The God Games.

Game Master Captain Wombat

As a single template per NPC, not monster levels
Expand on your question, link the rules things etc.
Cold resistance but not immunity o dear.

I have an effective sorcerer level of 18 for the purpose of bloodline (does not grant bonus feats or spells, just bloodline arcana and bloodline powers)
The robe of arcane heritage increases your effective sorcerer level for that exact purpose by four
I don't have levels in sorcerer, though I do have levels in arcanist which is based on sorcerer
RAW says it is allowed, but I felt it best to ask just in case, I don't want to cause any problems.

I am picking Chaotic Neutral for my character. As for finding the center of the the tootsie pop...

Dam I was gonns go CN.... Since I can't be NN. Hmmmm.

As for finished.. I'm mostly done. Just tweaking things here and there.

Army idea is finished but haven't worked on it yet.

whichever version I work on is CG

This is no reopen should have said so

Sorry, not sure what this phrase means.

My guy is semi insane. I need chaotic alignment!! Ah well... CE if that's taken NE. Not because he is evil he always tries to help others while helping himself... Just goes wrong sometimes

My guy is semi insane. I need chaotic alignment!! Ah well... CE if that's taken NE. Not because he is evil he always tries to help others while helping himself... Just goes wrong sometimes

I'm willing to trade alignments with you. The more I think about it, the more I am leaning towards a 'trickster' style god. I think that NE would work better for me, rather than CN. Besides, no one ever plays NE anymore; if someone plays evil, they almost always go all in these days.

I'm going LE mostly because I have found in practice LN characters are more popular.

I will take Lawful Good, cause evil seems highly over represented.

My army will have a draconic theme to it.

Gm, could I have the mid tear grunts be- clockwork soldiers?

idk if there is a template for that O.o

There is a template here, Reldic: 3pp Advanced Bestiary: Clockwork +2

And another here: 3rd party Clockwork +1 that may fit your needs.

Finally, there are two for clockwork golems, rather than creatures:
Paizo: CR+0 template
3pp: CR+0 template

And for extra flair...
Lifespark

Well there's this one
Edit: ninjaed.

awesomeness. so cr 0 means I can just slap it on any level 1 character?

I am going to move the 1st two chalinges to game thread.

Don't post there just yet, till talk about how you would attempt them.

What I would like is a discription of your PC

I plan To take at this stage every player who makes a PC and Army.

Then there will be two stages, the testes you earn you place in the games and the games.

awesome, I think I will get in on this then. How many people we got so far?

I'm working through a character right now, wizard/godling.

I have a feeling that all the house rules with magic gear is really confusing a few people, me included.

On the one hand, this is gestalt, mythic, and anything on d20pfsrd is allowed, including 3pp. That makes it pretty darn powerful and allows a lot of room for exploitation.

Then we get these "power controlling" rules for magic gear.

So the standard rules state that to craft magic gear you need the appropriate feats, and you pay half the retail price. This is a trade off for paying a feat tax.

Combining two or more items requires paying a 50% tax on the cheaper items. (this is the easiest way to customize gear)

One thing that might help is an explanation of what you are trying to accomplish with the house rules on crafting.

As I read it, the current house rules are:

1) You have to pay the feat tax, but get no reward in reduced cost.
2) You can't craft anything that has a combined caster level higher than 14.
3) We can have all the stock items we can afford.
4) Combining a 10,000 gold item with a 2000 gold item will cost 10,000 + (2000*1.5)+10000=23000 gold. Crafting a 500 gold item will cost an additional (500*1.5)+10000=10,750 gold, for a total cost of 33,750 gold.

If this is what you are intending, I'll just buy slotless versions and pay double. In the example above this would cost me 10,000 gold for the first item (slotted), 4000 for the second (slotless), and 1000 for the third (also slotless) for a total of 15,000 gold, half of what your crafting house rule requires.

