Flaxseed Lodge (PFS1)

Game Master Redelia

If I have a character playing in their first module (L1 Confirmation) and they get hit with a debilitating disease, should I just retire the character/treat them as dead?

They won't be able to adventure effectively with diminished attributes, and would be a detriment to a party they went out exploring with, and they won't be able to get the PP to 'pay' for such healing, right.

Don't worry, it's not as dire as all that. First off, if you got a disease in The Confirmation, you're either dealing with malaria or fungal rot. In either case, the disease should not even take effect for at least one full day after exposure and all The Confirmation action takes place over 1 day. You shouldn't even suffer any effects until you are done with your scenario and on the way back, so you should not be a detriment to your party in the least.

Second, you'll get a new save to fight off the effects at least once per day. Some diseases are cured as soon as you make a save, others take 2 consecutive or more, but everything in the Confirmation is nerfed a bit, so it shouldn't be a tough save.

Finally, if you don't shake off the disease before you return to Absalom, you should be able to purchase a casting of Remove Disease for 150 gp.(Page 23 of the Guide to Organized Play) And if you are short, your party members CAN chip in and help you with that cost. In fact, with the new journal cards, Silver Crusade members will get a check for it.

And I think you can use your gp and PP from your Confirmation Chronicle to resolve the condition, if need be. All in all, prognosis is very likely not fatal. ^_~

Oops, ninja'd and now somewhat redundant!

I wouldn't say it's redundant. :)

Your post does a better job of explaining it to the individual while I was more focused on in general. Actually, with our powers combined, I think we covered it pretty well.

Oh, disease damage comes back over time? That does change things. I was thinking that it'd require at least Lesser Restoration for each attribute afflicted, with possibly multiple castings depending on how bad the 'beat disease' rolls went.

Admittedly, I haven't been following the faction cards, either, they seem kind of cumbersome and distracting, even moreso than day job rolls?

Thanks to everyone for the feedback! Now just have to avoid the 'dying' part.

Yeah, I guess there might be the rare disease out there that is permanent and would have to be dealt with by the end of the scenario but the vast majority of diseases just cause ability damage, which heals at 1 point per night. So you will have healed up completely by your next adventure and you don't really need to worry about it.

Oh, that's refreshing. Think I got it in my head from old-school adventuring and gaming.

Also, NOT looking at it right now, especially with the above information, but what is the etiquette for playing-by-post with a pregen?

Is it one of those things that is frowned on, actively discouraged, or accepted with mild irritation?

Ideally one shouldn't have to, but there might be circumstances where a module comes up that are 'out of level range'?

Yeah, I guess there might be the rare disease out there that is permanent and would have to be dealt with by the end of the scenario but the vast majority of diseases just cause ability damage, which heals at 1 point per night. So you will have healed up completely by your next adventure and you don't really need to worry about it.

It's not that. Each day (or whatever the reoccurring time is) you take more ability damage, (and sometimes other things), which will be more than or at best equal to what you can heal.

The other thing is, while you still have a disease, you are a carrier, so have the potential to spread it. So the Disease must be removed by the end of the scenario, so it can't continue to eat away at the character. The Ability Damage it causes though, isn't really a big deal. The problem with diseases, though, is they usually have an incubation period (that is they do not affect you at all immediately, they kick in a day or two later), and then usually each day start to get worse. It's not rare at all, ALL Diseases are permanent until cured. The cure could be, and usually is a few consecutive saves, or the Heal skill, or through magic. Lycanthropy and Mummy Rot are the two big ones that are really difficult to deal with, but all diseases can be an issue.

Let's look at the most common one, Filth Fever:

That means if you fail the initial save, usually by being hit by something that carries it, for the first 1-3 days, you will not have any ill affects at all, (incubation 1d3 days), but you are afflicted with it, (and thus also a carrier). This is also, in PFS, where it becomes an issue in need of curing by the end of the scenario. At the end of that incubation period, each and every day you need to make another Ford Save, or take 1d3 Dex Damage and also 1d3 Con Damage (important because for ever 2 Con damage you take, it's going to become harder to get over the disease). At minimum, you are going to take 1 Dex and 1 Con Damage on a failed Save, and because you only heal 1 point of ability damage a day, (not from each Ability score, from all of them), each time you fail a save, you are taking at least an additional 1 Ability Damage beyond what you can heal. That is, you heal 1 ability damage per day, but are taking 2. Again, that's best case. Worst case, you are taking 6 ability damage a day and healing one, which is a -5 net rating.

