Hey guys, I'm Grimmy, some of you remember me. Sorry if I killed your PC's!
I used to run a lot of pulp sword n sorcery style adventures on these boards, set in the Lost Lands setting by Necromancer/Frog God Games whose motto was "New School rules with Old School feel." I was trying to do a West Marches kind of thing with multiple parties in a shared setting with an eye towards delving the legendary mega-dungeon Rappan Athuk. I had a bunch of tables running in separate threads. Some fizzled out, but a few lasted years and provided great memories.
When I look back at a lot of those failed games I think it was way too ambitious what I was trying to do. I feel bad about the ones I didn't finish. I never vanished or bailed without notice but there were times that life and mental health got in the way and I didn't finish what I started. I've been thinking now I'd like to try something small and really see it through.
I've got a module here I selected that has the elements that are nostalgic for me. It's a low level location based adventure. It has a city based investigation element linked to a mid-size dungeon crawl. The dungeon has multiple access points and follows the traditional old-school trope of getting tougher as you go deeper. The idea is that the investigating can give you a leg up versus just kicking down the door, so it's up to the party to use a mix of brains and brawn and to decide how hard to press on.
This adventure is not a pure open sandbox like I have sometimes run in the past. It has an antagonist and an inciting incident to get things going. There are some timed events that happen on a schedule. I think that makes it a strong candidate for a satisfying short play-by-post that we can complete in a thorough way that does justice to the characters we spend so much time coming up with for these things. Yet, it does require a little more pro-active player agency than a typical railroad style modern adventure. There needs to be little bit of "I think we should go talk to so and so because.." There won't always be a blinking yellow light saying "go here next" so I do need a few engaged players for this kind of game.
Time wise this is not ultra-short like a single PFS module, but as written it looks like it was meant for about three good long sessions of face-to-face tabletop play, depending on the play-style of the group of course. (I mean, when I was a kid we would take a six page module like Keep on the Borderlands and somehow play that for months.) But yeah the scope of this thing as written focuses on events that happen over the course of a week and probably levels the party from 3rd to 5th or 6th level. This is approximate because you sort of get to set your pace as I was explaining.
The adventure was written for 3.5, and I have adaptations which were done for PF1 or 5e. In either case they are the type of conversions the publishers always do which never satisfy me, so I will have to do some tweaking regardless, especially since I like to run groups of 6 rather than 4 PC's. I'm strongly leaning towards 5e, it just seems to work better for this style but I'm not set in stone.
I might pad it out a little with an overland journey to lead up to the events, and there's definitely epilogues and follow ups available, but I'd like to tentatively set my sights on about 3-5 months to see the thing through to a satisfying story resolution and take a break anyway before anyone burns out.
I'm imagining this as partly a reunion for some old players but I also really love playing with enthusiastic fresh people who maybe are finding it daunting to get into the big competitive recruitments for Paizo AP's on here. I really enjoy creative writing and I think everyone in PbP should try their best to be descriptive and evocative, but man some of these recruitments on here lately have just been full of masterpieces of backstories! It can be intimidating!
Ok so what else?
I haven't told you the name of the module because I'm paranoid about people reading spoilers. I'm sure that's silly and I'll end up telling you but this thing does have a little mystery investigation element and I'm hoping for maybe not the whole party but at least one or two players in the group to be actively interested in solving it. For the life of me I don't understand how people replay entire AP's, but to each their own!
Thematically this thing is gritty pulp fantasy sword n sorcery. That doesn't mean "rocks fall you die" or "let's not even name our characters". I do care about characters a lot, and I love players that care about their characters, but the way I set up my adventures there is a risk of PC death and sometimes you might have to run away to fight another day.
The setting is called the Lost Lands. The mood is of civilization in decline and darkness lurking in the shadows. We used to play these adventures when the setting was not even published yet, so don't let unfamiliarity stop you. It was just a hazy backdrop conjured up by references to places mentioned in the various adventure modules and somehow we made it work. Now there is a massive book with a ridiculous amount of detail available.
I usually just post a lot of info about pantheons and such in the campaign tab for people to draw upon setting lore. We used to have a lot of dialog in the recruitment thread to flesh out backgrounds and connections between characters. We can do that again. If you want to know where elves live we can look it up. It seems like it's just a good setting for classic DnD tropes overall.
Yeah, this got long... oh boy
Anyway let me know if you're game. I'll probably do this sooner or later if the timing is right and the right people are around and have room in their gaming schedule.
