This is a non-Campaign to Test Stuff

Game Master Tacticslion

so you can’t use any of your higher level spells – nothing above 3rd level.

For the record, in my reading, as GM, this is not quite correct.

This part makes it seem correct:

The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed.

... however the very next sentence belays that:

Spellcasters do not lose any prepared spells or slots as a result of negative levels.

Basically, your magic is weak, but it's still there - seems like you still have access to it, even if you normally could not with your reduced caster level.

well, don.t know how many spells he will get off...

The issue is this...

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

If the negative levels would drop your caster level to less than the required CL for the spell you are casting, you cannot cast that spell. The spells are not lost, but cannot be cast.

That's the reason why I told him what I did.

well, don.t know how many spells he will get off...

Here's the armor, for stat-purposes!

The issue is this...

TOZ wrote:

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

If the negative levels would drop your caster level to less than the required CL for the spell you are casting, you cannot cast that spell. The spells are not lost, but cannot be cast.

That's the reason why I told him what I did.

I recognized that interpretation, including its validity. That's why I quoted the first part (to show where it might come from; I didn't hunt down the "must be x level to cast" because it's a rabbit-hole of debate - I was trying to go simple). The problem I have with it, when re-reading the rules, is that then you wouldn't be able to retain them at all - the only way to retain them under that concept is by a "special exception"-style clause, and it feels more like it's a clarification than an exception. If your actual level just dropped, they'd be gone, and there's never an instance in which you could still retain them.

Effectively, there's no manner in which you can retain the spells and not be able to cast them, because there'd never be a purpose in that line.

wraithstrike noted,

It was written that way so that if you can get the negative level removed before it is permanent of it the level or temporary such as from enervation that you don't lose spells you never used.

... but that is a fringe case.

Pathfinder has been extensively re-written so that people no longer need the "must be this tall to ride"-style design system (i.e. "you must always have exactly the correct solution" concept) - it feels against that trend and improbable to require them to always have restoration on-hand.

I'm not saying that others are wrong for their games, but rather, as a GM and a player, I view it the other way.

(It is rare that I strongly disagree with TOZ, wraithstrike, and the rest, and they're pretty awesome, but in this case, I just do not agree with their interpretation.)

Blerg, site is acting up.

*shrug*

You know me. I'm a Rule Lawyer hopefully of the Praecepta leges pulchritudinous variety.

I try to prepare for the worst possible interpretation of a said rule.

I also do not really debate the why of rules. I feel it is our duty to just follow them.

I know you may disagree with me on this, TL, but again, different strokes for different people

Agree on site acting up.

yeah, was trying to post when the site started to go wonky, here is my post from last night:

+7 AC, +4 mDex, -1 check, 15% asf, normal speed, 17.5 lbs; "medium" armor

Quigaz’ir’Eter , the Lady (The Quiet Gazer)

...Regardless of how it is worn, the item functions like both an amulet of natural armor +3, an amulet of euphoric healing and a ring of protection +3...

So:

Does the extra two characters add anything to the jewelry?

So in game:

Okay, I see what you're indicating, now. I didn't follow that.

The reason I was not getting that, is because it's not really something you can flee from via horseback.

so a few assumptions:

I assumed that if Usawoti shattered the weapon then the storm would only be in the starry dimension. Not in the gateways or the dimension where the giants were.

I assumed that Usawoti (mounted on Mope) was just inside the door of the dimension and the evil plant lady was deeper in. That if he shattered the weapon that the storm would stay in the 'starry dimension' and that Mope could step through the door into the gateway or other 'giant dimension' allowing a minimum amount of damage to Usawoti and Mope.

I also assumed that if the evil plant lady started to follow that Mopes 'wake of light' may slow her down.

Lastly, when the storm ended Usawoti would return to the dimension to try and find Yeye's corpse hoping to use 'reincarnation' but apparently, according to Mort, there is some kind of 'magical component' cost there that Usawoti cannot pay...

So those are the assumptions I was making when Usawoti decided to break the hammer, Oh one last: That breaking the hammer would even work. That's why he told Mope to flee once he broke that hammer, whether the storm happened or not.

