Hellknight Hill: Bumblebrashers! (Inactive)

Game Master Joana

Players selected for this campaign are:

Either Gethric or Darla might consider changing to another background, since you're both local scions, if there's another that appeals to either of you. Backgrounds from the CRB are fair game, since you both already have a good reason to be in town.

Yay! Thanks, Joana (and sympathies on your selection stress!)

I'll get started fleshing out my character properly tonight - I've got a pretty clear handle on background and what he's doing and so forth, but haven't put much thought into the mechanics of it all.

Are you happy for me to utilise the rolling-for-stats method? FWIW, this is really just a "see how it works" kind of thing, so I'm not hugely attached to method if it's just one more thing you'd rather not have to deal with.

Greetings one and greetings all - thanks be to Joana for the selection, and hopefully us Bumblebrashers have a good time :)

With respect to Local Scion - I'm happy to either hold or change depending on what Profession Smith 6 ranks would prefer? Also Joana, would it be acceptable to have two Scions? or would you prefer only a single?

I've worked half-a-way through the character creation, however have noted that Joana wanted to walk through creation here. Did you have a particular presentation in mind for that?

So glad you're here, Steve! Everyone else who's checked into the recruitment thread so far wasn't selected, and I'm feeling terribly guilty for disappointing them. :(

Let's go with the dice-rolling option as listed in the book (4d6, drop lowest) and see what you end up with. If it's notably higher or lower than the standard method yields, we might go back to ABC character building to keep the party roughly on the same page.

Hey, Mark! Steve is a fellow Aussie, so say hi!

I don't mind having two local scions; I just wanted to give you the option of switching if you'd like to cover more lore ground. I guess this gives the party two chances at Breachill lore rolls so you'll know all the town secrets. Unfortunately for him, the truth seeker is in the other thread. ;)

You don't have to slow down for me, if you know what you're doing in character creation. I just still find it confusing so I didn't want to deal with going over the numbers for 40 PCs in the recruitment thread.

I'm not really sure why I get point buy but balk at ABC. I think it's because if I want to make, say, a sorcerer, I know I can buy my Cha up to 18, then pick my next most desired stat and my next and see how high I can get them, but with the new method, I can't go in order of priority but have to work in several steps and figure out which abilities I can raise when.

Just let me know, I guess, where your free boosts are going at which level so I can follow along.

Thank you for wanting to run two tables. I'm really happy to be selected. Will have the framework for the character drawn up later today.

Did you mean dice rolling for all of us, or just Steve since he asked about it? (My personal preference would be the standard method from the book for my character, but I don't mind others rolling the dice.)

Edit: just to say that I would go along with dice rolling, if that's what you/we want for the entire group.

Hey, Mark! Steve is a fellow Aussie, so say hi!

Heh - I can go one better and even break out a g'day :P

G'day Steve! - I am currently frigidly frozen down/up in our nation's capital.

I kinda like the ABC stat gen, so will walk through it later tonight (when I've got my PDFs open and ready) and make sure to show the trail of crumbs for each of the stats.

Did you mean dice rolling for all of us, or just Steve since he asked about it? (My personal preference would be the standard method from the book for my character, but I don't mind others rolling the dice.)

No, not at all. Steve, in particular, wanted to try the optional dice-rolling method (he PMed me about it earlier), but no one else has to do it.

Hi folks! Checking in briefly before heading off to bed.

First, thank you Joana for selecting me! I'm also excited to be playing with a group of new players, several of whom I recognize from my 3+ years on these forums. I'm pretty sure Mark's the only one I've played with previously (currently piratin' throughout Freeport and the Shackles) and I look forward to learning the new rules with you all.

To be honest, I created my submission mainly from the Hellknight Hill Player's Guide, so her backstory is heavily dependent on the Local Scion background. While I have the 2E CRB pdf, I'm getting a hard copy delivered later today, so I'll sit back and flip through the bard stuff to see if there's another background I might switch to.

I'm not really sure why I get point buy but balk at ABC. I think it's because if I want to make, say, a sorcerer, I know I can buy my Cha up to 18, then pick my next most desired stat and my next and see how high I can get them, but with the new method, I can't go in order of priority but have to work in several steps and figure out which abilities I can raise when.