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This sounds like something I would enjoy. I'm interested.
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that sounds fun. :)
I just figured out 5E...well, didn't really figure it out, but plonked around in DND Beyond and learned some things.
Yeah it’s honestly not hard.
As far as I can tell wherever it’s different from PF the main difference is that it’s easier. I won’t say better, I love both. But I will say easier.
Sounds interesting. I’ve played some 5E, have generally found it simplistic but enjoyable. A fast system to learn, good for people that are new to the game.
Yeah. I was hugely invested in PF and only got into 5e for the sake of teaching the game to my brother’s kids.
It was definitely the right choice for children.
I’m not 100% set against PF for this, but 5e has been working out pretty well and I’m used to it now.
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Yes? Yes. YES!
Do it! And I'll say that 5E is better. I'm so glad that I don't have to re-do the skill point math at every level, or constantly re-check math for attacks and saving throws. And that worries over the feat tax are gone? Fugedaboutit.
Also, hey Grimmy! I have admired you from afar and I think we've been close to gaming in the same games but I'm not sure it ever quite worked out. If this WONDERFUL idea of yours finally lets us meet over dice and whiskey, then I say to lay on! =)
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It is a more elegant rule-set, that is for sure.
And I say unto you who have admired me from afar, verily I am nearer than you behold, nearer indeed than the soil is unto the blade of grass.
Boo!
I should've been more specific ; I'm interested if it's run as PF. I'm not a fan of 5e. It feels like PF for beginners, and is a bit...narrow compared to PF.
This sounds really interesting. Thank yoi for taking the time to run it. I certainly have interest if running in PF1. I haven’t looked very deeply into 5e, but might consider it for this.
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Ok so maybe it's good if people chime in with their preference for this so I can get a sense how much it tips things. I am not an edition warrior, I am still a huge fan of PF. I can see many advantages to both.
The PRD alone is such a boon.
Edited
I do like Pathfinder better, but I'll play either.
Ok.
The spark to do this was to have a bit of a reunion for some of the old gang, and I also thought it would be nice to have something low-key and low pressure for brand new players to be able to pull up a chair.
Of course with six spots at the table there's room for anyone not just those two communities.
It all depends who is around and looking. I can do it now or later.
I have several of these modules and mini-campaigns. If people like the vibe it could be done again.
The important thing to me is to keep the scope small.
I was looking for a game to join a few months back and there were some amazing recruitment threads going where the DM prep and the player submissions were at such a high level it just blew my mind. But you are also signing on for a job you have to show up to every day for the next three years or more.
And there were so many folks who didn't make it after putting so much energy into the recruitment.
It's a lot! It can be a lot.
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I hear you. You hype up so much for long recruitment, and then by the time you start half the players have lost their momentum, and life gets in the way, and those grandiose plans a GM makes never come to fruition. Your idea of a smaller scale is definitely better. You can always add more to smaller games if it goes long, but a grand adventure cut short is disappointing.
Sparks my interest and I'd like to give 5E another try. I'll have to poke a bit at the setting and see what that inspires.
Thanks for the interest. Let me know which resources you find useful as you poke.
When I was running these adventures at home and on the boards, we were all still waiting while Greg Vaughan worked on his massive setting book.
I used to upload my own homemade maps I patched together in GIMP cobbled together out of whatever had appeared in adventure modules.
Now they have more setting lore than you could get through in a lifetime of gaming.
Just look at this World Anvil page!
I know some people on here will be reluctant to play outside of Golarion.
But, as I get further with this I will be posting some regional info and hooks with a more narrow focus to make it less daunting.
I am no deep expert on the Lost Lands myself. When I've used it we always focused on a region called the Stoneheart Valley around which you find the legendary dungeons Rappan Athuk and Tsar.
Would definitely be interested in either game setting, though I'd prefer PF. Sounds like old-school tabletop fun!
5th edition goodness? I'd be down for some beautiful simplicity, thank you.
Call me intrigued!
I am currently playing Rappan Athuk here on the boards. I enjoy the setting.
I would vote (?) for PF1e; or even, PF2e.
Excuse me while I devour the information in the Links you provided!
Thank you for running; and welcome back!
Dotting for interest. Systems in order of preference PF1, 5e, PF2
I am currently running my first PBP in a long time on my Mr Clint alias. Welcome back and I hope it all goes well for you!
