This is a non-Campaign to Test Stuff

Game Master Tacticslion

Yeah, I believe in player agency too.. Right till you're screwing the party over.

There's a saying, "The freedom to swing your fist ends at your neighbours nose."

That's cool! mostly I don't want to make it so that posts go by without you having a chance to input. I don't mind moving forward, but I also don't want to do so in a manner that leaves you feeling unable to act. I like player agency, you know? XD

Yeah, not a lot of 'player agency' when your being carried by an incorporeal dragon :-)

Like I said, just waiting to see who else came through the doorway. I assumed we were still in combat rounds until the door shut and we dealt with any 'baddies' that followed.

Dimension door

Target you and touched objects or other touched willing creatures

You were willing. I assume if you didn't want the port there would be a will save to negate, or the spell would just fail for you.

You still had player agency =)

TL - don't mind me, I'm still thinking with regards to what to do with the holes. It may take a while for me to puzzle it out...I REALLY don't want the rest to be stuck there after I made my promise I'd get them free.

My human really should think more, but he avoids magic like he avoids plague ;)

So, Mort, you do know that I recently called you out, right?

Also, if a certain human who was neither Mort nor myself happened to want to mention his own answers (or, perhaps, two, should Luke also be hanging around), that might be cool... hint... hint...

Sorry. I don't track FatWL much unless I'm really bored, and I was trying to bring my menagerie around

Again :P

You see, TL. I know I am smarter and cheesier then the average pathfinder. Luke has more midiclorians cheese then I do, but that's not the point. You know the saying from Spiderman, "With great power comes great responsibility."

I do not want to cause an Angel Summoner and BMX bandit problem, so whenever I play with a party, I show restraint. I use mental blocks like Jean Grey from X-men so as not to expose myself to the insanity of using unspeakable cheese.

But when someone was giving a 40 point buy on a tome of anhilation one-shot solo trisalt, I let it all go. He said we'd need that 40 point buy, so I didn't hold back anything.

The result was that I massively overdid it and broke the game.

To my credit I was trying to prepare for all eventualities... including being planeshifted to the negative energy plane, or being wished into the sun. That kind of thing can come up when fighting high level casters.

That's why this time I submitted for trisalt - I chose not to focus my power upon my character but rather diversify it in running my menagerie.

I enjoy testing the frontiers of science, tinkering with odd stuff, like Luke. I am not as good at number crunching that Luke is.

Regardless: you're good! It's whatever you want; there are no wrong answers!

Well, okay. There are probably "wrong answers" if someone puts their mind to make them.

But following the general gist of the question... there are no "wrong" answers, in the sense that, it's a fun exercise, and not either optimization, specific goals, or any sort of adventure. It's just for fun. :)

No. D&D is a compact between people too. You don't want to make the other players feel like scrubs, nor do you want to break the game.

Can you see my problem, TL? I'm too different. And struggling to appear like just another pathfinder...

No. D&D is a compact between people too. You don't want to make the other players feel like scrubs, nor do you want to break the game.

Can you see my problem, TL? I'm too different. And struggling to appear like just another pathfinder...

I don't think you understand. I wasn't asking for a full build. Doesn't matter.

And you're only "different" insomuch as people are "different" from each other in general. There's nothing wrong with you (in this way, at least). We're all different from each other, even those that (hypothetically) all "play the same way."

(They don't. They just don't notice the differences in particular.)

Not in FatWL. I mean submitting characters in general.

Oh! Well that's fine - I do that, like, all the time. I'm with you. :D

Whew.

Time to take a break before I post here and talk with you guys.

*breathes*

Welp, okay, here we go.

Inarus gives a sharp intake of breath, exhaling it in a hiss. "All right then, here goes nothing."

Inarus channels the power he received from devouring the shen into the hole corresponding to lust.

Okay.

So this is a big thing.

Congratulations!

You did it!

This is the end, more-or-less.

Now.

How much actual gp-wealth-value of permanent and real stuff and negative levels/temporary ability drain - and from whom - do you place into the device? If you do not manage to make this decision now, the device will choose for you (and will take an extra (1d7)d% above the basic requirements). It seems that it's 20 negative levels and 60 ability score points, and 220,000 gold worth of stuff required.

