Mummy's Mask

Game Master Whack-a-Rogue

The spear? Oh yes, that old thing. Doesn’t matter to me. Will it be used? Keep it. Will it not be used? Sell it. Totally fine with reaching a consensus on magical arms and armor before they get sold.

I just want to see Tribm talking it up with the dowager and her daughter. The dancer of Baast should be perfect for upsetting the former and captivating the latter.

So I would rather keep the spear, I was considering it as a secondary weapon and spending a couple spheres to use it. I would definitely use it as a range weapon at the beginning of combat, where I'm only getting a single attack anyway. But if the group decides by vote to sell it, I would be fine with that.

The spear isn't that great a weapon for Tribim, and it's very valuable. (It's the priciest thing we've found so far.) I get that we should save out and use valuable things that we find, but we have to sell some things or we don't have any treasure to buy the things we really want. Is it worth 3,000 gp for Tribim to keep it?

I'm more frustrated that you posted it for sale in game before we had a conversation about what was actually for sale...

I'm just posting to keep things moving, I don't think it's actually determined what will go to the auction just yet. Maybe the Pharasmin will tell us something interesting about the spear? But if you want to retcon Mahmoud bringing it up, I'm fine with that.

The spear isn't that great a weapon for Tribim, and it's very valuable.

Again, I did say it would be a back up weapon, and Tribim could invest a sphere to make it much more effective.

we have to sell some things or we don't have any treasure to buy the things we really want. Is it worth 3,000 gp for Tribim to keep it?

Interestingly, this isn't a strong goal for me, I rarely go into games with a magical check list for characters, it just feels really meta-gammy. I prefer to use what I find. Of course, if a character's backstory is built around perfection with one weapon or another they would try and enhance that as much as possible. But let's face it, our characters, especially ones without arcane knowledge or spell check, don't know as much about what magic items are out there as we the players do.

Anyway, I don't mind if Tribim doesn't keep the spear, but I like games where magical items are magical not something we buy and sell at the local magic mart.

Before we sell the spear, I'd again ask that we determine exactly how we are going to decide from here on out what gets sold and what doesn't. Will we vote on every item, because apparently saying 'yeah I can use that' isn't good enough.

YBD, exactly how available will 'for sale' magical items be? You had a list of magical items for sale earlier in the game. Are those the only items or will be able to find what we are looking for? Also, Does "Mad Dog" still have the Radiant Edge Shortsword? If so, would a diplomacy roll help convince him to trade it even up for the spear?

Since it seems like the time has come to divide the treasure, are we agreed that each of our characters should receive an equal share?

Since it seems like the time has come to divide the treasure, are we agreed that each of our characters should receive an equal share?

Short answer? No.

Most games I'm in characters keep what they wish, then sell and split the rest. If folks want the same item, you look at who has kept what and give the item to the least equipped. Then when the character's done with the item it goes back into the kitty. I've seen some groups just have the person 'keep' the item, so when it's sold the full profit is theirs, but I'd rather it return to the 'group kitty' so it eventually benefits everyone.

Our situation is strange here, partially due to YBD's system and partially the characters. For instance, full combat folks generally keep more in armor and weapons, but the only one of us that wears armor is Epperson. Also, with the ABP certain items won't be in the game.

With the bump in stats and next level Tribim's perception is pretty solid, so the spear is gravy. If he keeps it, he'll work the spear back into his repertoire, if he doesn't keep the spear he won't. I really don't care which we do, but I want to know how were going to function from now on.

Short answer? No.

Most games I'm in characters keep what they wish and split the rest. If folks want the same item, you look at who has kept what and give the item to the least equipped. Then when the character's done with the item it goes back into the kitty. I've seen some groups just have the person 'keep' the item, so when it's sold the full profit is theirs, but I'd rather it return to the 'group kitty' so it eventually benefits everyone.

(I added emphasis above.) If each character does not get an equal share, how do you propose we determine what share everyone gets?

I've been in many games where players just keep things that seem to 'fit' their characters, and in my experience, it creates a disparity where some characters have a lot of magic items to play with and others don't, and the way that this gets decided is kinda arbitrary. Usually by who stakes a claim for something and who doesn't argue.