I would personally be interested in giving it a shot from the non-DM seat on the PBP boards. Long time 3.X player and prefer PF1. I have played 5e once, and have never done anything with PF2.
I would submit a dwarven paladin, favorite class and race since rolling up my first PC many moons ago. Once you decide on system, stats, etc I will gladly turn something in. Thanks for the interest in running!
Hi! Long time lurker, first time poster! Recent global events shut down the in person group I had been playing with, and I've been getting the itch to play some D&D again. I've been looking for a group that wouldn't be overly burdened by a PBP newbie for a while!
Anyway, I'd prefer PF, but I can play 5e as well, and I'd be happy to learn PF2!
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Hi! Long time lurker, first time poster! Recent global events shut down the in person group I had been playing with, and I've been getting the itch to play some D&D again. I've been looking for a group that wouldn't be overly burdened by a PBP newbie for a while!
Anyway, I'd prefer PF, but I can play 5e as well, and I'd be happy to learn PF2!
Its always nice to see new people get into it. Welcome!
If the game goes the way of 5e, I am curious about a gnome artificer. It looks neat.
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Wow I was just thinking about posting my notes for potential character hooks and two of them are about gnomes and artificers. That's funny.
Hey Grimmy! I was glad to see your name pop up again!
I'd definitely be interested in a 5e scenario if you decide to go that way. It would be great to game with you again.
Wow I was just thinking about posting my notes for potential character hooks and two of them are about gnomes and artificers. That's funny.
I always liked artificers back in 3.5, I was (and still am) a big lover of the Warforged race and that whole setting. I haven't played a gnome in forever and the last time I did, it was amazing. I would love the chance to do it again!
@Dorian thanks for the welcome back! I won't call it strictly a vote because in the end I have to decide what's going to work best but it is helpful to know.
@Mr Clint ditto and divine classes are very good for this setting and scenario. Not that I want to start taking character pitches yet, but I'll take this opportunity to share a theme for the sake of everyone. The idea is the continent had been conquered by Hyperboreans in ancient times who unified many diverse tribal peoples under them and had a civilization that stood for millennia before withdrawing from the continent.
Today the faiths of the old Hyperborean pantheon are a little out of fashion or in decline. Once, the Paladins and Clerics of a Triumvirate of lawful good deities had stood against a tide of dark demonic cults who served vile masters from the abyss. Today the temples have little in the coffers. The Old Enemies have vanished from the world and the citizenry think of the clergy as a source of healing or conventional blessings rather than as their last hope against unthinkable evil.
Maybe a few pious types come from time to time to sit on pews among stained glass winodows and hear fire and brimstone sermons, or visit the doddering old record keepers among their dusty scrolls. But so far, the urban public is not convinced of the urgency of mounting an effort at restoring shrines and places of power that have been claimed by the untamed wilds.
The theme of the eternal struggle between Good and Evil is not in vogue. People are concerned with health and wealth. No one really believes that any among them are secretly sworn to serve demonic masters who still seek to regain a foothold in the world.
@MOB good to see you
@KingHotTrash yes in my home game now we play 5e in the Midgard setting which has some clockwork and steampunk elements. However, in this Lost Lands scenario we are going for a more oldschool throwback classic DnD vibe. Now that being said, oldschool means different things to different people and someone will always chime in to say they remember Gygax modules with laser guns, so I'm not poo-poo'ing any ideas.
Just want to clarify that in this module the references to artificers as written are describing wizards who specialize in artifacts. I do have one player in my homegame running a 5e artificer class and I don't see any problem with it off hand but that's a topic for later.
Don't hold me to this because I will do a little tuning depending on how many PC's I accept, party make up, edition choice.
But the general idea is to do character creation at level 3.
Now, the idea of how I run DnD is this.
I don't have a series of balanced encounters that are presented in a fixed order to you.
I have a location and within it are challenges that span a range. You may run into something before you are ready. You may run into several things all at once that you could have handled separately, but not all together. You may run into something on it's turf and it's terms that you could have handled on your turf and on your terms, etc.
Victory is not assured. That's always the way I have done it.
So the main plot arc of this scenario might be technically achievable by a level 4 party if everything goes with perfect efficiency, but another party might have a different approach that involves "grinding" to level 5 or 6 before confronting the final challenges.
Now 5e does work better for this overall. There is a difference in the feel and in the math that lends itself well to this style. But it is not impossible to do with PF. Especially if the players get it and buy in.