It takes 2 saves in a row to actually get over the disease, and for an Elven Wizard, with an additional -1 Con, that could easily be an issue requiring a Nat 15+ each time in a row to get over. Lets say your original Con score was 12, and after 34 days of very poor rolling, you take max Con Damage, the Con Penalty is equal to your actual Con score, meaning you just died upon awaking that morning. Not common, but could happen, especially with Paizo's online dice roller.

Disease is one of those things where giving it extra "off screen" time to get over does not help.

Oh, that's refreshing. Think I got it in my head from old-school adventuring and gaming.

Also, NOT looking at it right now, especially with the above information, but what is the etiquette for playing-by-post with a pregen?

Is it one of those things that is frowned on, actively discouraged, or accepted with mild irritation?

Ideally one shouldn't have to, but there might be circumstances where a module comes up that are 'out of level range'?

Depends on the DM. Most, and I say this loosly, mostly speaking for myself, are okay with it, IF it is not a case where you are kicking out another player that hasn't had the opportunity to play with a real character. Just like in Face to Face games, that usually means includes, "I don't have a character in level range" regardless of it's because you are in so many games you have no characters or because you want to jump into high level play when you have no really gotten a character to that point yet.

Personally, I wish there where an option to skip 1st-3rd level entirely (beyond DM credit), it's boring, but that's a different thread to itself. So, if you can get a GM to okay it, then cool. Personally, I'd be absolutely up front with the fact, and go with that.

There are several threads on this, but I was wondering if there has been any clarification on it for PFS--if I want to buy barding made of a special material (medium sized animal) what gets doubled in the cost? Let's use mitral chain shirt, for example. The 100 base cost becomes 200. Does the 1000 for mithral get doubled to 2000? For darkleaf cloth, does 750 get doubled to 1.5k? If I just get masterwork armor for barding, does the 150 MW cost get doubled?

Also, suppose I have armor for my AC when he's medium sized and I hit level 7, making him large sized? Is there anything I can do to change it to large armor, or would I have to sign it and buy new armor?

Part one is very discussable, though I'm in the camp of "Mithral adds 1000 to the chain shirt's cost, thus the cost multiplied includes the mirthral." There is very little "proof" to it, but that's kinda the case on both camps.

The lack of permanent (in a cross-scenario sense) effects in PFS makes part two very tricky. There is a magic item in Inner Sea Gods to resize armour (doable to large with Enlarge Person Shenanigans), but the effect carrying over to the next scenario is unlikely to get okayed, since even weapon blanches had to get specifically ruled to carry over at end of scenario. If it is a viable alternative for you, getting a wand of Mage Armour or Shield of Faith (preferably the former for an hour of a higher bonus) for someone to hit your companion with may be your best Society option. If your creature has a wrist slot, Bracers of Armour are universally sized.

Mithral Shirt for a Large Creature...

Armor and shields for unusually big creatures, unusually little creatures, and non-humanoid creatures (such as horses) have different costs and weights from those given on Table: Armor and Shields. Refer to the appropriate line on Table: Armor for Unusual Creatures and apply the multipliers to cost and weight for the armor type in question.

This is very specific, because it is telling you precisely where and when to do the calculation, namely, to the line item cost in the section 'Table:armour and shields'.

There is no such wording in the cost for the Mithral, it simply prescribes a a sum that is to be added to the cost.

So the difference is that the 'multiplier' specifies where it needs to be.

This also makes sense in that the multipliers are very different even though the size of the armour doesn't change. A Large humanoid is x2 and a Large non-humanoid is x4, yet the size and weight of the armour doesnt change, so why would it cost an additional 2000 for materials when no additional materials were used?

Anyhow, the whole thing is a mess, some items are by weight, some are flat fee. It's a bunfight.

