[PF2E] Otari/Abomination Vaults Adventure Path (Inactive)

Game Master Sam C.

Okay, glad to have that sorted. If you agree, we'll just ignore anything posted after Pfil made her check to try and convince Inva that staying with the party was safer. Maybe Inva eyerollingly decided to humor the sprite's argument or something.

Aside from that, however, I think we should give our elusive lizardman a chance to catch up with things. If I recall correctly, he'll still be slammed with whatever it is that life's handing him for a few days more. So maybe noodle around with discussion posts until then.

While looking for options to help Inva out with her Fortitude checks, I ran into an alchemical item called a vaccine. Basically, it offers immunity to a specific disease while it's in effect, but only if that disease comes from a particular vector; other vectors for that same disease only have a +2 item bonus to saves from the vaccine. The example used, ironically, was filthy fever contracted from giant rats versus filth fever contracted from an otyugh.

What I couldn't anything on, however, was how a vaccine works if someone is already infected with a given disease. And I couldn't find any discussion on it either. Any thoughts from you all?

There's also this:

ANTIPLAGUE
ITEM 1+
×
ALCHEMICAL
CONSUMABLE
ELIXIR
HEALING
Usage held in 1 hand; Bulk L

Activation Interact

Antiplague can fortify the body’s defenses against diseases. Upon drinking an antiplague, you gain an item bonus to Fortitude saving throws against diseases for 24 hours; this applies to your daily save against a disease’s progression.

Type lesser; Level 1; Price 3 gp; Identify Identify Alchemy (Crafting) DC 15;

You gain a +2 item bonus.

Re vaccines - Hmm. Good question. IRL some vaccines work during the incubation. But we're not IRL. And post-applied vaccines means alchemists basically negate disease as a thing. Though that's actually a pretty good in for an alchemist doctor, which is kinda neat.

Antiplague seems more broad spectrum, something one ought to have in their pocket when one has money :p

Re crafting in general - When I glanced at it, it seemed easier/less of a bother then in 1e. Maybe it's worth a second look and see if we can piece together some goodies :)

Re pace - I'm just going to slip in a post about what Hellewen saw.

Hey, don't wait around on my account! I'll drop something into gameplay.

@Rik'tik: So I did a stupid and misread Hunt Prey, focusing more on the "tracking during exploration" aspect of the ability and not the "applies to a single creature" aspect. Technically, it shouldn't be usable in the way that you requested and that I approved of, because how will you identify one specific creature among a group of them based on anonymous claw marks?

However, because I believe in more options and not fewer, I'm going to go with a suggestion that I read on a discussion thread about this specific situation.

(Add this bit to your character sheet.)
You can use Hunt Prey to track and find a group of creatures of the same type, gaining the bonus to Perception for seeking and Survival for tracking. Once you find one (or more) of the creatures that you've been tracking, you can designate one of their number as the focus of Hunt Prey abilities that require a specific Hunt Prey target to function, such as Hunter's Edge abilities and feats.

Okay, looks like we're about ready to go down in the tunnels proper now. Before then, a few things to take care of.

@Inva: Could you please get a status bar added to your character? It would be helpful to have that at-a-glance access to your vital stats.

Also, you're currently down 6hp, after getting a bit of healing from Eser.

@Everyone: Marching order, and knowing beyond a doubt who (if anyone) is out in front scouting.

@Everyone: Lighting. While a couple of you have darkvision, the rest of you still need some help. So are you going to use torches or ask Pfil to handle that?

@Everyone: Does anyone want to dip back upstairs or into Otari for anything? While, as I said in another post, there's something not to far ahead on this level that can get the party (and Inva specifically, with regards to taking care of that pesky disease) a good bit of positive favor, this adventure as a whole isn't on a tight schedule, so sidetrips are possible.

Hey, the claw marks are NOT rat claw marks, right? I just want to respond to Surla.

Rik'tik and Grasz can take the lead this time.

Hey, the claw marks are NOT rat claw marks, right? I just want to respond to Surla.