See if you have spent years on these boards watching rules forums and FAQ's you might have absorbed conventional wisdom such as "running away is never effective in Pathfinder", which may be supported by analysis of the letter of RAW. However, in these oldschool scenarios, if you find yourself up against something nasty, you might have to loosen up and trust that the DM and the dice will adjudicate a retreat if it's what makes sense narratively.
In the case of this scenario, the parameters are reigned in somewhat because of the scope of the module. So, there's no chance of making a wrong turn and running into an ancient red dragon or something like that. And there are structures that help you make meaningful decisions about how much danger to take on, such as the old fashioned idea that the dungeon gets worse when you descend a level.
We can use knowledge rolls to assess threats as well.
So, this is not Rappan Athuk full stop, but it is me running it and a bunch of grognards writing it, so it still has that kind of uncertainty of victory that doesn't depend on your optimizing build skills as much as choices you make about what to do.
So anyway as long as the people signing on enjoy that kind of thing then it's all good.
Trust me I run games at home with kids that are not always like this and I appreciate all styles of play, but I hope this helps explain what I mean when I pitch an "oldschool" game.
Edit
Then after that we can see what happens. There are plenty of tied in modules. I just want to hit a satisfying milestone first of all and feel that we completed something we set out to do.
There's a classic one that starts from level one as well but it's even more sandboxy and a little more lengthy, including more dungeon crawling. That's why I chose to go with this one instead but depending who shows up I could start from the beginning after all I guess.
While I almost always prefer to start at first level - especially with a system like 5e that I've never tried in a pbp setting, because so much character growth can come out of the "dangerous" low level encounters - starting at 3rd could be a lot of fun too.
That said, this sounds like a blast. Old-School fun! I'll definitely be watching for the proper game announcement.
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Sounds like the kind of classic semi-sandbox that inspired Kingmaker. Love those types of games.
It really hurts suspension of disbelief when players assume "the GM wouldn't throw it against us if we couldn't possibly beat it."
Maybe it's because I'm a forever-stuck-as-GM type, but I appreciate deviation from that, and appreciate seeing a change as a potential player. Good on you!
Sounds very interesting.
I'm more familiar with PF1 but I have recently gotten into a 5E game where I am playing a Cleric/Warlock. So I am still learning 5E but either system is okay with me.
Good to see you back Grimmy. I was to join in your Valley of the Shrines game but never got set free. I'd love to try and join you again though I have no interest in 5E.
Yup, I remember trawets. That game was one of the ones I felt bad about when it died out. Later I resumed a sequel to that called City of Ashes and two of those players brought back their characters to continue the story and... same thing happened.
I don't think there was any bad blood because I communicated openly about what was going on with my seasonal workload and my mental health, but I still felt bad.
Nowadays I have a good daily yoga routine to keep me on an even keel. I suffer from bipolar disorder so that is what was challenging for me at certain times.
I still work in an industry with some stretches of really crazy hours but for the time being it has been affected a lot by covid and isn't putting me through the ringer.
But anyway, this is why I want to shoot for a module not a world spanning campaign or mega-dungeon. Can always add another chapter, right?
I followed City of Ashes as well. I can't wait to see what you put forward. We can all get burned out from time to time. Those games you ran were early in my time around here. I've played in many games but have never gotten that character into a game that went anywhere. I'm running two games now myself and am currently recovering from surgery. Don't overload yourself and you'll do fine.
While I almost always prefer to start at first level - especially with a system like 5e that I've never tried in a pbp setting, because so much character growth can come out of the "dangerous" low level encounters - starting at 3rd could be a lot of fun too.
That said, this sounds like a blast. Old-School fun! I'll definitely be watching for the proper game announcement.
I totally get what you mean, but in 5e levels one and two last about a session each in tabletop, and then third is kinda when your concept starts to get realized at all. Even if we do PF 3rd will feel plenty dangerous in the Lost Lands.
I do have an excellent classic that goes from 1st but it's pure sandbox so for that I'd need to have more players I've already gamed with who I know can handle it.
I really appreciate your enthusiasm. It seems like some of you get what I'm goin' for here.
I really do love this fantasy gaming stuff, when you get it right it is just awesome.
And yeah, I will do a separate recruitment thread once I decide if it's the right time.
There's a couple of people I'd like to hold out for if they're still around.
