Seconded, hope she recovers quickly.
Might just be me, but I've noticed that this game has lost a lot of the wind from its sails. I mean, it's been almost a couple weeks since I've heard from Jaya, and my posts as Galatea have been largely driving the story. Now that the dust has had some time to settle, I have some thoughts and concerns that I'd like to express. Namely, the question I keep thinking: where are the characters supposed to go from here?
Preface: I’m well aware that I don’t have complete information about the story, but it’s been a couple of months; if we’re going to be spending the summer learning the new rules, well, that’s a bit… tedious. Moreover, Galatea is just as much in the dark as I am; many of these thoughts apply IC and OOC. By all indications, these recent events are the plot, and Thron has already said that the world is at stake.
Additionally, I'm only expressing my thoughts and concerns about the current state of the campaign. I have no qualms with any of the players and the DM.
1) As shown by the long list of casualties and close calls in Thron's Runelords game, Pathfinder is a very lethal game.
Let's just look at what's happened to just Eugeni recently. In the last two books of Runelords, he has been...
1) Feebleminded.
2) Petrified... twice.
3) Kidnapped and cursed (?) by a Wendigo, who have easily just murdered him.
4) Nearly eaten by a T-Rex. If Ryli hadn’t thought to cast Freedom of Movement (an abjuration spell I might add) on him, we’d be trying to get him out of the belly of the beast.
5) Outright killed.
Pathfinder operates on the assumption that the PCs have some reasonable/reliable access to efficient healing. Otherwise, the players would have to keep a stack of backup character sheets. One of the big criticisms of the first releases of the 2E Playtest was that healing was (outside of clerics) very unreliable; from what I read, players were burning through characters like dry kindling.
Galatea, Kallie, Embreth, Abasi, and Jaya suddenly find themselves in a world that is much more lethal than before, and there's no reliable way to recover from anything besides taking several days off and praying that they make all their saves. At least for Galatea, that makes adventure much less appealing.
True, they can buy old healing items, but as Kallie noted, logically speaking, the prices for those items are soon going to be way out of their budget range.
And they can't get the money to reliably buy these items unless they go adventuring...
2) They're facing an enemy who makes Karzoug and the Onyx Order look like French poodles.
I've said it before, but I think the stakes escalated way too quickly. Instead of Nualia's bumbling goblins, it's like if Karzoug himself showed up and nuked Sandpoint in the opening act of Runelords. In both that campaign and Absalom, there was much more build up; by the time the main antagonists were clear, the characters were capable of doing something about them.
Yes, we tore through Alaznist's goons for a few rounds, but Abasi and Jaya were also really badly injured. If Sauron had fought seriously (Righteous Might first round and then relentlessly attacking), it would have probably been a TPK. We also had Elandra helping us, and it’s clear that she has a few levels on us.
As for Alaznist herself, well, she’s proven to be a million times the threat Karzoug ever was. Far more intelligent (keeping a low profile and going straight for the Starstone). Far more dangerous (destroying two schools of magic without consequence and “killing” Argor Constantine at the height of his power in the seat of his power). Far more resourceful (somehow building a powerful army from nothing in twenty-five years despite multiple people looking for her). Etc.
And Karzoug wasn't some chump. He and his minions nearly brought the Rangers to the brink numerous times; as shown by the current battle in the Runelords, there’s no guarantee that they’re going to succeed... besides the plot of Legacies saying that they did.
3) What now?
In this much more lethal world, what are a bunch of Level 5 characters supposed to do about an almighty goddess and her massive surprise army of powerful elite warriors wanting them dead? How are they supposed to save the world?
They lack many of the best tricks their parents had. Summons aren’t a thing anymore, and Ryli/Setsuna/Jeevika/Argor used them to great effect in their campaigns. Until later levels (and we’ve been told that leveling will be slow), they can’t meaningfully heal themselves from anything. One bad roll, and I’m looking for excuses to bring in Galatea’s father's cousin’s former roommate. The best school of defensive buffs is gone, which hurts characters like Kallie and Jaya who can’t wear armor.
