Heroes of Iblydos: A Tale of Gods and Men

Game Master Isora of Solaria

I was actually looking into the Spheres of Might a bit ago, and there's a lot of neat things in there (primarily in the snipe and barrage spheres). But I'm unsure if its worth dropping one of the classes I'm using right now, seeing as I've got a pretty good synergy going on right now, and can almost do the same thing.

*shrugs* I guess if I need to change something, I'll have options.

I've been lurking through the recruitment so far, enjoying reading the various submissions, and considering different options...but I feel like a group of Epic Hero-Gods In Training really need a Bard to write ballads about their glorious deeds.

I thought about someone from Iblydos, but I like the idea of someone trained in Golarion, who's journeyed to Fabled Iblydos to learn the tales of the Hero Gods, and write new ones. He'll be a devotee of Shelyn, the Eternal Rose, and a lover of beauty and glory.

Still torn on second class, but I think I'll either go Incanter (with Performance based casting) to make my Bard even Bardier...or add an archery focused martial class (perhaps Paladin (Parzivalian Knight archetype) of the Eternal Rose? Perhaps a Conscript, focused more on utility and support?) Whatever I choose, I want him to feel first-and-foremost like an iconic Bard.

DM (when you get a breath of fresh air), I know there was a conversation upthread about using pre-errata versions of certain feats. What's your ruling on Divine Protection? (The original version was probably too powerful for vanilla PF...but I suspect it fits well with the power level of this game, and all the various 3p material that's included.)

Depending on what you're looking for from bard and what you're looking for from archery, an Arrowsong Minstrel Bard/Hooded Champion Ranger would have some decent synergy. It would end up being more archer than bard though, more than likely.

Sounds like I need to take the time to learn the spheres system and see what I can do with it.

Don't know that I'l have the time in the short-term, though.

I can relate - I've never played with DSP or Spheres before, so there's a lot of new crunch and flavor to investigate. I've been thinking about trading out the Bloodrager side of Makonta wholesale for Armorist from spheres of power, for example. I'm just not sure what I can do with limited caster level within the spheres system. On the other hand, the Aegis looks cool too.... So many options!

@hustonj: I think that Spheres is easy to learn. Basically, you pick spells like you pick feats. Some can be improved (like feat chains), and they're either free or you have to pay from your daily resource pool. That's about all there is to the basics of the system. XD If you picked up Vancian casters at all, you'll probably pick up Spherecasters much faster.

@River: Characters with low caster levels do best with powers that don't rely on caster level to function well. You can also look into enchanting something as a Sphere Staff, which can raise your Caster Level with a particular sphere.

All Paizo races are allowed? Even monstrous (over 20 RP) ones?

Okay, I think I'm just going to have to assume that all of the requests for my character was allowed and go ahead and make them... with only 3 days left in recruitment, I don't think I can wait around and hope the DM answers affirmative and still have time to make a strong character!

Here's Tavius. He's a spherecaster, but in play he's more like a monk. Fast, lots of melee attacks, good defenses (with everything up), good senses.

Decided to stick with what I was more familiar with for now. Updated on the assumption that Bloodrider with a Large Wolf (planning towards Noxious Bite) and a Medium rider, and something like the Combat Medic martial tradition are all a go. Also corrected a couple errors I found.

Getting excited for the 9th! Breath has a super-tough job ahead of him/her!

Getting excited for the 9th! Breath has a super-tough job ahead of him/her!

Indeed! I love the concepts and it will be lots of fun to see what sort of party ends up getting put together. After the latest round of tweaking (I just discovered Muscular Reflexes to replace Combat reflexes, hurrah!) I think that Gosor is probably finished up, but the deadline will help make that actually true. Mind you, if he gets in, I'm sure that the future progression that I've been mapping out will be changed many many times.

Can you give me some feedback on my Poseidon/Aquaman based Trident Fighter with a water theme?

@shontar: With two days left to go, you probably want to focus on fluff... He did say we're allowed to adjust crunch after selection. That said, piranha strike doesn't do anything, we get power attack for free from eitr. Also I don't think the shield bonus from dervish defender stacks with a regular shield.

@shontar: With two days left to go, you probably want to focus on fluff... He did say we're allowed to adjust crunch after selection. That said, piranha strike doesn't do anything, we get power attack for free from eitr. Also I don't think the shield bonus from dervish defender stacks with a regular shield.

good catch with power attack, I forgot that.

the dervish defender improves her shield bonus to AC by an amount equal to her aegis bonus.
doesn't this clearly state, my shield bonus, wherever it comes from, is improved?