Dang Grimmy, really nice to have you back on the boards! :D
And I know we are in the Paizo forums but... Lately the way most people approach their PF1 builds has started to grind on me, so I do think D&D5e is a GREAT idea for this.
I have had a very basic experience with 5e so far, but from what I have see, the game seems interesting even at level 1. Also, I am going to reinforce the advantage of starting at level 1 when you are learning the system (both for players and DMs).
Bottom line, I would be very interested in something like this ;)
Ha!
The funny thing is you were one of the players I was afraid I would lose if I pitched 5e! I remember you were quite good with the PF crunch.
Anyway, 5e has it's own splat now and even the legendary optimizer Treantmonk has switched over which is really something.
Edit
From playing 5e with a bunch of old hats at PF in IRL, everyone's pretty happy.
Seems like optimizers don't have to restrain themselves as much because the math overall is reigned in, so if you enjoy evaluating options and looking for synergies you can do so and it's not going to leave the casual builder in the dust. I'm sure there are exceptions when pushed to the limits, but overall that's my impression.
But really the spirit of the thing is if you want to try swinging from chandeliers just try swinging from chandeliers, don't look at your sheet and see if you have the "swing from overhanging object" feat. We'll roll some dice and see if it works.
More like when I was kid.
It can be pretty cool. But yeah I can understand the feeling coming from PF and being like, wait.... where's the rest of the sorcerer bloodlines????
My group kinda dragged me kicking and screaming.
It works out though, you reskin things as needed etc.
So there's almost inheritantly less powergaming, then? Interesting. I've only played 5e in a couple of one-shots, with members of my former college in-person group, and that was never a concern for us.
Having had my initial reading of 5e this week (your fault...lol), it definitely seems akin to PF2e for the most part.
I admit that I have only skimmed the surface, as yet, but if it continues to be in that same mode; I concur that "power gaming" is absolutely limited because the numbers are much tighter.
I have fully enjoyed PF2e; since my immersion into it last year.
While I do hold PF1e dear to my heart; it does allow for a bit of unbalanced play, which then detracts from the actual goal: fun role playing and cool ass story-telling!
I would be willing to learn 5e; if granted an opportunity to join your game.
Thank you for broadening my gaming experience!
Yup, there's a tradeoff with everything.
At the end of the day though the people you play with matters more than which toys you use.
We'll figure something out here.
Folks that are sending me PM's, that's fine and I'll respond but for the most part I think it would be fine to post here.
This isn't the official recruitment thread so cluttering it or bloating it isn't a huge concern.
I'm planning to do a mix of old friends and new so any kind of discussion is a good chance to get a feel for what kind of player is lurking behind these avatars.
Another good thing (in my opinion) about ‘starting small’ in the PbP medium, is that you can really get by and start a game without going though the process of writing down detailed backgrounds to account for a life and experience that spawn multiple levels.
I agree with what has been said - going through a weeks long recruitment process, wherein you painstakingly detail every nook and cranny of your character build, personality, long-ass background, gear, etc etc, and in the end not getting picked, can feel... Really frustrating. I am sure we have all been there.
Also, it can be frustrating even if you get picked, because lets be honest - instances where the GM really picks up on character hooks and tidbits from character backgrounds, and incorporates them in the game are rarer and rarer.
So personally I prefer starting with a few guidelines, pointers, ideas on how you see your character now and perhaps how he/she could evolve, what might have been on his/her past, stuff like that. These are open ended, allow for inclusion in the game, allow one to elaborate on character personality as they go, in agreement with what the game setting actually is, while still giving your DM an idea of what the character can bring to the table.
Yeah. I mean I have run those kind of recruitments where I make sure everyone read painlord's guide to pbp and everything.
But, the first game I ever ran I basically accepted the first six people who applied. No one had more than a three sentence backstory. The module was 20 pages long.
Somehow we ended up playing that game for like three years. I could go to work for an 18 hour shift and come home and there would be more than a page of new posts of just the characters having banter around the campfire. They didn't even need me. lol.
The whole campaign was driven by their interpersonal dynamics. Those characters were such an endless source of entertainment to me, you have no idea.
I don't know how you make that happen exactly, just lightning in a bottle.
Alchemist it is!
Alchemist it is!
Ok you're in.
J/k I dunno what you're talkin about haha!
Alchemist it is!Ok you're in.
J/k I dunno what you're talkin about haha!
You'll get used to his mania.