Hello all, Discussion Thread is now open. One thing to note, I will generally roll things like Initiative, Saves or other Reactive rolls in order to keep things moving quickly. Please make sure your numbers on your sheet are correct as I take these from there. For key things I will often pause to give people a chance to use a reroll if you have one.
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Excited to play this one with all of you!
I have adventured extensively with Korin, Quenly and Yanndu’s players, and look forward to earning a similar level of trust and fun with Lichaam’s player.
Mechanically, Eadie is a straight-forward vanilla falchion fighter. She can hit pretty hard, but doesn’t do ridiculous damage.
I have played a melee paladin (scimitar + board tank) at level 12-16, so at least I have some experience on the frontline at Seeker levels.
Eadie is not as tanky as my paladin, but probably deals slightly more damage.
I believe strongly in teamwork, and look forward to trying to keep the bad guys off the casters, so y’all can do your thing!
Gameplay is open for introductions.
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Five players with plenty of casters, huh? Well, guess we'll see how this goes!
GM:
Lichaam is very knowledge-heavy, and his 0th action in any combat will be to try identifying everything. Additionally, he tends to use his wand of Heightened Awareness before moving into a probably-dangerous situation. If combat breaks out, he will discharge Heightened Awareness for +4 initiative (bringing his total to +9), and he can always act in the surprise round (if it exists).
Players:
Lichaam has quite a lot of spell options, so I'd like to coordinate spell preps with everyone else. I don't have a whole lot of overlap with Yanndu's known spells, aside from possibly communal resist. The most overlap I have with Quenly is Haste vs. Blessing of Fervor. Don't yet know what Korin uses, but presumably will mostly be personal or buffs.
With no Helgar, we're lacking in AoE and direct damage, so might shift that way a bit.
Does anyone have specific spell requests (not Enchantment or Necromancy)?
Korin:
Lichaam's full spellbook list is over here, if you want to copy anything. You're looking for the items with 'A' (for Alchemist) in the "Classes" column. The ones in "Tra1", "Evo3", "Nec6", or similar are in his library back at the Grand Lodge. The rest are currently with him (since we probably won't have time for you to peruse the library before we leave, those would be for copying after the mission.)
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Mechanically, Eadie is a straight-forward vanilla falchion fighter. She can hit pretty hard, but doesn’t do ridiculous damage.
Lichaam holds up his rather nice (and gently-used) cold iron dagger. "I once tried to coup de grace someone and failed. Twice. I trust that your damage output with sharp sticks is higher than mine."
Additionally, he tends to use his wand of Heightened Awareness before moving into a probably-dangerous situation. If combat breaks out, he will discharge Heightened Awareness for +4 initiative (bringing his total to +9), and he can always act in the surprise round (if it exists).
That's fine. You can assume the entire area you are going to is dangerous. How many times are you prepared to activate the 10 minute wand?
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Additionally, he tends to use his wand of Heightened Awareness before moving into a probably-dangerous situation. If combat breaks out, he will discharge Heightened Awareness for +4 initiative (bringing his total to +9), and he can always act in the surprise round (if it exists).That's fine. You can assume the entire area you are going to is dangerous. How many times are you prepared to activate the 10 minute wand?
Depends on what we know about where we're going. Realistically? Probably only a half-dozen times, plus possibly some uses for Knowledge checks. I'll specifically say when I'm using the wand; that was just a note that he tends to have the buff up when combat starts.
If it's just something like a huge forest or something, or if we get stuck in a maze of indefinite size (like the note implies exists), then he would only activate the wand in that area if scouting revealed someone up ahead.
If there's a specific place (dungeon, building, cave complex, whatever):
1) Possibly start with a prepared HA (lasts over two hours), cast before we get near. Possibly not; again, depends on what we find out and what we're doing.
2) Wand cast if scouting reveals someone up ahead
3) Wand cast after combat immediately before we move on. PFS scenarios tend to put everything relatively close together, so this cast often lasts until the next encounter. If it doesn't, oh well.
I have an alias for Quenly's conjured dragon, but will typically only use the alias for the purpose of the dragon's actions in combat. And it will mainly try to avoid combat, having only 3hp. Its purpose is to serve as a telepathic translator/interpreter, and locate things with Blindsense.
It does have a 1/day breath weapon, but only rarely uses it.
When the dragon is available I'll post Quenly's speech as telepathy
Which I represent like this
- a fairly standard approach I think.
