Lost Lands

Game Master Edeldhur

And Gubble is back!

Hope you had a nice trip back, and some decent rest ;)

It was long, but accomplished a lot. So all in all it was worth it. I have the rest of the week off to recover, so should be able to catch up with GAMES (and family)

:)

I will most likely move us along later today, so just feel free to post in Gameplay if you are planning on doing some preparation, buying supplies, etc.

I need to update my equipment since I never finished it during character creation. I'll try to do that today.

Updated!

I added Gubble's spell list and will buy a sewing kit (maybe an artisan tool?) And bought 5 more days of trail rations.

Keep it up guys!

@Naomi: Why is Enhanced Diplomacy marked as 3.5 in PFSRD?

Also a side note on casting - I usually consider casting as something 'obvious'. So I am cool with fluff text such as 'silent prayer', or 'quietly mumbles the words of a spell' and stuff like that.

And I might even allow the casting of the spell to go unnoticed, but as an example in the case of Naomi (I am not saying you were trying to cast it without being noticed), when someone is heading your way, and probably looking at you, that person will realize you are doing something out of the ordinary (if that NPC will understand what magic is, or that you were actually casting a magic spell is a whole other ball game).

I know there are feats and class abilities that are made exactly for casting spells in less noticeable ways, so if you have any of those just let me know in future instances ;)

I will have a post for your morning meeting soon.

@Naomi: Why is Enhanced Diplomacy marked as 3.5 in PFSRD?

I don't have any idea. I honestly don't play casters enough to know. Does anyone else know?

Also a side note on casting - I usually consider casting as something 'obvious'. So I am cool with fluff text such as 'silent prayer', or 'quietly mumbles the words of a spell' and stuff like that.

And I might even allow the casting of the spell to go unnoticed, but as an example in the case of Naomi (I am not saying you were trying to cast it without being noticed), when someone is heading your way, and probably looking at you, that person will realize you are doing something out of the ordinary (if that NPC will understand what magic is, or that you were actually casting a magic spell is a whole other ball game).

I know there are feats and class abilities that are made exactly for casting spells in less noticeable ways, so if you have any of those just let me know in future instances ;)

Ok, hadn't thought about the verbal and somantic parts of it. (again not played a caster a lot) She does not have a way to hide/cover up the fact that she is casting. I imagined it like a catholic whispering a pray and crossing themselves. If she's a known 'religious' person is it that big of a distraction/deal breaker?

Obviously Alec would have seen the motion and possibly heard the prayer, not sure how it plays out with his opinion.

It seems kind of stupid to have spells like 'Enhanced Diplomacy, or 'Guidance' for social skills if using them is going to cause the exact opposite effect your going for.

I started looking down the cleric spell list, It seems there are a few spells for 'social' interaction: Cultural adaptation, detect the faithful, Fairness, Hidden Diplomacy, tap inner beauty, just in the first level.

Should I have had her cast the spell while at the table, the spell has a 'minute' to use it. How would you have preferred she handle it/what would you recommend I do differently so it fits within guidelines?

Obviously Alec would have seen the motion and possibly heard the prayer, not sure how it plays out with his opinion.

In this case it did not play with his opinion at all - we are still finding our middle ground ;)

I can go into each spell in more detail if you would like, but:

- Guidance has several applications apart from social interactions;
- I believe all the spells you mentioned have a 1 minute (most of them more) duration? I think that is time enough to cast it in a more discreet locale, and then engage in the social interaction. Exception below;
- Hidden Diplomacy is an instant spell, and some of its description explains that the memory of the spell's target is clouded somewhat, regarding the threats or pressure applied. So I guess this could be argued as a case for which the target does not realize a spell was cast at all.

Regarding this specific case - yeah, I would have cast it at the table. Perhaps trying to make sure no one is intently watching. It is only a standard action after all (3 seconds?). Or cast it in the bathroom (if there is one) before coming out. Maybe pretend you are patting Thistle, and cast it slightly hidden from view.

