Talanor, the Bright Tower

Game Master Valjoen_KC

Current Date: 8th of Dasyris, 7995 E.C.

Current Battle Map

Arrington's Map

Campaign Spreadsheet

Cast of Characters

Tacal's Stats


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Niyut wrote:
Valjoen_GM wrote:
Niyut wrote:

1 Skill Point in to Linguistics to get Giant. 7 Skill points into Knowledge: Planes.

Are you trying to learn "Giant" as in the language of the mortal giants upon the world? Or the language of the Ice Giants that you encountered coming from the portal to the Plane of Water?
The former. Honestly, I didn't think the last one would be an option until I already knew Aquan.

Hadn't thought about that, but true enough. You'd need to learn giant and aqua, then be able to tackle Ice Giant as it is a derivative of both.


Male Noble Elf Wizard 9/Bard 1 | AC 15/10/15 | HP 71/71 | F +4, R +6, W +9 | CMD 12 | Move 30 ft. | Init +6 | Perc +15 (+4 with familiar)

If you need languages tackled just ask Malz. I get an absurd number of them and I'm keeping linguistics maxed out. I already have aquan and giant as well. I picked up dwarven recently just because we had run into a few dwarves.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11
Valjoen_GM wrote:
Niyut wrote:

It might be wise to determine through a spell craft check whether not commune answers are colored by the agency answering them. Your imp is a devil, though a long chain of command he is in some ways a slave of the god behind the gnolls: Gaeruhn. The evil god might have a vested interest in how and where the enemies of his slaves resist him. Likewise, I wouldn't mention to Foramdar that your imp communed with powerful devils in service of the Flesh Eater and has advice for him. The intel may be good, but the source is suspect.

If commune answers aren't affected by the agency who answers, then I think getting such answers and disguising the source is a good idea.

The imp would be communing with Gaeruhn who created the Plane of Blood where all devils reside. While the answer will be truthful and correct, consider the source. Also, the answer will come to the Imp, who will in turn tell Malthazir, so consider the dynamics of that relationship.

Interesting to know that it would go straight to the top instead of one of the arch-devils (may we never run into them), but I guess if you want to talk to them it would be a more targeted affair.


HP 56/98 Panache 6/7 Stamina 4/10 | AC 28/18/20); 26/18/18 w/composite bow | energy resist: 2 negative, 5 fire | CMD 30 | Fort +6 Ref +13 Will +5 | Per +16, Darkvision 60 ft. | Init +7 (+9 w/swashbuckler initiative);
Class and Skills:
Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) 8/Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 | Acro +20, Bluff +10 Climb +8, Inti +16, Stea +15
Combat:
30 ft. (30 ft.) | Melee +19/+14 (+21/+16 vs. undead) (+2 bane rapier) Ranged +15 (dagger) Ranged +16/+11 (mwk composite shortbow) CMB +12; weapon cord attached: Yes (rapier)
Niyut wrote:
Garidan Vissir wrote:

@Niyut: Just pointing this out, but the party does have someone in it with more than passing familiarity with weapons. While that doesn't cover bows specifically, I think there's enough of an overlap that, with Valjoen's okay, Garidan could see if the physical construction of the bows deviats from the norm.

And Valjoen just said that one of those bows won't be a loss if someone were to disassemble for a close examination.

Of course, it will be a team effort. You know how serious it is that she would want to collaborate with Mal on it given how competitive she is about their respective crafts. And it's not like she is trying to keep it from you. At the moment she is trying to hide the bows in her extradimensional sleeve to prevent them from being burned. I guess Mal didn't pick up on that detail, given his imp's actions, but I doubt the archers will be supportive of his imp trying to paw at them. And why Niyut is creating illusions that will be burned in their stead.

Once we are away from the crazed horse lords we can examine it to our hearts' content using what methodologies we know.

Lol, no, I'm not worried about you--or Niyut--hogging all the discoveries! I'm mentioning it in case you--or, again, Niyut--get too focused on the magical to remember that sometimes a mundane aspect might have potential revelations to offer.


HP 56/98 Panache 6/7 Stamina 4/10 | AC 28/18/20); 26/18/18 w/composite bow | energy resist: 2 negative, 5 fire | CMD 30 | Fort +6 Ref +13 Will +5 | Per +16, Darkvision 60 ft. | Init +7 (+9 w/swashbuckler initiative);
Class and Skills:
Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) 8/Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 | Acro +20, Bluff +10 Climb +8, Inti +16, Stea +15
Combat:
30 ft. (30 ft.) | Melee +19/+14 (+21/+16 vs. undead) (+2 bane rapier) Ranged +15 (dagger) Ranged +16/+11 (mwk composite shortbow) CMB +12; weapon cord attached: Yes (rapier)

Valjoen, going to do a bit of supply gathering, but I have a couple questions before I start.

