Legacies (Inactive)

Game Master Thron

Probably, I also recall hearing Faerun got really dumb after 4e. I don't know if they fixed it in 5e or not...

I've had some bad tabletop game experiences, and almost all of them were based in Faerun. It's left a very bad impression on me (though I'm aware it wasn't necessarily the setting's fault, but still). I have to vote a hard no to FR.

Sure, if a Golarion change is easy for you, SGTM.

I *probably* won't play a Dragonborn, but if someone does...*how* did they recently arrive? Do the Dragonborn even know?

I'd also be fine with playing on a version of Golarion-gamma where there have always been dragonborn, and where Tiamat or whoever is needed coexist with the Golarion gods, if that's easier.

And oh, I just looked at www.dndbeyond.com/races and--Great Chaldira Zuzaristan--there are a LOT of playable races (including ones specific to Eberron and (even) Ravnica (which is a world that started in Magic The Gathering))! Dunno if you're ready to say, but when you are let us know what (not) to consider.

Classes don't seem to have exploded so much, but there are two that aren't in the PHB.

I've warmed up to trying 5e. As for the setting, I'm with Stal; in the long run, I think keeping things on Golarion would be easiest. After all, we're all quite familiar with the world. As for the appearance of the Dragonborn, I imagine we can just do what Paizo does when they introduce a new ancestry and pretend that they've always existed.

Yeah, let's stick to Golarion.

Why not just sub out Nagaji with Dragonborn?

They are the same thing essentially, and the Nagaji (now Dragonborn) are native to Tian Xia, so it wouldn't be unusual for there to be very few of them in Avistan or Garund.

To me, it makes total sense that the dragon empires would be full of dragonborn...

-looks at races-

(o_o)

Can I be a tortle? Pweeeease Thron, pweeeeease? Y(^.^)Y

-tries to be cute-

@Everyone: As an aside, the following is completely independent of our apparent plans to try D&D 5e.

So I've been thinking...

While there was some disagreement about the implementation, I feel that Legacies had a lot of good ideas. I also believe that most of us really love the cast of characters we've developed over the last four years. With Runelords currently hitting another emotional high (Ameiko's return and, at least from her end, Jeevika finally starting to feel friendship with the other Rangers) and offering the mother of all sequel hooks (our characters releasing Alaznist), I truly think that it'd be great to continue the story in some capacity.

And then it hit me like a full-round attack from Zoli: there's a perfect way to do that!

Return of the Runelords!

In summary, I'm offering to run this campaign for the Legacies crew; Thron, if you accept, you would join as a PC.

I understand that I've said some things about me DMing, but to be honest, my last real attempt was over five years ago when I was much busier than I am now. Additionally, I've heard that Return is one of Paizo's best offerings; our version would also have a ton of additional material I could use to supplement the story.

So anyone interested?

I would love to play that.

Edit: And also the 5e thing.

I would totally be down. Would it be a true sequel to our Rise? Essentially Legaxy Redux?

It would be a true sequel to our Rise campaign. A Legacies Redux. Seriously, it's both hilarious and eerie how well the canon version of Return could be a proper sequel to our Runelords. Obviously, I'd make a few tweaks; for example, Return is normally only like a decade later. I liked how Legacies was a generation (25 years) later.

I think I’d rather pursue this option. Save the 5E thing for a rainy day.

So...any character rule stipulations? Limits on Legacy options? Are we open to do some background alterations to account for the new continuity?

I'm thinking we use the Legacies character creation guidelines except the PCs start at Level 2 (with the appropriate wealth by level) since we're starting in Book 1. If anyone recommends any changes, I'm open to suggestions.

Why not Level 1? Well, I find Level 1 to be a bit too prone to freak deaths. Otherwise, we'll be leveling at the designated points indicated in the AP.

Background alterations are cool. That said, I'd like to keep some of the old Legacies background as our canon (e.g. Classy became a goddess, Sabby is her herald, Jeevika killed Treerazer, Argor is next in line to be Primarch of Absalom, etc.), but I'm flexible.

@Stal: If you join us, I really, really, really recommend reprising Kallie. From what I've read, there's some excellent material involving Sorshen in Return. Another character is totally cool, but Kallie would fit the campaign like a glove.

