Dwarves of Gold Peak

Game Master Nathanael Love

Well, things that could help:

Resist Energy (specific for each elemental)
Displacement
Clayskin/Stoneskin (though maybe they'll be able to ignore it)

For Tramontane, specifically:
Mage Armor (we have a wand)
Reduce Person

And, of course, Haste.

As for cleric buffs, well, tons of them... though probably Shield of Faith is the winner here, given his level.

Just listing likely possibilities-

Wizard spells-
4th level (4) Protection from Energy Communal, Stoneskin
3rd level (5) haste, Displacement, Protection from Energy (96 damage absorbed), Resist energy communal
2nd level (5) Resist energy
1st level (5) Mage Armor

Cleric Spells
1st level (3) Bless (party- +1 attack/damage), shield of faith x2 (+2 AC)

Fly might be handy for some of us? I can do Haste, though I suppose an extra use of Fear would be better...
Invisibility might be good too, though I'd rather hanve Resist Energy and Protection from Energy to protect us from fire and... cold? lightning?
so maybe we just want Resist Energy fro 2nd level spells xD
Anticipate Peril would be very nice to have. Probably better than Mage Armor for most of us. In fact, we have a wand of the spell which should be fine, so if we can get 5 of that +5 to imitative spell...

Fly is very, very nice for Rubius. Displacement and shield of faith would be nice on Tawny.

And haste is always needed.

Remember that we need to tank the elementals, guys.

Wizard spells-
4th level (4) Stoneskin x4
3rd level (5) haste, Displacement, Fly, Fly,
2nd level (5) Resist energy (x5)
1st level (5) Anticipate Peril (x5)

Cleric Spells
1st level (3) Bless (party- +1 attack/damage), shield of faith x2 (+2 AC)

If that alignment looks good, you can decide who gets which buffs/elements and what other of your own buffs you want to use before entering.

(And also who wants to start where on the map- slide is up: if you can't tell what an elemental is by the picture let me know)

I think Gage will be okay with just the full team buffs and Anticipate Peril. That +5 to initative will help him get the illusory box ready before the soon-to-be-boxed elemental can attack.

Maybe I'm not following but we can KO the elementals, right? We don't have to keep them alive/conscious?

Correct- you kill the elements but have to keep them separated until you d

Ok that sounds good. Will make it a little tricky to focus fire but we can do it.

Placed on map. Will take displacement.

Burn will probably be a thing, so we'll probably all want Resist Fire (except Gage and gunman 'cause we're ranged?). Then we can save the fire elemental for last and hopefully ignore its annoying burn attack xD

Just Haste and Anticipate Peril (for net +10 initiative) for Gage :3

May we assume that we are all fully rested/healed before this fight?

Yes- you're starting this in the morning and between your casters could have healed everyone back to full before sleeping.

Nice. That gives me more burn to play with in blowing up the elemental(s). :)

Also I'll take fly. As against earth elementals that is a -4 to hit and -4 damage penalty. In essence, that will make Dragg AC 31 with DR8.

Also, does my cold blast overcome normal DR? I'm pretty sure earth elementals, like Kragg, have DR/ something. Because if cold gets through that, then it would make sense for Kragg to rely on that blast.

Pretty sure our wizardly-friend would know the answers to these, or Khazuk. Hence why I'm asking.

All of the elementals as elder elementals have Dr 10/-, so any attack that does physical damage (piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning) is less effective.

Cold Blast does cold damage so its subject to energy resistance instead of damage reduction so it should be good to by pass everything there (and more effective against fire/magma).

I just realized I missed the ice elemental- I guess that only air, earth, fire, water, aether, mud, magma, and lightning are rampaging up here, not ice for whatever reason.

Spells from Darius that have been claimed:

Wizard spells-
4th level (4) Stoneskin x2, resist energy communal (fire, party) extra displacement (Kragg)
3rd level (5) haste (party), Displacement (Tawny), Fly (Rubius), Fly (Kragg),
2nd level (5) Resist energy (x5)
1st level (5) Anticipate Peril (x5) (I used these on all but Rubius who already had the fastest)

Cleric Spells
1st level shield of faith x3 (Tawny, ??) (+2 AC)

Used resist energy communal for fire- so that will give everyone (lizard included) fire resistance 10.