That's all my opinion anyhow, its a broken system that makes little sense, so apply the most simple logic - and BODMAS.

#TLDR; Large Chain Shirt non-humanoid in Mith = 1400gp.

Admittedly, I haven't been following the faction cards, either, they seem kind of cumbersome and distracting, even moreso than day job rolls?

Thanks to everyone for the feedback! Now just have to avoid the 'dying' part.

I'm a very detail oriented person, so I'm usually eager to embrace any new aspect of play.

But I have been wondering about to best handle these, especially if you both play online games and in person events... This thread is a great place to discuss such things. Would making the Journal page the base for an editable Google doc or something work? I generally bring my laptop when I play in person and could pull it up for the GM to mark. How have most people been handling the cards so far?

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Admittedly, I haven't been following the faction cards, either, they seem kind of cumbersome and distracting, even moreso than day job rolls?

Thanks to everyone for the feedback! Now just have to avoid the 'dying' part.

I'm a very detail oriented person, so I'm usually eager to embrace any new aspect of play.

But I have been wondering about to best handle these, especially if you both play online games and in person events... This thread is a great place to discuss such things. Would making the Journal page the base for an editable Google doc or something work? I generally bring my laptop when I play in person and could pull it up for the GM to mark. How have most people been handling the cards so far?

With the VoIP group I was running with (currently on a bit of hiatus) the GM would keep copies of the cards and mail them out when we accomplished a task on them so we'd have an updated copy.

Mileage may vary?

The GM doesn't need to mark the cards. It's just the honor system.

-Posted with Wayfinder

Are thistle arrows as awesome as they sound? For one gold piece my arrow does bleed damage for 1d6 rounds? Just with gravity bow and a decent shot I'm doing 10 bleed damage for 3 or 4 rounds from one shot? Seems brutal at low level. I'm considering getting the adventurer's armory just for these arrows.

It does 1 bleed damage for 1d6 rounds. It's worded badly, but that was the official ruling if I remember right.

Mithral Shirt for a Large Creature...

Armor for Unusual Creatures wrote:

Armor and shields for unusually big creatures, unusually little creatures, and non-humanoid creatures (such as horses) have different costs and weights from those given on Table: Armor and Shields. Refer to the appropriate line on Table: Armor for Unusual Creatures and apply the multipliers to cost and weight for the armor type in question.

This is very specific, because it is telling you precisely where and when to do the calculation, namely, to the line item cost in the section 'Table:armour and shields'.

There is no such wording in the cost for the Mithral, it simply prescribes a a sum that is to be added to the cost.

So the difference is that the 'multiplier' specifies where it needs to be.

This also makes sense in that the multipliers are very different even though the size of the armour doesn't change. A Large humanoid is x2 and a Large non-humanoid is x4, yet the size and weight of the armour doesnt change, so why would it cost an additional 2000 for materials when no additional materials were used?

Anyhow, the whole thing is a mess, some items are by weight, some are flat fee. It's a bunfight.

That's all my opinion anyhow, its a broken system that makes little sense, so apply the most simple logic - and BODMAS.

#TLDR; Large Chain Shirt non-humanoid in Mith = 1400gp.

So I can buy a medium-sized darkleaf cloth leather lamellar armor for my Animal Companion for (60 x2) + 750 = 870 gp? That doesn't seem too bad. I think it's worth 435 for him to have decent armor for 4 levels.

It does 1 bleed damage for 1d6 rounds. It's worded badly, but that was the official ruling if I remember right.

That is significantly less good, lol.

So I can buy a medium-sized darkleaf cloth leather lamellar armor for my Animal Companion for (60 x2) + 750 = 870 gp? That doesn't seem too bad. I think it's worth 435 for him to have decent armor for 4 levels.

Priovided you are an Elf or a Half Elf, yes.

