Character ready to rock mechanically - Background left to complete. Just point the way...
What year in GH? I'll dig through the lore to find an army or band to have served with and any skirmishes or conflict I was involved in. Starting at age 40, and figure 10 or so years as a skirmisher/slinger.
Also this might be useful... It is NOT G&G but for equipment etc? Its a valuable online source (2nd Ed wiki).
Again for G&G is not directly 2E but it pulls heavily from 2e rules so this may be a quick online reference for those not wanting to use the PDF for some stuff (again, equipment etc)
One final note, I could not be arsed calculating every item of clothing in the G&G equipment list. I just called it 5gp.
Good! Thank you all for the updates, and for keeping us moving along.
What are you finding of the Character Creation process so far (and of using For Gold & Glory, if you are using it)? Of course these are not 1e characters, so they get a bit more complex, but not that much, right?
I agree this is not much more complex and I really like how they did the non-combat skills.
Character ready to rock mechanically - Background left to complete. Just point the way...
What year in GH? I'll dig through the lore to find an army or band to have served with and any skirmishes or conflict I was involved in. Starting at age 40, and figure 10 or so years as a skirmisher/slinger.
We'll say 576 CY.
Also this might be useful... It is NOT G&G but for equipment etc? Its a valuable online source (2nd Ed wiki).
Again for G&G is not directly 2E but it pulls heavily from 2e rules so this may be a quick online reference for those not wanting to use the PDF for some stuff (again, equipment etc)
Thx for the link Helaman. Boy have I got a nice one for you also - here ;)
One final note, I could not be arsed calculating every item of clothing in the G&G equipment list. I just called it 5gp.
Fair enough!
Edit: Given that literacy seems a part of this army, I'll swap out gaming for Read/Write Common.
I was pondering allowing Literacy as the default, but you have made me see the error of my ways. I like your idea better ;)
Rule: One non combat skill point is required to read/write Common.
Another Rule: We will not be using 'Alignment Languages'
I agree this is not much more complex and I really like how they did the non-combat skills.Good! Thank you all for the updates, and for keeping us moving along.
What are you finding of the Character Creation process so far (and of using For Gold & Glory, if you are using it)? Of course these are not 1e characters, so they get a bit more complex, but not that much, right?
Good to hear!
Apart from tracking. I know rangers should have a niche but they get it free and with advanced bonus potential... everyone else pays 2 slots AND eats a penalty. It's a bitter pill.
I am hoping that -6 remains relevant. We shall see.
Gran March pdf research doc..
This doc is crazy! :O
ok...money time, then I can buy some much-needed equipment!!
Money: x10= 150gp
Can we spend additional skill points beyond basic proficiency to get Advanced or Master proficiency in non-combat skills at level 1?That is a nope Vaneirin - I want to stick to the level 1 feel for the characters.
Even in the future, I am thinking Advanced or Mastery might require a 'trainer/mentor' of some sort. We'll see how things develop.
Understood. I was just noticing that they existed - Vaneirin has already chosen his skills!
I’m not a fan of certain non-combat skills being gated by class. My fighter can’t be acrobatic, nor can he have a knowledge of ancient history. Seems pointlessly narrow, and keeps concepts way too limited.
Understood. I was just noticing that they existed - Vaneirin has already chosen his skills!Can we spend additional skill points beyond basic proficiency to get Advanced or Master proficiency in non-combat skills at level 1?That is a nope Vaneirin - I want to stick to the level 1 feel for the characters.
Even in the future, I am thinking Advanced or Mastery might require a 'trainer/mentor' of some sort. We'll see how things develop.
Except now I have to redo them if I want Vaneirin to read and wrote the language he speaks. I guess that is fair enough and makes verisimilitudinous sense…
I think all I have left is purchasing stuff.
What does the -1 value mean in this:
Animal Handling (General, Wisdom, −1, 2 skill points)?
And how do you arrive at a number for each of your thief's skills Helaman?
I don't think I grok the skills section very well/
Can you use sheaf arrows on a shortbow? "Flight" arrows do 1d6, "sheaf" do 1d8. Seems pretty suss to use 1d8 arrows on a shortbow... I mean the only real "balancer" is that Sheaf are 6 for 3sp, and Flight are 12 for 3sp.