I think of gold like experience. As we level up, I feel like we should all get the same amount, because it benefits every character the same. All of us have things we can buy to improve our characters' abilities, after all, so gold has the same value to everyone. I've been in several games where it's accepted that the value of everything will be divided equally, sometimes with an additional "party share" that everyone contributes to. When the time comes to sell stuff, if players want their characters to keep things, they "buy" it out of their share of the treasure. That's the only thing I've ever seen that (to me) felt fair to everyone. (Though the party share can also feel like it's being abused when players cannot agree on what items benefit everyone.)

Sometimes, players will agree to "fund" a character more to benefit the group, like buying a frontliner better armor or weapons early on. ("She can have my gold, because I can't effectively use it.") But I've never seen that equalized later-- it seems to me that whenever a player has staked a claim to something, it becomes theirs forever or is traded for something else, and when the remaining treasures are divided equally, that character just gets to keep the extra stuff, and the others get less. So I admit I'm sensitive to that possibility (though I'm not accusing Tribim or anyone else of doing that deliberately). If we want to do this, I think we should decide to do it as a group, but we should acknowledge that it is what we're doing.

... If we want to do this, I think we should decide to do it as a group, but we should acknowledge that it is what we're doing.

Oh, totally....As for how to split up items/wealth it obviously needs to be a group decision.

A couple of things, I admit my desire to 'play the hand I'm dealt,' (to keep and use magical items found in game) is not the way everyone plays and with the 'big six' is almost impossible. That's why I like the ABP it lets both styles of play use items they want instead of purchasing items they need to 'keep up.'

I've played in games where you try and keep things 'even' it's nearly impossible when you have magical items with high value. Both we, as a group of people playing a cooperative game, and the characters, a group of adventurers that realize everyone needs enough gear to fill their roll, should be able to work together to make a decision on how things are handled.

Edit:
Aerith Lithanel, Epperson, son of Epper (and possibly YBD) we are obviously going to need you to voice an opinion.

Epperson: Those selections for your Scholar feat are perfectly acceptable. They're both very fitting choices for your character. :-)
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I've been enjoying the current discussion about treasure distribution and whether or not to keep the spear of the watchful guardian. Thanks for keeping things professional and listening to each others' perspectives.

When it comes to treasure distribution among party members, I have no opinion. As the GM, it's my job to make interesting and useful items available, but it's ultimately up to you to decide what to do with them. Both Tribim and Mahmoud have made good points. While I mainly stick to the "official" treasure found in the AP, I typically modify things to either make them fit my system better or introduce players to various 3pp items that they may not necessarily be aware of. I also adjust weapons and armor on occasion to better fit player preference. The substitution of arrows for crossbow bolts earlier is one example, but I'd also hypothetically replace a flaming sickle with a flaming heavy flail for Epperson. That sort of thing is generally done "behind the scenes" on my end, so I really just mention it so you know that the loot you find is sometimes intentionally placed. :-)

Treasure distribution for this campaign is going to be somewhat tricky as some party members are more gear-dependent than others. Epperson's going to need armor and weapons, whereas Aerith can technically function at full power with absolutely nothing. This naturally leads to a bit of a "equality vs equity" discussion. Should each party member have the same amount of wealth (regardless of need) or should wealth be used to keep everyone at the same power level (regardless of proportionality or build optimization)? There's no right or wrong answer.
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Tribim asked about magic item availability, so I'll give a quick preview. :-)

Wati is a small city, so item availability is rather limited. There's no way to acquire a sun blade, for example, as it's far outside the city's base value of 5,280gp. That being said, there are plenty of items that are always going to be available - either for purchase or by commissioning something from a crafter. Pathfinder's a high-magic game, after all, so the hypothetical flaming sickle I mentioned earlier can be easily acquired. If you're ever wondering about a specific item, just ask. :-) As the campaign progresses, item availability will continue to change. The auction will have some very expensive items for sale, for instance, but on the other hand, a future portion of the campaign is a desert-based hexcrawl with zero markets.

For the moment, the list of minor trinkets Tribim linked a few posts ago is still available, and I'll add to it repeatedly throughout the campaign. Again, I like to introduce players to items they maybe haven't seen before. :-) As for the radiant edge shortsword, that's one of the items available for sale during the auction - and since it's an auction, simple trading isn't necessarily going to be effective. Depending on interest, items can potentially go for significantly more (or less) than "store price," so keep that in mind as you decide what to sell. Interacting with the right people beforehand (and some Influence rolls) can potentially start a bidding war. ;-)

I don't have a burning opinion on treasure divide. It'll become obvious if one person is getting a share of treasure more so than others, and to be frank, I think it provides for interesting role-playing opportunities. I like to keep it in the game.