Please keep in mind you can of course cast it in the open at any point in time - I am just pointing out IF there are consequences to be had from anyone noticing the casting, then they CAN occur if steps are not taken to try and conceal/disguise it. Many other factors can come into play - is there a lot going on around you? Is someone even paying attention to you? Do they even have reasons to think you are casting a spell? Do they care? Do they even notice? Etc, etc.

Makes sense?

Makes sense?

Sure.

I don't play a lot of casters and I'll play it however fits your gaming style the best.

I realize Guidance has a lot of applications. I'm just saying that there are a lot of spells for 'social' interaction and if casting them will cause 'concerns' then it seems counter productive for a positive result in the social interaction.

Like I said, I'll play it how you see it and make sure things are more subtle from here on out. But I would think that the nature of the spell, especially divine ones, should be reflected in the verbal and somatic cues.

In my mind there should be a recognizable difference between someone praying for their meal to be blessed and someone calling down hellfire....

Edit:Last question: if she did cast it out in the open in front of god and everyone, wouldn't someone need to cast 'detect magic' or make an 'arcane knowledge' check to understand what's going on, especially if there was no physical manifestations of the spell? She cast the spell on herself, so no one would feel it other than her.

I am not saying it will cause concerns. I am saying it ‘can’ cause concerns. It will all depend on the onlooker, the situation, etc.

I am perfectly ok (I actually like it) with the nature of the spell to be reflected in the verbal and somatic cues - that for me is fluff you can ‘modify’ at will. That is why I said ‘I am cool with fluff text such as 'silent prayer', or 'quietly mumbles the words of a spell' and stuff like that’ ;)

What I am adding here is the fact it can raise eyebrows (or not) from someone who suspects you are casting a spell, which can be elicited by your gestures and words. There are many who will not act without a Detect Magic, or a Knowledge (Arcana), but there are others who may do so - positively, or negatively. Maybe some will think you are trying to curse them and attack you or run, and others will think you are trying to bless them and will thank or pay you, while still others will not even notice or will dismiss your gestures and words as something completely different.

Bottom line, you should not assume it will not be noticed. And if it is noticed, the reaction will depend on the onlooker(s).

Case in point - if Alec suspected you were casting a spell, a million different things could happen. Maybe Alec was an adventurer in the past, and he is familiar with some magic? Maybe he would be suspicious of anyone using magic in his Inn? Maybe he would ask you about it? Maybe he would rather you would not sleep there just in case? Maybe instead, he would recount some plight which has been assaulting his family, and you as a magic user could help him? Maybe he would think to himself - ‘naaaaah, this lass isn’t casting no spells. Too young she is’ - and completely ignore it? Maybe he was thinking about his own life, and didn’t even notice? Maybe he doesn’t associate those deliberate gestures and words with spellcasting, so it doesn’t even register? We could go on forever ;)

Cool, thanks for the answers, I do better with remembering things if I can talk it out a little.

I know just enough about magic in game to ask some really dumb and pointless questions :)

I knew there were some spells that when you cast them on opponents, like compulsion spells, that if they fail the save they know they've been attacked. I didn't think about how others would take spells not directed at them.

I just imagined it was like a Nun Crossing herself saying 'Mother Mary and Joseph help me' Which would cause different reactions from different people, but most wouldn't see it as something to worry about.

And we could go on Forever. But I need to mix a 'rub' for the pork I have in the fridge, so we will leave it at that.

If folks start posting, I'll try and get something up before 4:00, if not I'll post in the morning.

But I need to mix a 'rub' for the pork I have in the fridge, so we will leave it at that.

Hah! My pork has been seasoned for ages - I will be grilling it in about an hour ;)

Why 3.5?
That mean's it's from 3.5 DnD and was incorporated into pathfinder. Or it was from EARLY pathfinder. Pathfinder originally was designed to be compatible with DnD 3.5

I've played in some games that allow classes from 3.5 but those are rare.
Two of my favorite prestige classes from 3.5:
Radiant Servant of Pelor/Sarenae
Swiftblade

Enhanced Diplomacy has
V,S components
To render the spell undetectable if cast in front of the target both Still and Silent spell metamagics would be needed. But as it's got a duration it can easily be cast away from the target without attracting undue attention

Also adding a journal, to chronicle our exploits.