"Temporary" items or beings or things you make by magic spells (such as major creation) don't count. If a creature is immune to an effect, they may not be targeted, and the device will choose for you. This is not an action, and doesn't take place in any particular moment. Your action - activating the key hole - is successful.

If you attempt to discuss this with anyone, your ability to decide is lost. All of it does not need to be immediately applied to a single creature - the "problems" can be spread around.

You are going to have to make a series of seven Will saves (DC 27); if you fail one you will activate "gluttony" (requiring you to choose a creature to weaken against mind-affecting effects and charisma; as well as destroy 220k gold-value worth of stuff).

You'll also need a series of seven Will saves (DC 23); if you fail one, you activate wrath (which requires you to instantly banish at least 80 HD from this room to elsewhere; this would also cause another 220k gold-value to be destroyed, but, since you're doing that already, it's only 110k).

These effects are instant and irrevocable. In exchange you will get at least one key, and possibly three. As an aside, when you choose to banish creatures, you can send them anywhere you know of within the greater demiplane (such as the entrance you came from long ago) and know what relative value of things are.

You know that there are:

Usowati, I count this on your person:
9+8+10+16.55+18.34 = 17+26.55+18.34 = 17+44.89 = 61.89k
300+310+0.6 = 610.6
26+2+22+33 = 28+55 = 83k
9+250 = 259
100
4k
TO MY COUNT: 148,890 and 969 more gold and 6 silver -> 149,859 gold and 6 silver-value

ALSO: actual money: 388

Please confirm or deny!

Unless you have other notes, Iya-iya has 27k, and Yalagach has 800 g

Evil crystals (~88k value, though you could "craft" stuff with it as if it had 176k-value, for this purpose, it's half-value).

As your character page is unclear, unless you have very good notes somewhere, I'm going to value your stuff at 123k-value, with an extra 183k-value around that you have access to from various hordes.

{you could sacrifice the sisters, but it would entirely remove/eradicate them; they would, however, pay your debt off}

In total, you've got 149+27+88+123+321 = ~707,000 gold in magical and mundane stuff to sacrifice.

Total cost is going to be 550,000 gold.

The problem: magical stuff in the room must be given preference (i.e. "sacrificed/destroyed first"), but it will begin impovershing you once you run out of local magically-associated gold, and 321k-worth of stuff is outside of this area.

{sisters are immune; I believe you are, but I can't tell, for sure; either way, you can't target yourself}

3 HD Mephit
13 HD Usawoti
16 HD Iya-iya

Total available in room for negative levels: 31 do note Usawoti's current injuries, though

Because negative levels don't remove HD, you also have 19*3 = 57 HD from the jewelry of Usawoti. You can "banish" them to literally anywhere in the plane. You are not limited to 80, so you can include everyone else in this room (though the effect is only limited to those in this room).

(If you banished no one, you would go, too, and lose the chance of acquiring the key(s).)

With your knowledge: with a key, you may instantly deal 2,000 damage to an enemy or group of enemies (6,000 with two keys, 18,000 with three), and effectively shift everyone that "belongs" to you in this tower out of it. You'll also be able to massively harm the dark water (purifying much of it).

This would allow you to destroy most of the fiendish fungus army, and basically save most of "your" people.

Though you'll be able to open the portal at the place you entered the plane, you'll only want it to be open for about ~21 minutes per key (roughly an hour).

Thereafter, the entire plane outside of the tower will be... "cleansed"... by lots and lots of terrible power. You may be able to shield some of the people from the worst of it, but you're not going to be able to know for sure who you save, and you're going to want to seal that portal for ~500 years so the destructive energies don't take everything.

So here's my best take on everything.

You basically burn all or most all of your magical/mundane stuff, use your power while banishing all those except Inarus currently seeking freedom who are in the tower to the gate/entryway and sending them through.

Drop an extra 157k of various treasures (including the "evil crystals") with Usawoti*.

Usawoti has this basic idea. He can give it to the three girls/his jewelry without trying. Interestingly, Iya-iya also has this basic idea, as she's now got the crystal, too. That basically just means that only Yalagach is "out of the loop" of the people here.