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For spell requests - Quenly likes to share in Heroism by using his Channel the Gift spell. This is also good for things like Barkskin and Greater Magic Fang, though I don't know if anyone has those. Channel the Gift won't work on extracts or infusions - or at least, I don't think it will. Sometimes an extract is treated as a spell and sometimes it isn't ;)
Quenly often opens combat with Blessing of Fervour - it depends on the initiative order. Quenly quite often goes first. If Lichaam beats Quenly's intiative and has a Haste to spend, by all means do that.
Should we need more melee, Quenly can contribute but needs a turn to prep with Many Forms (often paired with Quickened Divine Favour and animating his shield). But most typically Quenly spends his actions casting.
I was going to suggest a Find the Path scroll (still might get one, Quenly can reuse it with his Vestment or Lichaam could UMD it), though the token we've been given seems to render it superfluous.
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For spell requests - Quenly likes to share in Heroism by using his Channel the Gift spell.
Unfortunately, Heroism is of the Enchantment school, one of Lichaam's opposition schools. He could prep it, but at double the slots. Probably not worth it.
If you got a scroll of Heroism (375gp) he would gladly use it on you (and it would last an extra 10 minutes), but I don't think that's something he'll be prepping.
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The beauty of Channel the Gift is that you never expend your slot(s) - Quenly uses his.
But still, there's the opportunity cost involved. You may well have more useful things to prep.
I might stretch for the Heroism scroll - I'll see what else we might want before we depart.
Speaking of supplies, may I suggest that everyone brings some amount of diamond dust? This is to cover Restoration spells. Quenly knows Restoration, but it's 100gp of diamond dust to clear temporary negative levels and 1000gp worth for permanent ones. Quenly is currently carrying 750gp worth of diamond dust, which I'll happily expend whenever it's needed, but it never hurts to have more just in case :)
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The beauty of Channel the Gift is that you never expend your slot(s) - Quenly uses his.
But still, there's the opportunity cost involved. You may well have more useful things to prep.
Yeah, still have to prep it, and it's the preparation that takes two slots. So essentially I'd be preparing it twice and you'd lose a 3rd-level cast. Not terrible, but not great.
Speaking of supplies, may I suggest that everyone brings some amount of diamond dust? This is to cover Restoration spells. Quenly knows Restoration, but it's 100gp of diamond dust to clear temporary negative levels and 1000gp worth for permanent ones. Quenly is currently carrying 750gp worth of diamond dust, which I'll happily expend whenever it's needed, but it never hurts to have more just in case :)
Lichaam has 300gp of diamond dust, for just that reason. And a scroll of stats-only Restoration.
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Paizo, why you do this? I tried looking up whether Phantom Steed/Chariot can hustle or run. There's a fairly sizable thread that was repeatedly marked as an FAQ candidate. Response: no response needed.
I think it might be a "real" creature, rather than pure spell, and so able to keep up a double-move for extended periods of time at the normal penalties, but also limited to 8h. At CL13, the spell would have 20 hp. During hustling, takes 0+1+2+4+8=15 damage for 5 hours of hustling, and still has 3 hours of not-hustle. So... 13 hours worth of movement per cast, which is what I was figuring on before anyway. I don't know what the spell's Fortitude save equivalent would be for attempting a forced march, and failing that would have a 1/3 chance of dropping unconscious from nonlethal damage (if that's even a thing.)
As for Teleportation, I've always got the question of "if a creature is in a bag of holding, does it count against the spell's target limit?" Because that might be worth looking at if Korin has a familiar. Just stuff it in a bag, Greater Teleport there, and hang out in town until the token is finished attuning.
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Yay! Quenly knows unbreakable heart.
Lichaam, are you preparing liberating command and/or shield?
Eadie is levelled and pretty much ready to go.
Items she are carrying to contribute to Team Efficacy:
• Diamond dust (1000 gp)
• Scroll of breath of life
• Scroll of invisibility purge
• Scroll of life bubble CL 7
• 2 scrolls of freedom of movement CL 7
• Scroll of lesser restoration (3)
• Scroll of shield (2)
• globe of moonlight
• Oil of daylight
• 3 potions of enlarge person
• 3 oils of bless weapon
Still have around 2000gp kicking around, if someone needs a scroll or other one-shot item.
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Lichaam, are you preparing liberating command and/or shield?
I wasn't really planning on it, unless we learn that there are grabby types where we're going. Lichaam has a wand of Shield that he's been working on since level 5 (it'll never get drained, and it's impossible to get Lichaam's AC to the point where it matters)
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I wasn't really planning on it (liberating command), unless we learn that there are grabby types where we're going.
That's cool. I plan on making effective use of freedom of movement to avoid being grabbed. Getting swallowed whole sux!