Still has 2x Stoneskin (or other 4th level or lower spell), 5 individual resist energies (might want to match these to the type you stand bu), and two Shield of Faith (or other 1st level cleric spell) to use (since Thurgrom cast bless at a higher caster level)

maybe we should get resist electricity from those 5 uses of Resist Energy? Probably everyone but the lizard, Gage and... Kragg doesn't melee so much, right? xD

@Oxnard: the war chant is a standard to start, right? Does it require an action to maintain it? A free action like bard song perhaps? Can I have it going while I use bard song at the same time? :3

If I can have a bard song + the war chant going at the same time, then I'd like to do that. Maybe it'd have to be a song + act combo for the chant + bardic performance?

yes, it's standard to start/free to maintain like Bardic Music- I suppose you could, yes- but I think there is morale bonuses not stacking issue, right?

there is for the saves, gwahahhahaha.
Also I'm not going to use Inspire Courage this time 'round xD

I'm going to make TWO boxes with the power of Spellsong and... um... give everyone +1 to hit if we don't cast bless for that same +1?
Unless they want the +1 to hit from bless instead?
At least we wouldn't have to worry about if bless affects an area or people in an area? xD

Yeah inspire courage grants competence bonuses for to hit and damage.

Yes Tawny would love shield of faith.

BTW, we're 6 dwarves, a lizard, and a cat + summons, right? Maybe Gage should cast Haste after all xD
or two castings of haste from our wizard friend instead of more stoneskin? xD

also, I forgot to ask: how do I recharge the blood angel thing? or will I just touch it occasionally for d8 damage? xD

Yes, you just touch it when she is not manifest and accept the damage- probably a swift action to do so.

(while she is manifest she can only regain charges through the panache like blood pool ability I gave her)

Darius can get everyone except any summons other than the blood angel in one casting of haste.

Summons will be fine without haste. This encounter is going to be insane. I'm not sure how we'll survive this many elder elementals at once. But I suggest we try to take some of them out with focused fire immediately, before they can do anything. Taking them out fast is also my only idea for keeping them separated...

GM: How high is the ceiling?

I just realized that if Gage and Ali are lucky, then they can hold off 3 elementals while you guys kill the other 5 xD

We'll be on the left side, hoping we don't die :D

@GM: I second the question about the ceiling height. Might make a difference in how I use Silent Image since I only get 11 10' cubes (also, the edges of the map prevent movement too, right?)
Also, should I control Ali? Or would you like to handle her actions in your posts? (technically GM should decide what henchmen etc do, but if it's easier for you I can use this shiny new alias for more than just reference... also I didn't spend a whole lot of time looking for the image, so let me know if you find a better one)

@Dvalin & Tremontane: please place yourselves on the map
pick a spot that helps keep elementals from hugging eachother! xD
Maybe the lantern archons should risk pew-pewing an elemental or 2 that no one else is fighting?

Yup, sorry. I was reading the thread yesterday night and my eyes didn't even allow me to finish reading, let alone post xD

I'll place myself in the map in about half an hour (when the wifey finishes her s*#* with the computer :p)

Also, buffs:
-Mage Armor from wand
-Stoneskin
-Barkskin (self)
-Shield of Faith
-Haste
-Resist Energy (Fire)
-Weapon of Awe
-Bless
-Aid

Am I forgetting something?

Oh yeah definitely mage armor on Tawny if I forgot to mention that.

Bless and Aid are both morale bonuses.
Also you'll probably want resist energy (electricity) since we all have protection from energy, communal (fire, 96/96)

Sorry missed the ceiling height question-

It's 60 ft. high and the elementals have space and reach of 15 so there are spaces at 35, 40, 45, 50, and 55 where you are out of reach of the non-flying elementals (but of course about half of them can fly).

I guess only Tawny got the +2 deflection from Shield of Faith, then?
Ali could use the +2 AC to get her upto 26. Then she can Combat Expertise (boosted by Swordplay Style) to get up to 31 AC and stand a tiny chance of dodging something xD

He had 3 Shield of Faith available, we assigned one to Tawny but the other two were still unclaimed I believe

I’ve got a ring +2, so the spell wouldn’t help me.

Also I’m flying just high enough to be attacked. Want to be able to 5ft step out of reach if my Hp gets low.

It's in my list of buffs, so you can count on me claiming one of them.