Yes, they can retrain; however, these characters were built around certain ideas, and retraining takes time and money (which again is now much harder to obtain). Might as well bring in a new character.
It's going to take several real life months (or even years) to get any sort of catharsis. For example, take Abasi. I mean, by all indications, his father was assassinated before his eyes, his sister was kidnapped and is likely now destined for a life of abuse, and his home is about to be destroyed. If something similar had happened to Shiloh, I’d be bending over backwards making excuses for her to be functional.
It really doesn’t seem like the characters have any sort of agency here. Yes, they can make decisions about where to go next, but Thron has already told us that the plot is going to keep finding them. Meanwhile, it cost us a kidney to escape the prologue. In other words, we likely would have been better off ignoring the plot and exploring some ruins.
tl;dr: I'm not really enjoying the current course of the game. Based on the prior campaigns, I think the changes to the game mechanics are going to lead to a lot of dead PCs. The stakes escalated way too quickly, and now I find myself wondering IC and OOC what the PCs are even supposed to do next against such impossible odds.
Well, I have been moving slower because when I was railroading, people complained.
As to the state of the game: I have said multiple times I’m purposely keeping some elements under wraps for the express purpose of making reveals impactful to both the characters and the players. It’d be like if I was organizing a surprise birthday party for someone, and then telling them about it before hand.
I have also said multiple times I intend to include means for you guys to circumvent some of the major negatives of the world’s changes. This falls back to the point above.
Yes: Pathfinder is and can be lethal. That’s is a feature of the game I particularly enjoy, even as a player. If I wanted to play a game where there were no chance for failure, I’d give up on RPG’s altogether and just play a game on my phone.
As tothe escalation of the game: other games even produced by paizo have had similar sudden escalations, and then to level 1 characters. Can’t think of the names of those AP’s off hand, but I know they exist.
Ultimately, though, I had decided a while back if I was tasked with defending these premises yet again, I’d just fold this campaign. Not mad. I just see that no one has any interest in letting this story unfold naturally, and would rather be presented with the plot and twists in advance.
Seeing as this is over, I’m going to go ahead and share what my planned plot developments were, as well as my plans to let you guys deal with the problems;
Overall Background:
Alaznist spent the last 20 plus years gathering information on the world. With her skills, doing so was easy and quick, and she was smart enough to keep her head down. She learned of the Starston, and began formulating a plan. She began garnering allies and loyal agents to her quietly, and used them to lull the world into a period of peace across the continent to keep suspicions low.
She didn’t have it out for Argor’s Directly, but knew a powerful mage posed a threat to her before she made her move. She used the coronation as a clever means to strike. She trapped him with a Trap the Soul spell placed by one of her minions and hidden via Nondetection to subdue him into a gem in her possession before making a move on the Cathedral while her minions distracted everyone in a ruse of assassinating the Absalom leadership.
With her ascension to a goddess, she exhausted the last energies of the Starstone, resulting in the Cathedral collapsing. Her first move was against Nethys, who being a god known for his near-omnipotence and eccentricity, did not resist her assuming his place (there would have been an extrapolation scene showing this happen later).
She then moved against Gorum. The years of peace had left him weakened, but it was still an intense battle (mortals witnessed this as the strange energy in the sky at night the next few days). She eventually defeats him, and claims a unified position as goddess of war and magic.
Immediately after, she guides her mortal followers to strike, and a multitude of wars and conflict strikes Golarion:
Taldor and Qadira begin an intense war.
Molthune makes a move suddenly against Nirmathas, crushing the unprepared nation and forcing it back into it’s fold.
The orcish hordes of Belkzen move against Lastwall, and the small nation finds itself struggling to survive.
The Ulfen of the Linnorm Kings begin launching massive raids across the west coast of the Inner Sea.
Cheliax launches a war against Andoran.
Get and Nex resume their conflict.
Osirion begins attempting to reclaim Thuvia and Rahadoum, as well as Katapesh.
Brevoy falls into civil war.
The River Kingdoms find themselves in the midst of an attempted forced unification under Pitax’s banner.
Galt throws its peace treaty aside, and a new Revolution begins under the guidance of Crimson Gardeners
And more.