Inarus, you may also open a single portal somewhere else in the realm - up to three, actually, with three keys. You will not want them open for more than 21 minutes per key, either (as that is as long as you'll be able to hold off the destructive power). You will not be able to open one in the coven's area or the EBIL PLANTs' "central"/base area (though you can bathe it in 18k damage, should you wish). You may, instead, seal another planar breech. You know of one that's closed (and unknown to others) and one that's open and and the source of the demon armies' growing power. You can seal that with one of your portals, should you like (there is no reason for the other).

To that end, I might tend to recommend two go to either the stone giants, the storm giants, and the cloud giants: the three giant groups you were the closest with - but it's your call.

Anyway, so 63 minutes isn't really that long to go for all those hundreds (or even thousands) to pass through safely. But you will help more than would otherwise be possible. As an aside, you haven't damned or killed them - they'd be dead within a few weeks, anyway, due to the growing fiendish fungus. This allows you to save many who would otherwise have turned into fodder for demonic pestilence.

It would not be wise to put Usawoti, et. al. at the same portal(s) you allow others (namely the giants) through; the more people there, the more will not be able to get through the portal. You can lean more heavily in the entrance/exit area, as it will be the last one "hit" by the destructive energies. You might want to scatter some of your people with the others, and the portals you open for the giants should likely go to the mountains (so they have good places for their kind to live).

Though there may well be a few upcoming trials, you've collectively basically completed the tragedy of this game; most (though not necessarily all) that is left is determining who lives, who dies, and how.

Feel free to ask questions.

* (Congratulations! After this long, grueling adventure, you come out... 10k richer than you were? Yyyyyaaaaayyy? 98k richer if you're willing to use the evil crystals to craft...)

Wait - I just came out from my facial and I need time to digest!

No rush.

I'm not pushing for anything in specific.

Usawoti, you do have some agency, here. Make sure to clarify your desires. They may or may not be possible... but we'll have to see, and only by failing to try do you guarantee an outcome!

No rush.

I'm not pushing for anything in specific.

Usawoti, you do have some agency, here. Make sure to clarify your desires. They may or may not be possible... but we'll have to see, and only by failing to try do you guarantee an outcome!

OK I need to digest this, I will start working on it...

You basically burn all or most all of your magical/mundane stuff, use your power while banishing all those except Inarus currently seeking freedom who are in the tower to the gate/entryway and sending them through.

Above is fine with me.

That's fine with me. Negative levels I'd like to take 17 of them on myself, since I have 18hd. According to energy drain, I would lose 85 hp from all this, right?

Iya-iya can take the remaining negative levels. Now ability drain... 15 points to my Dex, 10 points to my int, 10 points to my wis, 15 points to my cha, 10 points to my con.

I should be down 90 hp from con drain 85 hp from neg levels.

Does all this take place before or after the saves?

Also, the sacrifice made - can it be fixed using limited wish for restoration?

Not sacrificing the sisters.

Will think of portals later.

So opening a portal to Golarion - it can only be held for 21 min and that's the end of the keys?

one that's open and and the source of the demon armies' growing power - what does it take to close it?

Can I use myself for levels and ability drain or no? Sorry wall of text on phone isn't that easy to plough through.

Usowati, I count this on your person:
9+8+10+16.55+18.34 = 17+26.55+18.34 = 17+44.89 = 61.89k
300+310+0.6 = 610.6
26+2+22+33 = 28+55 = 83k
9+250 = 259
100
4k
TO MY COUNT: 148,890 and 969 more gold and 6 silver -> 149,859 gold and 6 silver-value
ALSO: actual money: 388
Please confirm or deny!

Usawoti’s original expenses was 81,712 gp. With 388 gp remaining. So a beginning total of 82,000 gp. I wasn’t counting all the stuff we picked up, so I’m going to have to trust you on the other figures. Was the armor the giants gave him calculated in that?

Usawoti would sacrifice everything accept his clothes, his coldiron spear, his sling and stones and the rangers pack.

He would also sacrifice up to all but one level, or how ever high he can go with the HP he has.

question
A little confused about the doorways were opening are we (everyone other than Inarus) going back to where the giants/coven was and returning the way we came? Or are we sending everyone including them back to Golarion.