Ok, headed back to bed.

So in game, if we can't flee the dimension, then let the chips fall where they may:

Did the 'hammer storm' happen? Did Usawoti get caught in it? Did the plant lady get her attack?

Just let me know and we will go from there...

yeah, was trying to post when the site started to go wonky, here is my post from last night:

Same thing happened to me.

+7 AC, +4 mDex, -1 check, 1% asf, normal speed, 17.5 lbs; "medium" armor

he can't wear the shirt, he doesn't have 'heavy armor'

Proficiency is not permission - non-proficiency merely means you take the check penalty to your attacks (which, in this case, is a -1).

Quigaz’ir’Eter , the Lady (The Quiet Gazer)

...Regardless of how it is worn, the item functions like both an amulet of natural armor +3, an amulet of euphoric healing and a ring of protection +3...

So:

AC 26 = 10 + 7 [armor] + 3 [dex] + 6 [jewelry]
touch: 16
flatfooted: 23

Does the extra two characters add anything to the jewelry?

Correct, except touch should be 19 (retaining both jewelry and Dex).

So in game:

Cool!

Okay, I see what you're indicating, now. I didn't follow that.

The reason I was not getting that, is because it's not really something you can flee from via horseback.

so a few assumptions:

I assumed that the 'starry place' was a separate dimension. That we enter into it. similar to going through a door from one room to the other. That the gates provided a 'hallway' to the dimension but weren't part of the dimension.

I assumed that if Usawoti shattered the weapon then the storm would only be in the starry dimension. Not in the gateways or the dimension where the giants were.

I assumed that Usawoti (mounted on Mope) was just inside the door of the dimension and the evil plant lady was deeper in. That if he shattered the weapon that the storm would stay in the 'starry dimension' and that Mope could step through the door into the gateway or other 'giant dimension' allowing a minimum amount of damage to Usawoti and Mope.

I also assumed that if the evil plant lady started to follow that Mopes 'wake of light' may slow her down.

Lastly, when the storm ended Usawoti would return to the dimension to try and find Yeye's corpse hoping to use 'reincarnation' but apparently, according to Mort, there is some kind of 'magical component' cost there that Usawoti cannot pay...

So those are the assumptions I was making when Usawoti decided to break the hammer, Oh one last: That breaking the hammer would even work. That's why he told Mope to flee once he broke that hammer, whether the storm happened or not.

To your assumptions:

- I understand, now. The problem is that you'd still be in the "blast area", though you can exclude a piece (like Inarus did) and try to make that yourself. I'll want you to roll a reflex.

- Heh. Interesting assumption.

- You can have been there.

- Perhaps! We may see.

- ... good luck!

- ... good luck!

I will update when I can.

That said, I'm not sure where Mort got the requirement part.

Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A quick Google search seemed to confirm this.

Since there is no divine focus or 1k worth of material components, I'm not sure what was seemingly needed.

I've been trying to find it since it was first mentioned, and I'm just coming up blank. Unless there's a clear ruling somewhere that Mort is able to cite, I can't find a cost associated. If this contradicts something I've said in the past, I'm willing to talk about that, too. I've been known to be wrong! XD

I am out of time, and we are leaving town for three days - I should have internet access, but it's limited. I was hoping to do this last night, but the site simply wouldn't work, and I eventually gave up and went to bed while trying to get it to work.

Sorry! See you guys... later?

Ok, headed back to bed.

So in game, if we can't flee the dimension, then let the chips fall where they may:

Did the 'hammer storm' happen? Did Usawoti get caught in it? Did the plant lady get her attack?

Just let me know and we will go from there...

Sleep well!

Now I understand the situation better, I'll need a reflex save.

For the rest... I'll have to let you know when I have time!

just realized I never inquired about the shiny new rock, I probably should have used my scent ability for perception to see if I could smell Yeye... second guessing everything now, just not sure how else to kill the big bad...

I forgot the part about SLAs and expensive components. Because I don't really use that much of them.

Me bad!

um, on my reflex throw I forgot the +2 from good hope, I really need to pay better attention

*slaps Usawoti with a spectral tail*

Now you know how I feel as a GM?