The PC’s:
The characters would have been faced with a couple brief, BRIEF dungeon crawls to let them deal with the changes to magic a bit, and learn to respect those hardships. Suddenly, they’d be approached by mysterious cloaked denizens who would reveal themselves as none other than agents of the gods (Sabrina would have made an appearance). They inform the PC’s to much of what has been going on in the realms of the divine, and inform them that as Alaznist’s might on Golarion grows, so too does her divinity. Moreover, she has granted some of the fragmented divinity gained from her defeat of Nethys and Gorum to her subjects, making them demigods and bolstering their efforts here.
This is when they’d have offered the PC’s a portion of divinity that the gods managed to acquire from Gorum’s fall, making them Demi-gods themselves. This would give them the strength to challenge Alaznist’s subjects. Also, it gives the, the ability to use conjuration and abjuration again. At this point, you’d have gained Mythic Tier 1.
As you went around the world defeating her agents, your own divinity would grow, culminating in being near level 20 and Tier 9 mythic. Her agents would include NPC’s of my own, some throwbacks to old villains from the other games, and some NPC’s from your own backgrounds, like Auronee, for example.
Meanwhile, Alaznist continues her war against the other gods, gradually defeating others one by one.
The campaign would culminate in a confronting with Alaznist herself, and if you defeat her, you would then be provided a choice. Ascend to true divinity yourselves and fill the vacant god roles yourselves, or relinquish your divinity and restore the fallen gods.
I'm not that worried about all the rule stuff, I'm sure he's considered that at least somewhat before launching this.
I would like to get to a plot besides "Run for your lives!" as soon as possible. I'm thinking there is meant to be some sort of reveal that will even the odds somewhat, but that we're just taking forever in IRL time to get to it because he's relying on us to sandbox things, but that's hard when we don't know what's going on.
tl;dr: Give us some rails to get us quickly to the part where we aren't chumps please?
Here's the problem with that premise and that outline the way I see it:
It's an awesome premise, but it wasn't what we signed on for.
Obviously, Rise of the Runelords was a AP that, as they do, started off small and slowly grew into an epic adventure.
Absalom Aberrations wasn't even that. It was a series of Pathfinder Society scenarios with the formula twist, that I think we the players helped turn into an epic story.
The epicness sort of evolved as the story went, but the real joy that we found (or at least, the joy that I found) in both stories were the unique characters and their deep interpersonal relationships that grew over time.
My recollections regarding the talk of creating a Legacy game was to continue adventuring in the world that our older characters built and reshaped.
That world was just upended, and everything's different -- and not for the better.
I don't see this campaign taking the time for Kallie to go on a date with someone. I don't see this campaign as having room for all the little side shenanigans our characters inevitably would get into if we didn't feel that the world (and multiverse!!!) was under threat of utter destruction.
Just as Galatea said, with healing and protective magics no longer working, why would we risk a dungeon crawl? It's suicide when you can't protect yourself or heal yourself. So why take the risk at all? It feels like we were running, we might be able to find out what's happening in the god realms, but we wouldn't have a hope to affect it, and just like the rest of the mortals, we'd try to find a safe place and live out our days before everything is rent asunder, or the gods finally get their act together and stop her.
So, TL;DR: this wasn't the Legacy game I wanted or expected.
I'm in agreement with Stal. Even with Thron's early warnings, I was given the impression that this game would start as Absalom Aberrations 2.0 and maybe slowly evolve into Rise of the Runelords 2: Electric Boogaloo. In particular, I was also looking forward to those big, amazing character moments that Runelords and Absalom both had.
I don't think Stal's and Thron's ideas even have to be mutually exclusive; I think that Thron's outline would have make for a great second half of a campaign. Once the Legacy characters have come into their own and fallen in love with the wonderful world their parents created, then Alaznist makes her big move.
Imagine it this way. The Swallowtail Festival Prologue happens as is, but Argor's coronation is still months and months away. The PCs go explore the Lady's Light... and then run into a group of Alaznist's goons who are there for... reasons. Fight ensues. First inklings of the greater plot. If the characters bother to act on it, their parents reassure them that they've got matters under control.