And I have no idea what you are trying to say with "What dos combing mean, in regard to CL
It works like this,
THE CL for Belt of Tumbling is 1st, Ring of Swimming +5 is CL 2nd

ADD them, now you have CL3 you can keep adding until you get to CL14"

Here is an example of a combined item under the general crafting rules of the game:

Ring of Protection +5, Feather Fall & Sustenance CRAFTED $25,000 + (1100*1.5=)1650 + (1250*1.5=)1875 =28,525gp
The retail price is $57,050.

This requires the feat forge ring. The craft DC is 5 + item CL +5 per requirement not met (other than the feat). The ring of protection requires shield of faith and a level of bonus x3, the stock ring lists a cl of 5. The base craft DC is thus 10. At 20th level I meet everything but the spell, so I have a DC of 15 to craft the ring. You can bet my spellcraft is going to be a lot higher than 15, so success.

Crafting a feather fall effect onto the same ring has a craft DC of 5+ CL1 = DC 6, success. And finally, the sustenance has a DC of 15 as well for a CL of 5, and needing create food and water spell.

Now that ring certainly isn't a broken item for a 20th level gestalt mythic tier 10 creature.

Maybe this one is:

Ring of Freedom of Movement, Evasion & Mind Shield, CRAFTED $20,000 + ($12,500*1.5=)18750 + ($4000*1.5=)6000 =44,750gp Retail: 89,500.

The craft DC for freedom of movement is 17, adding evasion is 12, and mind shield is 8.

High caster levels on the stock items is actually against the standard rules (the items don't cost as much as they should for the given caster level). However, these caster levels are specifically for dealing with dispel checks. (lower caster level items get dispelled first)

So at the same time you are putting harsh limits on the caster level of crafted gear, you also have a test listing an antimagic field with a DC of 45 specifically against items. (no stock item short of an artifact has a chance of hitting this on anything less than a 20, and per your above house rule, no crafted item can make it short of rolling a 20)

I guess it comes down to, what are you wanting to guard against?
Here are a few simplified options to consider:
1) Require the feat, give a cost break (the fighter gets combat feats, the crafter gets more gear).
2) Limit how much crafting gets a break (say only half of the PC's personal gear can be crafted with a price break for having the feats).
3) Limit how much crafting is allowed at retail price, no feat required.
4) The only custom gear is combined items that already exist on d20pfsrd, per the standard rules. Retail prices. No feat required, anyone can have it (since retail price is paid).

Next, what do you mean by having experience available for the army's?

A leadership score of 25 gives a total of 163 npc's of levels 1-6.
You stated that Band 1 is 50 level 1-2 npcs(leadership gives 135 1st level npcs). What is the 500 xp for? It almost sounds like a 3.5 rule on XP expenditures. 500 XP is not enough to get to 2nd level, so it's effectively wasted on 1st level npcs. Are npcs in the army's going to be leveling? (Not generally something that happens with leadership followers)

While the tests are certainly interesting, I wonder if there is a realization that due to the very nature of each test (and that only the character without any familiar/intelligent gear/etc) must perform each test, that some character options are being eliminated as potential candidates.

Have you looked at the mass combat rules? They might help simplify and equalize what people have available.

My Dragon, Kathandrax the Wrath, shall lead his minions of kobolds and lesser draconics into battle against the hordes of robots, undead, and plants that seem to be running amok around the world. He shall be strong, fast, and swift, and carry the blood of the divine within him with grace and tenacity.

Mechanically, he's going to be a taninim Draconic exemplar 20/Clever Godling 20/not sure about mythic yet 10.

I plan to have kobolds as my army. They are noble and honorable servitors.

I think I am the least broken character here. hahaha.

There's an antimagic field against magic items requiring a caster level check DC45? I don't really see a point in buying magic gear if that's the case

I'm all about my items. Could go druid/ monk tho

if I'm understanding this correctly, they won't make it past the AMF

I'm just gonna take them off before I enter.

Although. Since my 3pp class is half about making stuff I'd enjoy the discount. My guy kills things well, but he needs the items for most other things. (Admittedly, he can fly/ go invisible (Greater) for minimal amounts of time but e .