1) Bountiful Banquet states that while I cannot specify specific dishes for each course, I can specify a general spread. As I'm reading this, it means that, for example, I couldn't have the spell provide a hamburger with exact toppings, or from a particular named brand of burger chain. But I could have it provide a generic hamburger, or the ready ingredients--buns, cooked meat, etc.--to assemble my own.

Is that an acceptable interpretation of how the spell functions?

2) For the purposes of how many I can feed, one Large creature is equivalent to two Medium?

3) I know it'll be up to me make it happen if it can, either by roleplaying or rolling, but I'd like to know before I start looking if I can trade one of my unused etheral essences for another ethereal essence taken from a particular creature. I want an essence from an arcane spellcaster, of at least 6th or 8th level, to be exact.

(I'm trying to lay hands on an essence that'll let me add either Tiny Hut [6th-level caster] or Secure Shelter [8th-level caster] to Garidan's armor so the party can sleep with some security and comfort. On a related note, could essences be spent to either upgrade a shelter spell--tiny hut to secure shelter to magnificent mansion to resplendent mansion--or upgrade the features of a shelter?)


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1) Seems an adequate interpretation to me.

2) I'm assuming your wanting to feed Tacal? 2 persons would be sufficient.

3) Essences aren't common by any sense. You could certainly check with the Hazard if/when you see her next. I would allow you to upgrade a spell, but might be better to use the essence for a new spell, that way you have both. For the spell scribe armor, the EE must come from a caster high enough with that spell on their spell list... so for tiny hut you'd need a 5th level wizard, an 6th level sorcerer or a 7th level bard... or for Secure Shelter, a 7th level wizard or witch, 8th level sorcerer or 9th level bard.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

@Gruskorb: These feats from the new splat book may interest you, particularly the first:

Toppling Pileup (Combat)

When you trip one opponent, its fall might take the legs out
from under another creature.

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip.

Benefit: As a standard action, you can attempt a single
trip combat maneuver check at your full base attack bonus
against a foe within reach. If you succeed, the target is
knocked prone as normal and you can attempt an additional
trip combat maneuver check (using your full base attack
bonus) against a foe that is adjacent to the first target and
also within reach. You can attempt only one additional
combat maneuver per round with this feat.

Tumbling Upset (Combat)

You nimbly dodge beneath your opponent, creating an
opportunity to upend your foe.

Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip,
Acrobatics 7 ranks.

Benefit: When you succeed at an Acrobatics check to
move through an enemy’s space, you can spend a swift
action to attempt a trip combat maneuver check against
the opponent. Even if you fail this check by 10 or more, you
do not fall prone.
Normal: If you fail a trip combat maneuver check by 10 or
more, you are knocked prone.


HP 80/80 | AC 21/16/15 | CMD 21 | Fort +7 Ref +12 Will +6 | Per +12, Dark Vision 60' | Init +6 Aegean Unchained Rogue 7 {Nature Fang 1}

Nothing escapes you, Niyut!

I've some backstory-centric posts and whatnot that will link to essences/Lockjaw that I'll be posting tomorrow. Apologies for the sparseness this week; there were some issues at school.


HP 56/98 Panache 6/7 Stamina 4/10 | AC 28/18/20); 26/18/18 w/composite bow | energy resist: 2 negative, 5 fire | CMD 30 | Fort +6 Ref +13 Will +5 | Per +16, Darkvision 60 ft. | Init +7 (+9 w/swashbuckler initiative);
Class and Skills:
Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) 8/Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 | Acro +20, Bluff +10 Climb +8, Inti +16, Stea +15
Combat:
30 ft. (30 ft.) | Melee +19/+14 (+21/+16 vs. undead) (+2 bane rapier) Ranged +15 (dagger) Ranged +16/+11 (mwk composite shortbow) CMB +12; weapon cord attached: Yes (rapier)

Valjoen, just had a very weird idea cross my mind, and I wonder if you would be willing to consider it. We have that infinite scroll thing, but haven't had any use for it all at this point. While Niyut and Malthazir have the Scribe Scroll feat, we don't really have the resources--in either straight coin or abstract "stuff"--required for even that sort of magic item creation.

What if Garidan could somehow combine or link that infinite scroll to the spells in his armor or his ioun torch (or both), allowing him--or anyone else reading the scroll, for that matter--to cast the spell from it? I'd assume that adding a spell from either item would consume a daily use of the spell in question, as it would for a caster scribing a spell. But what about the actual process of linking itself, how would that have to happen if this were doable?