So many things to pay attention to...

um, on my reflex throw I forgot the +2 from good hope, I really need to pay better attention

I'll add that for a total of 16.

:|

Sorry: unlikely to be able to update tonight. Family business!

Take your time sir, not sure this is ending well anyway...

If you did what you felt was the right thing to do, then there is nothing to regret.

You do what you need to do, anyway, based on what information that has been given.

To be honest long absences between posts tends to get me lost on what has happened during the campaign, how my character would react etc.

I've learnt from the Witcher series that you can't always get happy endings, and many a time you have to choose the lesser of two evils.

What Inarus said. I'm rooting for you! Good luck!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!

Yes, Happy thanksgiving. I've just returned from out of town. We went to Columbus to see our daughters and 9 month old granddaughter. The bad news is I haven't slept in twenty seven hours so I'm not going to be on long :-)

Happy thanksgiving!

Aww on your granddaughter. This Sat is my nieces baby shower. Parteh!

GM TL, I was sitting here looking at games and realized the last actual event in the game was the plant lady attacking Usawoti. Then we started talking about Usawoti's attempted attack/escape.

I didn't think about it being a surprise round, so Usawoti could only take an attack or a move, not both... oh well. Oops back to the question...

Did the plant ladies attack happen? Are we in combat, or did the hammer go off?

Working on Usawoti's eulogy, wanted to sort out how it happened...

The sad fact if the hammer went off and Mope could still move out of the 'dimension' in the next round, then the plant lady would have had initiative so the attack may have still happened anyway.

oh goodie, hammer storm and plant attack... run away, run away fast!

I will update tomorrow, late, I think!

And now that Inujderstand your plan: plant lady may have attacked, but that's because of initiative and activity misunderstandings on my part. Still mostly happens, but your snap goes off first.

Either way:
- U action readied
- P move plant to attack
- U readied action taken
- ???

We will see!

I must admit I'm looking forward to seeing how this ends

Man, I finally was able to sign back in.

Took a while...

I must admit I'm looking forward to seeing how this ends

Such a good movie...

hey I liked Logan too, but I think I'll only watch it the one time.

It's tough when a movie kills off two of your favorite comic book characters of all times...

So take your time, I liked Usawoti and I'm not thinking this is going to end well, you know, "Tragedy" and all...

Hey, if you go out doing the right thing, there's no better way to die, right?

Besides you saved some mutant kids to boot!

And you were dying anyway. The whole movie just made it faster.

And professor X dying...well at least he's freed from his guilt of manslaughter. Or mutantslaughter.

I don't find it tough, but I was never allowed comics as a kitten and only started watching Marvel once in high school.

I felt more sorry for Jean at the end of X-men 2.

I mean she probably could have TK flew away if she wanted to... And screw over the rest of the team.

I will say that being utterly immune to all spells that gave SR was one of the catalysts for my decision to break the whip.

I figured that without the game mechanics to heal myself - the only other way was extremely complicated and unclear(which I hate as a player because I hate grey area), I was already a dead dragon walking.

So hey, must as well get some use of the spell immunity and either pull it off, or go out with a bang right?

hey I liked Logan too, but I think I'll only watch it the one time.

It's tough when a movie kills off two of your favorite comic book characters of all times...

So take your time, I liked Usawoti and I'm not thinking this is going to end well, you know, "Tragedy" and all...

Good news! I'm not killing any comic book characters, right now!

XD

I will say that being utterly immune to all spells that gave SR was one of the catalysts for my decision to break the whip.

I figured that without the game mechanics to heal myself - the only other way was extremely complicated and unclear(which I hate as a player because I hate grey area), I was already a dead dragon walking.

So hey, must as well get some use of the spell immunity and either pull it off, or go out with a bang right?

I do apologize for being unclear. It's a problem I'm trying to work on - see, in my head, everything is crystal clear. So all you need to do is just read my mind, perfectly, and it'll all be super-clear, right?! XD

Also, ah, memories.