Weird that I post in this thread before the one that I am actually in, but an Android app called Pathbuilder 2E might give you a hand with ability bonus distributing. I find it pretty neat.

Joana wrote:

Hey, Mark! Steve is a fellow Aussie, so say hi!

Heh - I can go one better and even break out a g'day :P

G'day Steve! - I am currently frigidly frozen down/up in our nation's capital.

I kinda like the ABC stat gen, so will walk through it later tonight (when I've got my PDFs open and ready) and make sure to show the trail of crumbs for each of the stats.

G'day Mark. Quiet, little Adelaide here - seems cold to me, but we have nothing on Canberra. :p

Nothing wrong with the spiritual home of Farmer's Union, the Balfour's custard tart and Giant Twins. When a wee lad I was also partial to a can of Fruita... though I realise my folly in older age.

Iff wrote:

Did you mean dice rolling for all of us, or just Steve since he asked about it? (My personal preference would be the standard method from the book for my character, but I don't mind others rolling the dice.)

No, not at all. Steve, in particular, wanted to try the optional dice-rolling method (he PMed me about it earlier), but no one else has to do it.

Just a comment on that - I know it bugs some people and this was really just an experiment (my instinct is that stat discrepancies between PCs in PF2 won't matter as much as in PF1 and I'd kind of like to see if that's true). If the other players would rather I go with ABC, I'd be happy to go that route too. (I'm just something of an old fuddy-duddy - I find the injection of some randomness spurs my character concept somewhat. It's hardly essential though).

I'll roll them up when I get home to begin thinking, but please do let me know if any of you would rather I play a bit more normal. :/

Rolls:
4d6 - 3 ⇒ (3, 4, 3, 5) - 3 = 12
4d6 - 4 ⇒ (4, 4, 5, 6) - 4 = 15
4d6 - 3 ⇒ (3, 4, 3, 4) - 3 = 11
4d6 - 1 ⇒ (6, 5, 5, 1) - 1 = 16
4d6 - 2 ⇒ (2, 2, 2, 6) - 2 = 10
4d6 - 3 ⇒ (4, 3, 5, 5) - 3 = 14

That gives me a total stat array of 82 including the two boosts to come (although the two odd numbers are probably of no effect, so I guess it's effectively 80).

Compared to the ABC method of 78.

My Ancestry is human which grants me one free boost (to dexterity, which will receive the 16 roll, ending at 18).

Background is Hellknight Historian which will grant a boost to intelligence (I'll allocate the 12 there, ending at 14).

That will give me:

Str - 14
Dex - 18
Con - 15
Int - 14
Wis - 10
Cha - 11

Just for fun, I'll go through the ABC process:

Interesting - it didn't make a lot of difference - by rolling I could concentrate my scores a little more.

Let me know, Joana. I'll continue using the rolled numbers but, to be honest, I'd be just as happy with these "normal" ABC stats if you want to keep the experimental stuff as minimal as possible. It didn't seem to matter to me in PF2 the way it does in other games.

Steve Geddes's PC - Gellius Tauranor of a famous trading family in Correntyn. Here are the choices I've made during character generation. I'll begin populating his profile shortly.

Ancestry - Human
Ability boost to Dexterity.
Languages – Taldane, Dwarvish, Infernal (Uncommon)
Skilled Heritage - Lore (Castellan)
Ancestry Feat – Natural Ambition granting a 1st Level Fighter Feat – Double Slice

Background – Hellknight Historian
Ability boost to Intelligence.
Trained in Society Skill
Trained in Lore (Architecture)
Courtly Graces Skill Feat

Class - Fighter
Trained in Acrobatics
Trained in Stealth
Trained in Athletics
Trained in Arcana
Trained in Occultism
Trained in Religion
Feat – Exacting Strike

The only "ask your DM" things I took were:

1. Infernal (Uncommon) as a language. He was from a Hellknight Order before basically dropping out to come here and try to found a NG equivalent. Infernal seemed to be an obvious side effect of his training with Hellknights. Let me know what you think.