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While I like the ingenuity, I think linking different Legendary Items gets clunky in the long run. I'm working on some rules for scrolls and potions, and I hope to reveal them soon. This should help resolve the item creation for these two feats. It will be some tedious work, but will avoid the normal GP cost going forward. Additionally, Niyut created and I approved a necromancy spell to create Blood Rubies to replace gold cost requirements for scrolls, potions and rituals. It's kind of an [evil] spell, so one that you can't just whip out on a whim.

The new rules will require gathering components which should become a bit easier in the next "book" of the campaign which starts after the conclusion of the events in Haemil... although the easiest place to collect will be back in Talanor and I don't know if/when you'll choose to go there.

FYI. Later today or this weekend, I hope to get the discussion on imbuing of essences going in this thread. Several of you have already chimed in on your essences, but I want to get them completed.


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On another note, while working on the wiki site, I've noticed a town called Tilmaar on my map near the forests north of Pyrae. For the life of me, I don't remember where I referenced this city. I've searched all the threads here and several wiki pages. I'm sure I added it to the map for a reason or to reference something one of you or I said. Does this ring a bell for anyone?


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

It's only [evil] if it is used on the unwilling. It is perfectly cromulent blood magic otherwise. :-p

Nope on Tilmaar, maybe we walked right by it.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

Garidan, alternatively, if you don't want the infinite scroll we can break it down for parts.


Male Noble Elf Wizard 9/Bard 1 | AC 15/10/15 | HP 71/71 | F +4, R +6, W +9 | CMD 12 | Move 30 ft. | Init +6 | Perc +15 (+4 with familiar)

Hey GM, what do you think would be the costs to get arcane sight (also potentially greater arcane sight) added to Malz's golden scale eye patch, either as a daily use or a permanent effect?

Also true seeing for that matter.


HP 56/98 Panache 6/7 Stamina 4/10 | AC 28/18/20); 26/18/18 w/composite bow | energy resist: 2 negative, 5 fire | CMD 30 | Fort +6 Ref +13 Will +5 | Per +16, Darkvision 60 ft. | Init +7 (+9 w/swashbuckler initiative);
Class and Skills:
Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) 8/Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 | Acro +20, Bluff +10 Climb +8, Inti +16, Stea +15
Combat:
30 ft. (30 ft.) | Melee +19/+14 (+21/+16 vs. undead) (+2 bane rapier) Ranged +15 (dagger) Ranged +16/+11 (mwk composite shortbow) CMB +12; weapon cord attached: Yes (rapier)

Second that nope on Tilmaar, we went from Pyrae to jacked-up, dying forest with no stops in between that I can recall.

And I kind of want to keep that scroll case, as it gives Garidan another potential line for party support via UMD. It can also provide the party's casters with a last-ditch "we f!@~ed unless I cast this, and maybe we still f$~$ed even then" source of magic.

Further, I don't think we'd get back anything that makes the breakdown worthwhile, not really. While Valjoen hasn't stated as much, I'm thinking its power is pretty much on par with 50 +1 projectiles as far as any essence value goes. Sure, it'd be an essence now, but if we could find a way to consistently (and cheaply!) slap on a spell that a number of the party could then make use of--depending on the spell's source--that'd potentially be worth a lot more essences in the long run.

Heck, maybe we can muck around as a party and turn it into a full-blown wonder, feed the thing caster-sourced essences, and have an infinite scroll in actual fact as it displays a single spell every day from the casters whose essences it took in (either just known or actually memorized). Have to make the spells non-copyable to prevent abuse, maybe make the spell random unless a roll of some sort is made to bring up a desired spell, but that could be entertaining too.

(Imagine if get a bit of an intellect going, like Gruskorb's trap, and started competing with Niyut and Malthazir for certain essences :D.)

Finally, going supply gathering once more, while the opportunity is here. Niyut has already made her shopping list ingame, but does anyone else want anything? I'm going to try for more alchemical ingredients at the least, though Garidan is really the only big user of those right now.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

There are good reasons to keep it. I was just offering. :-)

@Mal: On the wiki: you would need 3 Essences to give Arcane Sight/3 per day and 5 to give it True Seeing 2/per day. (Just like imbuing spells in your bad juju rock.) Though you need to wait until 9th level to develop a 4th bond.


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Niyut wrote:

There are good reasons to keep it. I was just offering. :-)

@Mal: On the wiki: you would need 3 Essences to give Arcane Sight/3 per day and 5 to give it True Seeing 2/per day. (Just like imbuing spells in your bad juju rock.) Though you need to wait until 9th level to develop a 4th bond.

She pretty much nailed it.


Male Noble Elf Wizard 9/Bard 1 | AC 15/10/15 | HP 71/71 | F +4, R +6, W +9 | CMD 12 | Move 30 ft. | Init +6 | Perc +15 (+4 with familiar)

Gotcha, thanks Niyut.