Absolutely correct. Basically, if you take your own hand, and placed it under something to lift it, dug your fingers in, and your fingers happened to have claws? That's what those marks are.

The only differences between those marks and what Rik'tik would leave are the size and spacing (the marks he found are smaller and closer together) and how far down on the panel's frame they are (indicating either some absurdly low-hanging arms or a small body). And those details are things that Rik'tik would have figured out from his examination of the marks, so you can consider that character knowledge.

Far enough ahead (but behind who is taking point) to provide a light source if needed, but NOT next to the hungry hungry croc, nothing I need from upstairs except a tiny cup of cacao - but that's not yet urgent.

Surla's happy with where she was in the last go, middle of the pack. :P

Eser could go towards teh front or as part of the rear guard, if the first three or so spaces are taken, which I think they are.

Alright, since everyone is apparently settled and ready, onward!

So . . . if anyone can save Rik'tik, I'll take it! If I understand the rules right, I could only have fallen on a 1, because falling requires a critical failure and a 1 makes the result one step worse, turning a failure into a critical failure. Maybe a couple of "aid anothers" will do it, since a 12 is a success and a 1 turns a success into a failure.

Your understanding is correct, a normal failure on the check would have seen no progress and a critical failure--which could also have been caused by failing the roll by 10 or more, not just a natural roll of a 1--would cause a fall.

Unfortunately, because Aid provides a circumstance bonus, you can't actually stack those from multiple sources. Only the character who's bonus is the highest--and they would have to make a critical success on their roll to get the maximum +2 bonus--would apply. Sorry, but you still fall down and go *boom*.

Further, to actually save the critical failure entirely, you would have had to have a modifier high enough that adding it to a "1" would still beat the DC by 10 or more. Which would have required a total modifier of 22 or better. So even if the rest of the party had been able to apply their Aid checks, and they all rolled high enough to grant a +2, you would have fallen (no pun intended there) short in any case.

Interestingly, I looked up the old standby of Take 10 for this check (precisely because I was worried about the potential for a natural 1), and that doesn't seem to be a thing anymore in this edition. Instead, there's a feat called Assurance (which applies only to a single skill) that does something similar. But as far as the rules are concerned, if there's a chance that your effort could have a tangible consequence for failing (such as taking damage from a fall), then you roll.

ABJURATION AIR IMPULSE KINETICIST PRIMAL

Trigger A creature within 60 feet is falling.

Gentle currents of air flow upward to slow the creature’s fall. The target’s fall slows to 60 feet per round. The cushion ends when the target reaches the ground, and the creature takes no damage from the fall. The cushion expires if the creature doesn’t reach the ground within 1 minute, but any distance it fell during that minute doesn’t count for any damage the creature would take from the fall. You can’t use Air Cushion again while you have one in effect.

Level (8th) The creature can be within 120 feet and there’s no restriction on the number of Air Cushions you can create at a time.

For reference :)

It's basically Feather Fall from 1e, but as a feat/Air Elemental Impulse. So as long as we fall one by one it's fine. (Now I'm not sure if the lizard carrying shenanigans block this or not but at worst one of them should be safe :p)

As a note I think the pixie also can float nicely, so for a bunch of 1st level adventurers I'd say we are pretty good at falling .p

Thanks for the save, Hellewen!

(Now I'm not sure if the lizard carrying shenanigans block this or not but at worst one of them should be safe :p)

Considering that Grasz is strapped to Rik'tik at the moment, he's effectively cargo and I'll allow it. And because it might come up again in the future, I'd like you to make note of the following on your character sheet somewhere.

Air Cushion can affect up two creatures at a time, provided that one of the two is incapable--by reason of unconsciousness or otherwise being rendered immobile--of movement under its own power and is being carried by the other creature for the duration of the fall.

The restriction keeps it from superseding the 8th level improvement, but still allows clutch usage to transport a downed ally (or Grasz).

It was either this or a very long range message spell. As a mono-elemental kineticist you get 3/4 of your 1st level impulses :p

I'll note down the addition. And ponder if it'll still exist once the real deal comes out :D

Having now found your first bit of party loot, I've gone ahead and made up a loot tracker to add it to. You'll find the link in the various campaign links at the top of the page or in the campaign brief in your personal Campaign tab.