The caveat would be:
"As such padded, leather, studded leather, and hide armor can be made out of darkleaf cloth (although other types of armor made of leather or hide might be possible)"

You might find some GM's disagree with Lamellar because it doesn't specifically state it, though surely its RAI. As a player I err on the side of 'what would a grognard say, and would I get angry about it if they did' and adjust to worst case, though as a GM I certainly wouldn't oppose it.

mbauers wrote:

So I can buy a medium-sized darkleaf cloth leather lamellar armor for my Animal Companion for (60 x2) + 750 = 870 gp? That doesn't seem too bad. I think it's worth 435 for him to have decent armor for 4 levels.

Priovided you are an Elf or a Half Elf, yes.

The caveat would be:
"As such padded, leather, studded leather, and hide armor can be made out of darkleaf cloth (although other types of armor made of leather or hide might be possible)"

You might find some GM's disagree with Lamellar because it doesn't specifically state it, though surely its RAI. As a player I err on the side of 'what would a grognard say, and would I get angry about it if they did' and adjust to worst case, though as a GM I certainly wouldn't oppose it.

Why Elf or Half Elf? Did I miss something somewhere?

Yeah, I don't think you need to be elf or half elf:

"Note: Alternate racial traits, racial archetypes, racial evolutions, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed)"

Darkleaf is sourced from the Elf section of the ARG, and is racially specific.

The items are legal for PFS play, but the ARG resource rules for PFS state:

Here
Alternate racial traits, racial archetypes, racial evolutions, racial feats, and racial spells are only available for characters of the associated race. Racial equipment and magic items can be purchased and used by any race as long as the specific item permits it (for example, only halflings can purchase and use solidsmoke pipeweed).

Well, if you look at the example they provide of the solidsmoke pipeweed, only halflings can benefit from it because the item specifies that (right in the description of the item). I take that to mean that, because the darkleaf cloth doesn't specify it only works on elves, that anyone can use it.

I went and had a look at a bunch of other questions re:race & items, and it seems the prevailing thought from the forums is more in line with you can use unless the item restricts it - so sure the broader consensus is that you can purchase the darkleaf and use it regardless of race :)

I don't see a problem with that myself.

And, as I sit here looking for what options to continue with my character I have just figured out that my Animal Companion I've been using (Spinosaurus) isn't PFS-legal, and I'm already level 2.

Son of a ...

How do I go about fixing this so I don't have to scrap the character? It was a really dumb mistake, but for some reason I never thought that AC choices would be restricted/would require additional resources.

I've always assumed that in that situation you just swap the illegal character component out for something legal. :shrug:

You need to release your spinosaurus and get a new creature for an animal companion.

"If a druid releases her companion from service, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer in the environment where the new companion typically lives."

Unlike wizards, there is no cost associated with this, so you are free to choose a new animal companion with no penalty (unless you have bought gear specifically for the creature; e.g. horseshoes when you switch from a pony to a wolf).

Can I train the new creature in between scenarios? Without the attack trick, things could get ugly, lol.

Can I train the new creature in between scenarios? Without the attack trick, things could get ugly, lol.

Indeed it could! Fortunately, you get to begin with bonus tricks at least. This was the closest FAQ item to the subject.

How is the replacement of a dead familiar, animal companion or paladin’s or cavalier's mount handled?

If you lose a companion during the course of a scenario, work with your GM for that scenario to properly note the loss on your Chronicle sheet. You should also note that you’ve gained your new companion. The new companion is ready for play in the next scenario after your previous companion died. Newly summoned animal companions begin play knowing a number of tricks equal to the bonus tricks granted based on your druid level. All other tricks require the use of Handle Animal to train the new animal companion as normal.

Regarding "as normal":

How can I teach tricks to an animal using Handle Animal?

You can teach any animal a trick so long as you follow the rules for Handle Animal on pages 97–98 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. A GM must observe your Handle Animal check, and must initial what tricks the animal gained in the "Conditions Gained" section of the scenario's Chronicle sheet. The first time a character with levels in druid, ranger, or any other class that grants an animal companion gains an animal companion, the animal enters play knowing its maximum number of tricks as dictated by the animal companion's Intelligence and the character's effective druid level. If the character replaces the animal companion for any reason, the new animal starts with no tricks known, save for bonus tricks granted based on the PC's effective druid level. Once per scenario, you may attempt to train the animal companion a number of times equal to the number of ranks you have in the Handle Animal skill. Each success allows you to teach the animal a single trick; a failed attempt counts against the total number of training attempts allowed per scenario, and you may not attempt to teach the same trick until the next scenario. Alternatively, you may train one animal for a single purpose as long as you have enough ranks in Handle Animal to train the animal in each trick learned as part of that purpose. You may take 10 on Handle Animal checks to teach an animal companion tricks.