For a permanent effect would we be looking to use a permanency spell as per normal?


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Correct.

Also, keep in mind that you can't add spells that you are not of a sufficient level to cast. So, right now you could add arcane sight as you have access to third level spells. But not True Seeing as you don't have access to 6th level spells yet.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

Oh, yes, it's only 5th level for Clerics, so 6 essences.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

"Additionally, magical items will have ethereal essences, hence the reason the item is magical. So, if no one wants the magical boots, a character can always attempt to extract it and use it for another purpose. The chance for an ethereal essence from a creature is 80% plus 1% per HD. Anything under 1 HD is 0%. There can be 1 ethereal essence for every 2 HD of the creature, minimum 1 essence possible. The chance for an ethereal essence from a magic item is 80% plus 1% per CL of that item. There can be 1 ethereal essence for every CL of that item. So, a Fey with 6 HD could give up to a possible 3 ethereal essences, and boots of speed could give up to a possible 5 ethereal essences."

The caster level for the Idol was 6th. From what I understand it should have a chance to produce one Transmutation and 5 Ethereal or 6 Ethereal. Does Niyut know why it didn't? Was it a rule change?


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Niyut wrote:

"Additionally, magical items will have ethereal essences, hence the reason the item is magical. So, if no one wants the magical boots, a character can always attempt to extract it and use it for another purpose. The chance for an ethereal essence from a creature is 80% plus 1% per HD. Anything under 1 HD is 0%. There can be 1 ethereal essence for every 2 HD of the creature, minimum 1 essence possible. The chance for an ethereal essence from a magic item is 80% plus 1% per CL of that item. There can be 1 ethereal essence for every CL of that item. So, a Fey with 6 HD could give up to a possible 3 ethereal essences, and boots of speed could give up to a possible 5 ethereal essences."

The caster level for the Idol was 6th. From what I understand it should have a chance to produce one Transmutation and 5 Ethereal or 6 Ethereal. Does Niyut know why it didn't? Was it a rule change?

Nope. Just stopped typing in the middle of that post and picked it up a couple hours later and never went back to look up the rule. Honestly, I was busy and forgot. LOL. I'll jump in the gameplay thread and roll the dice.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

I was a little surprised that the Talisman didn't give anything, but that's my fault for not asking about its CL. I just assumed that with a held effect and three different meta magic effects it would have an Evocation Essence for Garidan haha.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

So, does anybody want the Transmutation Essence? If not, I guess Niyut can claim it though presently it would be nice to get essences I can use right now. :-p

Gruskorb will get 1 Ethereal Essence to start to finish off that round.

Ethereal Essence 1: 1d5 ⇒ 1

1: Garidan
2: Gruskorb
3: Malthazir
4: Niyut
5: Truk

Ethereal Essence 2: 1d4 ⇒ 1

1: Gruskorb
2: Malthazir
3: Niyut
4: Truk

Ethereal Essence 3: 1d3 ⇒ 2

1: Malthazir
2: Niyut
3: Truk

Ethereal Essence 4: 1d2 ⇒ 1

1: Malthazir
2: Truk

If any of the other winners of the sweepstakes wants the Transmutation Essence, they can claim it instead of their new EE. Otherwise, Niyut will give hers up so that her brother can get her Ethereal Essence and she will claim the Transmutation. Alternatively, it can be claimed by Truk himself.

Long story short: Everybody gets something and Gruskorb gets 2 things. And everybody gets choices.


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Well, I think we have a problem.

For sometime now, I’ve been thinking that the way I was allowing spell to be added to the bonded items was too generous. Now dealing with the current extraction of essences from the equine Idol, it’s become very clear that there is a disparity between extract and creation.

In this case, given the rules, you were able to get five ethereal essences and one arcane essence. So by destroying an item that gave you a 3rd level spells to be cast once per day, you can now add one of those ethereal essences to an item and get three cast of the same spell, plus still have four ethereal essences and the arcane essence left over. Holy crap! I’m in idiot!

Now, because you didn’t receive much treasure from this last battle I’m not going to adjust the number of essences you get from this extraction. However, going forward, I’m going to have to make some changes to that rule. Otherwise you could manufacture these things quite easily.

I think the easiest option, is to adjust how many absences come out of magical items based on the number that it would be required to create them. With the idol, this would mean, at maximum, one ethereal essence.

I would appreciate any of your thoughts.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

Hmmm.

To add that spell to a Wonder would require 3 Ethereal Essences not 1. And creating a curio is still something that we don't yet know how to do (though I'm working on it.)

My suggestion would be to set the ethereal essences not 1 to 1 CL but make it like a creature and 1 to 2 CL. That would make it more balanced I think and more logical given the rest of the system.