I'll note down the addition. And ponder if it'll still exist once the real deal comes out :D

With the restriction in place? I don't see this addition as being overpowered or anything of that sort. So unless the final version of this particular ability is significantly different from the current test version, the addition will quite likely be a lasting houserule.

As a note I think the pixie also can float nicely, so for a bunch of 1st level adventurers I'd say we are pretty good at falling .p

Interestingly, the first level of wings won't help me with that. I did roll well enough, but I'd also gladly have geronimoed into your Air Cushion.

Re wings - A shame. Now, since we all know it's a great idea, maybe we could bring in some real physics and calculate the terminal velocity of a pixie. Most small light critters don't actually fall terribly fast ... :p

Re spooders - Now might be a good time to take stock of our anti-swarm actions. Just in case.

I *think* Hellewen's boomerang would work vs swarms, since it is a line and a line is an area, but I'm not sure if that's true in 2e.

Not a great option anyhow, because it is quite liable to friendly fire in cramped spaces.

(And true this might not actually be a swarm. But if it is, it would be handy to know we have some better plays then awkwardly trying to outclimb some spiders :P)

Upgraded the loot sheet with a quick exp counter as well.

Re wings: Aye, on the plus side, I eventually get to upgrade them. At a slower pace and higher cost than Wings in First Edition, but still, totally going for that.
And with real physics I actually expect Pixies to be squirrel-like in that regard. As in, no Terminal Fall Velocity. I'll have to starve to death on the way down.
Which is in direct opposition to official, which states you take up to 750 points of damage.
Which seems excessively lethal.
(and, for the record, does not account for size, mass, or density. Wether it's a Sperm Whale, a bowl of Petunias, a Rock Elemental, or a Hamster that is dropping down on you from 1500 feet up, it's the same potential damage.)

Regarding the spiders, I know they are theoretically very useful critters, but not at this size or number. Could we try and torch everything? Burn it all down and see what happens?
I'm afraid we may trigger that on the way back when we are less equipped to deal with whatever is there. There's also little preserved food that may suggest what kind of size is considered prey, but I'd wager we fall within that range.

Don't know about anyone else, but there's not a thing in the world I can do about swarms.

I have no idea how swarms work in Pathfinder 2E.

Could we perhaps make a knowledge Nature check to know the basics?

Swarms! Diving headfirst into rules are we? :P

I also have no clue how they work!

Meh, at least they are not an incorporeal swarm. Now THOSE are nasty.

From Nethys:
A swarm is a mass or cloud of creatures that functions as one monster. Its size entry gives the size of the entire mass, though for most swarms the individual creatures that make up that mass are Tiny. A swarm can occupy the same space as other creatures, and must do so in order to use its damaging action. A swarm typically has weakness to effects that deal damage over an area (like area spells and splash weapons). Swarms are immune to the grappled, prone, and restrained conditions.

So no more weapon immunity or something - they just still take "extra" from area effects but you can easily kill that spider swarm with some fancy stabbing(or, i suppose, indiscriminate chomping on account of Grasz).

Interestingly, the part "for most swarms the individual creatures that make up that mass are Tiny" implies that there could be a Sprite Swarm, as well.
I will have to look into that more.

Well, I won't get into what manner of spidery spider(s) might be in there. You'll find out or you won't :D.

Pfil's idea of burning has merit, however, and I'd already considered you might consider that yourselves and made sure to look up the necessary outcome in advance.

Per the Web spell: Each square can be cleared of the web by a single attack or effect that deals at least 5 slashing damage or 1 fire damage. A square has AC 5, and it automatically fails its saving throws.

I will further rule that a square of burning webbing has a chance of spreading the fire to adjacent squares with webbing. Each adjacent square rolls a 1d2. On an odd result, the fire spreads to that square. Anything in a square that catches fire takes 1d6 fire damage, though a basic Reflex save (DC 15) can be attempted to avoid damage.