Lichaam has a wand of Shield ... (it'll never get drained)
Challenge accepted!
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I wasn't really planning on it (liberating command), unless we learn that there are grabby types where we're going.That's cool. I plan on making effective use of freedom of movement to avoid being grabbed. Getting swallowed whole sux!
(looks at Ring of Freedom of Movement, then at his "The Risen" title)
You don't say.
Lichaam has a wand of Shield ... (it'll never get drained)Challenge accepted!
I'm scared to ask how you're planning to take on that challenge. It's a Personal spell, so unless you have UMD or a secret in your class list...
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I have a vibrant purple prism ioun stone which currently holds shield.
After I use the spell and we have left combat, I capture the stone and ask a friendly mage to add it to their orbit, ✨cast shield on the stone (usually from my scroll), re-capture it, and pass it back to me.
That'll work.
So yeah, if you ever need a 1-minute charge of Shield, just ask. I can also make those scrolls of yours happen at CL2 if you prefer.
Examining the labyrinth token it has some magic attached to it. It appears to be a unique item, designed to allow a person to navigate magically created labyrinths with lesser risk of becoming lost.No real idea of how long the attunement process takes, then?
It would be really helpful if the scenario told me, I am going to say it takes a day or so. You need to decide who will attune to it.
Gurda Inronboot is a former pathfinder, a dwarven ranger who specialises in guiding parties through the mountains.
Is Gurda Ironboot here at the grand lodge, or is he in Larrad? I wasn't quite clear on that.
She is in Larrad.
Carry companion would be fine. Bag of Holding would not.
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If there's no room for Quenly's dragon in a teleport, he'll just make a new one at the other end. He'll have to dismiss the first one, can't have more than one in existence at the same time.
ETA: I'm getting undead vibes from the mission description - the ossuary, the runeplates, the god of the dead... How are we fixed for Death Ward?
Still tempted by Find the Path. The rune token only "assists" in navigating a labyrinth.
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There is also the deathless property that can be added to any armor for a +1 cost.
Not 'cheat code' good, but not bad for the price.
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It would be really helpful if the scenario told me, I am going to say it takes a day or so. You need to decide who will attune to it.
Sorry guys, I know nothing about "attunement" rules.
Does the attunement have to happen with a spellcaster, or would someone with a high survival (to avoid gettiing lost) be better?
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Korin:
Lichaam's full spellbook list is over here, if you want to copy anything. You're looking for the items with 'A' (for Alchemist) in the "Classes" column. The ones in "Tra1", "Evo3", "Nec6", or similar are in his library back at the Grand Lodge. The rest are currently with him (since we probably won't have time for you to peruse the library before we leave, those would be for copying after the mission.)
Thank you very much, Korin will be copying spells from master Lichaam after the mission is over.
Like most investigator, Korin is capable when he got his 10 mins/level buff going , and is a monster when he got his min/level buff on .
His familiar Quidditch usually UMD Phase Step or Dimension Door scroll on him to move him to full attack position. Quidditch also will cast Shield Other on Korin via wand to take half of the damage that Korin takes. He also employ many alchemical items to aid him in combat as well as ward against nasty stuff. The nature of alchemy and the limited amount of extract he can prepare in one day means that he won't have as much staying power as Eadie, and need to be conservative about his resource.
Since Korin just picked up Infusion talent, he can spare a few Lv1 extract to his teammates that can't UMD.
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The limited amount of extract he can prepare in one day means that he won't have as much staying power as Eadie, and need to be conservative about his resource.
Yes, I was thinking this might be the case, Korin.
In the AP campaign I played (levels 1-16) my paladin's partner on the frontline was a tricked-out bloodrager reach build.
My paladin played the "tank" to the bloodrager's ridiculous melee damage.
I was thinking this might be a similar set-up, with Eadie playing "light/medium tank" and Korin being the "damager."
Thoughts?
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The limited amount of extract he can prepare in one day means that he won't have as much staying power as Eadie, and need to be conservative about his resource.Yes, I was thinking this might be the case, Korin.
In the AP campaign I played (levels 1-16) my paladin's partner on the frontline was a tricked-out bloodrager reach build.
My paladin played the "tank" to the bloodrager's ridiculous melee damage.
I was thinking this might be a similar set-up, with Eadie playing "light/medium tank" and Korin being the "damager."
Thoughts?
That could work. With Shield Other, Korin effectively have 200+ HP, but it can also be cast on Eadie to double your effective HP to 300+. Korin can provide Eadie with Ablative Barrier and Barkskin+4 infusion extract.
