Yeah, the gestalt level exists because the original campaign (Shining Host is actually this game's THIRD GM) was a gestalt campaign, but he didn't want to go through the work of increasing the campaign's power level that much. But, since we already had a gestalt level to begin with, that's how it happened. Interestingly enough, Soren is the only character from that original bunch still in the group; Nathanial was a player, but he switched characters. The other two left.
Also, GM, would you be willing to let me do some rebuilding and entertain an idea I had? I'll PM you the specifics, but if you'd rather I stick with how we are, I'll refrain from doing that.
Yeah, the gestalt level exists because the original campaign (Shining Host is actually this game's THIRD GM) was a gestalt campaign, but he didn't want to go through the work of increasing the campaign's power level that much. But, since we already had a gestalt level to begin with, that's how it happened. Interestingly enough, Soren is the only character from that original bunch still in the group; Nathanial was a player, but he switched characters. The other two left.
Also, GM, would you be willing to let me do some rebuilding and entertain an idea I had? I'll PM you the specifics, but if you'd rather I stick with how we are, I'll refrain from doing that.
Actually the first DM was also the second DM, some jackass who was trolling a few months back and creating threads (lots of threads!) with elaborate character creation guidelines (Gestalt and often high level) and then disappearing right before or right after a game got started.
That was part of the reason why I picked this up because I considered submitting for one of his games, luckily I did not but there were a lot of pissed off folks so I figured I would at least help one group out and this was the lucky group! :-)
In fact, I think I am becoming the Patron Saint of Dead Games or Games Seeking a DM...
Anyway, sure Soren, send me a PM and lets's see what your idea is.
Alas I am currently in Paris and will not return until Monday. I will level character then I promise, I am really sorry and if it delays play I can play a level behind.
No problem, I can wait till Monday.
Don't forget to split up the rest of Shalewigg's Loot or I will assume that the Cardinal will keep it for his other minions.
I am all leveled up. Picked up a new feat from the dragonrider handbook (you can download it for free, link in my profile).
Draconic Focus Your bond to your dragon is stronger than that of most draognriders.
Prerequisites: Dragon steed class feature.
Benefit: Three times per day, you may establish focus with your dragon steed as an action one step less demanding than normal (move action rather than standard action, swift action rather than move action, free action rather than swift action). If you normally establish focus with your dragon steed as a free action, instead three times per day you and your dragon may act as if under the effects of a haste spell for one round.
Nate also gained fire resistance 5.
Aurex gained +1 natural armor, and a +1 to Str/Con and Int/Cha, and also gained evasion.
Host, was just wondering. Since Nathan is a 3pp class, would you allow me to trade my alchemist level for something from Spheres of Power? If not, totally fine with it. Just really been wanting to play with it.
Sure, if you do not see yourself continuing with Alchemy I am fine with that. We are early enough that some tinkering is ok.
Really, we were pretty sure he was two different people, but obviously I could be wrong. I know one of them was a particularly bad troll, who once tried to poach on his own, failed recruitment thread for a Kingmaker game. Either way, I'm glad we ended up with a GM who is actually planning to, you know, run the game. Even if only two of us are actually still around.
Really, we were pretty sure he was two different people, but obviously I could be wrong. I know one of them was a particularly bad troll, who once tried to poach on his own, failed recruitment thread for a Kingmaker game. Either way, I'm glad we ended up with a GM who is actually planning to, you know, run the game. Even if only two of us are actually still around.
Two different people? Seemed like the same one to me unless two different people were using the same account.
I like this group as is now, should be fun to watch you all overthrow the Mitrans or die trying!
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It's not that I can't see him continuing without Alchemist, he's just evolving a lot different than I had originally planned. My original plan was for him to be an alchemist primarily who used his roguish training to con others into real/false curatives and such. Now that I'm actually playing him, he's turning out to be primarily a rogue. Really, about the only bit of alchemy I've used so far has been his bombs.
Well I cannot get the construct feat yet since there are two buy in feats. Is there down time throughout the campaign? And also is a crafter something that everyone would want. I could be just as happy picking up more hexes.
As to the apparent troll. That is a horrible thing to do to people! I am so glad I have not run across something like that. Plenty of games I have not gotten into but never that. So far I have only had to games fall apart and they were due to the real world.