Alright, let's set some webs on fire. I don't think I'm currently in webbing, but if I am, I would scooch the party back before lighting the web on fire.

No, you're clear of webbing, so that's fine.

However, if you catch this post in time to edit your game post, do so and make an attack roll against an AC of 5.

I know it's silly to require an attack roll against the webbing, but I guess the general idea behind it is that if it does damage, it requires an attack roll and a chance to miss and not do damage?

So I've been looking up various implementations of the rules, specifically Recall Knowledge, and I've found something that I'm going to be using from here on out. A successful check reveals what the critter is and allows for one question to asked about the critter's capabilities. A critical success allows for three questions to be asked instead.

This has been noted in the Campaign Info tab.

After the last fight, you all expressed a preference for block initiative whenever possible, so here's the blocks based on current results. Block #1 Hellewen and Surla, Block #2 Spider, and Block #3 Inva, Rik'tik, and Grasz. If Eser and Pfil get better than 15 on their checks, they'll be in #1, if they get less than (or somehow tie with) 15 then they'll be in #3.

Within your block, you can go in whatever order you like.

Does that work for you?

Regarding your posts:

1.: It's "silly" to require an attack roll against something if you are not in a hurry and can just try it again until eventually you succeed, and there is no penalty for failure.
I.e. if you attempt to set something on fire and merely moving your torch nearby won't disrupt the webbing to the point of alerting whatever creature the webbing holds.
(also: I'm hacking down that door - even if that door has 100 HP and 8 hardness, if you can do up to 10 damage reliable you WILL eventually hack through - if time is not an issue, requiring the rolls to do so, however, would be tedious.)

2.: Recall information - got it. Alas, I would ask that that is the case for information specific to the enemy at hand.
I did look up Swarms because based on 1st edition, there is a certain player expectation regarding them - and I strongly believe that even without facing a swarm in combat, some basic information about how they handle in-world would be character knowledge we players have not.
(e.g. wether using weaponry against them would be valid or not - having to find out by trial&error or via checks seems to disregard the distinction between player and character-knowledge - in 2nd edition, our characters should be ahead of us where in 1st edition, it often was the other way round(and also important not to mix things up in meta).) I'll follow your decision but wanted to bring that up -

3.: Technically, unless there are round-based effects or changes to the battlefield(e.g. enemy reinforcement on round 3, a collapsing structure 1d4 rounds after combat start, etc...) it makes sense to have block 3 be "all players", otherwise you have Block 3 with 4 people doing their posts, then Block 1 with another 3 people doing their posts, before the spider gets to act again.(and people could theoretically also delay if thats still a thing, to let someone in the following block go first...)

1) Well, in this instance, there could have been a penalty if Rik'tik had fumbled that attack roll. Torch bobbles out of his hand, hits the webbing (thus alerting Mr. Spider to dinner guests) but doesn't set anything alight.

2) I think understand your point regarding character knowledge, but that would put a lot more effort into deciding what aspect(s) of a creature constitutes "basic" character knowledge and what then requires a check to recall. Take a vampire, for example, probably a lot of people know about staking them to keep them down, brandishing holy symbols or garlic to ward them off, or sunlight destroying them. But what about their compulsions? Or the difference between a spawn and a true vampire? And that doesn't even get into what could be considered basic character knowledge in a region where vampires are common versus one where they're not.

I think that's the intent behind untrained Recall checks, actually, allowing characters to have (and try remember when prompted) that basic level of "everyone knows this" knowledge.

I'm open to revising the rule, however, based on feedback. There were a few suggestions on how to handle giving out information on a check. In fact, one revision I could institute right now is allowing one additional question to be asked for each level of proficiency in the specified knowledge or lore skill. So proficient characters would not only know more obscure information, but more overall.

3) Kind of negates the value of a good initiative roll then, doesn't it? And if everyone had gotten better than a 15 (or the spider had rolled poorly instead), then the congaline spider stomping would still happen.