Ha, take a couple days to think through if I'm willing to give 5e another try and suddenly we're returning to runelords :-)

I'm certainly up for that :-)

(I'm planning on reprising Jaya, but if GM juggling makes party balance iffy, I'm happy to either change her up or reroll)

Can you repost the character creation options as you want them now? I'll have to think about whether I'm playing Embreth or something else.

I also want to read the Return player's guide before I make anything.

My first question as I'm reading the player's guide - Who recovered the sihderon thingy from Shattered Star in our world? Was that the O.G. RotRL crew after they defeat Karzoug? A combination of them and the Freaks? Some other heroes entirely?

@Jelani: For now, let's pretend that Shattered Star was resolved by a combination of the Freaks and the Rangers. Naturally, given their collective strength, I imagine it was very brief adventure.

I'll just post the character guidelines here. Once again, credit to Thron for providing the basis from either the original Legacies or Rise.

Starting Level: Level 2. Return of the Runelords covers Levels 1-20, so starting at Level 2 a little early likely won't unbalance anything.

Stats: 20 Point Buy.

Classes: All Paizo classes, archetypes, and books are allowed. No Third Party material.

HP: Max HP for Level 1. Half + 1 for every Level afterward. This standard applies for PCs and any class feature companions they might have.

Drawbacks: I will be allowing Drawbacks.

Traits: Two with one being a campaign trait from the Return of the Runelords Player's Guide. With a drawback, you have the potential for three traits total.

Wealth: 1,000 gp plus a Legacy Item up to 25,000 gp (e.g. Galatea's Ring of Invisibility).

Background Skills

Legacy: Similar to the first Legacies, I would also like each new character to have a connection to a prior PC (e.g. Zoli, Jeeves, Argor) or major NPC (e.g. Auronee, Elthariel).

Don't worry too much about healing. Similar to Placidus from Apollonia, Galatea will be accompanying the group.

Also, I could see Embreth getting accidentally cloned.

Edit: I'm going to wait until we see what everyone else is doing before I decide I guess.

Cool!! I'm still excited to try 5e again at some point, but I love the idea of CDL leading Return as a sequel (and Thron getting to play in it)...and I think starting one OR the other is probably a good idea for me.

CDL, I know you said No Third Party...but have you ever looked into Spheres of Power and Spheres of Might? It's my new favorite 3rd party ruleset. It started with Spheres of Power, as an alternate (non-Vancian) Magic system that's designed to be able to accomodate a very wide range of character concepts. It lets you choose various one or many schools to focus on (like telekinesis, protection, warp(teleport), time), and various drawbacks that limit your casting (from standards like divine focus, verbal, somatic, and material components, to ones like addictive casting, diagram magic, painful casting, etc.)...where the more drawbacks you select, the more powerful your magic can be. I don't think it's more powerful than standard Paizo magic, but it's a distinctly non-Vancian system that lets you explore a wider range of concepts. (One of the best recommendations I've heard of it is "if you want to have a Cleric of the God of Illusions, or a Space-Warping Teleportation Mage, you can build it have have on-theme, level-appropriate abilities from L1."

As someone who likes adding more utility to martials, I particularly like the Spheres of Might system (which came second, but one can adopt one, the other, or both). Unlike Path of War (which I like too...but which admittedly makes martials feel a bit more like a kind of caster, and which has the potential to significantly increase martial damage...especially with high point buys) this really is built to allow a range of martial concepts, e.g. an effective tank who really is able to punish foes for ignoring them (a classic problem with many defensive Pathfinder builds) to barroom brawlers who specialize in improvised weapons and are always at their best when they are a bit tipsy, to blacksmiths who improve the efficacy of everyone's gear. There are many out of combat abilities to choose from, related to scouting, stealth, athletics, and even setting traps.

As with any game, I think we should only use systems the DM is interested in...but if you're interested in Spheres of Might (or both Might and Power) I really encourage them. ;-)

I too, am curious what others are planning on rolling with. My current assumptions:

Stalwart = Kallie (Enchantment Caster)
CDL = Galatea (sounds like healing now?)