Epperson will be SUPER interested in anything that has a curse flavour, especially with his new 4th level power (remove curse). Apart from that, he's happy to slowly and steadily build his capital until he can upgrade his armour.

Thanks for the tip, GM.

Oh that scene with Aerith was too much fun.

Indeed! Very enjoyable :)

So was anyone else going to try and 'upsell' any of our stuff?

Sorry. Travelling. I'll be home tonight.

Just trying to keep things moving along. It looks like you're selling the spear, the language tablet, and the collection of scrolls. Anything else?

Honestly I'm a little confused by the party loot list. I would think we were selling everything not being used or easy to use like wands and potions.

Epperson is using the flail (and I hope he continues to do so) and Mahmoud is using the scarab shield, is anyone else using anything?

If not shouldn't we sell it?

Yeah, I agree: if we can, we should also sell the mithral shirt, the masterwork weapons, the apprentice's cheating gloves, the ring of the grasping grave, and all the treasures. Barring, of course, that someone wants to keep any of those items and I forgot.

It's been quiet for a while, so here's what we're looking at. Based on what's been done in-game, here's what you're looking to earn if you auction off the listed items. :-)

apprentice's cheating gloves (880gp)
ring of the grasping grave (800gp)
spear of the watchful guardian (4,200gp)
tablet of languages lost (1,090gp)
Collection of Scrolls (1,050gp)
Mithril Chain Shirt (605gp)
MW Longbow/Quarterstaff/Scimitar (total of 396gp)
The other five items listed in the 'Treasure' section of the loot document (total of 90gp)
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Available For Purchase (cost to win)

First of all, thank you to our GM for the helpful list. And I always enjoy the descriptions of these items. Of them all, the sacrifical full plate seems to be the most useful. Plate armor by itself is 1650 gold, so for the cheap price of 735 gold, it gives 2d6 healing when you are at 0 HP. That's quite the bargain! Out of all of us, I think only Epperson can use it? I think that we should buy it for him.

Note that it doesn't heal anyone but instead deals force damage in an AoE. ;-)

Can epperson wear the plate armor? If so we should purchase it.

I agree we should get the plate armor for Epperson if he can wear it. These are really cool items, YBD! I don't think Mahmoud has any particular interest in any of them-- he'd not turn his nose up at them if we found them, but I'm not sure he'd spend his hard-earned adventuring gold on any of them. :)

Good points Mahmoud, I was liking the shortsword until I realized I couldn't use it for AOO's :(

If you want it we can buy it, but I didn't remember what it did before I went and looked it up. It's still pretty darn good, even without AoOs! I mean it's basically the Lunge feat, right? That's really good for a sneak attacker, since you can still feint or flank from ten feet away. :)

If there are other items you're interested in that aren't on the list, feel free to ask. :-) It's a big auction, and I try to only list items that you may not be familiar with. These were all Spheres items, but that doesn't mean that a flaming longsword or a ring of counterspells can't exist, for example.

The only thing Aerith might buy is an agile amulet. But that isn’t really needed and I don’t think we have the gold for it as of yet.

2d6 + 1 ⇒ (5, 6) + 1 = 12

If you want it we can buy it, but I didn't remember what it did before I went and looked it up. It's still pretty darn good, even without AoOs! I mean it's basically the Lunge feat, right? That's really good for a sneak attacker, since you can still feint or flank from ten feet away. :)

With the spheres and rogue talents tribim has he can move before and after the attack if he wants. So, the sword wouldn't really help. The other problem is I'd forget about it half the time.

Sandals of Polymorphous Alacrity (5,850gp):

Those are nice, not sure I'd spend the money on them, but would keep them if we found 'em.

Of course, tribim is a rogue, maybe we could earn a couple levels stealing some of this stuff.

Edit Just saw Aerith post in game, if she wants them I'm all for buying them.

Nah. Now, if she could fly as a dragon, and if she could use dex for hit and damage (making the form worth it) then yeah. But with Str8...no. Not worth dropping several thousand gold on them, even if IC she likes them alot. I appreciate the thought, though.

Options for Better Dragon Form
For flight, there are two easy options: the Improved Transformation feat. Grab Retain Ability (fly speed) for the granted trait, and you're good to go. Alternately, spend a talent on Telekinesis:flight. ;-)

DEX to hit is already a thing due to EitR rules. An agile amulet of mighty fists will cost 4,000gp - a decent option slightly later on. Of course, there's also your draconic breath weapon. ;-)

Right. Right…hmmm. Alright. Theory crafting this out.