Enhanced Diplomacy is from Taldor Echoes of Glory. I think that book was before Pathfinder became Pathfinder, if you will.

Basically anything that came out before the Core Rulebook is still considered 3.5. I believe Legacy of Fire is based off 3.5. Second Darkness as well. At least, I think SD was. Fairly certain but not entirely sure.

But I believe after those two, the Core Rulebook came out and everything after that was officially Pathfinder rules.

@Elgrin: Radiant Servant of Pelor was cool. When we use to play in RL, my brother-in-law played one. I played a paladin. Javell Deleon as a matter of fact. Really fun guy. ;)

Anyway, he had a saying called: "The 7 P's of Pelor." Prior proper planning prevents piss poor performance. ;D

Ok, thanks for the clarification guys - I suspected it was something like that. Was just wondering if all PF3.5 content ports directly to PF1.

Radiant Servant of Pelor was amazing - best healer we ever had in our group. Lots of flavor to the Prestige Class also.

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Now for some OOC considerations, while we wait for everyone to check in before the first 'on the road' post:

- Traveling speed: Your overland walking speed (based on Gubble) is 16 miles per day;
- Food: I will ask you all to detail the amount of rations and water your characters are carrying (I know most of you have already done it). I am not a sucker for this kind of thing, but the Lost Lands are vast, so precautions are needed. After all, this is a FGG setting - easy to get lost in dire conditions ;)
Question about Animal Companions: I always assumed they eat out of the player's rations, and drink out of the player's water. Unless you have feed specifically for them, though usually that might weigh you down. Does it make sense to all of you?
- Equipment: Now is the time to double check your gear, and make sure you have all you need. Opportunities for purchases on the road may, or may not come up. If there is any gear you feel like you are missing, feel free to add it;
- Encumbrance: I usually just flat out ignore it, unless I see a STR8 character acting like a pack mule :P
Without doing any math, I get the feeling Gubble, Hamish and Thistle are probably carrying a medium load? Let me know.

- Headers: Would be cool to have your updated character information: AC, HP, Perception, you know the drill.

- Initiative: I know for some characters/builds, the initiative count may be important, so I have no method written in stone. I was planning on going something like:
1. I roll for all.
2. First round of actions we go on the initiative count exactly.
3. Subsequent rounds we go in block.
4. Example: Players roll 22, 18, 15, 10, 8, 6. Bad guys roll 14.
22, 18 and 15 post.
Bad guys post.
Then we can either go
a) 10, 8 and 6 post THEN 22, 18, and 15 post
OR
b) Every player posts, effectively converting into blocks (good guys - bad guys - good guys)

Note: Let me know what you think. Not sure I explained it very clearly :/ Also we can modify it as we go along to something we are all more comfortable with.

- Saves: I dislike rolling saves for players :P So when a save is called for, just post it as the first thing in your next post. Done.

I am sure there is more OOC to discuss - we'll do it as we go along.

Naomi, I think Thistle's carrying capacity should be light load: 0-50 medium load: 51 - 100 heavy load: 101 - 150, because he has a Str of 13?

Probably. As I had said earlier I copy and pasted Thistle from another game. I had asked the GM if wolves carrying capacity was like humans or if they were like horses, able to carry a heavier load. He gave me what he thought carrying capacity was and I didn't change it. I don't know if they were rules he found, or if he just made them up. I didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Unless you or anyone else (yeah, looking at you Elgrin Mouse) knows a reason wolves carrying capacity would be higher, I'll have Naomi carry her own gear.

We should be traveling eight hours a day, the other time setting up camp, etc. Would that leave Thistle enough time to hunt 'off screen' or does Naomi need to bring food for him?

I was doing some further investigation, and so:

Survival DC 10
Get along in the wild. Move up to half your overland speed while hunting and foraging (no food or water supplies needed). You can provide food and water for one other person for every 2 points by which your check result exceeds 10.