There's likely to be a delay of a day or so from me. A friend of mine who's been battling cancer for some time passed away today. Not a complete surprise, but still upsetting, obviously.
What does the -1 value mean in this:
Animal Handling (General, Wisdom, −1, 2 skill points)?
And how do you arrive at a number for each of your thief's skills Helaman?
I don't think I grok the skills section very well/
-1 Intelligence is 8 for me. I am 9 Int. 9 - 1 = 8
2 skill points is a double cost skill. Burns 2 of your skill points, not one.
Thief skills?
Go to the thief section... add Base, to race, to Dex bonuses to thief skills. I then get 60 percentage points to break down how I want into each of the skills.
Add all together and you get your finals.
So Animal handling for someone with 16 Wisdom would be 15 or below to succeed?
Yep, the 2 points thing I got already.
No, not thief skills, I hadn’t even bothered to look at them! I meant these, your thief’s skills. ;) :
Acrobatics 17
Appraisal 9
Knowledge: Military 9
Survival 10
Swimming 11
These are all based on your ability/stat, with a value that appears in parentheses after each skill title?
If so, those values provided for each skill seem awfully… arbitrary
There's likely to be a delay of a day or so from me. A friend of mine who's been battling cancer for some time passed away today. Not a complete surprise, but still upsetting, obviously.
Sorry to hear that. I had my really only close friend, more of a crazed mentor, pass away from emphysema a few years back. It wasn’t a surprise (given his hard life, drugs, pain medication for chronic workplace injury and lifetime smoker) and was a long time coming. I’m still coming to terms with it in some ways, however small or large. Take care and again, I’m sorry for your loss.
I think you are misunderstanding me. I’m not looking at your character critically at all. That isn’t interesting to me or my intent! It’s just happened to be the one I was looking at!
What I mean is that the value in the rules is arbitrary. Why is Animal Handling your Wisdom attribute -1. Why isn’t it just your Wisdom score? The values, in the parentheses after each skill name, in the the rules seem arbitrary and like pointless complication is all. ;)
I’m not a fan of certain non-combat skills being gated by class. My fighter can’t be acrobatic, nor can he have a knowledge of ancient history. Seems pointlessly narrow, and keeps concepts way too limited.
Not a huge fan of it also - note made for possible changes in the future.
Can you use sheaf arrows on a shortbow? "Flight" arrows do 1d6, "sheaf" do 1d8. Seems pretty suss to use 1d8 arrows on a shortbow... I mean the only real "balancer" is that Sheaf are 6 for 3sp, and Flight are 12 for 3sp.
We will go with Flight arrows only for shortbows. They can also be used with stone arrows, but I don't want to open that can of worms just yet.
There's likely to be a delay of a day or so from me. A friend of mine who's been battling cancer for some time passed away today. Not a complete surprise, but still upsetting, obviously.
Very sorry to hear that Flanderdash. My condolences to you, and the family.
Flanderdash, you have my condolences too.
There's likely to be a delay of a day or so from me. A friend of mine who's been battling cancer for some time passed away today. Not a complete surprise, but still upsetting, obviously.
My condolences Flanderdash.
I’m posting this in all my games. We are expecting a major snow storm tomorrow. While I don’t expect to lose power or internet service it is always a possibility. If I don’t post tomorrow apologies in advance.
I think you are misunderstanding me. I’m not looking at your character critically at all. That isn’t interesting to me or my intent! It’s just happened to be the one I was looking at!
What I mean is that the value in the rules is arbitrary. Why is Animal Handling your Wisdom attribute -1. Why isn’t it just your Wisdom score? The values, in the parentheses after each skill name, in the the rules seem arbitrary and like pointless complication is all. ;)
Ahhh, got ya. For the record I wasnt taking your questions amiss. I know you like to drill down on things.
As for why the rules are as they are? Its based on 2e... they were still figuring things out. The -1 etc rules are strange but no more so than some other rules.
Amen to that! And you make a good point. I guess some are arbitrary but fairly innocuous. Others just leap out at me as unnecessary. But given a wide enough lens, you could as you say, find a bunch more like that! I think what is really going on for me is that the rules are a great update to ADnD 2e, and the presentation is great…98% of the time. I just can’t always find a design reason for why some things are done.
