Dwarves of Gold Peak

Game Master Nathanael Love

My view:

"You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade.

So you use it once, not once for each attack.

The kinetic blade deals your kinetic blast damage on each hit (applying any modifiers to your kinetic blast’s damage as normal, but not your Strength modifier).

Seems pretty clear, it affects all hits. Even if you use it only once.

Let's say that Gage casts haste and inspires Kragg. Kragg is in close combat. He has composite blast (1 burn) and metakinesis (1 burn), but he has infusion specialist which makes it -2 burn. So it's a composite blast with 1.5 damage on each.

As Dvalin said, Infusion Specialist only reduces Infusion costs by RAW. I have to say, though, that I know many GMs apply the reduction to the whole blast cost whenever you're using an infusion (so, composite blast, no reduction, composite blast plus an infusion, full reduction, but that's a home rule anyway).

Edit: Don't forget that Kinetic Blade also has a 1 point burn cost. It all adds up pretty fast.

You might see paying the Kinetic Blade infusion only once and having its effects apply to all attacks as a bit unfair, but well... we're talking about a class here that needs to hurt itself to deal its only trick and has nearly zero means of enhancing hit & damage with items. These little advantages only puts them on equal terms, and even then. They really need a revision, imho.

Thus said, your ruling goes over everything else.

I'm finding it all to be a bit...confusing, to be honest. And yes, it does seem like I have been unintentionally cheating. I had thought that Infusion Specialization would reduce the burn cost by 2, allowing me to do composite metakinesis blast.

But it seems like, indeed, that only reduces the cost of infusions. So, moving forward, here is what I have gathered.

(1) Kragg attacks someone. He uses Extended Range for a burn cost of 1 and Entangling Infusion, for a burn cost of 2. Infusion Specialization reduces the burn cost by -2, making it 0.
(2) Kragg stands still for Gather Power for -1 burn cost on anything. This allows him to use a composite blast without hurting himself, or metakinesis without hurting himself, but not both.
(3) If Kragg wants to do a composite blast with metakinesis, he has to take 1 point of burn to do so.

All of this means that Kragg will be doing about half the damage that he currently does. I can't see myself doing composite blast + metaknesis anymore, because as 2/3 BaB class, hurting myself for an attack that has a good chance of missing is just ridiculous unless it is a hail mary. For now on, Kragg will stick to basic cold blast + metakinesis, so he can reliably hit and deal damage without hurting himself.

Thanks for helping me figure this all out! It's not straight forward at all.

-----

GM, a question. Given how I now know that infusion specialization doesn't work the way that I thought it did, can I switch my lvl9 Quenching Infusion for Penetrating Infusion? I ask because (a) I've never used quenching infusion before and (b) I'll be using my basic cold blast *alot* more now, and penetrating infusion will actually be useful when doing so.

Kineticist is everything but straightforward, and it hurts me because I love the concept.

(Worse yet, the composite blasts mostly have burn cost of 2 - so even with gather power for -1 cost it would still give 1 burn, I think. But you could do a normal blast with metakinesis and gather power for 0.)

Also, yeah, I was sometimes surprised by the massive damage output you had, but i fully believe it was unintentional. It's a GM call but I think the usual handling is to let the player swap some choices around so the character remains effective...many decisions may have been made based on wrong assumptions, after all.

EDIT: I also second Tramontanes ninja-ing. I tried twice in the past to go make a kineticist, and both times didn't get around to do it.(Same as with Spirit Dancer Medium and some Occultist PRC I can't remember). Some classes have awesome concepts but are anything but 'straightforward' to work with.
(With a heavy workload and 3 little kids I simply don't have the time to "dive in" and spend the amount of hourse to get it right any more.)

Yeah, I've never had a Kineticist get to anything near this level before in more than a PFS table, so I sure was not tracking.

Yes- absolutely on rebuilding; we've had a fairly liberal rebuilding between "sessions"/at level break policy for this game so swapping one or two choices is no problem.