I'll calculate the total AC and put it in the alias for easy reading, GM :P

Edit: Done. I've written AC 33(+4), which means normal AC now is 33 but T gets to add a further +4 for one turn if he spends 1 Ki. Since I don't know if that will be a constant, i've used the parenthesis.

Tramontane: The lantern archons cast and recast aid at will so everyone got the max 11 hp from them.

Gage: Could you start a bardsong as a move action on your turn? That'd really help.

Oh, FFS.
I was waiting back on an answer from GM on a Direct Message I never sent according to my sent-folder :/
(That, and I was postponing catching up several times since this is the ONLY game moving swiftly right now - that one is entirely on me. Apologies - I'll check now and make sure to post later today)

No worries Dvalin!

And everyone can start at the max from aid except the angel since her duration is measured in rounds they only have time to hit her one round before you enter.

They would make it 64/67, then. With 1d8+3 temp hp each turn and DR 10 on each strike, it seems Tramontane had the combat more or less under control.

You could get those temp hpz every round if Rubius has one hugging you the whole time instead of shooting with its 1d6 DR ignoring beams...

Gage: Could you start a bardsong as a move action on your turn? That'd really help.

I'd love to, but I'm about to start spamming Fear, Pyrotechnics, and/or making a second box (which requires concentration), which I suspect will help even more.

And everyone can start at the max from aid except the angel since her duration is measured in rounds they only have time to hit her one round before you enter.

Very True :3

Well it's 2d6 per round for the archons since they get to zap twice and it improves my accuracy by 3 due to volley fire.

Ah nice. Spellsong is cool. But it looks like you can do it while you have another performance on? Or are you referring to GM interpreted otherwise. The spell description isn't 100% clear to me, I'll admit.

I can only have one bardic performance active at a time.
If my performance is for the concentration, then that's it.

If the GM changes his mind, and concentration became part of an already existing performance, then I would've wanted to start the performance last round. I also would only need to spend a single extra round of performance in that case, and the rest would be spent normally. Also, if I wanted to burn through all my bardic performance very quickly, I could cast Silent Image each round, spending one extra round of bardic performance each, and concentrate on a large number of spells for a few rounds. Granted, that's going supernova and spending most of my daily resources to do so, but still xD

Welcome back, Dvalin ^^

Thanks - lets hope it works out this time around :)

GM? I think spellsong sounds like it's incorporated into an existing performance, thus you spend 2 performance rounds per combat round, but it's up to you.

By the wording, it's just +1 round of bardic performance and casting a spell to... use a bardic performance to handle concentration. Whether that's its own performance, or part of another one xD

Sorry guys my phone died today; I'll get the update a bit later on.

Yes- I obviously didn't explain how I thought it worked well-

I was under the impression that you cast the spell, then started spellsong, then could start another performance.

Sorry for the confusion.

Second, as a move action, you can use 1 round of bardic performance to maintain a bard spell with a duration of concentration. You can cast another spell in the same round you are using bardic magic to maintain concentration; if you do this, your concentration on the maintained spell ends when you end the bardic performance the spell is part of.

First line simply states that as move action you can use 1 round of bardic performance to maintain concentration - rather than a standard action.

Then it says that you may cast another spell in a round where you use this ability to maintain concentration.
In that case, you HAVE to keep using the ability to maintain concentration - you cannot stop spending bardic performance and take concentration over as standard action. It becomes bound to the bardic performance and ends with it.
(Also note that since you need to spend a move action to use the ability, you could only maintain 2 spells in that way, or you'd run out of move actions.)

In summary: it gives you a way to spend your bardic performance, and it uses a move action each round to do so. But it does not define a new type of bardic performance that would be mutually exclusive with a regular bardic performance.
Considering it burns through bardic performance rounds and takes a Feat, it would be illogical to read additional restrictions into this ability when they are not clearly stated.
As Exhibit a, I present Raging Brutality, which allows to spend additional rounds of rage do do something extra during your rage - but does not otherwise alter the normal operation of rage.
In a similar way, this allows you to do something extra(at the cost of a move action and a round of performance), but does not otherwise alter the normal operation of bardic performance.

Or that's my reading. (Obviously GM Call, of course, but wanted to weigh in as well).