2. I took a second Lore skill - Castellan as it kind of ties in with the direction he's looking to go. Namely, finding someone to be the head of this new order he plans to found in the Citadel while Gellius keeps the castle and estate running in the background. This is presumably going to be mainly useful during Downtime. Let me know if this sounds okay.

I also took a bunch of "knowledge" skills but he still has stealth, acrobatics, athletics, so I don't think he's going to be useless - just more bookish than the average fighter.

Here's the basic choices for my goblin character, and the thought process behind it. My primary choice still to be made is between Cloistered Cleric and Warpriest. We have a fighter and a rogue already, and we're a bit light on casters. That means I'm drawn more to Cloistered cleric. The lack of armor is a bit scary (especially when I view her as being the slightest bit careless), but I think that's manageable. I want a good Wis and Cha, so I wouldn't have a lot of points to put in Str/Dex anyway for melee.

Stats
- I want Wis 16 and Cha 14. The rest should go to Dex for defenses and some others to round out the character.
Ancestry: +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, +2 Wis.
Background: +2 Dex, +2 Wis
Class: +2 Wis
Free: +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha.
Result: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 14.

Ancestry choices
For my heritage, I initially looked at Charhide, to tie in with the Haunting Vision background. However, it seems more fitting to have fire be something of a weakness for her, rather than something she's learned to deal with. Instead, I'll go with Razortooth goblin, giving me a decent backup weapon that works with my high Dexterity.
For my ancestry feat, I'll pick Goblin lore. I like having a good selection of skills, and having Goblin Lore seems especially fitting for the adventure we're going on.

Background
No choices here, besides stats. I get Trained in Religion and Dahak Lore. (Religion overlaps with the skill Training from cleric, which means I'll have an extra free choice at that time). Also, I get the Student of the Canon skill feat.

Class
I had already picked Desna as a deity, and decided on cloistered cleric. This gives me Acrobatics, a healing font (3/day), and Domain Initiate. Desna gives a choice of four domains, with focus spells of various nature. At this moment, I'm drawn to the dream domain which gives the Sweet dream focus spell.

Skills
So far, I'm trained in Nature, Stealth, Goblin Lore, Religion, Dahak Lore, and Acrobatics. To round out the list, I have four extra choices. I'd like to pick up Medicine and Diplomacy. Craft seems worthwhile as well. That leaves one open, depending on what we're lacking as a group. I could see Deception and Intimidation working, as might Thievery, or additional Lore skills.

Spells
I can swap spells around on a daily basis, but it seems useful to have a list of go-to spells for getting a grip on the character.
Cantrips (5): Daze, Divine Lance, Guidance, Light, Prestidigitation, Shield, Stabilize.
1st level (2): Bless, Fear, Sleep, Ray of enfeeblement, Heal (free from healing font), Create water (possibly on scroll, due to her relation with fire)

Thoughts?

Str: 8, Dex: 18, Con: 14, Int: 12, Wis: 12, Cha: 14

Skills: Stealth, Thievery, Crafting, Lore: Breachill, Deception, Diplomacy, Society, Survival, 4 more...

Looks like we're shaping up to be a pretty stealthy / Dex focused lot. Gethric will be focusing on going toe to toe in melee if Aronida wanted to go ranged? - or we can have three dexterous frontliners :)

Thanks for having me GM! I'll work on the character build in a couple hours.

Aronida was planning on archery, which works since having at least one ranged fighter is probably a good idea.

Still getting used to the way things work - I will be amending my PC slightly. Turns out exacting strike doesn't work so well with TWF (I missed the significance of the press trait).

I suspect I'll swap out my Human Ancestry feat (which gave me an extra class feat) and actually take a general feat instead.

Sorry about that - I'll live with my choices once we get going, but there are some new traps to avoid and some keywords to internalise. :)

It feels to me that there's a good mix of choice/restrictions. Having chosen TWF there's kind of an "obvious" class feat and then lots of possibilities for where to go next. Consequently, I feel like I could build two similar fighters and end up with them feeling quite different.