Oh and I do have a question about a feat or two. It is not third party or core but a modified version of a feat. Boon Companion lets an animal companion bout as up to four levels higher up to your character level. I was wondering if I could modify that and take it for the Phantom. So its bab, saves, and what not would go up and it retains some of its usability. The feat is meant for a Druid that gets their animal companion at later levels and it apparently cannot stack but I am curious. Not sure if it is worth it if it cannot stack but curious never the less. Also I typed all of this before realizing that it didn't stack. As to if that lets it qualify for feats that is up to you but I am cool either way.
The other feat is for the familiar, her bits of sonny boy. Would I be able to take the improved familiar and turn it into a soulbound doll? Or do I need the craft construct feat? Or both?
You can take boon companion multiple times, but each time it must be applied to a different companion. You can make a level 6 pack master druid with 3 full powered animal companions. You just have to sink all your feats into it.
Yeah that part sucks. I wish it stacked. Not sure yet if I am wanting to put more levels into the Spiritualist.
And for the spells i need to make a spellcraft DC 16 per spell to learn each one. And it takes an hour for each spell. So can I just shove the spider in the creepy doll? That is the image I get in this instance
Awe I failed on the sleep spell. But I got the other three so that is actually rather good for me. The dice roller is not being mean to me.
I'm with Vandour, I have no problem with you modifying those feats so you could take them with your phantom.
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Here's a look at what I want to change. Get rid of Alchemist, gain the Hedgewitch class. Taking the Herbology and either Combat or Spritualism traditions. Starting with the Mind sphere and I'm thinking the Enhancement sphere. For those who have the books/know what these are, does that sound like a good fit?
I know virtually nothing about Sphere of Power, so I really couldn't tell you. That said, they sound like they make sense for your character, so I'd say go for it. I have a feeling you and I will do well at teaming up on social rolls, since I think we're both invested in them pretty heavily.
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Well, to simplify it, the Herbology tradition basically gives me a few Alchemist-like abilities, such as concoctions that heal, buff/de-buff scores, things like that. No bombs, thought. The Combat tradition gives me pseudo-Magus abilites, such as an arcane pool, etc. Spiritualism gives me the Brawler's Martial Flexibility ability, usable for either feats or magic spheres, plus the bardic knowledge ability to make all Knowledge rolls untrained. Mind sphere gives me the charm spells as an at-will ability, with more powerful forms costing spell points to use. Enhancement sphere basically does what it says, enhances creatures/objects/weapons/etc. Can get sphere abilities that lets me cause confusion and stuff, buff physical/mental abilites, things like that.
And yup, I'm fully geared for social interactions!
I would say one of us be good cop and the other be bad cop, but we are both very evil. Are we bad cop and bad cop, or bad cop and worse cop?
I can see it now...
"You think I'm the bad cop? You don't want to talk to her; I'm on her side, and she threatened to cut off my naughty bits and sacrifice them to her dark god. Trust me, you want to tell me."
That sounds like fun!
Nate can be the good or bad cop depending on what day it is and who's in charge of his brain at the time ;)
Also Aurex is pretty damn intimidating. I've been keeping it maxed out, plus size categories gives you a bonus...plus he's a freaking dragon.
I mean, he is a dragon. I would be very concerned if he wasn't scary.
Intimidate is good, because Soren doesn't actually have it. Soren always struck me as the kind of deal with things through coercion and misdirection, never actual threats, so I opted to leave it off and I figured the rest of the party could fill in for me there if needed.
Any opinion on having a crafter?
Crafting is too useful for its own good, I say go for it.
I'm am going to tweak just a little part of my character and make the sorceror part cross blooded And changing my bloodlines as well to get more damage to blasting if that is allowed? Ok I looked and I think my character might change to be a primal fire/Orc wild blooded sorcerer for the first level.
Fire Affinity: Ifrit sorcerers with the elemental (fire) bloodline treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer spells and class abilities. Ifrit spellcasters with the Fire domain use their domain powers and spells at +1 caster level.
This is a trait I have but I don't have the fire domain but have the Flames mystery, my second question is can I apply this because I think it would have been like that but the Ifrit came before the cleric?