Also, everyone but Inarus is being sent out from here, so is that the levels of 'banishment your talking about, or is there some other sacrifice that those beings need to make?

Does everyone pick what portals are opened or closed or is that Inarus only?

Oh, by the way Inarus, I still think it's a bad idea to send planary creatures (angels and demons) to Golarion, like you promised.

Too bad on that. I think it's all great in the name of freedom!

Actually level allocation(assuming I can't sacrifice myself):

Usawoti - 7 Neg levels.
Yalagach- 1 Neg level.
Iya-Iya - 12 neg levels.

Next: Ability score (Assuming I cannot allocate to myself)

Yalagach - 8 Str, 10 dex, 5 wis 10 cha (33 points)
Iya-Iya - 10 str, 5 int, 5 wis, 5 cha (20 points)
Usawoti - 4 dex, 2 str, 1 wis (7 points)

Each negative level according to energy drain gives you -5 to your hp. Assuming the calculation tabulations are the same. So 7 negative levels would just give you -35 hp.

Of course...since all the buffs have Spell resistance(harmless), the entire buff line that I threw on my army...most of it doesn't work on me. Geez =)

And yes, portals need clarification before I can start dickering around.

Portals.

With any key you can open or close or seal or unseal any one "official" existing portal (i.e. a portal that is part of the structure of the demiplane). There is no limit to his ability to do this. A "sealed" portal is basically dead - nothing comes in, nothing comes out. Unsealed is not automatically open, but may under certain criteria; otherwise it is closed. Open is when people pass through it.

With each key you open or seal one additional "non-official" portal.

There are three portals that you know of (two of which are "official"):

- 1) in a strange/dangerous place somewhere very far (currently sealed); this is an official portal; it's worth noting that this portal is in what is, effectively, yet another nested demiplane and is very, very far away - Inarus cannot perceive real information about it.

- 2) the entrance area you came from (currently closed; not sealed); this is an official portal

- 3) the place the abyssal fungi have been invading from; this is not an official portal, and it's not a very good one, either - it's more like a breach or tear that opens and closes more or less on its own at uncontrolled (and hard-to-predict) intermittent times... when not open, it slowly leaks abyssal energies into the surrounding environment

When you open a portal, it's pretty much any time you want, easy as you want, for any purpose you'd care for. Otherwise, it's kind of like a gate spell, save that instead of passing through a neat hoop anyone on the area (an area that's about 40 feet across) is shifted over the course of 1d4 rounds. Multiple sets of creatures (however many can fit) can begin the "shifting" process at the same time; creatures larger than 40 feet across can also pass, but they basically count as a "set" in and over themselves.

If Inarus starts new portals, he gets to choose where they go. There are limits - he cannot create a new portal (though he can seal one) in either the coven's locale (due to powerful wards they've enacted) nor the fungus' leaders' locale (though, again, he can seal it), nor this tower (it is sealed and cannot be opened; besides which open portals from this tower to the world outside'd be bad for whatever was nearby).

In terms of "banishing" I meant "banishing" from this demiplane inside a demiplane inside a demiplane - Inarus was correct that this little room is it's own plane. There is one more - the place where the keys "come from" (i.e. are created) in response to appropriate power. Proooobably this was intended to be a thing where someone powerful enough would bring whatever they wanted to sacrifice with them (and likely, at least one presupposes, wouldn't be fighting hordes of demonic parasites along the way). In other words, Inarus could banish people from this room to the tower (doesn't do them much good) or to the plane itself (basically the set of islands you were at). Those in this room could, in fact, be banished directly to Golarion - I suppose that would be an even better use of time, and save that many more lives.

To that end, it seems, to me, the best bet would be to seal the portal to the Abyss (because you don't want the Abyss to invade this plane in ~500 years, and maybe claim all this power), and (if - and only if - you get more than one key) open portals for friendly giants (maybe with a few banished folk appearing nearby and encouraging their exodus). Each key may only open a single additional portal at one time.