Also, links just for GM-ness.

http://paizo.com/campaigns/ThisIsANonCampaignToTestStuff/gameplay&page= 17#824

http://paizo.com/campaigns/ThisIsANonCampaignToTestStuff/gameplay&page= 6#291

(Just in case anyone's curious - the power went off, as before, but it's not quite as potent as previously, almost as if the fundamental force powering it has vanished and it were withering away... though it's still pretty solid.)

I do not have telepathy and honestly it was really like all over the place, involving hours sitting and scribing tattoos, which was a bad idea considering the place is unstable and we have no idea how much time we have in each area, nor what would happen once that said time ran out.

Not to mention with incorporeal template, healing would be halved as well(or have 50% chance of not working). Looking at the whole thing I just gave up and decided I couldn't be arsed to try to heal since it was really too long a song and dance ritual.

EDIT: Some people and their luck. Anyway, you don't actually heal... XD

I felt I had to add this (even though you might already understand this) because I could totally see someone going, "Aw, sweet, my DR reduced the bludgeoning damage! I get slightly better!"

>.<

That someone I could see is me, by the way. To my GM.

Well that went better than I had hoped...

Ok, turned to ice, didn't get damaged, yeye was there invisible and she helped us out, plant lady still alive.... not for long I think.

Just making sure Usawoti still has his mundane gear don't know that a cold iron weapon would hit her so thinking spell. brb

odd question, was the true strike and haste cast on Usawoti? Does he know who cast it?

Yes. That's why I noted Usawoti found things "slowing down" (relative to himself), and gained sudden "insight" (like the kind of attack bonus he gained).

So, to be a bit more clear (I hope), I'm going to list it out.

But dropping it down so it's more clear.

One more for safety.

He has gained (at least):

- ice body (this has a host of effects; check 'em out)

- divine power (this is providing a +6 luck bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, Strength checks, and Strength-based skill checks)

- haste (this provides a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves, an extra attack on a full attack, and +30 speed)

- true strike (this provides a +20 to a single attack roll made within the next round; this can be used with a spell, if you have a touch-attack spell)

- probably some other magic he doesn't necessarily know about, 'cause it's not as flashy and doesn't alter his stats, directly (though, hint, you're not currently taking acid damage, soooooooooooooo...)

(That's all in addition to good hope, by the way.)

not looking a gift horse in the mouth here, but that's like six spells at once. What would I roll to figure out who was casting what? The bigger concern was what has happened to Yeye, can he still see her?

Do you even have a weapon after you broke that hammer of yours?

cold iron spear, that's why I asked about mundane gear

It's Yeye, and it's not, technically, six spells "at once"... from her perspective, anyway.

Technically, you'd need a perception check that you couldn't make and/or a sense motive check you also couldn't make. Buuuut, there's a "connection" anyway. Go figure.

>:)

I'm aware that Usawoti was the recipient of several "personal" spells - that's not a problem, in this instance, though.

Also, ice body grants a 1d6 slam attack, so he's still not unarmed, even if the spear is better.

ok, planning the attack, going to use the spear, and have Mope and Shuvuu attack also, that was Mort's idea, brb need to go do math...

Take your time, I'm going to put my kids to bed, soon, anyway. :)

First an observation, the extra math so far is - 7 levels, so attack -7, attack: Cold iron spear , PA, FF, good hope + 2 attack/Damage, Divine Powers + 4 attack/Damage/Stength checks, True strike + 20attack, Haste +1Attack,

On the strength checks from ‘divine power’ do I get to add that to the attack as well? Making his strength 22 so his attack is 15/10 instead of 13/8?

Lastly is the fungus close enough to make a full attack? Or do I need to move to get to her?

No - You gain a +1 luck bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls.

It's already been factored in, once. The strength check part does not add to attacks.

Believe me, as a casty, I know. I personally feel divine power is a waste of time since it takes a level 4 spell slot. Divine favour gives almost the same stuff and its a level 1 spell.

You have true strike so your first attack in a round has a +20 to hit, so if it misses...well I'd be quite !!

Whether you get your full attacks or not is another question. Probably not if you pull the spear since it's some kind of action, if you unarmed strike her, you would, assuming she is next to you.