At a quick Google, I got the pfsrd20 entry. It says the Dervish Defender's Two Weapon Defense requires light or no armor, no shield greater than a buckler, and either wielding a weapon in each hand or a dual weapon.

As a note, if you are wielding a weapon, you don't get the buckler's shield bonus, anyway.

So, yeah, it matters where any existing shield bonus comes from.

And the Aegis bonus not only isn't a shield bonus, but the Warder gets no direct benefit from it. His close allies do instead.

And the archetype says you get the initiation bonus to your shield bonus, not the Aegis bonus.

And another edit . . .. The Dervish Defender does NOT have Shield Proficiency, so you don't qualify to take those shield feats.

Then we can get into the question of whether the GM will allow you to count the buckler as a weapon. This is not a trivial assumption.

At a quick Google, I got the pfsrd20 entry. It says the Dervish Defender's Two Weapon Defense requires light or no armor, no shield greater than a buckler, and either wielding a weapon in each hand or a dual weapon.

check

As a note, if you are wielding a weapon, you don't get the buckler's shield bonus, anyway.

only if I wielded a weapon in the same hand as the buckler and attacked with it. Attacking with the shield is covered by Improved Shield Bash.

And the Aegis bonus not only isn't a shield bonus, but the Warder gets no direct benefit from it. His close allies do instead.

correct for the aegis class feature, but Shield of Blades is a completely new class feature

And the archetype says you get the initiation bonus to your shield bonus, not the Aegis bonus.

no, it says initiation bonus to Armor Class, not shield. It works mostly like the monk ac bonus.

And another edit . . .. The Dervish Defender does NOT have Shield Proficiency, so you don't qualify to take those shield feats.

wow, good catch. what an oversight from me!

Then we can get into the question of whether the GM will allow you to count the buckler as a weapon. This is not a trivial assumption.

covered by Buckler Bash

It seems, I need to take either shield proficiency as a feat, or drop the sword-and-board style I was hoping for. The overall theme works just as good with only a trident. Maybe Spear Dancing Style is an option...
I have the fluff and background finished and as was noted before, crunch is less urgent. But a lot of knowledgable people are lurking in this thread - that's a resource to be exploited.

RAW says that shields aren't weapons and can't be enchanted ss though they were.

You have assumed that the GM will agree that a feat which allows you to attack with something changes what it actually is.

Improvised weapons have stats, too, right?

I don't know if the GM will agree with you or not. But that's a pretty big assumption to build the character around like you have.

I probably should have focused on my fluff as well... but, as it is. Have some Crunch for my character, Arcantos the Storyteller.

General fluff is that they've always been more curious than the other Oread's in which he grew with and was often exploring the mountains. Eventually, he found Ace, who was isolated from his pack due to his intelligence and affinity with lighting and bonded with him. Further exploration of the mountains led to a cave, with a crystal bookmark residing within. Upon finding it, knowledge flooded him. Knowledge of a wider world out there, one that needed heroes and beings... and with the bookmark's gift, he could become one of those heroes.

So he, alongside Ace, left home in order to set out in the open world and become legends.

A nice Age of Mythology reference.

Should I be worried that we're three days away from the deadline and the GM seems a bit too afk?

He did say that he'd be gone for a few days, and it's now the weekend, so I think he's still around.

I’d kinda like to firm up Aleks’s background, but I don’t really know much about Iblydos. I thought about tying him into a Hero-God of my own creation, but it’s a little late to work that out with the GM. Hopefully I can do so on the other side of the selection if I get picked.

Iblydos doesn't have much info in general, aside from what's publicly available on the wiki. XD Basically, just think "Golarion's Greece" and go from there.

Mhhh, since the GM is away and the deadline closes and my alternative build (as tree of life) depends on some GM fiat ...
I guess I'll leave Quercus as-is (finishing him up as I type) and leave the option open.
GM may decide to throw me a bone a go down that route if I get selected and I can rebuild before starting the game.
Otherwise I'm still happy with Quercus as mentor-type (spreading teamwork feats in an aura and offering group-wide smite for a few rounds a day sounds like a mentor-type, yes?)

Breath of the Gods, on reading and re-reading Aenia's backstory and personality listing, I decided that, much like the Greek Heroes of old, the godling should have a hubris, or drawback. I choose Vainglory, due to his unique social stature. Hedonistic would make more sense, but I think the Paramortal II divine trait would make the drawback obsolete.

A nice Age of Mythology reference.

Actually, that's Arkantos, and the reference isn't intentional.

There is no practical difference between c and k in this case. But anyway. Where did you took the name from? I've always thought it was custom made for AoM.