As for the sacrifice, let's see if I can clarify:

You automatically gain the key of lust; this is the one you activated

- key of lust: 220+ k-value of goods (preferably magical) must be sent to the realm where the keys come from, and 20 negative levels and 60 points of ability drain must be applied to <creatures>

You may (accidentally) activate the keys of gluttony and wrath - those are two of the other layers you've managed to claim. This is what the will saves are for.

- key of gluttony: 220+ k-value (must be magical) must be entirely destroyed, and one creature (you choose) becomes hyper-sensitive to someone's mind-affecting effects/persuasion (it's supposed to be your own, but, one supposes, you could choose someone else to have that influence)

- key of wrath: you must banish at least 80 HD from this room to elsewhere (can be more); and requires 110k gold-value (must be magical) to be entirely destroyed

You don't need to make the extra sacrifices if you don't activate the extra keys; alternatively you may always waive the will saves and claim the extra keys anyway. There is no particular order of events - the saves and sacrifices all happen more-or-less 'simultaneously' which means it doesn't matter if you wait until after the saving throws are done to apply penalties to stuff or not.

Unless you gain the key of wrath, you can't actually banish anyone anywhere, though you could still activate a "portal" in this room that sends folks somewhere semi-random to either the tower or (2% chance, if you specifically try; 1% chance if you don't) the plane beyond.

======================================

Inarus: when you return to your place of power, you will be able to use the power you've gained to reverse various badnesses, presupposing it can affect you. You may use the limited wish version now. There is nothing "special" about the penalties - they just are.

Usawoti: fair deal! Consider it "done"...

=============================================

Not sacrificing the sisters.

That pleases them. :)

=============================================

Did I cover everything? Any other question?

I'll check gameplay out, shortly.

TL wrote:

Usowati, I count this on your person:
9+8+10+16.55+18.34 = 17+26.55+18.34 = 17+44.89 = 61.89k
300+310+0.6 = 610.6
26+2+22+33 = 28+55 = 83k
9+250 = 259
100
4k
TO MY COUNT: 148,890 and 969 more gold and 6 silver -> 149,859 gold and 6 silver-value
ALSO: actual money: 388
Please confirm or deny!

Usawoti’s original expenses was 81,712 gp. With 388 gp remaining. So a beginning total of 82,000 gp. I wasn’t counting all the stuff we picked up, so I’m going to have to trust you on the other figures. Was the armor the giants gave him calculated in that?

1) I saw that note, but I didn't find how you came to that conclusion. I put my math there, only because I was trying to figure out how much each thing was worth.

9+8+10+16.55+18.34 = 17+26.55+18.34 = 17+44.89 = 61.89k
-> cloak 9k, ring 8k, belt 10k, breastplate 16.55k, hammer 18.34k
300+310+0.6 = 610.6
-> sling, spear, bullets
26+2+22+33 = 28+55 = 83k
-> rod 26k, gloves 2k, blood scarab 22k, pearl 33k
(this seems wrong, now that I'm looking at the actual item values; I need to look at this again, but I'm out of time, now)
9+250 = 259
-> pack, traveler's anytoo
100
-> acid
4k
-> the two animal armors (2.1k and 1.9k)

2) I did not; I didn't have the figures on hand, and it wasn't magical, so it wouldn't have been all that (relatively) expensive; I'll look it up when I can

-> rod 26k, gloves 2k, blood scarab 22k, pearl 33k

(this seems wrong, now that I'm looking at the actual item values; I need to look at this again, but I'm out of time, now)

Ooooooooooooooooookay.

Big time GM/reading mistake.

That's 2 rods, each of which is 3k for a total of 6k, not one 26k rod.

A glove at 2k.

Two scarabs at 1k each for a total of 2k, not one 22k item that I didn't recognize.

And 3 pearls at 1k each for 3k total, not one 33k item.

Alright. So. 6+2+2+3 = 8+5 = 13k.

That's a... that's a 70k difference, right there. Hm.

You were going to drop 157k onto Usawoti; you can get away with dropping only 87k. Considering he started with 81k, he still make an extra 6k gold! That's almost as much of an increase as I thought it might be!

>.>

... from a much, much smaller number.