Ok, so rulings-

Now, what I am still stuck on is the combination of metakinesis or composite blast with the multiple attacks from Kinetic Blade-- when you get to 17th level it specifically states that when you use only have to pay for the modifications once, but that's with the 4 burn point version of the ability- so I can see it going the other way here since its the difference between a 1 and 4 burn ability (and the 1 burn ability is reduced to 0 cost and thus trivial).

But yes, as of now you absolutely have to accept burn each time you use a Composite Blast unless you use a full round gather power.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Sorry for the lag, we were hosting here and I made 14 different dishes so it was a big move the last few days!

To you as well! And everyone else to boot!

yay, belated happy thanksgiving xD

PREVIOUS XP 77,451
GAINED: 28,400
NEW XP TOTAL 105,851

Which will bring everyone to level 10.

Lvl 10! Going to level Kragg up...Monday probably. And will be rereading Kineticist. Again. Might want to just do a rebuild though, as the class just feels needlessly complicated.

Was thinking of changing Kragg into an elementalist shifter or something simpler. :p

Yay. Tentative Level Up - I'll take another look at Monday.

+9 HP
+1 BaB
+1 Will Save

Acrobatic Steps from Cinder Dance.
Hex: Witch Hex(Iceplant) - +2 natural armor for me+familiar, and constant endure elements.

+1 Level 4 Spell Slot.
+1 Level 5 Spell Slot.

Skills:

(Background) Perform(Oratory) +1
(Background) Linguistics +1 (Draconic)
+1 Perception
+1 Sense Motive
+1 Diplomacy
+1 Heal

Yay level 10! I've been busy and actually forgot to level up to 9 but I'll do these both at once.

Alright, so it's time you guys tell me. Would you want a redoing of Tramontane to be a cleric/oracle/somethingthatcures? This would free Dvalin's Wandering Spirit for any other task, and would make Tramontane way more useful (since all he's now is a weaker copy of Rubius, with less spells and utility).

Of course, GM would have to approve that.

If not, Tramontane would go into Monk 10th and pick Medusa's Wrath.

Yes, I'm fine with a rebuild if that's what you'd prefer.

Gage is pretty much at level 10, I believe

Biggest boosts:
Dimension Door & Wall of Sound (wewt!)
Versatile Performance -> Expanded Versatility -> 10 effective ranks in UMD

I can now use any wand, failing only on a nat 1 ^^
Next level, or whenever someone casts Eagle's Splendor on me... or if we can upgrade our gear before 11th level, I'll succeed even on a 1 >:3

Also, new spoiler:

Yes, I'm fine with a rebuild if that's what you'd prefer.

Thank you, GM.

What do you guys think? Will it be more useful that way? Is there any other thing you've missed in the group? Dvalin, are you okay with that?

I’ll think about your rebuild...I think that the question really comes down to how much fun Tram is to you and whether he does what you envision him too. Actual mechanical effectiveness is less important.

...as for mine, I’ve decided to switch to an Elementalist Shifter. I’m waiting for a GM ruling on somethings. But for the most part, the constant burn juggling and having too many class features doing similar things was just not fun. Doing my best to keep Kragg’s skills, stats and equipment as similar as possible

Ooh... my spontaneous caster self could learn aerial tracks right now as a 4th level spell to track this guy through the air... Tempting but probably too situational to be worth it. So hard to decide...

I am fine with whatever works for you :)

You are not stepping on my toes - one reason I went with Shaman was to be flexible, I did not intend to be primary healer, but I will likely often pick life regardless.

Next level, I'll have my power spike - just need to survive until then.
(That said, the melee caster part works out pretty nicely so far :)

Rubius is leveled up to 10 now. No big changes but 4th level spells are nice.

Alright, a question:

The Pei Zin Practicioner gains a feature similar to Lay on Hands. It states "counts as a paladin’s lay on hands ability for the purposes of feats, spells, and effects that work with that class feature", though only when healing.

Thing is, does it stack with LoH if there are also Paladin levels?