Even though Korin have max rank in Disable Device, as a Strenght focused investigator his bonus on Disable Device is not very high, so it would be better to find alternative way to bypass or safely trigger the trap.
If Thurl is there, demon presence is a given. Martials need to figure out how to overcome DR/good. Korin usually brute force his way through DR, but can get his numerous natural attacks good aligned. There will probably be spell resistance as well.
I would recommend we use Commune to rule out potential enemy. We could ask whether there're enemy with energy drain, flying enemy, incorporeal enemy, etc.
Since we have travel time, Wizard might be able to cast Mass Minor Reversion for emergency healing for the whole team.
Korin can and will craft alchemical item/remedies for the whole team for cheap, since alchemy user get crafting discount. Stuff like Alchemical Grease , Blood-boiling Pill , Mellowroot , Soul Stimulant , and the classics (Antiplague, Antitoxin, Meditation Tea, Essence of Independence, Stillgut)
It would be really helpful if the scenario told me, I am going to say it takes a day or so. You need to decide who will attune to it.Sorry guys, I know nothing about "attunement" rules.
Does the attunement have to happen with a spellcaster, or would someone with a high survival (to avoid gettiing lost) be better?
There are no rules for this, it is unique to the scenario. Basically, someone needs to carry the thing is all.
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Thank-you, GM. Who wants to attune to the labyrinth token, peeps? Eadie has a +16 Survival (not including the +2 from her wayfinder to avoid getting lost) But I don’t know if Survival is relevant or not.
I suppose there could be drawbacks to holding the labyrinth token, so maybe someone with a good Will save should also be considered?
With Shield Other, Korin effectively have 200+ HP, but it can also be cast on Eadie to double your effective HP to 300+. Korin can provide Eadie with Ablative Barrier and Barkskin+4 infusion extract.
This all sounds wonderful, but I defer to your superior knowledge on which strategy is best here, Korin.
I have a backup cold iron falchion and three oils of bless weapon to deal with demons.
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With Shield Other, Korin effectively have 200+ HP, but it can also be cast on Eadie to double your effective HP to 300+. Korin can provide Eadie with Ablative Barrier and Barkskin+4 infusion extract.This all sounds wonderful, but I defer to your superior knowledge on which strategy is best here, Korin.
Korin WILL do all these protective measures, and they works well together. If we're tanky enough just with our stat, then we can use our action to eliminate the threat
Death Ward's duration is too short for my taste. If it only last a room or two, then we might end up spending action to cast it in combat.
Against DR/good, a wand of Bless Weapon works quite well. It's a lv1 paladin spell so a wand of it is only 750gp or 2pp. Oil of Bless Weapon is 50gp. 1CL last for 1 min.
Against incorporeal, one can use Paragon Surge or Tactical Adaptaion (magus only spell) to get Ghostslayer feat, and if your weapon is +2 then it count as Ghost Touch. The Shaman spell Spirit-Bound Bladeworks better may be more expensive.
Korin will craft 2 adventure day and 2 dungeon worth of alchemical supply for the group. I will have the compiled list of item later today.
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What's everyone's thoughts on the Burn Corruption spell for this one?
It's the kind of spell I want to like, but 5th-level for a fireball with an overly-large AoE is a little tough to swallow. Then again, we don't have a lot of AoE aside from Quenly's Shadow Evocation, so maybe it's worth it?
Death Ward's duration is too short for my taste. If it only last a room or two, then we might end up spending action to cast it in combat.
That's usually my thoughts on the spell. Unless you know exactly what you're about to fight and when, you won't have it up when you need it.
Against DR/good, a wand of Bless Weapon works quite well. It's a lv1 paladin spell so a wand of it is only 750gp or 2pp. Oil of Bless Weapon is 50gp. 1CL last for 1 min.
Somehow, Lichaam doesn't have that yet. Thought he did. Scrolls it is!
Against incorporeal, one can use Paragon Surge or Tactical Adaptaion (magus only spell) to get Ghostslayer feat, and if your weapon is +2 then it count as Ghost Touch. The Shaman spell Spirit-Bound Bladeworks better may be more expensive.
"Sadly, the powers that be have decreed that I will never be able to use paragon surge. I do have a scroll of spirit-bound blade if we need to use it, but someone else having a scroll if I'm otherwise occupied could be helpful."
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It's about two melee hit worth of damage when maximized, for a 5th-level spell. Korin doesn't enough enough about higher level arcane spellcasting to judge its effectiveness, but he heard that Chains of Light deal with anything that doesn't immune to paralyze quite well.
Shadow Evocation can be used for Contingent Action/Contingent Scroll as well.