@all: I am struggling whether to swap to quadrupped base form for the eidolon or to keep biped.
Quad has access to stronger evolutions but starts with 2 strength less (but gets more dex). Especially rake is very strong due to its nice synergy with grapple specialisation I am going for. That one alone basically tripples my grapple damage compared to as-is.
Fluff-wise I am trying to get a picture of how he would appear.
I though something like still-biped-but-legs-split-up-into-two-legs-each.
So less groot, but more something like this but with roughly humanoid torso and head.
Thoughts?

I like the vision of the biped version much better, honestly.

Yeah me too.
It is just .... frustrating that it lacks any of the sweet evolutions the snake/quad can take.
I mean come on, why can't a biped with too many claws Rend something he has locked in a grapple like a quad can?
It is not like the biped would get any cool toys that would make it broken compared to the other two if allowed to take rake...

Go with your character vision. Perhaps it won't be the most utterly optimized build possible, but the flavor is more important.

Besides, a munchkin tends to have a shorter lifespan than an interesting character anyways, due to GM plot armor ;)

So less groot, but more something like this but with roughly humanoid torso and head.
Thoughts?

I. AM. GROOT!

Quercus Thousandborn wrote:

So less groot, but more something like this but with roughly humanoid torso and head.
Thoughts?

I. AM. GROOT!

Hahaha, looking at your post history, do you have a crawler searching the forums for matching mentions only to post a Groot one-liner at the appropriate places? ;-)

At this level it's highly unlikely to run into creatures that easily bypass alignment based DR. The only exceptions are paladins/antipaladins, and certain casters (usually divine) who have come prepared for such a combat.

Alignment-based DR is the 3rd strongest form, behind DR/- and DR/Epic.

DR/chaotic is probably stronger due to the decreased chance of typical enemies being able to overcome it, but DR/evil is usually more thematically appropriate. Normally do-gooders go around screaming about evil and chopping the heads off evil creatures. That's not to say the zealous lawful types don't exist (ex: every hellknight ever), but being opposed to chaos is much stranger than evil, because that means you would also be opposed to CG creatures and actions.

My two copper pieces anyways. This is my opinion and by no means an accepted hegemonic view.

Fun fact about alignment-based DR: Celestials (and fiends in turn) are actually able to bypass DR/evil with any of their natural attacks. Why? Because they have DR/evil themselves, and any natural attacks from a creature with DR counts as able to overcome that DR. So just keep in mind that when the forces of the upper and lower planes meet in battle, neither of their inherent resistance actually does anything against their sworn enemies.

@Campin: the fluff point is (once again) a good one. Although I can actually see Quercus being quite fierce about order (there is the real chance to get eaten otherwise for Ghorans after all) but even stronger opposed to evil-doers.

@Daedalus: I don't think that this is entirely correct (the end-effect is, but not the way it works).
They can bypass it because they have the appropriate sub-type (good/evil/chaos/order) which lets them bypass the DR.
Having alignment DR does NOT let one auto-bypass (at least I would need a quote that it does - which would make me happy and I'd pick DR/evil any day if it allows me to bypass DR/good).
The end-effect always baffled me too, because the ONE time, they probably REALLY need their DR, it doesn't work. *lol* #youhadonejob

Fun fact about alignment-based DR: Celestials (and fiends in turn) are actually able to bypass DR/evil with any of their natural attacks. Why? Because they have DR/evil themselves, and any natural attacks from a creature with DR counts as able to overcome that DR. So just keep in mind that when the forces of the upper and lower planes meet in battle, neither of their inherent resistance actually does anything against their sworn enemies.

Although your conclusion is correct, your reasoning is a bit off. Creatures gain the ability to overcome alignment based DR from having alignment descriptors, not having DR themselves.

Link

Evil Subtype
This subtype is usually applied to Outsiders native to the evil-aligned Outer Planes. Evil Outsiders are also called fiends. Most creatures that have this subtype also have evil alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the evil subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields are evil-aligned.

You are likely thinking of the rules for creatures with DR/magic.

Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures' natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Moderately often. It's most common when you're fighting fiendish outsiders (devils and demons in particular), and those aren't a terribly rare foe in this game.

I am Groot wrote:

Quercus Thousandborn wrote:

So less groot, but more something like this but with roughly humanoid torso and head.
Thoughts?

I. AM. GROOT!

Hahaha, looking at your post history, do you have a crawler searching the forums for matching mentions only to post a Groot one-liner at the appropriate places? ;-)

***
Convinced.
***
So, now that this is settled ...
What are your thoughts about alignment-based DR?
I have the option to get DR 5 / evil or DR 5 / chaotic.
Sadly I fear that we are very likely to encounter monsters who are either or even both on a rather regular basis...
Anyone having more experience how often one encounters aligned creatures that are naturally able to bypass such a DR?