If not, is there a way to do it (feat, trait, whatever)? Paizo official, 3pp, homebrew?

The way I read it is that it is it's own separate feature, but it can be modified just like lay on hands. Kind of like how a hospitaler paladin who does VMC cleric can have 2 different channeling pools, both of which are modified by channeling feats.

I put *way* too much thought into it. But I've come up with my shifter build. To explain it: I see Kragg as being someone who had a natural connection to the elemental planes, and who let the power *out* to influence the world around him. Creating stone or ice out of thin air and sending it flying at his enemies, only for it to crumble and vanish after a round. Moving earth around, healing, etc. The change is now that the power is turned within. He no longer influences the world around him, but rather keeps the power within him and uses it to shape himself. So, with that in mind, here is the build: I'm breaking it down here both to make sure that I got everything correct, and so everyone knows what to expect.

WIP profile

Level 10
1d10 + 2 Con + 1 Toughness: 1d10 + 2 + 1 ⇒ (8) + 2 + 1 = 11
+1 BAB, +1 Fort, +1 Will

[u]Skills[/u]
+1 Disable Device
+1 Diplomacy
+1 Intimidate
+1 Knowledge (dungeoneering)
+1 Sense Motive
+1 Survival

+1 Craft (weapons)
+1 Knowledge (nobility)

[u]Dwarven Heritage[/u]
Superior Sight (Ex)
The mynrughdaer’s darkvision increases from 60 ft. to 90 ft. The mynrughdaer must have darkvision before he may choose this dwarven heritage trait.

Rock Steady (free feat) - Heroic Recovery

I believe Thurgrom is stabilized (thank you) but not conscious yet.

Thurgrom, it says you have AC 21
AC 21 (9 Touch, 21 FF)(-1 Dex, +10 Armor, +2 Shield)

But you have dex 10. So shouldn’t it be AC22?

Only noticed this when doing the rebuild. But wealth by level. At lvl9 we should have 46k work of gear and at lvl10 62k.

Here is what I have:
• Fey Ice Nimble Chain Shirt +1 (About 5k value)
• Buckler +1 (1155)
• Belt of Con +2 (2000 due to Rubius)
• Wayfinder with cracked pink and green Ioun Stone (900)
• Fighter’s Kit (9)
• Light Pick (4)
• Sleeves of Many Garments (200)
• Potion of See Invisibility (50)
• Ring of Protection +2 (8000)
* Cloak of Resistance +2 (4000)
* Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 (4000)
* 1257 gold

Total: 5000 + 1155 + 2000 + 900 + 9 + 4 + 200 + 50 + 8000 + 4000 + 4000 + 1257 = 26575

WBL differential lvl 9: 42000 - 26565 = 15435
WBL differential lvl 10: 62000 - 26565 = 35435

Didn't check everyone, but randomly chose Thurgrom. He has +1 armor too, but he still has mundane, non-masterwork dwarven waraxe and shield. He has no cloak of resistance, no amulet of natural armor, etc etc. But he does have a really cool cloak. Eyeballed the value of his items, and they seem to be about 25kish, just without anything that would help him in combat. Also eyeballed Dvalin who seems to be similar. Tramontane has about 17k work of gear, though his is more combat focused than Thurgrom's.

When doing this rebuild, I kept Kragg's items as similar as possible to what they were. But just wanted to make sure that the current PC wealth is what is expected.

I don't like either WBL assumptions or Automatic Bonus Progression- I find both simply inflate PCs to out-pace all possible encounters pretty badly and lead to the PFS style play where all your cool characters are just hoping that the enemies last long enough to get to do their thing once per scenario, and often not getting to do so.

Roger that. It’s why I ask

but- but- but infinity+1 shopping and rocket taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag
[insert useless whining sounds here]

...I mean- uh- sounds great :D

Aye, the wealth was a worry. When I rebuilt from Witch to Shaman, I had to drop the +4 Attribute Item we got from an enemy - it would have taken too much of the 25k allowance.

