So this AP features plenty of random encounters and I find that I'm having a little difficulty getting them started smoothly.
First off, we know that the terrain information gives us "maximum distance" for a perception check: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/environment.html#mountain-terrain
We know that perception checks are opposed by stealth checks.
If the PCs are exploring, not moving at the half speed required by stealth, do they get a stealth check at all? Are they taking a 0 on stealth? Whose stealth check do we use - the best in the party? The worst? The worst and everybody else is aid another?
For the monsters being encountered - are they being stealthy? I assume the GM can randomly decide if the monsters are stealthy hunters the PCs have happened upon or just monsters traveling about without using stealth.
And then comes the modifiers for distance of -1 per 10 feet. Let's say the encounter is in medium forest where the maximum spotting distance is 90 feet. If the PCs & Monster make their spot check by 2, do you say that they spot each other at 20 feet? Do you start the combat at 90 feet and say that they didn't make the check? If neither side makes the perception check (and nobody is using stealth), do you start the combat with each group right next to each other?
And then surprise. Does the side that makes the perception check by the most always get surprise?
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These are our house rules for encounter awareness, or who sees who first...
One of the players rolls a d20 for the party, and I roll a d20 for the monster when there was an encounter, whoever was lowest saw the other group first. How much first depended on the circumstances and encounter type.
My generic rules were:
Party Bonuses:
1.If there is a scout with any two of perception, stealth, or survival subtract two(2) from the party's roll.
2. If the party used two scouts with these skills, subtract three (3) from the party's roll (does not stack with #1). Using more than two scouts adds nothing to the party rolls.
3. If one of the party scouts was flying at least 100' up
~OR~
If the party has a member or pet with the scent ability, subtract two (2) more from the party dice
Party Penalties:
1. If a horse or character is bleeding, add one to the party die roll.
2. If a fire is going, add two to the party die roll.
3. If there is a fire and food cooking, add three to the party die roll.
4. If there is singing, chanting, combat, or other loud noise, add two to the party die roll.
Monster variables:
1. If the monster is highly perceptive, subtract two (2) from its die roll.
2. If the monster has scent ability or can fly or go invisible, subtract three (3) from its roll
3. If the monster has stealth, subtract one (1) from its roll.
4. If the creature is elemental, fey, or dragon, subtract one (1) from its die roll.
4. If the creature is disabled, in distress, being chased, unperceptive, or otherwise less than focused, add one to three (1-3) points to the monsters roll.
This may sound a bit complicated to keep track of, but I gave the player mods to the players and they kept track of their own rolls, and I only had to track the monsters. I ignored any other arguments, such as having 10 ranks of stealth instead of 4, having HiPS, muffled armor, sneaky horses, and various other rationalizations about how much of a black ops unit the party was in when handling these rolls. Any other really strange circumstances might have a modifier added on the fly.
In play, it goes very fast after a while, much like initiative. Each day I had the player's roll once for day travel and once when they made camp (we had two chances a day to have encounters).
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Opposed stealth and perception checks should always be used with the lowest stealth check in the party when they're together in a group. If any individual in the opposing group beats the lowest stealth role, that individual has spotted that character and has only to alert his friends. You could be the stealthiest guy on the planet, but if the guy next to you is making all kinds of noise, your party will get noticed.
From Stealth skill description on page 106 of the CRB: "When moving at a speed greater than half but less than full speed, you take a -5 penalty. It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging."
I would not allow a party to make stealth checks unless they said they were being stealthy, and then they're moving at half speed, which would double exploration time, or taking a penalty to their rolls. Even with the -5 you can't stealth at full speed (see above).
If they're on horses, it's beside the point. It would be the horses making the stealth checks, not the party (which I still wouldn't allow as I don't believe horses know how to be stealthy, even if they did, you'd have to teach each horse that trick with Animal Handling).
You don't have to resort to randomness to determine if an animal or monster would be using stealth. Any animal (predator) or monster who is intending to attack the party will be using stealth. The only way an adversary wouldn't be using stealth is if they weren't intending to attack, didn't realize the party was there until too late, were intelligent creatures (not animal predators) that were over-confident, etc.
As for the encounter distance, there are random die rolls you can use based on terrain, or you can come up with a distance that makes sense to you.
So this AP features plenty of random encounters and I find that I'm having a little difficulty getting them started smoothly.