1.: I am well aware take 10 does not exist in this universe, and never was a thing for attack rolls. But AFAIK while a roll of 1 is a fumble, there is - by default - no penalty for a critical failure on an attack roll, unless additional abilities(such as fighters "dueling riposte") come into play. So he could wave the torch around all day trying to set fire to something without stumbling every time he rolls a 1 and throwing the torch somewhere-
Otherwise splitting wood with an axe would be a supremely dangerous job in this world, with how clumsy everybody gets :)

2.: As said, totally fine with whatever you go with. Definitely also with subversion of tropes(e.g. if vampires were around before certain religions, why would they even care about those holy symbols unless the person has some special gift of channeling divine power?)
As said, I'm not even referencing to the "everybody knows that" section about certain mythological creatures, just about "overall" mechanics that would likely be known even from stories, or picked up elsewhere.
To give an example of what I mean: in earlier iterations(specifically D&D 3/3.5) Undead were immune to precision damage(and crits, if memory serves). Pathfinder changed that to allow both to apply(reasoning with e.g. headshots versus zombies). A character in-world would probably be aware - undead are common enough in all regions of the world that there's likely some innkeep, travelling adventurer passing through and sharing some stories for a drink, or militia guy in the town that fought against some at some point in their life. The fact that critically smashing their brain "did not impress them"/"ended their miserable existance swiftly" would make it quite easy to understand that yes, they are subject to crits - or not. Mind you, I am not even talking about obscure creature types or stuff that comes in seldom. Just like, the "basic" parameters that come with certain creature types. Can I grapple a swarm? Kinda makes sense that I can't. Will swinging a weapon wildly help in dispersing it? Seems like it, but is a arbitrary decision ruleswise.
Mostly what I take offense with is that the untrained knowledge check takes an action, because Recall knowledge does - but the full text is "You might know basic information about something without needing to attempt a check, but Recall Knowledge requires you to stop and think for a moment so you can recollect more specific facts and apply them.".
So what I'm getting at is that some of the "basic" mechanical information should be "without needing to attempt a check", so that recalling information becomes optional rather than mandatory to know even the most basic stuff about what we are doing or what we are up against.
But as said, I'm quite willing to roll with whatever you decide to go with. Just trying to present my viewpoint, there - (it's hard to transmit meaning and intent purely in writing, so adding that as disclaimer).

3: I don't quite understand?
Right now you have
R1:
Group 1
Spider
Group 2
R2:
Group 1
Spider
Group 2
R3:
Group 1
Spider
Group 2

what I'm saying is that unless something happens between group 2 and 1 that is essentially the same as
R1:
Group 1
Spider
R2:
Group 1+2
Spider
R3:
Group 1+2
Spider

only that in the second example we don't have 3 people waiting for the other 3 people to post first, before they can do their actions.
The good initiative roll gives you an extra action at the start of the combat, either way, and if we all get to act in sequence there is some congaline potential even if the sequence is fixed - again, I'm fine with what you decide, im just saying by keeping the groups separated despite Group 1 R2 being directly after Group 2 R1 in sequence might slow things down more than if "everybody" who is up before the next baddy would get to post. But maybe I misunderstood what you meant? But keeping "Block 3" separate (and pointing out that within our block we are free to post in any order we like) seems different from "these people go before the spider, then the spider, then it's everybodies turn"...

So much reply that I can't actually directly quote the bits I'm responding to, and instead have to copy/paste :p.

Mostly what I take offense with is that the untrained knowledge check takes an action, because Recall knowledge does - but the full text is "You might know basic information about something without needing to attempt a check, but Recall Knowledge requires you to stop and think for a moment so you can recollect more specific facts and apply them.".

So what I'm getting at is that some of the "basic" mechanical information should be "without needing to attempt a check", so that recalling information becomes optional rather than mandatory to know even the most basic stuff about what we are doing or what we are up against.

Yes, I got all of that. And I've done a bit of digging around and maybe found something that fits what you're looking for. The bestiary has a list of traits that describe (in varying levels of detail) notable features of each of the creatures listed in the book.

So using the spider swarm as an example, a spider swarm has the [Animal] and [Swarm] traits. The descriptions for those are as follows:

[Animal] - An animal is a creature with a relatively low intelligence. It typically doesn’t have an Intelligence modifier above –4, can’t speak languages, and can’t be trained in Intelligence-based skills.