Regarding darkleaf cloth: it is also listed in Ultimate Equipment and I don't beleive the race restriction is in that book so there is no restriction on it as far as I'm aware.

mbauers wrote:

Can I train the new creature in between scenarios? Without the attack trick, things could get ugly, lol.

Indeed it could! Fortunately, you get to begin with bonus tricks at least. This was the closest FAQ item to the subject.

PFS FAQ wrote:

How is the replacement of a dead familiar, animal companion or paladin’s or cavalier's mount handled?

If you lose a companion during the course of a scenario, work with your GM for that scenario to properly note the loss on your Chronicle sheet. You should also note that you’ve gained your new companion. The new companion is ready for play in the next scenario after your previous companion died. Newly summoned animal companions begin play knowing a number of tricks equal to the bonus tricks granted based on your druid level. All other tricks require the use of Handle Animal to train the new animal companion as normal.

Regarding "as normal":

PFS FAQ wrote:

How can I teach tricks to an animal using Handle Animal?

You can teach any animal a trick so long as you follow the rules for Handle Animal on pages 97–98 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook. A GM must observe your Handle Animal check, and must initial what tricks the animal gained in the "Conditions Gained" section of the scenario's Chronicle sheet. The first time a character with levels in druid, ranger, or any other class that grants an animal companion gains an animal companion, the animal enters play knowing its maximum number of tricks as dictated by the animal companion's Intelligence and the character's effective druid level. If the character replaces the animal companion for any reason, the new animal starts with no tricks known, save for bonus tricks granted based on the PC's effective druid level. Once per scenario, you may attempt to train the animal companion a number of times equal to the number of ranks you have in

...

Thanks for the info! And wow, does this really suck! I mean, I understand not wanting people to frivolously change ACs, but my new one would start out with one bonus trick and I'll now have to take forever attempting two checks per scenario. I think this will basically make the character unplayable, at least for gen con, as I doubt I'll be able to play enough to get the AC at least a few tricks. I'm pretty disappointed.

You need to release your spinosaurus and get a new creature for an animal companion.

"If a druid releases her companion from service, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer in the environment where the new companion typically lives."

Unlike wizards, there is no cost associated with this, so you are free to choose a new animal companion with no penalty...

Looking at the subsequent discussion, it would appear there is a HUGE penalty for doing this?

There isn't a better way to just handle it as 'This animal companion should never have been allowed in the first place, direct swap-out to bring in-line with RAW?'

I've always assumed that in that situation you just swap the illegal character component out for something legal. :shrug:

I would have to vote in favor of this. I do not believe it is the in the best interest of anyone to penalize a player due to a change in rules. Simply replace the AC and give it the same tricks.

Yeah, I'm a dwarf hunter, 8 cha. My handle animal isn't the best, even with the +4 bonus. I really don't want to go through several scenarios with an AC who can't do anything and pay $10 to do it (need to get the pdf of the bestiary 4 or whatever for the new companion), only to fail the handle animal roll at the end and do it all again. It's not fair to the other members of the party, too, to have someone just sitting there not doing much. As far as bonus tricks, I have one, so it would be attack. But one trick in attack only lets you fight humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or other animals. Constructs, undead, magical beasts, aberrations, my new creature would just sit there. Not to mention it will keep attacking and kill a subdued opponent since I don't have "heel".

I know I post a lot of rules questions on here, and I appreciate all of the feedback and discussion on these issues from everyone. It does seem that there is some variation between what different GMs rule on certain things, which is fine, but in this case if I buy the PDF and redo everything and I'm told I can't use it, then I'll be mad (vs my current state of just disappointment).

Is there a VC or something I can talk to to get it straightened out officially before I invest further time and money on the issue?