Joana, I appreciate you're probably way ahead of me, but in reading the various ways Gellius may develop, it seems to me that knowing whether we critically succeed or just succeed is going to be significant and result in quite a delay in the slower, online format. I wonder if for PBP it's going to become standard to lift the curtain a little and provide the target number (both DCs and AC) from time to time. Certainly for attacks - unless the DM is going to take on the rolling of critical damage which will bring it's own memory problems given weapons have varying critical effects.

Excellent good Ever_Anon - I agree that having at least one bow savant would be a good mix.

Feels strange... but I think Gethric's going to be unarmored... which feels wrong to me but isn't a significant disadvantage by the rules.

I finished filling out my profile. Since our GM mentioned being interested in working through the character creation process together, in this post I've gone through it step by step. I'm only listing decisions here, (for example, in the 'record class features' step I've only listed skills/starting feat). The 'set in stone' stuff can be viewed in the profile. It's still long and overly detailed, so I'm spoilering it.

Joana, I've set up my profile in a way that makes sense to me, but if you'd prefer a different format, have any questions, or just notice something I messed up, please let me know.

My hard copy of the CRB was delivered about an hour ago and I'm taking another look at things. I think now I might drop the Local Scion background but keep Darla a Breachill citizen, maybe by taking the Barkeep background instead; I wasn't overly fond of the crafting stuff in Local Scion to begin with.

Still plugging along with character creation, and I hope to post something more substantial by day's end.

@Joana: Is it OK to dot-and-delete in Gameplay so this game will show up in our lists of other games?

@Joana: Is it OK to dot-and-delete in Gameplay so this game will show up in our lists of other games?

I don't have a Gameplay thread open yet, but I hope to in an hour or two. At that point, yes, dot and delete.

Hi Joana

Final tweak done - my profile should be complete now barring backstory, which is in process and likely to go up over the weekend. I'm also mulling over how best to track bulk and so on, but it's pretty much ready to go. :)

As I mentioned, I changed out Natural Ambition as my Ancestry Heritage and took General Training instead - which gave me Uncanny Acumen and expert training in Will Saves.

I then took Double Slice instead of Exacting Strike for my 1st level class feat - likely to be my main attack style.

Gameplay thread is now open for dotting! Sorry for the delay.

I think now I might drop the Local Scion background but keep Darla a Breachill citizen, maybe by taking the Barkeep background instead; I wasn't overly fond of the crafting stuff in Local Scion to begin with.

Sounds great.

Steve, access to Infernal is fine.

I'll take a look at the mechanics of the characters tomorrow -- honestly less to check up on you than to go over it for my own benefit. Hopefully if I walk through all of your PCs, I'll feel more confident about making one myself. :)

Seeing your comment to Steve reminds me that I also wanted to take Infernal.

My reasoning is that it's a language 'prevalent in your region', aka Cheliax, (which has Infernal listed as one of its two regional languages). However if that doesn't work for you I can take Gnomish instead.

Right... I think Gethric is squared away now. Only bit that I haven't potentially 'finished' is a last few equipment choices, though the major ones are in there.

it's really nice to see the whole group shaping up like this. I've made an alias for my character. Picking a portrait wasn't easy, but this wil have to do.

I've set up Revka's profile with her stat block. Everything should be done, including purchases. Besides that, I've added some personality quirks. Full background still to be done.

I don't want everyone to think I'm slacking with my character creation...it's just that there are so many choices and I don't want to make any big mistakes along the way.

I still have to pick spells and equipment, plus a few choices I'm dithering on (ancestry feat, languages, and final trained skill choice). Below is a work-up of what I have decided firmly on:

DARLA USKWOLD

ANCESTRY
Human (Taldan)
HP 8; Size Medium; Speed 25; 2 free Ability Boosts (Dex, Cha); Languages Common, 2 more (Dwarven, Elven, Halfling?); Traits Human, Humanoid; Heritage Versatile Heritage—general feat (Incredible Initiative); Ancestry Feat ???