After reading the players guide, I kinda chuckled at the idea of Kallie being the accidental clone into Sorshen. Hehehe

As for me...I’m tempted to play someone’s twin. Mechanically, I...kinda wanna play a necromancer. Not a maniacal out of control “Death to the Living” type, but a “The spirit is gone. Why let the body go to waste when I can have it protect us?” Line of thought. Of course, the character’s total crassness and lack of empathy towards the emotional side of it tends them to be a bit...[Dr. Evil Impression]”eeeviiil.”[/Dr. Evil Impression]

To that end, if characters stay as they are, I think this best fit would be as Abasi’s twin brother. And instead of twin younger sisters, Bethania would be their older sibling, and it would have been the birth of Abasi and (insert name here) that resulted in Imrizade’s demise. Could be a driving factor in my character’s secret study into the dark arts, too.

But...I’ve also been itching to play a Druid. Shapeshifting summoner and sneak style. “Oh...look at that mouse over there squeezing. What the...OH BY GORRUM’S CODPIECE A T-REX!!!”

@Gyr: I've heard many good things about Spheres, but I would rather not implement a system with which I have minimal familiarity. Also, I believe Thron is shelving any 5e adventures for a rainy day.

@Thron: Galatea will be similar to the original Legacies: melee healer and secret agent. However, as a DMPC, she'll mostly be hanging back and supporting you all: the real heroes. I really like how Jelani plays Placidus, so that's how I intend to play Gali.

@Everyone: If you have any proposals for houserules, feel free to air them. Right now, I'm thinking of:

1) Removing Firing into Melee penalties like Starfinder does, essentially removing Precise Shot from the game.
2) Implementing Overclocked Spells.
3) Gating Blood Money behind a future quest.

After reading the players guide, I kinda chuckled at the idea of Kallie being the accidental clone into Sorshen. Hehehe

You know, that's not a bad idea... except what about this for a twist, considering where she was birthed: Her upper half looks like Sorshen!

You know, that's not a bad idea... except what about this for a twist, considering where she was birthed: Her upper half looks like Sorshen!

That's a cool idea. Approved.

@Everyone: It appears that we have everyone aboard, so I will give you all some time to get your ducks in a row.

Regarding campaign traits, I will be defining the "Once per adventure" part as once per major story event (e.g. The Giant Siege of Sandpoint, each individual expedition into a different area of the Runeforge, every separate Pathfinder Society scenario in Absalom Aberrations, and so forth).

Re:Spheres, I figured that would be the thing that made the most sense. Just thought I'd ask! ;-)

Re:5E, yes, I understand and am grateful that we're not talking about starting both of these at once. I'd have been stretched to do both, and would've been excrutiating to choose! ;-)

For my character, I'll read the Player's Guide and think about the various legacies to draw from again, and decide if I'm still doing an Occultist Abasi, or someone completely different.

Whether I do or not, Thron, you're certainly welcome to be Abasi's twin. We may end up with other siblings in play as well. Who knows?

As far as necromancy, I think the Paizo canon is that "undeath is objectively speaking, an abomination, and everyone knows this". Are you proposing that we change the canon in this game (e.g. to "some folks get squeamish about it, but there's nothing evil per se about animating a corpse")? Or proposing we build a party that's willing to work with someone who desecrates the dead in their quest for power?

As far as house rules, I'm fine with whatever. I tend to think the Elephant in the Playground feat tax rules are reasonable.

Actually, Geb is quite a heavily traded with nation in part due to its mindless undead workforce. So I feel a case could be made for some necromancers in the world who see utilizing the remains of creatures in a way similar to animating objects.

Sure, others may look on it with disgust and disdain. May even refuse them or their creations entry in certain places (if it is known). But there are examples in Golarion already of undead and living coexisting and even doing business.

But like I said, I’m not married to the idea. Also have plenty of concepts I’d enjoy. Depends what everyone else makes and is fine with.

I would argue against a necromancer, because undead is evil, and this isn't an evil game. If you want something like that, be a spiritualist maybe?

If Kallie wants to be the clone, that's fine, I'll do a different trait.