Hah, nope, it just comes up often enough. Occasionally I'd search threads for it but I haven't in quite a while.

As for DR optimization, in typical campaigns I'd probably go chaotic since purely chaotic outsiders are typically more rarely encountered than evil ones. Who knows in this one though.

Huh. So it is. Funny, I could have sworn I read that somewhere and thinking it made sense for creatures like werewolves and the like to be able to hurt each other without difficulty. I wonder where that was...

Probably an extrapolation from the way alignment subtypes work. XD Those are genuinely different for DR, though.

Actually ...
Consider that you are a living, thinking plant ...
... and you have lived a LONG live with lots of battles and war in them.
What would you probably develop over time...?
Wouldn't it be fire IMMUNITY?
Because every jack-ass thinking himself clever will throw fire at you, because *tree*.
***
I like that thought.
Probably settle on it for now and see what kind of enemies we encounter.
I can still change it during next level up after all ;-)

Actually ...

Consider that you are a living, thinking plant ...
... and you have lived a LONG live with lots of battles and war in them.
What would you probably develop over time...?
Wouldn't it be fire IMMUNITY?
Because every jack-ass thinking himself clever will throw fire at you, because *tree*.
***
I like that thought.
Probably settle on it for now and see what kind of enemies we encounter.
I can still change it during next level up after all ;-)

That, or you get struck by lightning so many times you just start shrugging it off.

Fire's probably more common on average though.

I do like running intelligent creatures with weaknesses as having come prepared. Nothing like running a red dragon with protection from cold. You can burn through his spell in order to target his weakness...but is it worth it?

Well, looks like its crunch time. Was hoping that we could ask the GM some more questions about game details, but the deadline is tomorrow and I need to finish my character's background. Got his appearance down and a basic skeleton o his backstory, just need to flesh it out now.

Especially with some of the third party material pulled by multiple applicants, I'm starting to feel that my character is way underpowered for this campaign.

Wow.

Eh, you'll be fine. Shifters are always a bit of a struggle to have it keep up with other classes, but you've done pretty good so far as I can tell. Also, I'm pretty sure Improved Natural Attack would apply to all your natural weapons.

Besides, flavorful characters are almost always more fun to play than one that's purely optimized.

Especially with some of the third party material pulled by multiple applicants, I'm starting to feel that my character is way underpowered for this campaign.

Wow.

I have the same sense after looking at some of the 3PP options - I've never delved into them too deeply. The Godling classes, for instance.

Like Daedalus says, I wouldn't worry too much at this point about keeping up. There are still plenty of levels left to go.

I figure if Makonta ends up accepted and underpowered, there is still room to work with tactics and smart decisions to make up some difference. Relative power level will depend on party make-up too; for example, a skald in the party will help Makonta a lot by allowing easier use of Amplified Rage; or another rage-using melee who I can share Amplified Rage and Outflank with via Shared Training. Etc. Basically, party synergy can substantially add to your effectiveness and there's no way to figure that out at this stage.

Also, I'm pretty sure Improved Natural Attack would apply to all your natural weapons.

You would think so, but there is an entry for it in the Feat Tax rules doc, and according to that write-up, it applies to one kind of natural attack only. <shrug>

At least every possible form has one attack type which receives all the benefits of the Shifter's Claws, including the minimum damage. No requirement for it to be a claw attack.

Shifters are always a bit of a struggle to have it keep up with other classes, but you've done pretty good so far as I can tell.

Heh. In a game of Rise that I'm playing right now (4 PCs only), I'm playing a Tiger combat based Shifter. We just reached 10th level. Neither the arcane blaster nor the seriously sneak-attacking rogue can approach my damage curve currently, and being grappled so seriously hurts so many opponents that our GM table-ruled I only get to use the grab roll for the final attack that hits. We've avoided (some) magic items that would increase the Shifter's combat abilities in order to buff everybody else. Doing so has been good for the player dynamic at the table. <shrug>

I figured the DR, additional combat bonuses, acid and fire resistances, potential acid damage, etc. would crank this guy to 11. <shrug>

Aramyros wrote:

Rednal wrote:

I was wondering how you'd only managed to hit, like, +7 by Level 8... XD It should be much more viable now.

Hm, my to-hit isn't much better with Rapid Shot, TWF and Deadly Aim... but hitting touch AC is easy enough - especially when smite is added to the equation.

*blink*

You have a +8 BAB. How do you only have +7 to hit on your bolts?

Mean touch AC until CR24 is approximately 12.