BACKGROUND (Barkeep)
Ability Boosts: Cha, 1 more (Dex)
Skills: Diplomacy, Lore (Alcohol)
Skill Feat: Hobnobber

CLASS (Bard)
Key Ability Cha; HP 8; Initial Proficiences: Perception (E), Fort (T), Ref (T), Will (E)
Skills: Occultism (T), Performance (T), 4+1 add’l.
Attacks: Simple Weapons (T), longsword (T), rapier (T), sap (T), shortbow (T), shortsword (T), whip (T), unarmed attack (T)
Defenses: light armor (T), unarmored combat (T)
Spells: occult spells (T), occult spell DCs (T)
Spell Repertoire: 5 cantrips, 2 1st-level
Composition Spells: counter performance, inspire courage (cantrip)
Muse: Maestro (add Lingering Composition feat, soothe to spell repertoire)
4 free ability boosts: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha
FINAL ABILITY SCORES: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 18

COLLECTED TRAINED SKILLS:
Diplomacy (background)
Lore (Alcohol) (background)
Occultism (class)
Performance (class)
1. Acrobatics
2. Deception
3. Society
4. Stealth
Int Thievery? Athletics?

Aronida and Gethric have Thievery covered - so don't feel a need to go there unless you really want to. Another Lore maybe?

Seeing as how Aronida's got Lore: Halfling, I might change up Gethric's to a different topic... something to reflect the small business / shopworking background.

Joana - would 'Lore: Business' be an acceptable choice?

Well... there are indeed a few modifiers and conditional bits and pieces to be aware of. Gethric will be Feint-ing quite a bit in combat, which affects his follow on rolls. His weapon has critical modifiers as well, plus extra damage from sneak attack, etc.

Seeing your comment to Steve reminds me that I also wanted to take Infernal.

My reasoning is that it's a language 'prevalent in your region', aka Cheliax, (which has Infernal listed as one of its two regional languages).

Are you getting that from Pathfinder Wiki? I thought it might have been in the Lost Omens chapter in the CRB, but I'm not seeing it there. I suppose we'll have to wait for the World Guide to ship to know if that's still canon.

Yes, I'll say you have access from your background in Cheliax and evading Hellknights.

Joana, I appreciate you're probably way ahead of me, but in reading the various ways Gellius may develop, it seems to me that knowing whether we critically succeed or just succeed is going to be significant and result in quite a delay in the slower, online format.

Yes, that's one of the things that has me concerned about how 2e will run in PbP. There seems to be more interactivity between turns, which is great for keeping interest around a RL table (as opposed to, "Okay, I'm going to watch TV, call me when it's my turn again") but which could bog things down in PbP. I'm hoping we run into some workarounds and new conventions that will prove useful.

Mark's combat block is ... wow, wordy. But it is at least clear, which we may need as we get used to the new system. After a while, maybe we'll find some ways to abbreviate without losing the clarity.

It is dense isn't it? - I don't mind it, and at least the three actions a turn rule means that it shouldn't get that much worse as levels go on...

Though I echo Gellius' suggestion of including the AC / Perception DC of our foes so that we can determine critical successes ourselves during active combat and take some of the edge off you as the DM.

Don't worry about it, Darla. I recognize this from making my first PFS character. I think humans are the worst 'offender' in this regards, because their heritage and first ancestry feat give a lot of options.

I don't think the combat actions block is too bad. Part of that is information that will eventually become known by heart (the effect of Deception, and that it is compared to target Perception DC). Part is the conditional damage. That might be done just a bit clearer I think, by using the dice tags.

Strike (1): Fork attack: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (15) + 7 = 22, damage: 1d4 + 1 ⇒ (1) + 1 = 2.
(on crit, add deadly for: 1d6 ⇒ 6, flat-footed, add sneak for: 1d6 + 1 ⇒ (4) + 1 = 5.)

If possible, I would like to avoid us knowing ACs and DCs in advance. It's just part of the charm to figure that out during the fight, and tweak tactics based on the information you learn.

Aronida wrote:

My reasoning is that it's a language 'prevalent in your region', aka Cheliax, (which has Infernal listed as one of its two regional languages).

Are you getting that from Pathfinder Wiki?

*smacks forehead* Yep, I got it from the Wiki and it didn't even occur to me that might not be canon anymore. Thanks for letting me take it anyway!

Also, if anyone's curious, I have already run through a short PFS quest using 2E rules. The gameplay thread is here.

Reading through it might give an idea of how the Exploration/Encounter stuff works. Or at least how we thought it worked.