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I was referring to you adding an essence to your wand. One EE grants 10 levels worth of a spell. So three cast of a third level spell.


HP 56/98 Panache 6/7 Stamina 4/10 | AC 28/18/20); 26/18/18 w/composite bow | energy resist: 2 negative, 5 fire | CMD 30 | Fort +6 Ref +13 Will +5 | Per +16, Darkvision 60 ft. | Init +7 (+9 w/swashbuckler initiative);
Class and Skills:
Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) 8/Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 | Acro +20, Bluff +10 Climb +8, Inti +16, Stea +15
Combat:
30 ft. (30 ft.) | Melee +19/+14 (+21/+16 vs. undead) (+2 bane rapier) Ranged +15 (dagger) Ranged +16/+11 (mwk composite shortbow) CMB +12; weapon cord attached: Yes (rapier)

I can't really comment on this particular essence issue, since it's not in my "lane," so to speak ;p. But because ethereal essences have a lot more uses than adding spells to items--they're pretty much the bread-and-butter essence for enhancing items and self alike--and ethereal essences aren't sourced from under every rock, items like this one would be a valuable source essences whose containers don't take an inconvenient amount of killing before we collect our plunder.

With that all in mind, I'd say leave the system as is, because you ultimately control what essence-filled items we have the chance to encounter and, via the percentage roll, how many they actually release; CL is only an indicator of how many it could give up, not how many it actually will. And an essence spent to add a spell is an essence not used for something else.

I suppose that if excessive per day casts from bonded item spells are an issue, however, maybe throttle it on that end in some manner?


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

Only of a first level spell.

Originally, To cast a third level spell it would be 3 Essences for 3 casts.

1st level spell 10 Casts for 1 EE

2nd level spell 5 Casts for 2 EE

3rd level spell 3 Casts for 3 EE

4th level spell 2 Casts for 4 EE

5th level spell 2 Casts for 4 EE

6th level spell 1 Casts for 6 EE

7th level spell 1 Casts for 7 EE

8th level spell 1 Casts for 8 EE

9th level spell 1 Casts for 9 EE

You recently changed the language on the wiki, but look at your older notes that you used to have on the game info tab.

Spending 1 Essence to get 1 cast of a ninth level spell would be insane.

From Valjoen 4th of May 2016 Discussion Thread:

"For the purposes of imbuing essences to the wands:

Each essence is 10 levels of spells. Max spell level is equal to the number of essences imbued for this purpose. Must be a high enough caster level to cast the spell or you must use UMD. Lesser Metamagic (affecting 3rd lv spells or lower) is 1x essence for each spell level increase the effect would normally take; i.e. Silent is 1, Quickened is 4. Double the essences for Metamagic (6th lv spells or lower) and triple for Greater Metamagic (9th lv spells or lower)."

Bolded for emphasis.


HP 56/98 Panache 6/7 Stamina 4/10 | AC 28/18/20); 26/18/18 w/composite bow | energy resist: 2 negative, 5 fire | CMD 30 | Fort +6 Ref +13 Will +5 | Per +16, Darkvision 60 ft. | Init +7 (+9 w/swashbuckler initiative);
Class and Skills:
Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) 8/Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 | Acro +20, Bluff +10 Climb +8, Inti +16, Stea +15
Combat:
30 ft. (30 ft.) | Melee +19/+14 (+21/+16 vs. undead) (+2 bane rapier) Ranged +15 (dagger) Ranged +16/+11 (mwk composite shortbow) CMB +12; weapon cord attached: Yes (rapier)

As to the Transmutation essence? Well, depending on what Valjoen lets me do with that, I may be interested in it myself. There's a pair of utility spells from Transmutation school that look rather appealing given Garidan's particular skillset, Alchemical Tinkering (1st) and Full Pouch (3rd). If I could feed the essence to 'Ruza to get a 1/day cast of one of those spells, that'd be dandy.

Alternatively, I have a Tikbalang essence I was saving to give Garidan's spellscribed armor a single use of Fly. If I can combine the two to get Fly with either an additonal use, or some other appropriate enhancement that doesn't increase the spell's caster level--and, consequently, the UMD result needed to activate it--I could make use of it that way.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

I would agree with Garidan insofar as this chapter has been the longest by far and unlike the Necromancy Tower its been light on essences in comparison. Oh, to be back in those halcyon days where I had enough essences to put towards things like skill boosts.

(Not a complaint just a preference not to throttle all EEs since it seems like your forgot your original ruling on wand casts and put in a too powerful one on the wiki.)