Since a Wolf's overland speed is more than double the speed of the group, I think we can safely assume he can actually hunt and forage during the day, if you are in a wilderness environment.

So all is good (and I just learned something)! You would have to provide food for him only when he can't hunt ;)

Gubble is at light load, due to his masterwork backpack, but I think I need to add more food and water. Return trip and all. Let me have a minute with that this morning.

I'll add the header. I thought I had done the spells already but will check on that.

So all is good (and I just learned something)! You would have to provide food for him only when he can't hunt ;)

Cool, will keep the 'pack saddle' and let her carry a little food for herself. Will also change her 'carrying capacity' on Naomi's sheet And will have Naomi purchase more food rations, up to what she can carry for a med. load.

Once we're in serious situations, she will dump the pack somewhere :)

Post incoming.

On initiative I'm good either way, I've not played following order 1st round then in 'blocks' the second on. Would be interested to see it in PBP.

Edit: Naomi uses charisma instead of dex for armor. I'm assuming the + 3 dex modifier max. carrying a medium weight, would also apply to her using Charisma, changing her AC to 17 carrying a medium load. Is that correct?

Option B is the typical way I've played it, so that has my vote but will have no problem if everyone wants to go the other way.

For clarification, "22, 18 and 15 post." in your example, means 22, 18, and 15 post in any order, not we wait on 22 to post, then 18, and then 15? 4

Spellbook is a spoiled at top of his character sheet. Not much in it at the moment, didn't include the basic included cantrips though.

Working on the rest now.

For clarification, "22, 18 and 15 post." in your example, means 22, 18, and 15 post in any order, not we wait on 22 to post, then 18, and then 15?

Yep, in any order.

Added 10 trail rations, a journal, and a poncho (for rain storms), plus want to learn waterproof and comprehend languages if that is acceptable. If not, no worries. I don't think he would have enough time to do so before heading out, so this would have had to be forward thinking on his part before posting the job.

Herolab tells me his encumbrance is 20.79 and his light load is 22.5 (with masterwork backpack).

I don't have herolab so I do everything on a word document, I hate running the math on 'weight' for halflings!

Edit: I didn't count the 'money she earned playing' in any of Naomi's stuff, I figure it was a wash RPing the tavern.

No worries Gubble - feel free to buy Waterproof and Comprehend Languages.

Huh...well if we are using encumbrance, then Hamish will purchase a pack mule for the trip because two weeks of trail rations is 20 pounds by themselves. Sometime over the weekend, I'll note what is typically carried by the mule vs. him. This also means others can reduce their load if needed since the mule will have plenty of extra carrying capacity.

I considered a pony for Gubble to increase our walking speed, but was worried with his lack of animal handling and ride when we are in the company with two wolves.

Pack mule sounds good - what name will you give her? :)

Pack mule sounds good - what name will you give her? :)

Dude, a pack mule sounds awesome! I've little money left, but GM-Obermind may let me convert Thistles 'pack saddle' to a mule's 'pack saddle' to help absorb the cost.

GM - Obermind wrote:

Naomi, I think Thistle's carrying capacity should be light load: 0-50 medium load: 51 - 100 heavy load: 101 - 150, because he has a Str of 13?

Probably. As I had said earlier I copy and pasted Thistle from another game. I had asked the GM if wolves carrying capacity was like humans or if they were like horses, able to carry a heavier load. He gave me what he thought carrying capacity was and I didn't change it. I don't know if they were rules he found, or if he just made them up. I didn't want to look a gift horse in the mouth.

@Naomi: I have just learned another thing regarding carrying capacity.

Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Multiply the values corresponding to the creature’s Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×1/4, Diminutive ×1/2, Tiny ×3/4, Small ×1, Medium ×1-1/2, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24.

Since Thistle is a Medium quadruped with a Str of 13, his actual carrying capacity should be:

Light Load: 0 - 75 lbs
Medium Load: 76 - 150 lbs
Heavy Load: 151 - 225 lbs

Same as a mule in fact ;)

GM - Obermind wrote:

Pack mule sounds good - what name will you give her? :)

Dude, a pack mule sounds awesome! I've little money left, but GM-Obermind may let me convert Thistles 'pack saddle' to a mule's 'pack saddle' to help absorb the cost.