ALright, maybe it's just late night delerium, but right now I'm strongly considering picking up on Cwethan's idea of Shalelu's scaleheart daughter, raised with the Black Arrows.

(unless you still want it, Cwethan)

We'll see how I feel tomorrow. ;-)

Ok, necromancer is out the window.

In its place, is a vanilla druid. Going to focus on summoning, but is prepared to be a bit rough and tumble if need be. Personality I’m still a bit nebulous on. Depends what others play and where I can spot fun interactions.

As for campaign trait - I went with Time Lost.

Some core bits, though, that are already set up:
- Will be a an ex-adventurer of Chelaxian descent whose group was decimated in the Mwangi Jungle. After several years there, he became quite comfortable with the lifestyle. Was a young druid’s adept when he started, but used what he learned from both his late Master and what he’s taught himself to become a Druid on his own.

- He will be a bit more civilized than the common Druid. While he survived several years in isolation and solitude, deep down he has some culture to him.

- He has a baby T-Rex that he stole from a clutch of eggs and hatched and has been raising as a guardian. Has bought it some armor too!

I have a planned connection to an Legacy PC, but he is not like a direct descendant if anyone.

So we have a druid, an oracle, an arcanist and an enchanter?

Hmmm, looks like we need some beef. I really want to try my brown fur arcanist, but it looks like that might not be the best choice in this group.

What are you thinking for class or general adventuring role, Gyr?

Also, CDL, can we call them the Varisian Rangers instead of the Sihedron Heroes? Maybe anyone from Freaks who helped out in Shattered Star could have joined the Rangers too. It's not like they have an exclusivity contract with the Pathfinder Society or anything.

What does a brown fur arcanist specialize in?

And don’t be doubting my beefiness. I have 21 AC and my Rex has 23. I could always tweak just a few things and make my Druid a bruiser.

Basically you talked about cribbing my idea with your druid (without knowing it), but I didn't want to say anything. :P

My concept is a mage who focuses completely on polymorph and buffing spells. Basically the "turn into a mouse, sneak in and then turn into a t-rex thing". The archetype doesn't change a whole lot, but it gives these:

At 3rd level, the brown-fur transmuter learns to harness the power of her magic to empower her transmutations. Whenever the brown-fur transmuter casts a transmutation spell using one of her arcanist spell slots, she can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir as a free action to bolster the spell. If the spell grants a bonus to an ability score, the bonus then increases by 2. If it grants a bonus to more than one ability score, only one of the ability scores gains this bonus. The brown-fur transmuter cannot expend more than 1 point from her arcane reservoir in this way.

This ability replaces the arcanist exploit gained at 3rd level.

At 9th level, the brown-fur transmuter can target others with her transmutation spells. A brown-fur transmuter can expend 1 point from her arcane reservoir to change any transmutation spell with a range of personal to a range of touch. Such a spell automatically fails on unwilling creatures.

This ability replaces the arcanist exploit gained at 9th level.

Combine that with the Feral Shifting, Altered Shifting, and Shift Caster exploits.

That's the basics of the build anyway. Key spells would be alter self, monstrous physique, beast form, form of the dragon, polymorph, etc.

Are you sure about the clone thing, Jelani? It was just an idea. You did call it first. Kallie can stay her own centaur!

Also, CDL, I assume I'll use the same racial stats that I worked out with Thron, and sticking with her being the littlest centaur?

Go with it! Maybe we could be twins, practicing our shapeshifting Magic’s in our own ways but united. I’ll go a more combat oriented route. All it will need is a wee bit of stat swapping.

Are you sure about the clone thing, Jelani? It was just an idea. You did call it first. Kallie can stay her own centaur!

Also, CDL, I assume I'll use the same racial stats that I worked out with Thron, and sticking with her being the littlest centaur?

It just struck me as something foolhardy Embreth would have happen to him. He ignores Zoli, gets some of his friends together and goes adventuring in some local ruins against her rules, gets killed.

But I'm definitely not set on it. I'm kinda over Embreth, he was more of a crunch concept than an RP concept. It would be more fun for Kallie to have had it happen to her, if that's what you want.

Go with it! Maybe we could be twins, practicing our shapeshifting Magic’s in our own ways but united. I’ll go a more combat oriented route. All it will need is a wee bit of stat swapping.