Something similar happens on the next adventure. And the next one. It would be structured like Runelords or Absalom where each adventure leads to the next one, and signs of a greater plot start to unfold. Meanwhile, perhaps the PCs go on some more lighthearted quests like finally discovering Cai'nan's fate.
Eventually, however, after the new PCs have grown into capable individuals, it becomes very obvious that Alaznist is up to something.
And then just as they prepare to get involved themselves, they attend the coronation, and the world goes mad. Their parents are either in cahoots with Alaznist or neutralized like Argor. However, after their experiences from the first half of the game, the second generation is more than capable of fighting back. The rest of the adventure then plays out like Thron's outline, albeit with maybe more lulls in the action.
I know that some Paizo adventures escalate quickly; Wrath of the Righteous certainly does. However, they allow for deescalation too. Going by that outline, it feels like it would've been nearly nonstop escalation: the apocalypse is in full swing, and the characters can only limit the fallout. As Stal said, there just wouldn't be time for something as simple as a character going on a date. Meanwhile, the plot itself just started out far too intense for these characters to really handle; instead of going on fun adventures, we've been doing our best gingerbread man impressions.
Naw: there definitely would have been chunks of time to do whatever. The Arrows were going to be your eyes and ears in this regard: gathering you intel during your down periods. And again, that was all rough outline, and some of it was red herring wars instigated by her minions to distract you from her true followers efforts.
Ya’ll know I love my downtime stuff, so of course I’d have incorporated it. Hence why things seemed so normal in Taldor. And even with all these wars going on, even the gods wouldn’t be expecting you mere mortals to go on a non-stop fight-grind to overthrow a rogue deity.
It’s whatever, like I said earlier, I’m not mad. Nobody was having fun, so no sense dragging it out.
Ah. Well, that's a bummer, but I definitely get where you're coming from Thron. If the campaign you want to run isn't what everyone signed up for, forcing it isn't going to be fun for anyone.
Total bummer. I for one was willing to keep playing, but I'm probably the least invested in all the little character moments of anyone in the group. Not that I don't like them, I just like the rules and tactics stuff equally as much.
What I'm really bummed about is not having more games with you guys. Now that Absalom is done and RotRL is finishing up, this was my only game where I'm a player with other ppl in this group.
Feel like running anything else Thron? Something pre-published perhaps?
Does anyone have any requests? Any paizo stuff that has a healthy mix of downtime RP as well as combat?
I'm sad to see this come to an early end.
Thron, I loved your ambition and ideas here, and was curious where things were going. Thanks for dreaming up a big, unusual project for us!
I know that my busy-ness contributed to a lack of momentum, and understand that the campaign turned out to be a mismatch for some of us, so I completely understand your choice...but I'm sorry we didn't get to go further.
(And I'll second Jelani's question about Thron running an AP in the not too distant future. There are lots I haven't done. If you do do one, my experience is that the more sandboxy campaigns I've been a part of were the ones that were more likely to stall out online.)
EDIT
I just saw Thron ninja'd me asking for requests:
Tyrant's Grasp is just out, but it seems very cool and I like Crystal Frasier's design. Happy to think about if there're others I'd particularly recommend, but I could get excited about many.
More later. Cheers.
My quick list (leaving off paths I know folk have played) would be:
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Hell's Rebels
and War of the Crown.
I've played book one of Hell's Rebels, run book one of Curse of the Crimson Throne, and I've just heard good things about War of the Crown.
They're all substantially (though not entirely) urban (CotCT least so), with a good mix of social and combat, and have good downtime opportunities baked right in.
Tyrant's Grasp looks very cool too. I'm concerned that it might be more of a hectic pace, but that's purely based off of skimming the back of the first book, so that could easily be wrong.
Either way, if you're interested in running an AP, I'd love to help get you some of the books. I perpetually have a few books worth of store credit sitting on this account that I never use on anything important :-p
Getting the books aren’t the problem.