Then again, I find PF2e’s Core rules a nightmare to navigate, and this after they explicitly edited and designed the layout to be easy to use. For example, where in the PF2e CRB does it explicitly state that monsters have three actions like the player characters do? I’ve looked in the CRB, I’ve looked in the Bestiary. I know they do get three actions, but where does it say that? Endlessly frustrating.
I’m not a fan of certain non-combat skills being gated by class. My fighter can’t be acrobatic, nor can he have a knowledge of ancient history. Seems pointlessly narrow, and keeps concepts way too limited.Not a huge fan of it also - note made for possible changes in the future.
Can you use sheaf arrows on a shortbow? "Flight" arrows do 1d6, "sheaf" do 1d8. Seems pretty suss to use 1d8 arrows on a shortbow... I mean the only real "balancer" is that Sheaf are 6 for 3sp, and Flight are 12 for 3sp.We will go with Flight arrows only for shortbows. They can also be used with stone arrows, but I don't want to open that can of worms just yet.
Just noticed that the type of arrow usable by bow is indicated by the range possible on the missile weapon table - composite short and shortbow are flight only. Makes sense.
Okay, I think Vaneirin is complete. And possibly overloaded with gear.
Get well soon Daniel…no rush necessary for PbP…
Best wishes Daniel. Take time to recover, and no need to rush!
Okay, I think Vaneirin is complete. And possibly overloaded with gear.
Please remember to calculate total weight - nothing as Old School as Encumbrance! ;)
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ok...just checking...
NWP= 4+1 per 3 levels plus 2 from 11 INT plus FREE trade/Knowledge skill
CSP= 4+1 per 3 levels
If so, then I will take:
NWP - Religion (WIS +0, FREE.), Read/Write Common(????), Etiquette (General, Charisma, +0, 1 skill point), Healing (Priest, Wisdom, -2, 2 skill points), Blacksmith (General, Strength, +0, 1 skill point), Herbalism (Priest/Rogue/Wizard, Intelligence, -2, 2 skill points)
CSP - Weapon-Shield Method (1 CSP), Weapon Group-Axe (2 CSP), Weapon-Warhammer (1 CSP)
If you are playing a Fighter I don’t think you need Weapon Group-Axe as fighters are proficient with all weapons. At least that is the way I read the rules. It seemed ridiculous to me to give Fighters not very many more CSP’s than other classes and then have them need to spend their CSP’s on weapon proficiencies.
Do we each get 1 free trade/knowledge skill?
If you are playing a Fighter I don’t think you need Weapon Group-Axe as fighters are proficient with all weapons. At least that is the way I read the rules. It seemed ridiculous to me to give Fighters not very many more CSP’s than other classes and then have them need to spend their CSP’s on weapon proficiencies.
Except it says this:
By exchanging 2 CSPs to become skilled with a weaponry group, a character becomes skilled in all weapons within that group that are allowed to his class.
Ehrmagherd. So I am allowed to use all weapons as a Fighter, but still need to spend 2 CSP’s to be proficient with some of them. This makes fighters even more crap than they already are.
Do we each get 1 free trade/knowledge skill?
Correct!
ok...just checking...
NWP= 4+1 per 3 levels plus 2 from 11 INT plus FREE trade/Knowledge skill
CSP= 4+1 per 3 levels
Correct!
By exchanging 2 CSPs to become skilled with a weaponry group, a character becomes skilled in all weapons within that group that are allowed to his class.Ehrmagherd. So I am allowed to use all weapons as a Fighter, but still need to spend 2 CSP’s to be proficient with some of them. This makes fighters even more crap than they already are.
We are still in time to go back to Swords & Wizardry if you prefer, but I think you will find your Fighter way less interesting ;)
We are still in time to go back to Swords & Wizardry if you prefer, but I think you will find your Fighter way less interesting ;)By exchanging 2 CSPs to become skilled with a weaponry group, a character becomes skilled in all weapons within that group that are allowed to his class.Ehrmagherd. So I am allowed to use all weapons as a Fighter, but still need to spend 2 CSP’s to be proficient with some of them. This makes fighters even more crap than they already are.