Well, that and a semi-immortal spirit mount, nearly priceless sentient jewelry, nifty new coven magic, and new allies! That's something!

... look, it's a tragedy!

*Ahem.*

<.<

Sorry.

>.<

... mmmmmaaaaayyyyyybe there'll still be a reward from the eeeelllvvveeessss...?

You know - I don't think we ever decided what Usawoti had been promised. Huh. I've just been through four pages of our discussion stuff, but the elves had promised 11k gold and <something> to each person, upon return. I can't find what Usawoti was promised, even by page four. And I'm suuuuuuuuuuper sick, so I'm not going further, right now.

I did find this, though - neat to reflect on the Campaign setting as it was at that time in history.

Missed one!

Does everyone pick what portals are opened or closed or is that Inarus only?

It should only be Inarus... yet your connection to the dragon by way of the coven's binding means you can try to influence/choose yourself (or he could allow you a voluntary choice without you forcing it). If there is a conflict of decision making, there is likely an element of randomness introduced into the decision making process.

Still limited to one portal per key or "official" portals, though.

As an aside, banishing people to the one sealed portal "far away" is probably not a great idea, though it may be possible, since you don't know what's there or what's on the other side. Similarly, you'll probably want it to remain sealed.

2) I did not; I didn't have the figures on hand, and it wasn't magical, so it wouldn't have been all that (relatively) expensive; I'll look it up when I can

Doent worry about calculating the 'value' of the armor the giants gave him, he will wear it out...

So it looks like I get to sit back and enjoy the ride, But that's been fine with me :-)

Usawoti ultimately came for the key to give to Yephima, with the desire to return to her with it and as many as his friends as he can. With the intent to return to Golarion or wherever Yephima wants to go.

So as long as were going that direction he is good.

Ok - TL - I need to work out something.

key of gluttony: 220+ k-value (must be magical) must be entirely destroyed, and one creature (you choose) becomes hyper-sensitive to someone's mind-affecting effects/persuasion (it's supposed to be your own, but, one supposes, you could choose someone else to have that influence)

Now - that key isn't a problem - I can take it on myself, but metagame wise it's probably better to give it to someone else. Can sort out who gets it later.

key of wrath: you must banish at least 80 HD from this room to elsewhere (can be more); and requires 110k gold-value (must be magical) to be entirely destroyed

Do we even have that amount of HD of things to be banished? Usawoti + Iya-iya only amount to 32 - unless the sisters count?

Ideally I will want to get all 3 keys, but is it even feasible?

How does the banishing to Golarion work - is it in the process of claiming the wrath key, or can it be done after the claiming the wrath key.

Say the plan is as follows:

Claim all 3 keys, (for wrath banishment - banish everyone except myself to the level below), 1 key to seal the abyssal fungus, one key to open a gate to the level below so everyone can come up, last key to open a gate from the giants to tell the coven to get moving up, then banish everyone to Golarion. Is that possible?

If Inarus starts new portals, he gets to choose where they go. There are limits - he cannot create a new portal (though he can seal one) in either the coven's locale (due to powerful wards they've enacted) nor the fungus' leaders' locale (though, again, he can seal it), nor this tower (it is sealed and cannot be opened; besides which open portals from this tower to the world outside'd be bad for whatever was nearby).

But there's this above clause.

Does that mean I cannot create a portal from this tower out to the plane outside even?

Issue I think here - is that the only way to Golarion is from this chamber, and getting to this chamber may not be possible since due to the clause of the I can't open portals in this tower.

And we never found Erevel, did we?

TL - if I seem a bit slow on the decision making, it's because I don't fully understand the situation and I want to make sure I try to get a reasonable outcome.

Like earlier I thought for the saves - I didn't know you had to fail the saves to get the other two keys.

I am also going shopping later so my activity may not be what it usually is. Long posts require more concentration and longer decision making time.

Sorry for unclear. Fever.