If you took an illegal feat by accident and went to fix it would you have to pay retraining costs? I wouldn't think so. Especially not when you're the one who discovers you made a mistake and you're the one who's rectifying it. Why should you be punished for doing the right thing?

Just swap it out.

-Posted with Wayfinder

If it is an honest mistake, the typical action is just to fix the error. Accidents happen.

Please see the following post related to PbP GMs who are 4-Star and above:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sf91?4Star-PbP-GM-Rollcall

Thanks!

Soon... soon...

Going to take another couple of months for me I suspect :)

Working my way there. Getting close to third star.

Man, some great online DM's in that thread! What a roster...

So many 4-stars!

Does the bonus for masterwork musical instruments apply to day job checks using that skill?

I'm looking at perform (percussion)--Sure, I could get a drum, but could I get a darkwood maraca or something? Looking for something different, and hopefully something I could use in one hand.

Does the bonus for masterwork musical instruments apply to day job checks using that skill?

Yeah, it would.

Not every Pathfinder works for the Society full time. Some are trained artisans, professionals, or performers and earn extra gold on the side, between missions. During these times, you can attempt a trained Craft, Perform, or Profession check to see how much extra money you earn—this is called a Day Job check. In the Pathfinder Society campaign, you may make one Day Job check after the end of each adventure. Certain Vanities (Pathfinder Society Field Guide 60) allow you to further modify your Day Job rolls, or even let you use skill ranks from other, more specialized skills like Heal or Sleight of Hand as Day Job rolls.

Permanent bonuses from equipment, feats, racial bonuses, and traits affect your Day Job check as they would any check for the rolled skill, but temporary bonuses such as those granted by spell effects, other than crafter’s fortune, do not contribute, as the duration over which the Day Job check is made is undefined and represents a longer amount of time than a spell’s duration would permit the bonus to remain. You may take 10 on a Day Job check, but you may not take 20 nor can you aid another.

I'm looking at perform (percussion)--Sure, I could get a drum, but could I get a darkwood maraca or something? Looking for something different, and hopefully something I could use in one hand.

Would have to look through Ultimate Equipment(?). Not sure what is available.

Does the bonus for masterwork musical instruments apply to day job checks using that skill?

Yes, my wandering Samurai-mystic type has a masterwork flute for just that reason.

It has to provide a flat bonus, not a limited bonus (ie +2 vs Dwarves from Galt) and then its ok.

so let me start with im still new to PFS...i just completed my first game a few days ago, so what do i do with the 2 PP i got and can i sell the items i received for full price or no...and dose that 1 xp i got mean i only received 1 xp for that AP? im a bit confused with how it works..

A lot of people purchase a wand of cure light wounds with their first 2 PP.

Equipment is always (almost) sold at 50% of full cost, but realize, the items listed on a chronicle are not items you've received, but items you can purchase despite Fame limits.

If you haven't already, download the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play and read through it. I'd post a link, but I'm posting from my mobile.

Your best bet it to check out the Guide to PFS. You can download it for free here:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy84k4?Guide-to-Pathfinder-Society-Organized-Pl ay

To answer your questions in short:
- Your PP can be used to buy items or spellcasting services. For example, with 2 PP you can buy any items costing 750 gp or less. Many characters use their first 2 PP on a Wand of Cure Light Wounds; Even if your character can't use it himself, you can have one of your party members use it on you when you're wounded.
- You can sell items back for half price. The exception would be if you're still level 1. You can still rebuild any options on your character before level 2. If you shift something around and find you don't need a piece of equipment any more, you could 'sell' it for full price. This is only before level 2!
- A scenario usually gives 1 XP. For every 3 XP you get, you gain a level.

hay thanks for that so the items that are on my conical i do not own i just have the option to buy them so i cannot sell them?

Correct. Those are items that you gain access to buy for completing that specific scenario.

so even after i complete a different scenario i can still buy them? They don't go away after i complete another one?

That's right. They remain there for the duration of your character's career. Some items can only be purchased from a given chronicle sheet so many times. They usually say "Limit: X" or something when that is the case.