Actually thinking about maybe changing reldic a bit... Hmm.

yup. Gonna go Möbius weapon. Mechanus is awesome, and really good early on, but he is really just a liability at this level lol. Besides, I have my general and army to represent my fluff. Sniper time.

BTW, does our general get the 21rp race?

Ok what do you guys think, Vetala vampire or Half dragon

Why not a half dragon vetala vampire?

The Dragon thyme is taken sorry LF2

WE have Horde Thymes of

Undead Horde
Draconic Horde
Mecanical Horde
Plant Horde

as yet we have not had

Demon Horde
Devil Horde
Angelic Horde
Human Horde
Elf Horde
Halfing Horde
serpent Horde
Vampiric Horde
Shadow Horde
Psinoic Horde
Giants Horde
Sea being Horde
Summoners Horde
Girl Scout Horde

etc You get the idea. But remember 8 players max.
You will represent your Aliment every one in your army must be of that Aliment.

also Sorry of I missed a Q from any more, fielding PMS as well as here
Could I ask that you not send PMS but spoiler stuff here please.
Its a big distraction reading pages v pms I only have so much time.

Magic items
Ok Magic Items why the crafting limit, its because with out one things would brake real fast and every one would be a crafter.

Stock Items fine as long as they are not artefacts.

Crafted items, you pay the crafting price in coin/feats and skills with you and your army making every thing you craft. Max CL for all effects in a crafted item CL14.

The 2 tests
They will be in the game, with some small changed, in the god games you will compete with each others in Challenges set buy the god gamers. you HAVE to try them all but that could be walking up to it tapping it and saying nope, it beat me and going back to you camp, tail between you legs all sad and upset. Wile other mock you.

The gods that run this game like that very much,

alignments
You can pick any of 8 LG/NG/CG/LN/CN/LE/LN/CE but not NN, thats for the Refs of the games.

thyme
Claim that thyme, if your the undead army then say so.

So could every one whos making a PC + Army now please
give me

NAME:
Thyme:
Alignment:

Nothing more for now just that.

Thanks

1 because limitations on one template per person,
2: because I can't afford to give up more than 3 levels worth in templates (each of these are 2)

I'm just gonna take them off before I enter.

You only have to make the check if your wearing the items, so you can just carry them in and gear up?

People been picking various alignment heh...

The Great Mogu will go for LN (assuming it's still available).

As for the armies, going with Vanaras, yeah that's right an army of Monkey people.

Magic items
Ok Magic Items why the crafting limit, its because with out one things would brake real fast and every one would be a crafter.

Custom crafting rules confuse me a bit. Adding a homebrew aspect to those rules, I feel like I'm smacking my face against a brick wall here. I'd rather do no crafting at all. It's your game, but it'd be much simpler, and completely balanced.

Also, I'm a bit confused about the AMF. Could you explain this again?

I kind of want to do this. But I don't think I have it in me to get -all- of that stuff straight in my head. I'd love to play a neutral good shaman/druid, and focus on Magical School GirlsWitches, Druids, Shaman, Oracles and Clerics with Animals/Magical Beasts for the big ranks. But I feel like I'd always be having to reread everything.

So I just want you to know I support this, I'll keep reading and trying to help out where I can, but I -really- don't think I'm a great fit.

Also, for those who are posting: Antimagic Fields don't destroy magic items. They simply turn them off. No power, so to speak, unless otherwise stated. The gist is 'get through this wall that regenerates without magic'.

As an example of how my character would handle that, she'd just summon a few huge creatures and start hurling boulders into the wall along with them until the wall is broken, and the fast healing goes away. Wildshape for pretty much all the rest. :P

@jimibones83

The crafting rules are because without them, you can't have a +5 flaming, sonic holy longsword. You also can't have a +1 silver dagger, unless it is listed as a specific weapon at d20pfsrd. You are pretty much stuck with only the specific magic weapons already listed at d20pfsrd. Which really, really sucks at this level when you potentially have many varied opponents to go up against.

And if you have ever played a high level character before, you know that you will quickly fill your slots up.