@WBL: Not sure I concur. As prices inflate along with the expected wealth, it's often just a difference of 2-4 AC or 1-3 attack/damage - just a gentle 'nudge' in favor of the party.
On the one hand, we do meet quite high-levelled encounters(thus also get a lot of XP), but on the other, we are a 6-Dwarf-Party rather than 4 which eases up on the action economy.

I think it would be a good compromise if our TOTAL wealth, as party, would be around the expectation for a 4-person party of our level.
So 4 PC's would be 62k each, or 248k total - divided by 6 that would be 41.3k - which is about 15k more than we're worth currently.
Spending all of that on Rubius crafting, I could afford to upgrade one of my +2 items(dual attribute) to a +4 version. No more, no less.
Or I could upgrade my Weapon from +1 to +2, and my armor from +1 to +2, for 9000k spend and 6000 left for fancy other stuff(maybe 5500 GC(2750 GC if Rubius crafts) for Boots of Striding and Springing - I like being a fast Dwarf.)
What I'm trying to say: I got Overland Flight for 10 hours going, and as swift action enhance my weapon with a stacking +2(+3 next level) from Arcane Pool. The options are not really 'breaking' stuff.
Just trying to showcase SOME more budget to mess around with would be appreciated.
If you are worried about power creep, another option would be to place a upper limit on the price of individual items, so we'd maybe see some more utility wands, or rods, or obscure wondrous items, because the 'powerful' compulsories are locked.

Ultimately, of course, it is up to GM and as such your decision. Just petitioning you to consider the options, as having more money to spend on stuff is also a fun aspect of improving and rounding out the character.

Yes- I understand, and there will certainly be some spots where more "liquid" gold is included, but keep in mind you also have a lot of you're party "wealth" tied up in items which aren't as easy to quantify- like the Blood Angel Prism/Elemental Summoning Devices (and the reward at the end of THIS chain is a singular very expensive axe) for instance--

But the critique is heard and I will make sure to plan in some more fungible loot in the near future.

Thurgrom is used to being the diplomatic damage sponge. With the troops constantly putting our fires, we don't get much chance to get rich and h0es. Nobody gets paid well to save the world.

Aye - not complaining :) The "extra" items are very flavorful and awesome.
But as you say, singular in nature. One person will use that Legendary Axe. One person has the Blood Angel Prism.
And I'm prone to not using e.g. the Elemental Devices until things seem hopeless otherwise. I admid I'm a hoarder :) My fault.
So yeah, it is critique, but meant in a constructive way in that some "pocket money" would be awesome. Heck, I'm also fine if you save up another level and hand out a set of custom-tailored items that give us versatility rather than power. *shrugs*

I just feel (maybe due to Kraggs damage output before Kineticist review, and Rubius's bane-shotting) that this game demands a certain level of optimization, which is why I felt compelled to swap away from Witch in the first place. Less money just gives less wiggle room on that optimization, which may be why people try to rebuild to get out more mileage, when otherwise there is some room for compensation by throwing money at an issue. :)

As said, thanks for listening, just wanted to state again that I simply wanted to express my opinion, and make clear that it was not in any form a complaint about how you decide to handle this.

@Tramontane- they don't seem to exactly stack, but it seems like they effectively should- the only catch would be if you spent a use to harm undead you would not get to count the dice from Pei Zin Petitioner but would still expend a use.

No worries, I decided against multiclassing, since it cuts of not only LoH progression but also casting. I'll miss Divine Grace, but that's life (coming from a future a Life Oracle xD).

On gear: U think the most logical thing to do is rebuild my gear keeping the same amount as when I first built Tramontane, which was 20k (if there's a discordance it's maybe because I paid Rubius sobre extra yo craft several items). That way we're all even.

It would be cool if we had extra cash since I did take a crafting feat. I probably shouldn't have if I'd known that we would favor fun flavor over flashy flexibility for wealth.