[Swarm] - A swarm is a mass or cloud of creatures that functions as one monster. Its size entry gives the size of the entire mass, though for most swarms the individual creatures that make up that mass are Tiny. A swarm can occupy the same space as other creatures, and must do so in order to use its damaging action. A swarm typically has weakness to effects that deal damage over an area (like area spells and splash weapons).

Would that constitute the sort of "basic" knowledge you're talking about? Because if so, then I could agree to allow a single free Recall Knowledge check (for the entire party, not for each member) to identify a creature, success revealing its name (spider swarm), traits ([Animal] and [Swarm]), and the information listed under those traits. After that, you would do the standard Recall checks to get hard information out of the stat block.

If that's not what you're talking about, however, then I'm at a loss for how to address your issue. Because the only other option is to hand you information straight from the stat block, and that brings us right back to what parts of the block would be considered "basic" knowledge.

3: I don't quite understand?

Right now you have
R1:
Group 1
Spider
Group 2
R2:
Group 1
Spider
Group 2
R3:
Group 1
Spider
Group 2

what I'm saying is that unless something happens between group 2 and 1 that is essentially the same as
R1:
Group 1
Spider
R2:
Group 1+2
Spider
R3:
Group 1+2
Spider

only that in the second example we don't have 3 people waiting for the other 3 people to post first, before they can do their actions.
The good initiative roll gives you an extra action at the start of the combat, either way, and if we all get to act in sequence there is some congaline potential even if the sequence is fixed - again, I'm fine with what you decide, im just saying by keeping the groups separated despite Group 1 R2 being directly after Group 2 R1 in sequence might slow things down more than if "everybody" who is up before the next baddy would get to post. But maybe I misunderstood what you meant? But keeping "Block 3" separate (and pointing out that within our block we are free to post in any order we like) seems different from "these people go before the spider, then the spider, then it's everybodies turn"...

That's an incredibly odd way of looking at the initiative progression. Your example effectively treats round 1 as some sort of surprise round where only the people who rolled better than the spider get to act. And then, after the spider does it action(s) for the round, the entire party just goes in one free-for-all mob in round 2? That's definitely not correct.

Being at the end of the round's initiative order is not at all the same as being first up in the subsequent round; if there was a second monster whose initiative result was worse then entire party's (momentarily ignoring Rik'tik's result of a '1'), then that creature would be placed in Block 4. By your example, Block 4 wouldn't act in round 1, but would act in round 2 with the players in Block 1.

Would that constitute the sort of "basic" knowledge you're talking about? Because if so, then I could agree to allow a single free Recall Knowledge check (for the entire party, not for each member) to identify a creature,...

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. "Animals are not very smart creatures in comparison" should not be something I have to take time to recall every time I see a donkey.

As for your theoretical "Block 4", that is why I pointed out "unless something happens between groups 2 and 1".
But basically whatever way you look at it, after the Spider had it's turn, ALL players get to act BEFORE the spider gets it's next turn.
The point of allowing a "free for all"-mob is not to empower the players - who at that point could normally achieve the same result with simply "delaying" to achieve the exact order of actions they desire.
The point is that whoever is online can post their action, and it's assumed it happened at that point in initiative.
As opposed to sticking to the blocks, where after the spider went, we have to wait until Inva, Pfil and Riktik posted, resolve that block, then wait until Hellewen, Surla, Eser posted, resolve that block, then go to the spider.
It's about pacing of combat mostly - going by strict Init you would always wait for exactly one player - everybody else can have checked in and know what they'll want to do, but can't post without jumping the line - which extends combat to a long affair. But even with 2 blocks that can have negative impact.

e.g. the spider just had it's turn. Init now is:
Block 2(Inva, Pfil, Riktik) last R1.
Block 1(Hellewen, Surla, Eser) first R2

To be perfectly clear: I have absolutely no strong feelings on this one, I am just trying, very verbosely, to explain my point. We can try whatever mode for initiative you prefer.