So you have a ring of protection and a ring of freefall on. Which are you taking off to put on the freedom of movement ring?

Crafting, at its simplest, lets you combine multiple items. You pay a "tax" of 50% of the cheaper items to add their ability to the most expensive item.

Casting classes have access to the crafting feats. The crafting feats generally say you spend half the cost to craft an item.

GM's are understandably leery of letting a cleric have twice as much gear as the fighter. Many GMs forget that the fighter has a crap-load of combat feats while the cleric has to spend their few feats to buy the cheaper gear.

So generally, if a GM doesn't want to have discounted crafting they won't require the feats. This opens it up to everyone being able to pick the weapon and armor qualities they want, just pay the retail price.

Unfortunately, our GM would prefer to have rules that limit crafting so much as to effectively eliminate it as an option.

For instance, with the CL 14 rule, no scrolls of spells higher than 7th level. Scrolls are the backbone of a caster, so they're kinda screwed. Well you can 'cheat' by picking a spell from the summoner list that is 6th level instead of 9th on the cleric/wizard list.

No crafted item that uses a spell of 7th level or higher (CL 15).

No metamagic rods that aren't listed since the base CL is 17 for any metamagic rod.

So really, to figure this out, just open your corebook (or other approved book), turn to the magic items pages, and pick items specifically listed.

I went back and looked at the most recent iteration of the crafting rule: "Crafted items, you pay the crafting price in coin/feats and skills with you and your army making every thing you craft. Max CL for all effects in a crafted item CL14."

It sounds like you have to have the feat(s), but you do get the price break to pay the crafting cost instead of the retail cost. But you are still limited to items that only use spells under 7th level.

@Hotaru

The GM specifically stated that the antimagic/dispel field was targeting items, the DC was 45, and it was a permanent dispel.

heh I'll just keep casting mage disjunction on it. 20% to destroy the AMF...is not too bad (without any CL boost, which I can get easily with items), probably would be closer to 25% to destroy the AMF from the wall, then just walk into the vacuum.

Name: De'ohge
Theme: angelic/celestial OR shadow
Alignment: NG OR CN

Two options.

@Hotaru

The GM specifically stated that the antimagic/dispel field was targeting items, the DC was 45, and it was a permanent dispel.

Noted. :)

The crafting rules are because without them, you can't have a +5 flaming, sonic holy longsword. You also can't have a +1 silver dagger, unless it is listed as a specific weapon at d20pfsrd. You are pretty much stuck with only the specific magic weapons already listed at d20pfsrd. Which really, really sucks at this level when you potentially have many varied opponents to go up against.

I didn't even know there was a such thing as a sonic weapon.

But besides that, when I said no crafting would be easier, I didn't mean no custom gear. My suggestion was that everyone pay full price by the rules in the CRB, as if they had it made and paid full price.

You could craft your items with spell immunity (anti magic field)
But then that could be considered meta gaming if you did it to all of it

fnord72 wrote:

The crafting rules are because without them, you can't have a +5 flaming, sonic holy longsword. You also can't have a +1 silver dagger, unless it is listed as a specific weapon at d20pfsrd. You are pretty much stuck with only the specific magic weapons already listed at d20pfsrd. Which really, really sucks at this level when you potentially have many varied opponents to go up against.

I didn't even know there was a such thing as a sonic weapon.

But besides that, when I said no crafting would be easier, I didn't mean no custom gear. My suggestion was that everyone pay full price by the rules in the CRB, as if they had it made and paid full price.

it's thundering and thundering burst.

actually according to the rules on magic items:
you can buy items, at any CL from the pfsrd...the thing is, you just can't craft them yourself beyond CL 14 for combination rules.

You are better off just buying a bunch of items and switch them around when you need to.

Heh I wouldn't worry about the full casters since virtually every single ones of them is going to take the path ability which let them cast any spells even if they don't have it in their spellbook or know it, as long as it is on their spell list. At tier 10, we would have 23 mythic powers, so yeah can potentially cast 23 spells that you don't have on your spells prepared/known in 1 hour...and then you regain 1 mythic power point every hour. When you sleep at night for 8 hour, you regain all mythic powers.