I want one that has a mix of RP and combat to hit everyone’s interest and keeps folks posting. I am more prone to post frequently when others are. Most of my posts are from my phone, so I’m more reliable to do smaller, more frequent posts. When I’m needed to do larger, more involved posts and rules referencing, I usually am forced to stall until I get computer access.
And I want everyone to agree on an AP in advance if possible.
Also, I’m fine with sticking with the Legacy character idea, nixing everything that has happened in this game and just starting the concept over there. And you’d all be level 1.
You know, I wouldn't be opposed to a soft reboot of the whole Legacy campaign and convert it to Curse of the Crimson Throne. I don't think we've ever done anything with Korvosa.
Roll it back to just after the reparations we made to Sandpoint, and then something draws us to Korvosa. For reasons.
(Now that I think about it, I did a sort of "Reverse AP" in my Red Mantis game so I'm somewhat familiar with Escape from Old Korvosa... but we've not really established that that game is in cannon with the Absalom/RotRL games. And after her ascension Cladissa freed her father from the Final Blade that's there in that book but its destruction is not a part of that encounter. I think it was just window dressing, if I recall.)
I haven't played Hell's Rebels, War for the Crown or obviously Tyrant's Grasp. I have played some amount of CotCT but it's been so long I don't really even remember what happened other than Korvosa and organized criminals or something like that.
I don't actually even know the premise of War for the Crown, let me look that up...
Oooh. That sounds fun. So Hell's Rebels and War for the Crown are both urban intrigue games. I prefer grey to black and white, so I'd lean towards War for the Crown out of those two.
I also love undead, so I'd play Tyrant's Grasp any day of the week.
Edit: I just saw Thron and Stal's posts. I wasn't a huge fan of CotCT as I recall. It's from early in PFRPG and the enemies are way underpowered and the plot was meh. I'd rather do one of the newer ones.
There's a fully updated Pathfinder version, just like RotRL.
Another that I'd like to eventually do and do right is the Second Darkness AP. There's some issues with a couple of the later books, but books one through four are fantastic.
I guess we should just vote then.
(In order of preference)
1) Tyrant's Grasp
2) War for the Crown
3) Hell's Rebels
4) Ironfang Invasion (love goblinoids)
5) The Ruins of Azlant
6) If I'm this badly outvoted I'll just go with the group.
Also, I have a request. We always run into the problem of starting out as some kind of powerful/unique/whatever characters and then end up way overpowered a few levels later.
Can we start out as level 1, 15 point buy, no crazy powerful races, no summoners, no slumber hex kind of thing? I think we are all skilled enough optimizers to make it through the first few levels alright, and we'll be powerful enough before long. I'd like the bar to start a bit lower so we're not at mini rocket tag by level 8-9. Anyone else down for that?
I was going to suggest weaker characters too. So I’m all for that.
I've actually played the entirety of Hell's Rebels, so that might be one we should avoid.
My vote is for War for the Crown. It appears to be everything we want in an AP.
I actually had a cool idea for a character concept I wanted to try the other day, so I'm not sure how I feel about this being a legacy game. At least not if I'd be tied to playing some version of Embreth.
Doesn’t have to be. Just letting you guys have the option if you want it.
As you like :-) Just wanted to offer.
Out of the ones brought up but not full-on vetoed my votes are for:
1) Curse of the Crimson Throne
2) War for the Crown
3) Ironfang Invasion
4) Tyrant's Grasp
5) Second Darkness
I'd also like to vote against a 15 point buy (if we're making new characters). 15 Points will still let you boost all the way up to an 18 if you really want it, but it makes it a lot harder for characters that use a bunch of different attributes to keep up (like... most martial characters for example)
But angling for less powerful characters is fine by me too :-)
The more I think about it, the more I am definitely wanting low power, no third party material. So like I had done with RotR originally. Only things found in Core, APG, GMG, ACG, UC, UM, UE, and Unchained. If any downtime stuff comes up, I’ll use some Ultimate Campaign.
15 Point Buy, Background Skills.
Meh, I'm not a huge fan of limiting the material to certain Paizo books. No third party material I agree with 100%.
If we're going to limit things at character creation beyond point buy, let's just ban the more high powered races. I guess we'd have to discuss exactly what that means more.