I was going to go Wereratkin or Werebatkin too. Lemme make some adjustments to the stats I wrote up for War for the Crown and post them here. We can figure out the backstory later..

Alright, here is the crunch for my character. I haven't figured out traits yet, but everything else is there. I paid full scribing cost for all the spells in my book that I didn't get for free.

Transmuter

Bloodmarked Skinwalker (Chelaxian) arcanist (brown-fur transmuter) 2
CN Medium humanoid (skinwalker, shapechanger)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +1 (+3 at night)
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Defense
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AC 18 (19), touch 13 (14), flat-footed 15 (+5 armor, +2 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 19 (2d6+9)

Fort +2, Ref +2 (+3), Will +2

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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.

Melee mwk longspear +4 (1d8+3/x3)

Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with masterwork longspear)

Special Attacks arcane reservoir (5/5), consume spells, arcane exploits (shift caster)

Arcanist Spellbook:

0 - All
1st - Ant Haul, Air Bubble, Comp. Languages, Disguise Self, Feather Fall, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Grease, Infernal Healing, Long Arm, Prot. Evil, Reduce Person, Shield, Strong Wings, Windy Escape

Arcanist (Brown-Fur Transmuter) Spells Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +4)
. . 1st (4/4) - shield, windy escape
. . 0 (at will) - dancing lights, daze (DC 12), detect magic, disrupt undead, prestidigitation
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Statistics
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Str 15, Dex 14 (16), Con 15, Int 15, Wis 8, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 16

Traits

Feats Dodge, Toughness

Skills Fly +9, Knowledge (arcana) +6, Knowledge (history) +7, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (planes) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6, Lore (Thassilonian Ruins in Varisia) +7, Perception +1 (+3 at night), Spellcraft +6

Languages Common, Thassilonian, Varisian

Other Gear mwk longspear, bracers of armor +5, backpack (arcanist starting spellbook, ink, inkpen, bedroll, trail rations (5), waterskin), belt pouch (flint and steel), spell component pouch, 685 gp, 8 sp, 1 cp

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Special Abilities
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Arcane Reservoir +1 DC or CL (5/day) (Su) Pool of points fuel exploits, or can expend to add +1 CL or DC while cast spell.

Consume Spells (1/day) (Su) As a move action, expend a spell slot to add its spell levels to arcane reservoir.

Bestial Features A skinwalker can change shape to and from a bestial form as a standard action. In bestial form, a bloodmarked gains a +2 racial bonus to either Dexterity. While in this form, a bloodmarked also takes on an animalistic feature that provides a special effect. Each time a skinwalker assumes bestial form, she can choose to gain one of the following features:

Bite attack that deals 1d6 points of damage

+4 racial bonus on Perception checks

Scent to a range of 30 feet

Treat falling damage as 20 feet less than it actually is

Go with it! Maybe we could be twins, practicing our shapeshifting Magic’s in our own ways but united. I’ll go a more combat oriented route. All it will need is a wee bit of stat swapping.

After rereading the campaign traits, it seems like close allies could definitely be a fun one for us. If you're down to play a skinwalker, we could be twins.

Or...since Gyr is also a skinwalker, what if we were all three adopted by/bio-kids of Shalelu? Gyr's character could be her bio-kid, and then the two of us could be skinwalkers from other places that were rejected by our families/society that she took in when we were little. Or I could be that, and Thron could be a human orphan that she took in or something. Thoughts you two?

We could build it so the three of us work together in combat, give each other +1 to saves, d6 bonuses to rolls, take some teamwork feats...

Gyr, want to be one of the classes that gets teamwork feats and can grant them to allies? That would be a perfect trifecta...

@Thron: I'd recommend looking at some druid archetypes. If nothing else, Menhir Savant is basically Better Vanilla Druid. Since you have a T-Rex and we're playing in Varisia, Goliath Druid is also very appropriate for this campaign.

@Stal: Feel free to keep Kallie as is. Out of curiosity, what are her ancestry stats?

The Sihedron Heroes (Shattered Star Abridged)

tl;dr - The Sihedron Heroes is the collective name for the Rangers and the Freaks.