The crafting rules mostly screw with martial characters.

Yeah I have no idea how a martial character would be able to deal with the second trial.

@fnord72 + @jimibones83

The crafting rules are because without them, you can't have a +5 flaming, sonic holy longsword. You also can't have a +1 silver dagger, unless it is listed as a specific weapon at d20pfsrd. You are pretty much stuck with only the specific magic weapons already listed at d20pfsrd. Which really, really sucks at this level when you potentially have many varied opponents to go up against.

Yep in a nut shell

And if you have ever played a high level character before, you know that you will quickly fill your slots up.So you have a ring of protection and a ring of freefall on. Which are you taking off to put on the freedom of movement ring?Crafting, at its simplest, lets you combine multiple items. You pay a "tax" of 50% of the cheaper items to add their ability to the most expensive item.Casting classes have access to the crafting feats. The crafting feats generally say you spend half the cost to craft an item.GM's are understandably leery of letting a cleric have twice as much gear as the fighter. Many GMs forget that the fighter has a crap-load of combat feats while the cleric has to spend their few feats to buy the cheaper gear.

Yep just my point. But now I am worried about non magic user classes.
Humm

So generally, if a GM doesn't want to have discounted crafting they won't require the feats. This opens it up to everyone being able to pick the weapon and armor qualities they want, just pay the retail price. Unfortunately, our GM would prefer to have rules that limit crafting so much as to effectively eliminate it as an option. For instance, with the CL 14 rule, no scrolls of spells higher than 7th level. Scrolls are the backbone of a caster, so they're kinda screwed. Well you can 'cheat' by picking a spell from the summoner list that is 6th level instead of 9th on the cleric/wizard list. No crafted item that uses a spell of 7th level or higher (CL 15). No metamagic rods that aren't listed since the base CL is 17 for any metamagic rod.
So really, to figure this out, just open your corebook (or other approved book), turn to the magic items pages, and pick...

Humm good points, looking at it like that I am going to UP the CL for

Crafted Items Max now is CL20 I think that will allow more

Also
Non Crafting PC CAN have items made bespoke but they must pay full price not crafting price for each of the combined or made/crafted item.

That way they can have them but at a price.

This should open up more items to every one.

You say you don't have a Demon army? Let me fix that. Half Succubus(Demons Revisited 54) Rakasha spawn Tiefling Master Summoner 18/Abyssal blooded Sorcerer 20. Hehehe.

My army consists of Demons and Tieflings.

Cool

Note to LF2 and others, I want to see where states, skill levels and things come from, add links to alts where you can, makes life so much simpler for me.

Also if you take a swipe in a challenge at another player or there armys
they get the right to check your PC/NPCs to know the numbers are right, at this level. I want no fudging LF2, there will be arguments of rules.
SO check you have it right,

Make 1 mistake ok

make 2 bad

make a load LF2 like adding things more then once and NOT following rules you dont like I will be mean, and you dont want the GM to be mean at you, so no out and out cheating fudging muummm-ka

Wait I can easily craft most of my gear. ( my shtick) so I can nab them at crafting price?

Yes

IF you make your own [you need the feats and skills] you get them at crafting price. CL20 Max for items

If you buy bespoke [with the +50% tax CL20 Max for items] or stock items, you pay full price.

+5 max on weapons TH enharncement etc still stands

Name: Zarex
Thyme: Demons
Alignment: CE

Thank you for reading my counterpoints and not blasting me for "arguing"

That effectively means that we are using rules as noted in the book then.

To craft your own stuff, you need the appropriate feat, and you get a price break.

You can buy custom gear at the retail price if you don't have the feats.

Note that both of those options still have to pay a 50% fee for combining the qualities of two items.

Noncasters can take a feat (master crafstman?) that allows them to craft wondrous items as if they were a caster.

If you are concerned about casters having too much gear, you could just state everyone pays retail and can have whatever they want (truly custom items still need approval). No feats needed.