I'm also quite serious about banning the slumber hex, I hate that thing.
I really don't think 15 point buy is a huge deal. In fact, as most people forget, it's what the system was originally designed for. By mid levels it's not even really noticeable anymore. If everyone else is really against it; I've often done 17 point buy as well. It's slightly more than a 15, but not as crazy as 20 or 25.
I'd like to throw in my hat for automatic bonus progression as well. I like that subsystem a lot.
Also, it looks like we're probably playing War of the Crown, which I'm fine with. I already have a character idea for it after reading the player's guide.
I’m basically saying I wanna limit it to things I can access easily and not go hog wild with d20pfsrd again.
I'm also quite serious about banning the slumber hex, I hate that thing.
Here's my issue with the Slumber Hex. I could kit out a raging barbarian or bloodrager or other high-damage output melee character (Hello, Zoli!) and be able to drop a major enemy in one round, before it gets to act.
No one bats an eye at that.
But if a witch Slumbers an enemy, sending it to sleep so it can be cdg'd, that's broken. An enemy that cannot be an elf, half-elf, undead, dragon, vermin, ooze, construct, plant, or otherwise immune to sleep or mind-affecting effects.
So... yeah. Broken. Awful.
;-P
So if there were one or two things outside the pre-Occult Adventures hardcovers we were interested in, just make sure to ask in advance and assume the answer will be no? :-p
15 Point buy is fine, I just usually end up with a Str, Int, or Cha of 7...
(2nd on the automatic bonus progression too. In most APs you don't even need to adjust the treasure, just remove the Big 6 items from all then NPCs and most of that gold vanishes.)
I'll say that I don't think the Slumber hex is inherently broken, buuut a lot of the prewritten adventures include an awful lot of encounters that can be trivialized by it.
But I'm not building a hexer anyways, so... just my 2 cents.
If we're keeping our Legacy characters, my votes are:
1) Curse of the Crimson Throne
2) Second Darkness (I might even be willing to run this one. I've got the books already -- and I think Embreth would love to be part owner of a gambling establishment!) Also, it's got some elf politics in the later books that could be awesome story grist for the Kailanis.
If we're not keeping our Legacy characters (which will be tough for me, since I feel tapped out on ideas for Pathfinder characters),
Hell's Rebels
War for the Crown (even tie)
Adamantly opposed to Ironfang Legion, as I am currently DMing this AP on the boards already. And it doesn't have much room for RP, certainly not a lot of side quests/personal explorations. It's initially a battle for survival, then a war AP.
I don't really want to keep Embreth. I made him for this game, if this game is gone, so is he.
Again, looks like the majority of us could agree best on War for the Crown.
RE: Slumber - The WftC player's guide indicates most enemies will be humans, humanoids, animals and magical beasts.
Also, one can twin hex it at later levels, then the feat where if they pass the save the witch can do it again on the same creature. I've never had a witch who didn't manage to boost their DCs to the point where nothing can really resist them as written. Undead are really the only common enemies who hold up against it well in my experience. The other types of enemies who can handle it are rare to non-existant in pre-published material.
I've had numerous times as a DM where I've seen it end encounters which were supposed to be difficult, across multiple games, and multiple witches. Or, the witch's player chooses not to use it for no logical reason when it could easily end 80+% of encounters. I don't like having a player who essentially has a get out of jail free card for anything not immune to mind effecting/sleep in their back pockets at all times (as much as I don't mind being that player :P). I feel like it's one of those things that potentially/often makes the DM have to change the game just to challenge that one ability, which makes the game less fun.
So, yeah, I've made my point about it. If everyone else disagrees, so be it. But for me, the game is more fun without slumber in it. I would say the same thing about spell perfected battering blasts if that were likely to be an issue in this game. Really, I'd like to see any spell or ability we can think of which becomes a one standard action = vast majority of enemies as written in the AP are insta-dead/neutralized removed from the game.
I'm likely to play a new character as well. It's possible that--if it's allowed--I'd play another Occultist (albeit, a VERY different one from Abasi, both mechanically and in personality). There's also a Bard devotee of Shelyn that I've been wanting to play. I'll wait to think too hard about characters before I see which AP we end up with.