Fine by me. A donkey or mule only costs 8 gold though. Not too expensive.

Depending on what Hamish decides to do with the mule, I will alter how Naomi and Thistle are carrying things.

So for weight purposes do you mind if I switch Naomi's staff to a Hanbo?

Naomi, I am able to cover the cost of the mule and saddle (after I pawn a couple of extra daggers which I realize were overkill and not needed).

Ok, with the change in what Thistle is able to carry, I'll probably just use her.

What is a hanbo? :O

eastern weapon:Light melee weapon Hanbo essentially it's a stick. shorter and thinner than a staff, and much thinner than a club. Basically a walking stick in my mind.

I'm selecting it because of the weight...gives her a second weapon she can carry and still have the lute on her shoulder. She'd put the pack on Thistle.

Just trying to even the weight out.

Gotcha. A hanbo should be fine ;)

Headed out of town today to visit the grandkids. Will probably be able to borrow a computer there, if not I'll get a post up when I get home. But don' wait for me to move things along!

I will also be traveling tomorrow and for the whole of next week. I will still be working, and spending some time in front of the PC during the day, but when I am not working I will probably be visiting family and friends, so the pace may slow down some. It won’t stop though ;)

Hey Guthlag, sorry about the interaction between the wolves being non-existent. The grandkids weren't feeling well, so my son-in-law and wife stayed with the kid while my daughter and I went and helped my other daughter move. I'm just tired enough that I didn't have the energy to write a 'wolf' cute-meet, but I wanted o get a post up.

Hey no problem. I think what you wrote about them having met before makes sense.

I have a busy weekend ahead gang, and I will be traveling on Monday - next update might come only on Tuesday.

Have a good time :)

Thanks for the notice and good luck in your travels.

Hey Guthlag, my thought was that with three four hour shifts, the darkest shift would be the middle one, where the dark vision may prove most useful. Just a thought.

edit: does anyone need to rest eight hours straight?

"You misunderstood, Naomi. Gulag's proposal is for him and Elgrin to shift, not him and me. Otherwise, that would be silly, since his eyes are best for the dead of night and I need a continuous stretch of sleep for my spells. A weakness of the wizardly schools of magic, but nice for the bags under one's eyes." Gubble gives Naomi a smile, a nod, and then a good night.

Ok, so the italics indicate that the comment about the time of night was her thought process, she didn't say it out load.

I posted it that way because I shared my opinion in discussion, which no one commented on, instead they made a decision, ignoring what others had 'volunteered for.'

Hamish volunteered for the first watch, Elgrin volunteered for the middle watch. That's why I recommended them there. Gulag never volunteered for the middle shift, he only said you and Elgrin should be together.

Since Elgrin volunteered for the middle shift, if we were going to change it I assumed we'd discuss it with him, either in game or out and come to a decision.

I'd prefer if someone recommends something and others disagree that a proposals is put forward and we discuss/vote on it instead of ignoring the conversation and making the decision.

I realize 'setting a watch' is not a big thing. But, I'm a fan of letting people make decisions for themselves and not changing what they said they'd do with out asking them.

Edit: I realize Elgrin said 'middle or whenever' and Hamish had basically said anytime was fine with him. My post was meant to be a recommendation, if everyone agreed fine, if not I thought we would have a discussion and possibly a vote. That's why I brought the topic to discussion with my previous post so we could get input.

Hey Guthlag, my thought was that with three four hour shifts, the darkest shift would be the middle one, where the dark vision may prove most useful. Just a thought.

edit: does anyone need to rest eight hours straight?

Nope.

Sorry, been in the process of catching up with my games.

As far as watch, Jalros can take any of them.

But I haven't read the Gameplay yet. Getting to that now...

ninja'd by GM, will leave be.

We've got six people and only travel eight hours a day so a twelve hour watch would work, three four hour watches, two people and a pet each watch?

This is a good idea.

Jalros with Gubble works for me.