1) sort out later is fine
2) good plan, but it doesn't work because you can't bring more people here; you are the only single key-keeper possible until your death, and thus the only one allowed here (well, that and the sacrifices you brought)
3) my wording was poor because I'm a fevered and delusional; you can banish as many HD as you want starting with the people in this room (whom you can banish anywhere - even to Golarion) and leading to others (if the HD here is enough, which it is; the sisters have 57 HD as I said above, so banishing them counts). Any others you banish from the tower are only able to be pushed "out" one layer

So, using your plan as a template:
0) banish people in this room to Golarion? (Also, distribute keys)
1) seal abyssal gate
2) banish some of your people from tower to Giants' island
3) banish most of your people to front entrance of the plane
4) open official front entrance gate for 21 minutes
5) open giant gate for 21 minutes
6) close and seal all the gates
7) destruction runs through the lower part of the plane (you will probably attempt to shield some of the Giants who didn't make it)

That seems like it would enable you to save the most lives; "inspiring" one of your people with a high charisma and persuasive abilities banished to the Giants' place will be useful to convince them through the portal to safety

Does that sound legit?

EDIT: there is another reason your plan doesn't work: you can't bring people here or delay the banishment; it is a sacrifice and must be immediate - you cannot discuss this in-character, or take time in-character to figure things out. But out of character, in discussion threads like this, it's fine: that's why I posted that here, not over there. Basically, if you're banishing people, it's "away" and it can't be delayed until later.

TL - if I seem a bit slow on the decision making, it's because I don't fully understand the situation and I want to make sure I try to get a reasonable outcome.

Like earlier I thought for the saves - I didn't know you had to fail the saves to get the other two keys.

I am also going shopping later so my activity may not be what it usually is. Long posts require more concentration and longer decision making time.

I as a GM am not going to punish you for misunderstanding words I intended to clearly spell out, but didn't because I'm out of it. No worries. You won't have to take your rolls. Don't stress. I mean Inarus (the character) should stress, but Mort (the player) should not.

we never found Erevel, did we?

You never did.

so initially we were sent for a key, Usawoti would intend to return to Yeye with one, is that possible?

4) open official front entrance gate for 21 minutes

Where would the front entrance gate lead to?

I cannot banish the people in this room to Golarion - well I could - but the issue is that Usawoti will not want to go to Golarion without Yeye - so at most I can banish only Iya-Iya - it may be for the best. Or not - since if I cannot take the brunt of the negative level she will have like 12 neg levels on her - and god knows if anyone in Golarion can fix that.

I don't think you'll get any keys to take back - this is just to prevent Collateral damage.

ummm the point was to take a key back...

You're not going to be able to do that. You should be glad you get to walk out of this alive.

TL: Correct me if I am wrong - but can the keys even be given to anyone? Apparently they can only be used in this chamber, at this point here and now, right?

Besides my loyalty is to my people, and not to those who choose to call me a monster.

The only reason why I actually brought you up here - was so that in case Mope or Shuuvu were required to activate the final key.

You're not going to be able to do that. You should be glad you get to walk out of this alive.

TL: Correct me if I am wrong - but can the keys even be given to anyone? Apparently they can only be used in this chamber, at this point here and now, right?
Besides my loyalty is to my people, and not to those who choose to call me a monster.

ok this may be a discussion we have in a game. Ummm the promise was to take a key back, that's the promise you made, that's why you 'sacrificed' your humanity...

The only reason why I actually brought you up here - was so that in case Mope or Shuuvu were required to activate the final key..

Wow, they would have had to be sacrificed! What happened to 'good Irenicus'?

Gotta go to work, I'll be back on in a couple, can't wait to hear read the response...

You do what you need to do when the devil drives.

I have many commitments - my promise to my people, who have treated me better then you thus far.

So basically it's a list of things to do - get my people to Golarion, other things can wait.

Not to mention TL has never indicated if the keys even can be given to others, and far as Inarus is concerned, Usawoti has never promised to bring his people to Golarion and has been less then cordial.

Usawoti treated Inarus great, up until he killed a sentient being for it's power. Then he was very sad because he thought Inarus had lost his 'humanity' which Inarus had voiced a concern over doing when he first took dragon form. I was roleplaying your original doubt.

The motivation up until that time was to obtain a key. Inaurs sacrificed his freedom and in Usawoti's mind his 'humanity' to obtain the key for the coven. I assumed that was stll the motivation with the addition of freeing all he could.