But basically, thanks to the free action "delay" we are still a mob.

Source Core Rulebook pg. 470 4.0

Trigger: Your turn begins.
You wait for the right moment to act. The rest of your turn doesn’t happen yet. Instead, you’re removed from the initiative order. You can return to the initiative order as a free action triggered by the end of any other creature’s turn. This permanently changes your initiative to the new position. You can’t use reactions until you return to the initiative order. If you Delay an entire round without returning to the initiative order, the actions from the Delayed turn are lost, your initiative doesn’t change, and your next turn occurs at your original position in the initiative order.

So with nothing else happening, all of Block 2 could e.g. decide to "delay" until after Hellewen in Block 1 acted, then Surla could delay until after Eser, and Pfil decides she wants to go last anyway.

(Of course, there's more about bad things still happening if you delay and good things running out when you delay, but thats mostly technicalities for the core point.)

To keep this short, I agree with Pfil about initiative.

When there is a single enemy then, by definition, all players get to act after the single enemy acts. The spider doesn't get to skip the players' turns. Therefore, even if you use strict initiative order, the "mob" of players will get to take their turn. No special advantage is being given to the players.

The reason it seems like a "mob" is that, in the example of a spider vs PCs, the PCs really are a "mob." But when it's 20 spiders vs the PCs, then the spiders get to mob the players on the spiders' turn. Block initiative doesn't affect that.

I have read this vast block of explanation, and it's all very well argued.

It also overlooks one major aspect that I hadn't been able to articulate properly until I managed to get some sleep and clear the s&~* from my brain. And that aspect is that it will make the gameplay thread look like an utter mess of unnecessary and discarded action posts.

My version:
Hellewen, Surla, and Eser all do their thing.

Spider does spider things.

Inva, Pfil, and then Rik'tik and Grasz do their thing.

Spider does nothing, because spider is dead. Combat ends, everyone moves on.

Your version:
Hellewen, Surla, and Eser all do their thing.

Spider does spider things.

Hellewen, Surla, Inva, Eser, Rik'tik and Grasz, and Pfil, do their thing in that order because that's the order that they happen to be around to post. But three of those posts just end up clogging the gameplay thread uselessly because the remainder of the round 1 actions (once accounted for on my end) are enough to end the fight.

It's bad enough for a normal retcon that leaves orphaned posts in its wake. But (potentially) having every encounter doing so is going to make the gameplay thread a cluttered graveyard of "dead" posts. And while that might not be an issue most of the time, I'm pretty sure anyone who has a reason to search the gameplay thread for something is probably going to have a different opinion in short order.

If Paizo extended the window in which a post could be deleted, or otherwise made it possible to delete/hide posts on the DM's side as a form of housekeeping, I wouldn't have a problem with those dangling posts. Just in go in after an encounter and do some cleanup.

Nonetheless, I'm willing to consider things that streamline the game if possible. So if you (all of you) want to do it this way, then we will.

But the first time that a gameplay page has 16 or more of its allotted 50 posts end up as "dead" posts--and I will specifically point out that actual retcon posts do not count toward this--because of this method, it's out. Fair enough? Because that point, the time you're nominally supposed to be saving by not having to wait is being wasted regardless.

Re Boop - The air elemental blast doesn't do that much damage. Maybe with an item or two, ect ect. But by then I'll have access to the juicy "spells" :D

Re Initiative - Blobbing up across the turns certainly makes things faster, which is nice. On the flip side it can mean small combats (like this one?) could be over before someone gets the chance to take a shot - if for example the fast ones make a new post now and actually hit all our attacks the spider might be dead ...

I'd say it's worth a try though. Maybe with a small dose of let's give everyone the chance to get a swipe in on the first turn at least :p

I'm too pressed for time to read through all the initiative stuff posted and try to figure it out. I'm fine with whatever.

@GM: I understand where you are coming from with the "dead" posts, but that assumes we get to conga successfully and often. In my own experience, most battles not involving alphastrikes or single enemies take several rounds, regardless.