Lvl 5 Feat: Unarmored Training

Lvl 6 Bonus Feat: Improved Transformation
- Talent: Lingering Transformation

Lvl 7 Feat: Hybrid Transformation
- Talent: Permanent Transformation (much earlier flight than lvl15)

Takes 2 feats and 2 talents. But when dungeon exploring, she could have 2x claws (class), bite (class), natural armor (dragon form), breath weapon (transformation), flight (transformation).

That sound right? This means she has a ranged option (telekinesis using intelligence), and straight melee options (natural attacks using dexterity). If I’m reading this right, it sounds like a great way to bring the character together.

Not quite, assuming you're wanting to rely on your Transformation feat instead of investing in the Alteration sphere.

Lvl 5 Feat: Improved Transformation
- This adds traits to your form equal to 1/5 level. Select the Retain Ability talent in place of a trait as per the feat text. This allows you to gain a dragon's flight - for balance, I'd rule it scales as per Avian Transformation. This gives you flight in dragon form, and you'll get to select additional traits at Lvl 10 and Lvl 15.

At this point, when dungeon exploring in dragon form, you'd have 2x claws, bite, natural armor, breath weapon, and flight. You'd be a quadruped but can still perform somatic components.

Permanent Transformation cannot be taken before Lvl 10 due to caster level prerequisites, but it isn't needed because the Transformation feat can be used at-will. Lingering Transformation isn't needed either for the same reason.
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I need to figure out exactly how Hybrid Transformation interacts with this, so I'll have to do some research and get back to you on that bit. In the meantime, wingless flight can be achieved at Lvl 6 with two Telekinesis talents (Powerful Telekinesis + Flight). There's also a 10th-lvl advanced talent to upgrade the duration to 1 hr/lvl.
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On an unrelated note, you're able to select Protokinesis Feats with your Sorcerer bonus feats. They're all pretty neat, but I'm particularly fond of Telekinetic Exoskeleton, which could be helpful in mitigating Aerith's frailty. :-)

Apologies for my silence.

Epperson would be fine with the sacrificial plate mail but he REALLY wants that shield of blessings and curses.

Of course he does.

"Come for the curses. Stay for the blessings."

"Come for the curses. Stay for the blessings."

LOL

We purchase the sacrificial full plate (2,385gp) and shield of blessings and curses (659gp). To keep our dwarf safe so we can hide behind him. I feel like that's it, is that it?

Aerith and YBD, sorry I read Options blah blah and Theory crafting blah blah and zoned out, if there's something in there I should read, let me know :)

Hilarious. Started the character with the plan of being teleportation and telekinesis. And now I'm leaning into transformation as well. :)

Ok, see now you just make me want to read it....

Thanks for answering all of my questions! It’s really on me for not understanding all of this before making the character. But there’s plenty here to think about in planning the build out. And we can always see how things play out at lvl 10 when picking abilities.

To be fair, you hadn't initially envisioned Aerith as a shapeshifting natural attacker. That's why your archetype grants Transformation as a bonus feat: it's potentially build-defining - but only if you put a fair bit of investment into it. Otherwise, it's just a nice bit of flavor. ;-)

Shapeshifting rules are complex, and I just know them because one of my RL players almost exclusively plays Shifters or Alteration Sphere-focused natural attack builds.

That’s all very true. I’m just loathe to have such a cool option not be used. I mean…turning into a dragon! That’s…well, it should be a major part of a character. I’m just glad that there is still time to make proper use of it.

Edit: I think I just figured out how to make this all come together without messing up her build.

Back to the campaign: it looks like you're buying the armor and shield. Anything else on anyone's wishlist, or should I move on?

Mahmoud would love a pair of gloves of dueling, but I don't think we can afford them yet. So I'm cool with not buying anything. :)

Good to go!

I'm happy to chip in for mahmouds gloves if we can find them.

Wati's purchase limit is higher than normal due to the auction, but the gloves are still too expensive. :-(

No worries! :)

What about a sash of the war champion? (I assume it would treat his Courage conditioning as bravery?) He doesn't benefit much from armor training, but a bonus vs fear is always welcome. Honestly, though, he really doesn't need anything. :)

2d6 + 1 ⇒ (5, 3) + 1 = 9
There's one available, but it's rather popular. It'll cost the full 4,000gp to win it.