innovator characters. Alkenstar is on the verge of steampunk, and your take is on the verge of teslapunk, so a character who leans hard into proper steam power or electricity fits right in. Hence, flashlight. Granted, I'm flavoring them as bulky mid-to-late 1800s tech though. No fancy Numerian flashlights here :P
I think I'll go with Weapon Shot for the free talent I just gained with the Gunsmithing revelation. She'll be trying to disarm/remove snipers from play if at all possible. (Also gunning for fortification armor of course)
And as for the bonuses, Ana has two bonuses to her Knowledge (Engineering) from her classes, and both Craft (mechanical) and Craft (trap) ranks from her spheres.
This is supposed to say electricity, I was half asleep when I wrote this.
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@eriktd: Companions do not get ABP-lite in this game since my take on Zeitgeist is more in-line with the regular AP. They definitely don't need it as badly as, say, those in my Coliseum Morpheuon game will.
@Slyness: Both your interest and exceptional taste in rules have been noted!
@Fury of the Tempest: Fair point on the Light Element! I'd agree that Illusion or Light are both appropriate for associated spheres.
Arhcetypes that replace Metakinesis would replace the options that, in turn, replace it, as well as completely removing Metakinesis options from the Utility Wild Talent Pool. Does that sound fair?
@Kardin Shattershield: Not a problem!
@namo: I would definitely prefer a general mix of backgrounds/themes. I'm not completely against the idea of there being overlap, but it definitely isn't as appealing.
I'm down for people using the Utilitarian Progression optional rule if it speaks to them more than the standard progression. I would like those who use it to make a notation in their character sheet somewhere that they are using it.
Good question regarding Tinker Projects! Hmmm... let's meet somewhere in the middle and say they're half the normal GP cost as a result of both purchasing parts and carefully scavenging components. Having them be completely free can mess with WBL, but having them be full-price when you can technically scavenge for components also feels unfair to the players.
Could you clarify what you meant about Deft Maneuvers and Improved Feint? I'm fairly sure you're asking if they can both modify the Feint CM, but a few other potential interpretations I could read into it. Just wanting to be sure so I can answer what you're asking and not some other question entirely.
I'll work with people who want to use the Faction Sphere if they're not interested in tying it to the R.H.C., as there are plenty of factions in the game that aren't immediately apparent from the player's guide. I will note one thing though: under no circumstances can a PC currently be in the upper echelons of the R.H.C. at this point, although they may certainly be up-and-coming stars considered the darlings of the agency, former 'middle management' that fell from grace for whatever reason, etc.
I've actually never thought about Ghost Stepper being weird with the talent levels it replaces, oddly enough, but now that it has been pointed out to me, I'll admit that is weird. Yeah, I'd be willing to allow you to replace the 6th level talent instead of 8th.
@ChrisAsmadi: I'd rule yes to Mirror of the Master applying to the ABP-lite bonuses since those are intended to replace the natural Christmas Tree list of magic items that the ability could potentially synchronize with.
@Ana Brunas: I can relate to that all too well. I've made some major goofs when I've posted half-asleep. I've caught most of them within the edit window, but some have slipped through.
Oh now I'm tempted to make a gestalt-spheres version of one of my other characters...