Well I don't know about you, but I'm picking quite useful items myself, some of them I'd probably asked Rubius to craft (paying the customary 10% fee).

Also, we had a character able to craft magic weapons and armor, didn't we?

Tram has become quite the healer!

Oxnard, how long does it take the party to get back to civilization? I'm trying to figure out if Thurgrom ever regained consciousness during that time and I need to start rolling Constitution saves to see if he start healing on his own.

Both places are within the same city, but presumptively you would be healed back to consciousness along the way.

Hasty, Kragg :P I simply did not have Dispel prepared, but I was reasonably confident I could remove the magic myself.
I would instead have liked to push for her to increase our reward, rather than do something we could easily take care of ourselves after a day of rest.(which incidentally also allows me to swap back to Life Spirit, giving us plenty of healing as well with Tram...)

Hasty, Kragg :P I simply did not have Dispel prepared, but I was reasonably confident I could remove the magic myself.

I would instead have liked to push for her to increase our reward, rather than do something we could easily take care of ourselves after a day of rest.(which incidentally also allows me to swap back to Life Spirit, giving us plenty of healing as well with Tram...)

Hasty indeed. But I wanted to make the dragon do *something* for us. Because up until this point it's been on us. And as for a reward...I really don't think that we can get anything else out of her. We know that this axe is of legendary status, and even getting that out of her is in no way guaranteed. I think that our best bet of getting other items/gold out of this is to take a five fingered discount from the corpses of the enemies we kill.

Plus, this just saved us a spell slot. :) Because if we are heading out to fight them tomorrow, then any spells we use to heal ourselves up / remove magic, just means more spell slots not available to us come time for the assault.

Gage has 15 unspent spell slots, so that's up to 15 CLWs for everyone. He'll want at least 19 hp himself, so:
CLW: 1d8 + 5 ⇒ (7) + 5 = 12
CLW: 1d8 + 5 ⇒ (4) + 5 = 9

Which leaves 13 CLW for you guys. Maybe a few for Tremontane? Is your tagline correct? do you have 1/103 hp before we rest? o.o
Start with 5...
CLW (Tremontane): 5d8 + 25 ⇒ (5, 8, 8, 1, 6) + 25 = 53
maybe another 3...
CLW (Tremontane): 3d8 + 15 ⇒ (7, 8, 6) + 15 = 36
this should do it:
CLW (Tremontane): 1d8 + 5 ⇒ (8) + 5 = 13
that's a max roll, so it'll actually get you to full, not just within 10hp of max.

Thurgrom keeps going on about being unconscious, maybe he should get the last 4:
CLW (Thurgrom): 4d8 + 20 ⇒ (2, 3, 6, 5) + 20 = 36

Gage..Thank you!!!

@Reward - she got the Axe cheap, and we know that.
And she warned us against taking anything there from anybody we slay(and her minions flooded the place right after). Not sure stealing works out fine.
I figured telling her that for endangering us and as compensation for the expenses, she'd have to add more to the reward if she wants us to see things through - would have been a nice option for GM to add some monetary loot after the discussion about WBL earlier.

Don't get me wrong, you posted faster and it's all good, just wanted to state what I was actually going for.

@Healing: Aye, I was under the impression he would be willing to talk with us, and didn't swap configuration - apologies, I should have expected trouble...so that one's on me.
I did have 2 CLW's prepared though which I would also spend before resting.

Tawny?: 1d8 + 5 ⇒ (3) + 5 = 8
Me: 1d8 + 5 ⇒ (7) + 5 = 12

Point of order- what's your alignment Kragg?

Lawful Neutral...sorry, should have put that in. But Kragg is all about his duty to Clan and Hold.

+5 Holy, Shocking Burst, Thundering, Called Dwarven Waraxe with SLAs! A truly legendary weapon!

That is truly one hell of a weapon. It's as Heavy Metal as it can be, Manowar would be proud.

That is truly one hell of a weapon. It's as Heavy Metal as it can be, Manowar would be proud.

For the Black Wind, Fire & Steel