I have two major recommendations for Essence rules:

1. Make the potential essence gains for magic items the same rate as those from popping a magic creature like a Piñata.

I recommend this change because I would very much like to be able to get some returns off these bows for a major equipment upgrade, and I don't want our kindly gm thinking: f+%* me, I set the caster level of these bows so high that they we be drowning in essences. However if we could get between 8-10 essences per person from this mess of 24 bows I would call it a resounding success.

2. Instead of making up a new ability each time someone invests essences, give the option to improve an existing ability one time (as opposed to cumulative like Life Essences.) Garidan, for example, would love to use his bone cage and it not be immediately broken and destroyed. He might give up the opportunity to get a new shiny ability to improve an old one. I know Truk would. He has often said he wished he could consolidate some of his options.


HP 56/98 Panache 6/7 Stamina 4/10 | AC 28/18/20); 26/18/18 w/composite bow | energy resist: 2 negative, 5 fire | CMD 30 | Fort +6 Ref +13 Will +5 | Per +16, Darkvision 60 ft. | Init +7 (+9 w/swashbuckler initiative);
Class and Skills:
Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) 8/Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 | Acro +20, Bluff +10 Climb +8, Inti +16, Stea +15
Combat:
30 ft. (30 ft.) | Melee +19/+14 (+21/+16 vs. undead) (+2 bane rapier) Ranged +15 (dagger) Ranged +16/+11 (mwk composite shortbow) CMB +12; weapon cord attached: Yes (rapier)

Oh yes, I would love to buff some of existing stuff! And I was, in fact, going to request that Valjoen swap the impending increase to Garidan's flaming riposte (currently at +2d6 fire damage) for something else, because the increase was verging on excessive even for my taste :D.

And I have floated the idea of requesting such a thing, but was hesitant because of how the rules work with essence limits to item, both in total and by level. What if using an essence to simply enhance an existing thing in some manner counts against that total, and then I have to decide between powerful new addition or minor improvement of existing stuff. My poor brain would lock right up trying to settle that, lol.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

Well, in my recommendation you would be sacrificing a new secondary ability to improve an old secondary ability. This would not effect the essence limits on items.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

You haven't riposted anybody in a while, Garidan. :-p


HP 56/98 Panache 6/7 Stamina 4/10 | AC 28/18/20); 26/18/18 w/composite bow | energy resist: 2 negative, 5 fire | CMD 30 | Fort +6 Ref +13 Will +5 | Per +16, Darkvision 60 ft. | Init +7 (+9 w/swashbuckler initiative);
Class and Skills:
Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) 8/Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 | Acro +20, Bluff +10 Climb +8, Inti +16, Stea +15
Combat:
30 ft. (30 ft.) | Melee +19/+14 (+21/+16 vs. undead) (+2 bane rapier) Ranged +15 (dagger) Ranged +16/+11 (mwk composite shortbow) CMB +12; weapon cord attached: Yes (rapier)

Haven't had the opportunity, since it eats panache for the required parry, and I've had to spend that gutting masses of gnolls, lol.


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OK, one essence per spell level makes a heck of a lot more sense. Not sure how I dropped it on the wiki because that really had me concerned.

Upgrading existing abilities is fine by me. When we get there, feel free to make suggestions.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

I can understand; it would be an insane return! While I have always thought that 1 Essence per spell level to get a single spell known is a little high given some secondary abilities just grant expanded spell access, 1 Essence per spell level with casts being 10/Level is generous.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

Don't forget to revise the Wand thing on the Essence page. :-)


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

"These five Archuses head the branches of conjuration: Creation, Summoning, Healing, Teleportation and Calling."

Does this mean that these conjurers have arcane versions of healing spells? If so, Malthazir should get on that. :-p


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Niyut wrote:
Don't forget to revise the Wand thing on the Essence page. :-)

I’ve started doing just that. But wanted to put some extra thought into the rules. I still may make some minor adjustments. I will certainly post some thoughts and get everyone’s input before making any changes. just want to spend the weekend really playing them through in my mind.


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Niyut wrote:

"These five Archuses head the branches of conjuration: Creation, Summoning, Healing, Teleportation and Calling."

Does this mean that these conjurers have arcane versions of healing spells? If so, Malthazir should get on that. :-p

Yes, the Archus of Healing has some access to healing beyond the typical conjurer. It is possible that Malthazir may have even heard of her. He certainly is well aware of the hazard here


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Niyut,

Can you recap the 2nd distribution of essences for me? I can see the three different rolls. The first was the LE's from the giants. The third was from the Idol. I don't recall all of the sources of the 2nd roll nor do I know who got what essence from what source. Thanks


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

The second was from the cliff giant. When he popped, he dropped some ethereal an arcane essence.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

"Niyut draws the essences from the dead giant. She feels their power as she gathers them in her clutches. 1 Life essence, 6 Ethereal Essences, 1 Enchantment Essence."