EDIT: Ninjaed by GM for 3 minutes. Whatever, I'll still keep the post :D

In any case, the wording is terrible and I'm happy with pretty much any ruling xD
I mostly wanted it in case of intrigue, but having two silent images up seems super handy for this fight, so... I need a ruling on some annoying wording. But I'm happy with just about any ruling as long as we agree how it should work xD

To quote it again so I don't have to keep scrolling up (and also so the Benefit section is here):

Prerequisites: Cha 13, bardic performance class ability, able to cast 1st-level spells.

Benefit: You can combine your bardic performance and your spellcasting in two ways.

First, you can conceal the activity of casting a bard spell by masking it in a performance. As a swift action, you may combine your casting time of a spell with a Perform check. Observers must make a Perception or Sense Motive check opposed by your Perform check to realize you are also casting a spell. This uses 1 round of your bardic performance ability, regardless of the spell’s casting time.

Second, as a move action, you can use 1 round of bardic performance to maintain a bard spell with a duration of concentration. You can cast another spell in the same round you are using bardic magic to maintain concentration; if you do this, your concentration on the maintained spell ends when you end the bardic performance the spell is part of.

there's a big problem here: what does "your concentration on the maintained spell ends when you end the bardic performance the spell is part of" mean?

There also isn't any specification of what bardic performance the spell is part of. No mention of needing to be performing one of them before using the ability, or getting a new one.

The first sentence could be construed as not requiring you to have a bardic performance already going (the first option the feat gives doesn't interact with the bardic performance class feature...). Based on the third and final clause, that would make it the beginning of a bardic performance that isn't ever specified directly. Which is my understanding of what the GM ruled earlier.

It could also be construed that the earlier mention of bardic performance in the benefit section means that the 1 round of bardic performance mentioned in the second part needs to be spent during an existing performance. After all, "You can combine your bardic performance and your spellcasting..."
That being the case, the last two clauses might refer to using a second bard spell to somehow weave the earlier one requiring concentration into the existing bardic performance. Thus the concentration might be handled as part of the free action to maintain the performance.

@Dvalin: while I like your interpretation somewhat on the grounds that it's the least powerful interpretation on a feat with two options, I also have a hard time believing that a feat with neither errata nor FAQ was written that badly. Surely they could've written "if you do so, you must continue to use this ability to maintain concentration on the spell until the end of the bardic performance this spell is part of."

Well, I took my cue from the fact that you regularily need to use a Standard Action each round to maintain concentration on a spell.
Nothing about the Feat changes that, it only gives you the chance to, instead of a standard action, to use a move action and 1 round of bardic performance to instead maintain a concentration-duration-spell.
So, it gives a different means of doing this, with needed time lowered one step, but an additional cost added.
So you can EITHER spend a standard action to concentrate, OR spend a move action plus bardic performance to concentrate.
It does not suggest if you do this once, then the rules for concentrating on spells change beyond what is stated, or that no further concentration is needed in later rounds. You simply maintain it for this round.
However, if you DO cast another spell in the same round, then your concentration-spell is linked to the bardic performance and when you stop maintaining concentration using it, the spell ends.
This is interesting insofar as you could do different standard actions other than casting a spell. So you could cast an illusion with duration concentration, then next round maintain the concentration via bardic performance and perform, say, a Vital Strike attack, then the next round go back to using a standard action to maintain concentration and move somewhere else.
It is ONLY if you cast another spell in the same round you use this feat to maintain concentration that you MUST use the bardic performance.
(Supposedly to avoid shenanigans where you could use ambigious wording to maintain concentration on multiple spells simultaneously using only one action - that is, to avoid using this to get several spells going, then swap back to regular concentration and maintain them indefinitely.)

Regarding the expense each round: Assuming that it does NOT block other bardic performances, it would scale up extremeley strong as a free 'rider' effect if there was only a one-time cost to bind it. It would also need to specify what kind of action it would take in subsequent rounds - because maintaining a bardic performance is free. So if it was not a cost/round then it would effectively make maintaining concentration a free action - which would also allow any number of simultaneous free "rider" effects on a bardic performance that can last longer and longer each level.
There is another Feat, Effortless Trickery which is a racial, limited to one school of magic, and takes your swift action each round.
Considering our Feat effectively only has a class-restriction and the additional benefit of hiding casting, it would seem VERY weird if it was going with free actions for concentration.

Again, my personal opinion.

So does this mean that Gage started an inspire courage last round?