Morana, if you're interested in advancing your Phantom, you might consider a re-build of Spiritualist with Variant Multiclass Witch.
Then you could use your Gestalt level on something else.
edit: You're a gravewalker, which tells me you're probably wanting to go the necromancy route. Spiritualists don't really do that very well (strangely). So, nevermind.
Yeah the necromancy build is defiantly what I am going for. The Gravewalker is way to much fun to trade out. Sadly there are not any options for the Spiritualist in that list because that would be perfect. I really like the flavor of the Phantom and I am sad he will fall behind.
What is it in particular that you like about the phantom? Maybe we can figure out a way to get that same effect with a different mechanic.
I don't want to step on the GM's toes, but I did suggest something to him when I was talking with him that might help your problem with the phantom, at least in part. I'll let him tell you all if he decides to go with it, but he seemed to think it was a decent idea. It, along with Boon Companion, could get you a decently leveled Phantom even if it isn't as strong as it could be.
Also, I'm switching some stuff up too. I'm changing my Gunslinger level from Musket Master to Pistolero, since I feel like an infiltrator would be better served being good at close range combat. Also, since the GM said advanced firearms would be available later in the campaign, so I'll probably put Distance on it, and ranged touch within five range increments is enough to hit people at most distances easily.
I will wait for the GM. I have asked lots of questions.
To answer Grumbles question. I like the phantom mechanically because it give a melee ability to me along side the undead minions I will get and I have grown found of the minion master builds. It is also very geared to protecting his wife, with some of the later abilities that emotion gives. Finding ways to keep my PC alive matters to me.
Fluff wise, which is more important to me, the Phantom is the restless spirit of her dead husband. With him and the poppet turning into a soulbound doll I get to have the whole family and I kind of like that idea. I picked the devotion option for him since he is lingering around out of the love he had to her and their son. There is a part of him that wants to help her get their revenge on the society that failed to get them the justice they deserve. He is the voice of reason to her wild rage. I can still use him fluff wise as more of a counterbalance to her rage but he falls out on being able to help unless I level up in Spiritualist. But as she gets stronger and he does not I am thinking she will be less likely to listen to him. Not sure how that would play out though.
It is certainly a very cool mechanic and I have had enjoyed reading the small bit of that interaction already and would love to see it further down the road.
That is a super cool concept. I didn't realize the phantom was Morana's dead husband.
Leadership would work well to circumvent the fact that your phantom isn't going to progress. A Ghost or Unfettered Phantom Cohort would work perfectly. You could take Boon Companion to get you full phantom progression until 4th level. Then at 7th level you take Leadership, make your phantom your cohort, and retrain Spiritualist and Boon Companion.
Lothryin I am glad you enjoyed it. I have grown fond of the internal conversations and PbP is great for them.
And thank you Grumble. Leadership could be a really cool way to keep him around. I had not even thought of that one. Depends on the Shinning Host.
I am really happy that I go into this game. You all are a really friendly group :D
Good idea Grumble, that is easily doable through leadership, honestly one of the few times I have seen players attempt to use that feat without abusing it.
It is actually one of my favorite feats. Though I do see how someone could abuse it. As far as I am concerned that feat is meant to mechanically beef up the party a little and fill a missing roll. Bur roleplay wise it is meant to help give more depth to a PC.
In one of the face to face games I am in my Druid picked up a small witch child as her ward. She has the insanity patron. The DM has promised to break her. So far it has been a blast. Some fun roleplay has come out of it from the other player and NPCs as they and myself learn a little more about her.
I have seen far too many people try to abuse Leadership, particularly through the followers. I've seen it used to good effect in Kingmaker and Skulls and Shackles, but those are both games were having followers makes a fair bit of sense. I once had a rogue in a 3.5 game with Leadership, she was his sister and filled in for the fact that we had no cleric. My followers were remnants of a thieve's guild I had once run.
Leadership is a dangerous, dangerous feat but when people use it well it's really fun.
I have only been playing for about four years and I have yet to see the feat be abused with the face to face group or the PbP groups I play with. But I can see how it could happen. I have heard plenty of horror stories. Brutal tag teams, hurt feelings, and favoritism. So far I have just been really lucky in having minimal drama at the table and those people have left.