The Shattered Star cast consisted of Argor, Cladissa, Gianluca, Thrassk, Zoli, Eugeni, Jeevika, and Elthariel.

(Because of her position and duties as Earthmother of the Thunderhooves, Ryli largely resigned from adventuring following Karzoug's defeat. Given his many brushes with death, Lorthan also retired. For the awhile, anyway. After all, he is destined to grow much stronger with age. Meanwhile, young Grommesson was tasked with watching Verde Heights while Master Argor was away.)

Shattered Star Abridged was the swansong of the Absalom Freaks. Given Argor Constantine's pivotal role in helping the Varisian Rangers defeat Mokmurian, the Magnimar Pathfinder Lodge asked that their organization's most seasoned and celebrated team be assigned the Sihedron case instead of some new recruits. In a true moment of brilliance, Argor decided to approach the Rangers themselves for assistance.

The plucky Zoli was always up for another adventure. Fascinated by all things Thassilon, Eugeni also eagerly agreed to help. Due to other obligations (family, her job, and so on), Ambassador Kailani originally declined, but a mysterious communion session with Shelyn changed her mind; like during the venture to Xin-Shalast, Jeevika used Elthariel's old and extremely broad royal mandate to fight Thassilon as her legal justification to assist the Pathfinders. Ever the loyal friend, Elthariel went along to help sell Jeevika's claims.

(Queen Edasseril's decision to allow such shenanigans was later vindicated a billionfold; the events of Shattered Star Abridged were what ultimately gave Jeevika the strength and power to deal the finishing blow to Treerazer.)

Given their sheer combined might, they bulldozed through the Adventure Path. Afterwards, they collectively became known as The Sihedron Heroes. Nowadays, due to their own contributions in preventing Karzoug’s return, Ryli and Lorthan are also included in this group.

What of Thrassk?

Thrassk helped too; I added him to the cast list.

(^_^)

Quick post, more later:

Assuming I'm Shalelu's kid I'm leaning toward a barbarian. If there's a barb archetype that grants Teamwork feats, I'm open to it. I could certainly see her adopting other skinwalkers, once she resigns herself to raising one of her own (and parents of other skinwalkers looking to her for relief).

I *might* still go Occultist too, as it seems thematic to exploring ruins, if we think the front line is strong enough (which it might be, with Jelani's shapechanging arcanist & Thron's druid + pet + summons on the front lines (and Galatea around to boot).

Thron, I'd already planned for Nyugelle to spend some significant time in the Mwangi Expanse, exploring her new self/heritage post-reincarnation. She could easily be your mama (or at least someone to be tied into your backstory in some way, if you want.)

Gotta go, more later!

I'm going to dip one level of urban barbarian, probably at level 4, just FYI.

There is a barbarian archetype that gives teamwork feats. And also this one.

Then there is this skald archetype

And this slayer one

Then there is this prestige class

CDL - Is it year 4729 AR?

@Jelani: 4736 AR (4711 + 25). Like with Legacies, I'm going with a full generation (25 years) since Thron's Rise of the Runelords.

@Kallie: What are the mechanics (stat bonuses/penalties, her Medium size, etc.) for Kallie's variation of centaur that you and Thron crafted?

Sweet, thanks. Working on my backstory. What exactly happened with Shalelu after we turned her back into an elf? I don't remember.

Last we saw her, Shalelu decided to rebuild the Black Arrows. Bar some sudden twist happening in Rise, I'm keep what Thron wrote and saying that she and her sister Elandra were overwhelmingly successful in this endeavor.

As Giant fighters? Hmmm. I was hoping she would join the Rangers or something. Or perhaps the Black Arrows could become a subsidiary of the Rangers?

If I'm not mistaken, I used this race build minus the large size and the extra strength. That knocked 11 points off, leaving it a much more palatable 18-point race. I think.

Oh, and regarding the accidental clone trait, I was thinking Kallie just grows up not really realizing that her upper half looks exactly like Sorshen, but then someone makes the comparison later.

Though, now that I think about it, the accident/incident could be a pretty interesting twist. That'd be a fun explanation for why she's small, too!

Eh, I could go either way.