I'm fine with any of the top contenders at this point. I'd probably put Tyrant's Grasp 1st...but *really* I recommend Thron sit with all the ones everyone's OK with for a bit, and see which story he's most driven to tell (since as DM he'll end up doing more work on it than anyone else.)
As for build rules, starting with a 15 pt buy sounds fine. You know I think there are more interesting martial rules out there than core PF (in terms of giving martials more to do than just hitting things)...but I'm 100% fine with sticking to Paizo.
For what it's worth, I'd be happy never to play with the Slumber hex again as well. I did once (with a ratfolk witch I really enjoyed in one of Jelani's old games) and I was mortified at how quickly I could end fights. Dropping 2 demons / round--each 30' apart and up in the air--outclassed the rest of the party...and turned out to feel fairly anticlimactic as well. (Admittedly, if she can get into the right position, Zoli can certainly drop 2 foes in a round now...but somehow subjectively that feels more 'hard won' to me, when it's in melee.)
OH! And it just occurred to me...I've been listening to Critical Role recently and just read this NYTimes editorial and they've got me interested in D&D 5e too. I have no idea if that's something Thron wants to lead (or that the rest of yall would be interested in) but if so, I'd enjoy trying it out!
Like with Cwethan, Tyrant's Grasp would definitely be toward the bottom of my list. From what I've read, it sounds like a bleaker and more depressing Rise of the Runelords starring Tar-Baphon. Having briefly run a Reign of Winter campaign, I've never particularly enjoyed the Adventure Paths that involve a lot of rushing from one place to another trying to avert disaster, and it doesn't sound like the nature of Tyrant's Grasp would allow for much downtime or side adventures.
I'm fine with sticking with a more limited selection of books, but if possible, I would like more Oracle curses to be available. The earlier ones are either boring or crippling. If it's alright, I'd like to keep Reclusive on my character. Speaking of which, I'm probably just going to recycle Galatea. Battle Oracles are fun. As for 15 point buy, I can make it work. What I like about 20 is that it lets the characters be a little more well-rounded without dumping stats.
Note that (while Thron should ban whatever he wants) the War of the Crown player's guide does say "As much of War for the Crown focuses on the history, legacies, and zeitgeist of Taldor, along with conspiracies
and strange forces, the various occult classes are especially appropriate for this Adventure Path."
If we do War for the Crown I am going to play a female Noble Scion of house Vinmark, who is a campaigner to reform the primogeniture laws. I have ideas about backstory, but I'll save them for once we settle on something.
Mechanically she's going to be a skinwalker brown fur transmuter arcanist. If we change APs the fluff will change, but I'm going to play a brown fur transmuter arcanist whatever adventure we end up with.
I would play 5e, I've been wanting to try it for a long time but haven't had the chance more than Brimley Dower's one little campaign that died shortly after starting.
I would also be interested in trying Pathfinder 2e, which is coming out soon if I'm not mistaken.
If we War for the Crown, I'm currently leaning toward a dashing Bard.
Depending on how building goes, will be mostly a buffer, but hopefully at least a backup archer too (depending on point buy and how building goes).
I'm fine with War for the Crown, but we are chatting on r20 and I'm wondering...
What if we played Starfinder?
While I like Pathfinder more, Starfinder is definitely a good system. I played the entirety of Dead Suns and enjoyed it. That said, since it was never fully playtested before release, there are a few tweaks to the rules that I'd recommend.
Well, I have to say, this sucks. There was that time I was lukewarm on continuing with Kallie and then after all the encouragement I went back and reread and rediscovered my love for her...
And now we're tossing this all aside.
Urgh.
Well, I have to say, this sucks. There was that time I was lukewarm on continuing with Kallie and then after all the encouragement I went back and reread and rediscovered my love for her...
And now we're tossing this all aside.
Urgh.
I plan to continue with Gali. I don't see any reason you couldn't continue playing Kallie.
And we're doing Starfinder?
Centaurs in SPAAAAAAAAAACE!!!