If Inarus' motivation changed shouldn't something have been shown or said... they were telepathically linked, shouldn't there have been some kind of in game notion that you were no longer intending on sending the key to the coven?

I don't remember any indication in game, thought or spoken to infer such. I'm just asking because it seems a complete turn around from anything I've seen inferred by Inarus.

On the last note, Usawoti never promised to bring anyone after Inarus' sacrifice. His concern was to retrieve the key and leave with those he had promised. In his mind he lost his best friend and was still mourning. Just wanting to be done. also he assumed that Inarus would have the power to do whatever he wanted, that he didn't need Uawoti's collusion.

Several time he asked Inarus if he intended to see their promise though and Inarus indicated that he would. there was no 'bluff check' or 'thought process'' manipulating the situation,

The issue is I have several promises and as I said I can't/may not be able to keep them all, which I just found out.

Earlier - I thought the extraction of the key was a simple matter - go in, activate the key with Shuuvu/Mope's help if need be - and grab the key, open the portal - get everyone home to Golarion - then when I'm done, you can have the key.

Now I am faced with a completely different situation - where the keys are actually consumed to do what do - so obviously when things are different from what was earlier expected - how would you expect your thought process to be the same?

Besides after what you said - why should I continue to keep the same mental link that we once shared?

I can't please everyone - something will have to give. You got Shuuvu back - so that is part of the promise I have given you complete.

Do I not owe a duty to my people to get them to Golarion? Especially after they risked life and limb to get us here? And that promise remains unfulfilled.

The key, I view - is just a possession - a means to an end.

yeah, I totally believe in player autonomy, I was just surprised because your statements here the last day or so in discussion sounded different than what I thought we had talked about.

If we don't actually physically get 'a key' or 'keys' then you have some decisions to make. As to what's best for everyone in general.

My original assumption was that everyone but Inarus would go back to the coven with 'a key' and then return to Golarion the way we came. I no longer think that is what is going to happen. This is not your fault

Looking at you TL

Now, in game, Usawoti is still hoping that he will acquire a 'key' to give to Yeye. If that doesn't or can't happen, then he will have to deal with that the best he can.

Just remember Usawoti was 'your people' well before any of the rest were and he's been risking life and limb the whole time :)

1) seal abyssal gate - one key gone - I think we both agree on that one that needs to be done.

4) open official front entrance gate for 21 minutes
5) open giant gate for 21 minutes

= No keys left??

I think step 4 opens the portal to Golarion - I may be wrong on this.

If "2) banish some of your people from tower to Giants' island " --> can be to the official front gate entrance, so that step 4) can be for my people to evacuate to Golarion, then yes it may be possible to have one key left over to give.

Yes Usawoti has been risking life and limb - and he's found Shuuvu - that is partial compensation at least.

I do need to get my people out.

1) give key to Usawoti to give to Yeye :-)

somehow I don't think it's going to be that easy...

Yeah only AFTER my people are out =) If there are spare keys, sure! And if the keys can be given, sure!

But my people must not be compromised...

If I throw everyone out to the front Gate - you'll still need to get to the coven. Or I could throw you on giant island - but you still need to get to the coven. I suggest you waterwalk on Mope, since you only have 13 rounds of airwalk.

Since this entire plane is going to come to an end - you'd probably not want to hang around too long here with Yeye, anyway.

Usawoti has this basic idea. He can give it to the three girls/his jewelry without trying..

GM TL What does that mean?

@ Inarus, once we find out for sure what can or cannot be done are you going to let Usawoti know in game that you cannot/will not give him the first key and that if there is a second key he may get it?

@ GM TL if Inarus doesn't make Usawoti aware of his plan to not share a key is there a sense motive roll or something we can do to figure it out so Usawoti is not left in the dark?

@ GM TL can Usawoti do anything to attempt to acquire a key for himself or is he entirely here as Inarus' sacrifice?

And did you think that even were I to give you a key, it could be activated outside this chamber?

What if I give you a key but strand you here where the entire plane is destroyed. Does that help matters?

There are too many questions to be answered about the keys for you to just assume you can walk off with one.

Getting everyone out of the firing line is most important. A key is a material possession. Life > possessions.