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So if we can get around the issue with Korin having a familiar, it looks like teleport-and-wait is still on the table (since the spell can only handle 6 people at CL15).
What is your opinion on sticking a familiar in an extradimensional space? If we do that, does it no longer count against the target limit for Greater Teleport? Or would we need to use something like Carry Companion first?
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[dice=Dice function doesn't seem to support
multiplication]6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6
It's about two melee hit worth of damage when maximized, for a 5th-level spell. Korin doesn't enough enough about higher level arcane spellcasting to judge its effectiveness, but he heard that Chains of Light deal with anything that doesn't immune to paralyze quite well.Shadow Evocation can be used for Contingent Action/Contingent Scroll as well.
Chains of Light is great, and Lichaam does prepare it, but it and Burn Corruption are designed for very different situations.
Chains of Light is for fighting one big thing that you want to stop being a problem. Burn Corruption is for "deal 45 or 27 damage (save for half) to that entire side of the map." It's for hordes or (shudder) swarms. Yes, high-level demonic swarms exist. No, you don't want to fight them.
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[dice=Dice function doesn't seem to support
multiplication]6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6+6
It's about two melee hit worth of damage when maximized, for a 5th-level spell. Korin doesn't enough enough about higher level arcane spellcasting to judge its effectiveness, but he heard that Chains of Light deal with anything that doesn't immune to paralyze quite well.Shadow Evocation can be used for Contingent Action/Contingent Scroll as well.
Chains of Light is great, and Lichaam does prepare it, but it and Burn Corruption are designed for very different situations.
Chains of Light is for fighting one big thing that you want to stop being a problem. Burn Corruption is for "deal 45 or 27 damage (save for half) to that entire side of the map." It's for hordes or (shudder) swarms. Yes, high-level demonic swarms exist. No, you don't want to fight them.
If the numerous enemy are non-demon swarm, then it falls behind on Empowered Fireball. If it's not swarm but a dozen semi-elite folks, then Fire Snake or Lightning Arc is slightly better? If it's conditionally better, I guess that comes down to whether we have enough backup plan/spell slot for alternative method when Burn Corruption is not effective.
And if the labyrinth takes too long, there's always way we can get our resource back relatively quickly
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If the numerous enemy are non-demon swarm, then it falls behind on Empowered Fireball. If it's not swarm but a dozen semi-elite folks, then Fire Snake or Lightning Arc is slightly better? If it's conditionally better, I guess that comes down to whether we have enough backup plan/spell slot for alternative method when Burn Corruption is not effective.
And if the labyrinth takes too long, there's always way we can get our resource back relatively quickly
It falls behind Empowered Fireball... but we don't have Empowered Fireball. Also, the demon subtype means they could all be immune to electricity and at least resist (normal) fire, which is why I brought up Burn Corruption and its unique properties.
Burn Corruption would not be my first choice for actions; it's just a "spread moderate pain over a wide area" option, for situations we might otherwise not be well prepared for.
Against incorporeal, one can use Paragon Surge or Tactical Adaptaion (magus only spell) to get Ghostslayer feat, and if your weapon is +2 then it count as Ghost Touch. The Shaman spell Spirit-Bound Bladeworks better may be more expensive.
Korin will craft 2 adventure day and 2 dungeon worth of alchemical supply for the group. I will have the compiled list of item later today.
Bear in mind that Paragon Surge is a race specific spell.
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One important note before we stock up on scrolls: Quenly is deaf. This means that he has a 20% chance of failing to cast from a normal scroll - assuming that you treat activating a scroll as the same thing as casting a spell with a verbal component.
Quenly still carries a few scrolls to expand his options via his Mnemonic Vestment, albeit that's a 1/day activation.
A safe solution to this problem is riffle scrolls, but they are a bit more expensive.
The Deaf oracle curse gives Quenly Silent Spell for free on all of his own spellcasting. Also, there's no impediment to using Contingent Scroll via Shadow Evocation (save for Quenly's limited level 6 spell slots).
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One important note before we stock up on scrolls: Quenly is deaf. This means that he has a 20% chance of failing to cast from a normal scroll - assuming that you treat activating a scroll as the same thing as casting a spell with a verbal component.
Lichaam has a Ring of Eloquence he'd be willing to loan if needed. That would reduce the failure rate to 10%.
Beyond that, Lichaam has quite a lot of UMD. He can handle scrolls up to CL14 without chance of failure. He can also emulate a casting stat for divine spells up to level 5 (with his masterwork tool), or up to level 3 for other spell lists (like bard.)