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Niyut wrote:

I would agree with Garidan insofar as this chapter has been the longest by far and unlike the Necromancy Tower its been light on essences in comparison. Oh, to be back in those halcyon days where I had enough essences to put towards things like skill boosts.

(Not a complaint just a preference not to throttle all EEs since it seems like your forgot your original ruling on wand casts and put in a too powerful one on the wiki.)

I have two major recommendations for Essence rules:

1. Make the potential essence gains for magic items the same rate as those from popping a magic creature like a Piñata.

I recommend this change because I would very much like to be able to get some returns off these bows for a major equipment upgrade, and I don't want our kindly gm thinking: f!+$ me, I set the caster level of these bows so high that they we be drowning in essences. However if we could get between 8-10 essences per person from this mess of 24 bows I would call it a resounding success.

2. Instead of making up a new ability each time someone invests essences, give the option to improve an existing ability one time (as opposed to cumulative like Life Essences.) Garidan, for example, would love to use his bone cage and it not be immediately broken and destroyed. He might give up the opportunity to get a new shiny ability to improve an old one. I know Truk would. He has often said he wished he could consolidate some of his options.

I think it makes most sense to be equal to the number of essence required to make the item. So, for the Idol to make Beast Shape I... 3 essences. Which equals the number in your option #1. I'll need to do a little more work to ensure the essence count equals the effect. So, in the case of the idol either make it 3 casts/day... or decrease the essence count b/c of the 1/day casting.

In the end, I'll calculate the number of essences to make the item and then set that as the value. I'll start making it a data element on the wiki page that will be viewable to you after identifying the item, of course.


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Here are my thoughts on a few other essence related rules:

1. Extracting essences.

Some of this is reflected in the spells, although with a couple little changes. Other things here are really player knowledge not character knowledge, but I'll reveal them to you as I value your input. Hope you don't mind that I'm using your group as basically "testers" for this system.

Extracting from a Corpse - cast appropriate spell and auto success. No change

Extracting from a Consumable - cast appropriate spell and beat a Spellcraft check that is equal to 15 + CL of the creator. An ethereal essence from a consumable imbued by a caster grants the caster an extra spell slot for that day. The spell must be the same as the spell from that scroll/potion. Failure destroys the consumable. That is, you can’t get an arcane divination essence from a scroll of identify. You may only have one such essence at any given time. No change

Extracting from a Curio - cast appropriate spell and beat a Spellcraft check that is equal to 15 + CL of the creator. If the item is in the possession of an unwilling being, the DC is 30 + CL of the creator. Certain circumstances may prohibit extraction; such as disintegration, massive damage, etc. Failure may result in damage to an area around the caster. No change

Extracting from unbonded Wonder - cast appropriate spell and beat a Spellcraft check that is equal to 15 + highest HD of mortal creature previously bonded. Change to raise the DC to most powerful wielder of the item. Unbonding it from the current mortal will be based on its HD. But this way a powerful item in the hands of a neophyte doesn't instantly become easier to extract the essences. The essences should be based on the HD of the creature that imbued them. I think it's too much record keeping to determine that DC for each different essence, so I'll use the highest one.

Extracting from bonded Wonder - cast appropriate ritual to unbind the wonder and complete extraction as unbounded Wonder. Alternatively, cast appropriate spell and beat a Spellcraft check that is equal to 30 + highest HD of mortal creature ever bonded. Note changes referenced above and disclosing that a ritual exists.

Extracting from unbonded, blessed Relic - cast appropriate ritual to strip the blessing of the spirit and complete extraction as unbounded Wonder or Curio as appropriate. Just disclosing that a ritual exists.

Extracting from mortal bonded, blessed Relic - cast appropriate ritual to strip the blessing of the spirit and complete extraction as bonded Wonder. Note comments above.

Extracting from spirit bonded Relic - cast appropriate ritual to unbind the relic from the spirit and complete extraction as an unbonded Wonder. Alternatively, destroy the spirit and complete extraction as an unbonded Wonder. Just disclosing that a ritual exists.

Extracting from Mortal Being - cast appropriate spell.