Alas, the argument I would like to add here is that the decisive factor for your worry is GM activeness.
If GM checks in regulary, he may already resolve and declare the spider dead after the first, say, 4 people have posted. Or "heavily wounded" after the first 2, and we'll know to stop hitting it if someone else gets a good hit in after that.
So that'll cut back on the "dead" posts.
On the other hand, if GM is NOT able to check in often - in comparison to the players - then it may be desirable despite a higher rate of "dead" posts.
Say 3 people act, but it is NOT dead yet. Everybody waits until you come around and say the other 3 may have a go, and everybody waits for your next pass.
Where if everybody was allowed to go, you could resolve the round, act the spider if still alive, and possibly repeat on your next pass.

That said, even so you'll end up with "dead" posts, if the spider is barely alive after the first 3 people, then the other 3 people all try to make sure it's well and truly dead before your next pass.
I believe this is one reason why some GM's announce the AC and HP of the enemies so players can figure out themselves what the situation is.

But honestly, I believe it will not be a huge problem - apart from very early on, most battles only featuring a single/few enemies have them be rather sturdy or staying power via some means.
And most battles with multiple/many smaller enemies, people will either figure out their stats, post conditional posts, or wait for you to update the map to see what the situation is when they are really up, in case things were not clear.
In both scenarios, the amount of "dead" posts should be quite small. But as said, no strong feelings, either way works for me, I just wanted you to keep this in mind in case the "flow" could use improvement. :)

Since Pfil's Recall Knowledge questions aren't actually stat-related, I've decided to answer them all.

First, yes, hunting spiders are solitary. That doesn't, of course, preclude a bunch of fresh little horrors in the nest. But if those are present, then they're in an egg state or they would have come out to see what the fuss was about when the fight started. So you're good in that regard.

With regards to harvesting venom, 2e doesn't have rules for that. However, since you've expressed enough of an interest to think of the question, I'll go ahead and crib the 1e rules which do exist for this specific thing.

So, in summation, yes, you absolutely can harvest that spider's venom. For the purpose of the determining the DC to successfully harvest the venom, consider the spider to have a CR of 1. And for the purpose of determining the maximum number of harvestable doses, the spider's Constitution modifier is +1. Provided the process is successful, you'll have acquired one dose of hunting spider venom. Oh, and because of the particular nature of the work, I'm going to specify that this is a Trained-only use of the Survival skill.

Ah, survival, one of the skills Pfil is not good at (since she basically grew up almost entirely indoors in a city).

But that does seem quite doable, and PF2 poisons are actually "decent" in terms of efficiency and desirable in-combat effects.

So yeah, I'd suggest we do attempt to harvest that venom, but I'd suggest someone with a better survival score takes initiative on that one :)

Thanks for fancying my inquiry!

Rik'tik has a bland +5 to survival. Can anyone beat that? If not, happy to try harvesting.

Just to point out here, you do have 24 hours before the venom becomes inert and working with ad-hoc tools--since I don't believe anyone has the necessary medical-grade tools on them right now--imposes a penalty as well. (On a related note, a potion vial would be just the right size to hold a harvested venom dose, provided the vial was obviously emptied and cleaned a bit first.)

So you can come back later with the right equipment, and maybe even a more skilled expert to help with (or outright do) the work. If you choose to do this, I'll rule that the scent of the spider's presence is strong enough to keep opportunistic scavengers out the cavern for that time, so the body will be undamaged when you get back to it.

I've added a new link in the campaign info to some house rules in effect, including (hopefully) clarified rules on using Recall Knowledge to identify creatures (mostly in combat encounters).

Eser has a medkit. Would that be acceptable for poison harvest?

Mmm, basic kit? No. Expanded kit? Yes.

Hellewen has a survival skill of +3. A little at least :p

She also has a Crafting skill of +5 and a Basic Crafter's Book which *might* be what one would use to alchemically stabilize the venom? I'm not sure. I glanced at the 2e mundane/alchemical crafting rules, saw they were somewhat more reasonable then 1e and then kinda never read the rest. Will look it up this weekend!

Have a water skin that she'd be willing to part with if we need a vessel.