My group thinks I am crazy for letting people take Leadership in the game I am running which is my first campaing and we are going to level 20. They also said that I was crazy for using Mythic and all the extra stuff I have given out but they are having fun so I think I am crazy in a good way.
One of the player in the game I run is taking it to get a cleric and someone to guard their items while they are getting their plot on. The followers on the other hand he want to make what he is calling the Worg express. He would get wolves that he can use in battle if need be but they are mostly for guarding and running messages. Which is going to be very useful later in my game. Another is collecting a sibling to fill the role of rouge which is kind of important since traps are fun and I want to get to use them.
This game also involves managing groups of followers. Eventually we'll need to create our own evil organization. The adventure path pretty much assumes that at least a couple of us will take Leadership.
Everyone really hates on mythic, but to be honest I really enjoy it. It just needs some tweaks and adjustments to run a little more smoothly, but I like tweaking things so it was never a problem for me. Both of the PF games I'm running here on the forums will certainly use some mythic rules, as does my home game. I usually cap the tiers at 5 instead of 10, and tone down some of the ridiculous stuff it tends to draw. Also, you're lucky to not have table drama... I've had my fair share of it.
Most recently, a friend of mine started a game for a bunch of PF newbies, and I offered to join as an experienced player to help him guide the group and provide another source for questions and such. The game eventually exploded after one of the players basically alienated themselves from everyone else by playing a magical stoner who (while not playing a bard, mind you) demanded that he was incessantly playing a didgeridoo. Two other players never payed any attention to the game at all, and yet another decided to purposefully sabotage our attempt to break out of a Chellish prison and then did nothing but sleep or try to find a random, mundane job the entire campaign. Only one of the people from that group that was new still plays with us at all.
I actually have a trait for leadership.
I have had some drama but it tends to get worked out. The big one ended up with me and one of the player sitting and chatting while the GM and the third player, who were dating at the time, sat in the car outside and argued. That was the biggest blow up I have had to deal with. But that player no longer plays with us. He was a minmaxer and a trouble maker. The games are much smoother without his trying to steal from the other players, using them as spring boards, or sleeping on the couch. We have had our bouts of hurt feelings but the group demands that they get worked out.
As to the Mythic rules I love them. They add a fun element to the game. It is high fantasy and the PCs are very powerful and the challenge of keeping them engaged and having fun has been a blast so far. Three of the players have a decade or more experience than me and we are adding two new players who are new to the system in a month when I run again.
I am running one and playing in another mythic game in the forums. I do not intend to take the players past tier 5 because the abilities after that tier become far to much. I have gotten pretty good at using templates to still challenge the party in fights that are not against mythic foes. Eventually they will go to bat with Tar-Baphon as the end game boss. They should be tier 5 and level 20 when that happens. I am looking forward to the insanity!
I have no problem with Mythic. I enjoyed Wrath of the Righteous and have adapted the mythic rules set to my home-brew setting.
I think Mythic Power Attack and Mythic Vital Strike shouldn't be allowed, and a few of the crazier combinations need to be curbed, but for the most part I think it's no more crazy or game breaking than the magic item creation rules.
With the standard rules set, if you want to break the game, you can. If you don't, you won't. Mythic doesn't change that.
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Ever since Mythic came out, my old live GM always used them. Hoping to actually Skype in a game of his since I now live away from my old group. I agree, they're fun but can be a little OP.
As I proved when I single handedly killed off the party after betraying them. One of my fondest gaming memories.
Busy few days including tomorrow, will try to address all of the open questions by Wednesday or Thursday evening.
Mythic can be very fun and is also very rewarding when used correctly. It also can be devastatingly powerful as demonstrated when my dominated cleric cast a mythic blasphemy which paralyzed the entire party. Honestly the problem I have with mythic is the action economy abuse it provides. Using mythic can give you so many actions that even a mythic boss can't keep up with. And I agree on banning mythic power attack and vital strike, that swashbuckler I mentioned earlier had 7-8 attacks and crit for around 200 on a 15-20. Was slightly cheesy so I replaced him after realizing he was too much.