2. Arcane/Divine Bonds - Which I think I'm going to generically call them "Casting Bonds"

Spells: 1 ethereal essence per level of the spell to be added; the spell must be on the character's class's spell list and the character must be high enough level to cast spell; grants 10 spell levels of casting per "day", i.e. 10 casts of 1st level spells, 5 casts of 2nd level spells, 3 casts of 3rd level spells; 2 casts of 4th/5th level spells; 1 cast of 6th/7th/8th/9th level spells

Thoughts?.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

That definitely works for wonders and relics, but from what little you have told me curios are made by ritual or more singular events. We would need to keep track of the functional essence count of a curio even if nobody spent an essence in its construction. Likewise, there should probably be a meta rule that if you can make curios by ritual or other ancient process without gathering essences from random dead people (how we make wonders), then you cannot extract the essences of the curios that you create. That way people could not hypothetical turn curio creation into an essence mill.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11

Thoughts on Rules Updates

1. "Spells: 1 ethereal essence per level of the spell to be added; the spell must be on the character's class's spell list and the character must be high enough level to cast spell; grants 10 spell levels of casting per "day", i.e. 10 casts of 1st level spells, 5 casts of 2nd level spells, 3 casts of 3rd level spells; 2 casts of 4th/5th level spells; 1 cast of 6th/7th/8th/9th level spells"

I like this, but may we add the caveat that you can add spells to a casting bond as long as you have high enough character level instead of class level to cast the spell.

This is important to Niyut because I want to use her wand to augment her sorcery by adding more arcane spells to it. For example, I was planning on imbuing her wand with See Invisibility, Burning Arc, etc. The thought being that she can only fully use her sorcery at higher levels of spell through her wand.

I would argue that this would be fine since you can create staves and wands with spells you don't have in base Pathfinder as long as your spell craft is high enough.

If you are not comfortable with making this a general rule, may I spend an Ethereal Essence to imbue my wand with the ability to gain spells based on character level rather than class level as long as I'm of a class that could cast the spells?

2. "Extracting from unbonded Wonder - cast appropriate spell and beat a Spellcraft check that is equal to 15 + highest HD of mortal creature previously bonded. Change to raise the DC to most powerful wielder of the item. Unbonding it from the current mortal will be based on its HD. But this way a powerful item in the hands of a neophyte doesn't instantly become easier to extract the essences. The essences should be based on the HD of the creature that imbued them. I think it's too much record keeping to determine that DC for each different essence, so I'll use the highest one."

Awesome! If I understand this correctly, then I can extract the essences from the gnoll bard's horn? Since he is very much dead.


HP 56/98 Panache 6/7 Stamina 4/10 | AC 28/18/20); 26/18/18 w/composite bow | energy resist: 2 negative, 5 fire | CMD 30 | Fort +6 Ref +13 Will +5 | Per +16, Darkvision 60 ft. | Init +7 (+9 w/swashbuckler initiative);
Class and Skills:
Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) 8/Fighter (Lore Warden) 2 | Acro +20, Bluff +10 Climb +8, Inti +16, Stea +15
Combat:
30 ft. (30 ft.) | Melee +19/+14 (+21/+16 vs. undead) (+2 bane rapier) Ranged +15 (dagger) Ranged +16/+11 (mwk composite shortbow) CMB +12; weapon cord attached: Yes (rapier)
Niyut wrote:
That definitely works for wonders and relics, but from what little you have told me curios are made by ritual or more singular events. We would need to keep track of the functional essence count of a curio even if nobody spent an essence in its construction. Likewise, there should probably be a meta rule that if you can make curios by ritual or other ancient process without gathering essences from random dead people (how we make wonders), then you cannot extract the essences of the curios that you create. That way people could not hypothetical turn curio creation into an essence mill.

Addendum to Niyut's post above, because sure as s~## someone else will think of this loophole if I did :D; not only can the creator not extract essences from something that they make, they cannot receive essences extracted by someone else from something that they made. That'll keep Spellcaster Johnny from making an item, handing it to Spellcaster Bob who then extracts the essences and splits the take with Johnny.


Female Half Orc Oracle (Spirit Guide) 9/Sorcerer (Cross-blooded) 1 l HP: 79/79 l AC: 14 (Current AC: 22)/T: 13/FF: 11 (15) l F: +7, R: +10, W: +11 (+2 v Illusions) l Init: +5 l Per: +21 (+23 dim/dark); Darkvision 90' l Movement: 30 l SR Check: +11
Garidan Vissir wrote:
Niyut wrote:
That definitely works for wonders and relics, but from what little you have told me curios are made by ritual or more singular events. We would need to keep track of the functional essence count of a curio even if nobody spent an essence in its construction. Likewise, there should probably be a meta rule that if you can make curios by ritual or other ancient process without gathering essences from random dead people (how we make wonders), then you cannot extract the essences of the curios that you create. That way people could not hypothetical turn curio creation into an essence mill.
Addendum to Niyut's post above, because sure as s$*& someone else will think of this loophole if I did :D; not only can the creator not extract essences from something that they make, they cannot receive essences extracted by someone else from something that they made. That'll keep Spellcaster Johnny from making an item, handing it to Spellcaster Bob who then extracts the essences and splits the take with Johnny.

Agreed,

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