I think there’s a good argument for saying otherwise. At the very least in S+W my 14 Str, 13 Dex and 13 Con actually provide a bonus where here they literally do nothing in combat.
And as for my fighter being more interesting in terms of skills, I’m not sure about that because the OSR habit of having you make some kind of check, likely based on your ability score for literally everything is pretty much the same as this system, where skills are based on your ability score. Yet here, some things you possibly aren’t allowed to attempt (as I pointed out some skills are gated by class) or if you are allowed it is at a penalty/untrained.
In the same way that modern games are criticised for “having a rule for everything” that ends up gatekeeping activities (and as circumvented somewhat in PF1 by Elephant in the Room concepts so you don’t need a feat to keep breathing just because someone invented the awesome breathing feat) I would argue that For Gold and Glory isn’t that much more interesting, just more rules-heavy than S+W.
Do we each get 1 free trade/knowledge skill?Correct!
Ok, will add one skill.
Ok, here’s another weird one:
Weapon-Shield Method: Preferred by many priests and war- rior types and colloquially referred to as “mace and board”, “sword and board”, etc., this method involves fighting with a shield in one hand and a weapon in the other. When used defensively, this method provides a −1 bonus to the character’s AC.
Alternatively, this method can be used offensively. Character’s skilled in the weapon-shield method can perform a shield bash (See below). The shield bash can take the place of a standard attack or be used as a secondary weapon, including all penalties and bonuses that apply to using the non-dominant hand,….
I initially took this, and Shield Bash before I rudely discovered my fighter needs to be trained in weapons he’s allowed to use if he wants to employ them in combat.
But I don’t get this bit:
“ When used defensively, this method provides a −1 bonus to the character’s AC.”
Does this mean
A: a shield regularly provides at least a -1 to AC depending on size, and this combat skill adds another -1
B: : a shield regularly provides at least a -1 to AC depending on size, and this combat skill adds another -1 if you tacitly fight defensively
C: nothing, it is just stating that shields are helpful and the Combat Skill is useless.
And if B, how does one fight defensively - do you take a penalty to attacks? Sorry if fighting defensively is detailed elsewhere in the rules.
Also, the bit about being able to make a shield bash is annoying, because you can only do that if you….drumroll please….take the Shield Bash combat skill. Which I did. To better emulate the style the “Weapon and Shield” Combat skill mentions but doesn’t actually provide. And I was also gearing up to spend one of these very valuable CSP’s to get Ambidexterity at 3rd level just so I could actually use the axe and shield offensively without the penalties for two weapon fighting.
But because I need to spend two points on learning how to swing my allowed axe, I can’t take Weapon and Shield or Shield Bash. Which…isn’t very interesting. And maybe there is an argument for
“Hey grumpy OSW, no-one is forcing you to keep your Int at 17 - you could have switched your Str and Int and had Str 17 and Int 14, and therefore at least be more effective/interesting in combat.”
But my rejoinder would be:
“Sure, but in S+W, my fighter would be at least effective in combat, and interesting outside of combat.”
Eh, quibbles on quibbles. Let’s forget about it and just roll some dice. With penalties. ;)
You know what OSW. You may be right. Maybe I haven’t thought this game through as I should.
Apologies to all in advance but I will put things on hold for now, while I mull over if this was actually a good idea or not in this format.
You know what OSW. You may be right. Maybe I haven’t thought this game through as I should.
Apologies to all in advance but I will put things on hold for now, while I mull over if this was actually a good idea or not in this format.
No, I think each game has it’s flaws. I know I may regret this one day but here goes: maybe the rules don’t actually really matter when it is the roleplaying that all of us in this thread really like.
Ouch. That hurt more than you know.
Sure, the combat-narrative imperfections might suck - like, is it a good thing that people can’t express good two weapon fighting (just one example among many) in OSR? I don’t think it is, but hey, that is the system. Unless you want to tweak it. Personally, I don’t so my preferred at this stage is PF1 and hopefully when I read it properly, PF2.
But I’m very happy to play FG@G with you guys here! Just, you know, making observations. ;)
Apologies to all in advance but I will put things on hold for now, while I mull over if this was actually a good idea or not in this format.
Sorry to hear that. Let us know what you decide.