First off, we know that the terrain information gives us "maximum distance" for a perception check: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/environment.html#mountain-terrain
We know that perception checks are opposed by stealth checks.
If the PCs are exploring, not moving at the half speed required by stealth, do they get a stealth check at all? Are they taking a 0 on stealth? Whose stealth check do we use - the best in the party? The worst? The worst and everybody else is aid another?
For the monsters being encountered - are they being stealthy? I assume the GM can randomly decide if the monsters are stealthy hunters the PCs have happened upon or just monsters traveling about without using stealth.
And then comes the modifiers for distance of -1 per 10 feet. Let's say the encounter is in medium forest where the maximum spotting distance is 90 feet. If the PCs & Monster make their spot check by 2, do you say that they spot each other at 20 feet? Do you start the combat at 90 feet and say that they didn't make the check? If neither side makes the perception check (and nobody is using stealth), do you start the combat with each group right next to each other?
And then surprise. Does the side that makes the perception check by the most always get surprise?
It does do a persons head in, so you are not alone
decide/roll how 'perceptable' the party are by their numbers, activity, etc
decide/roll hw 'perceptable' the baddies are by their numbers, activity, etc
so party have 'stealth' of say 7 in total (they have a few tanks, are being chatty etc)assuming they have taken a 10
baddies are being stealthy and get a 22
party have a half elf druid and roll a best perception of 29
baddies get a 25
so baddies note pcs at 22-7=150ft away
pcs note baddies at 29-25=30ft away
baddies spot pcs 120ft earlier, except we are in medium forest so its only 90ft away and whole party is surprised
The above is complicated enough never mind that some party may see some baddies and some baddies may see some party members
LUCKILY, at 13th the party druid and inquisitor readily roll 50 perception so they see + hear everything so i no longer have to worry!!!!
It is really, really clunky if you wish to do ths RAW
You don't have to resort to randomness to determine if an animal or monster would be using stealth. Any animal (predator) or monster who is intending to attack the party will be using stealth.
Is that what a Random Encounter result means - you've encountered a monster intent on attacking the party? Or, if you encounter some trolls, does it mean maybe they are hunting (stealth), maybe they're eating, or maybe they're asleep and the GM has to decide which?
OK, if you're not being Stealthy, you get no Stealth check. It's DC 10 to hear a creature walking, a DC 0 to see a visible creature with perception.
4 PCs riding horses get a troll random encounter. Would you have the troll roll 4 times to hear the creatures walking? Does he roll 8 times to hear the horses or to hear the PCs talking as they ride? Would you make it one roll and use the magic GM +2 (maybe +8 for each PC and +6 for the three extra horses, makes it a DC10 - 14 = -4 perception check?)
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@DMFTodd: Our group went through this same type of "gathering modifiers and DCs" discussions several times early on in the game. It got particularly heated the one time when the party figured out it was a hill giant they were encountering and things didnt look so good for them to see him a ways off. After the party all wanted to roll perception checks every time and everyone wanted their specific variables added in, it was taking forever to even BEGIN an encounter. I was empathetic at first, since some of the encounters are brutal at 1st-2nd lvl if you don't see them first. I really hate time sinks though, so we agreed to genericize things for expediency. The fact we were using something other than exact RAW seemed to stump the rules lawyers in our party somewhat, and the debates quickly went away. YMMV though, depending on your group.
Some issues that came up were:
1. how far away does the jangly guy in full plate have to be from the scouts not to give away the presence of the party?
2. Does he get a perception roll even though the initial contact is between the scout and the monster, if the monster is within visible range? Visible range in open grasslands is pretty far.
3. Was the wind blowing from behind the party or in front of the party?
4. Do the horses get perception checks? Are the horses more sensitive to a troll smell out of fear than the troll would be to a horse smell out of hunger?
5. Do the monsters and characters each get perception checks, and if so, whose stealth are they challenging, the guy with -2 in full plate or the rogue with +13?
6. Do the horses get perception checks to alert the party? With 9 players and 11 horses plus a cavaliers mount and an AC, you can see the ridiculousness of that option.
It is not like there aren't rule to figure that all out, it was just not worth the time it required to do it.
A lot of these things I handwaved, saying the character with 5 ranks of survival would know these things and tell the party how to best arrange themselves and which direction to walk so they were optimally traveling with a low footprint.
Unless you have a small party, I suggest figuring out a way to simplify the process, since you will be rolling a lot of those checks during this campaign.