The Starfinder thing was largely a conversation Jelani and I had; what we play is ultimately up to Thron.
Yeah, I don't care if other ppl recycle their Legacy characters, I just want to do someone new.
We're probably playing War for the Crown, I just threw Starfinder out there as an idea.
Jaya has to be substantially rebuilt if we're cutting softcovers (though she doesn't use any Third Party Products), so I'll see if it makes sense to rebuild or start anew.
Wait. Ouch. 15-point buy?
How is Kallie going to be a wizard focusing on save-or-suck spells with a 15 point buy and no bonuses to Int?
Either she can continue her tradition as the worst wizard, or I've gotta come up with another character.
Been reading over the various AP’s in the front running (namely WftC and CotCT) And Nothing is jumping out at me.
So, here is what I’m considering:
A) Taking a break on starting something new.
B) Starting something from scratch, based in Golarion, but using 5E.
If we agree to do option B, some things we all need to understand in advance:
1) it’ll be a learning experience for all of us.
2) I will be driving the campaign on some light rails. Meaning it still needs to be somewhat player driven. I will be following your lead somewhat, but only after dangling some plot hooks in front of you for you to choose from.
3) No preformed campaign expectations. I will basically be custom building this ground up, with a wrinkle here or there to mess with ya a bit. Not on the world changing scale like I planned before though.
Thoughts?
I mainly just want to get into another game with this group. So yeah, I'm more than willing to try 5e.
Option B sounds fine. The main thing for me is that we go into the game with the core assumptions of the default game world, as implied by the rulebooks, intact. Or, if we are going to make major rule changes (i.e. removing a school of magic, etc.), that we make them house rules that everyone is aware of before we actually start playing. We don't need to be aware of any in world/in character reasons for the changes before the game begins. We do need to know about them OOC so that we can make sensible design choices while building characters who are expected to function in the world as heroic figures.
I would strongly encourage you to use some kind of pre-published material as an outline at least. Constructing a quality AP-length campaign from scratch with your work schedule seems...ambitious... Especially when you consider all the stat blocks, NPCs, and maps involved.
There is no way I would have been able to string some kind of plot together in Absalom if I had also had to write all the crunch and fluff from scratch.
I have had a good idea for the start of a campaign a few times, started the game, and then realized after a while that I have no real plot structure to get from my good starting idea to my ending idea and the game dies. That's what happened to my most recent IRL basically. It's even worse when you're doing PBP and have limited computer time, etc.
I'm not saying try to convert an AP with 100% fidelity or anything. However, there are 40 years of published adventures out there at this point from dozens of companies. You could just as easily convert some old thing as a PF adventure. Or just use something as a general guide and source of ideas. I did that in one of my RL games where I adapted A Dozen and One Adventures from AD&D 2e's Al-Qadim setting. I ran it using a ruleset I wrote myself from scratch, and had to adapt every single monster and NPC, but it worked out well because I didn't try to follow the adventure exactly as written and my system was easy to adapt things to.
Thoughts?
I'm definitely up for trying some 5e!
The good thing I’ve seen about 5e is that there are pre-made stat blocks for a lot of generic things already made up that can be scavenged. Also, I do plan on using a module now. And it looks like it has a fair bit of adventuring and intrigue. Don’t remember it’s name off hand (at work) m, but it’s the two parter about a dragon cult.
As is it is designed to take place on the Sword Coast of Faerun, but I think I could convert it to Golarion easily enough. Or, if you guys want a jaunt to the Realms, I can do that too.
If anyone wants to utilize a Dragonborn character and we remain in Golarion, they will be a mysterious race that just came into some notice just recently. Many still would not trust them, mistaking them for lizardfolk likely at first. They would be viewed someone suspiciously, more so than say even an full Orc, due to their mysterious and sudden appearance.
I could return to the sword coast. Haven't been there since the early 2000s....
If we set it in 5e Faerun I might need to do a bit of background reading. 3e Sword Coast was a lot like northern Varisia/Southern Linnorm Kingdoms as I recall.
Basically was. Why I figure I can convert it just as easily as trying to brush up on Faerun lore.