Just to let you guys know, there is a minor mistake in the gazetteer in the Player's Guide, which James Jacobs has confirmed. Number 8, Monument Circle, is described as six deep wells around a statue of Lamond Breachton, but as pictured on the same page and depicted on the map, it's actually six water towers around a fountain. Water can be freely pumped up from Breach Creek at each tower for the use of the citizenry.

If anyone objects to Steve using his rolled stats (which are slightly higher than the ABC method yields), please PM me. He has said that he doesn't mind either way, and any objection will remain anonymous. :)

Good call. :)

Lore: Castellan is approved. (I presume it would cover things like upkeep and maintenance and defenses and such? My initial thought was that Castellan was a bad guy in Classic Who. ;)

Lore: Business seems a little broad. Maybe Lore: Small Business, so it would cover the process of running a small shop but not heading a multinational conglomerate? Or Lore: Food Service to cover cooking for the general public? (And, yeah, Lord Business was the bad guy in The Lego Movie, while we're at it.)

Happy with Lore: Small Business :)

Lore: Castellan is approved. (I presume it would cover things like upkeep and maintenance and defenses and such? My initial thought was that Castellan was a bad guy in Classic Who. ;)

I think also maintenance of “the estate” - Gellius has big, idealistic goals for founding a self-reliant order of champions for the common folk centred on the citadel. First step is clearing it out, getting the town’s blessing and seeking a charismatic Lord or Lady of the manor. Down the track though, he’d picture working the land around the castle. (Fully appreciate it could well be beyond the scope of the downtime allowed by the AP - Especially book,one! He thinks big though.)

I Am Not A-Mused....

I'm still picking equipment and spells, but I'm also building ideas for Darla's revised background. One of the spells available to bards is summon fey, and that got me to thinking that maybe Darla's muse is a fey creature that lives near Breachill. Does the adventure contain a fey creature that might be appropriate for Darla's muse?

In another thread, a poster has listed some upcoming errata mentioned in the Pathfinder Friday stream.

Couple of bugs they wanted to address. They will be releasing a few official updates soon-- focusing on the critical stuff, little stuff will probably be held off on so as to not overload us.

Character sheet folio has several corrections that didn't get touched in the CRB.

1) Humans are supposed to have one more language. Common+Bonus+INT.
2) Whatever proficiency you have in simple weapons is also what you should have in unarmed, including the wizard. (Monk is obviously the exception as they are better in unarmed.)
3) Ki spells cue off Wisdom for Monk.
4) Sorcerer is missing a 17th level Resolve class feature, just the same as the wizard. Master will save, critical success etc.
5) WIZARDS DON'T GET A 1ST LEVEL CLASS FEAT. Not by default, at least. No other spellcaster gets 1st level class feat. They only get them for being universalist
6) Adventure's pack has the wrong bulk. It is actually only 1 bulk.
7) Heroic Recovery takes you to 0 hit points, not 1. (The death and dying section seemed to be wrong here.)

Re providing DCs/ACs in gameplay, Mark Seifter has said that DCs should not be provided for PCs with Assurance so they know for sure if they should roll or take 10+proficiency. As Iff says, one eventually gets an idea of what the bad guy's AC is just by seeing what misses and hits over a round or two of combat. Let's start out being sticklers for the rules and see what we can streamline as we go.

I don't think the combat actions block is too bad. Part of that is information that will eventually become known by heart (the effect of Deception, and that it is compared to target Perception DC). Part is the conditional damage. That might be done just a bit clearer I think, by using the dice tags.

Strike (1): Fork attack: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (2) + 7 = 9, damage: 1d4 + 1 ⇒ (2) + 1 = 3.
(on crit, add deadly for: 1d6 ⇒ 5, flat-footed, add sneak for: 1d6 + 1 ⇒ (1) + 1 = 2)

If you're not dead set on rolling all your own dice, you could just do this:

Stike 1: Fork attack: 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (19) + 7 = 26, damage: 1d4 + 1 ⇒ (4) + 1 = 5

and put Filcher's fork Deadly 1d6; flat-footed: sneak attack 1d6+1 someone on the post, and I could roll the conditional dice when they apply.