Yeah - didn't seem broken to me. I'm hoping we do some more roguey type stuff.
Yeah - didn't seem broken to me. I'm hoping we do some more roguey type stuff.
I hope you are referring to sleight of hand and sneak attacking. We plate wearers are not the stealthiest individuals around.
Hey,
Can I get some pics sent my way? I can use your avatars if you want but I rather have something else.
Questions?
Game on!
trying to get the full picture
Shaeda's avatar is perfect for her. It's from a character in S&S.
And it starts...
Turn 000 is up.
Read the OOC.
It's a 'long' turn with three places for you to post but don't think you have to post for all three parts at once. Just start posting and others will roleplay as well.
Questions, comments, and/or suggestions?
Game on!
PS: I'll start taking a closer look at the your PC sheets and let you know if I have any questions.
Going though the stats, I have a couple of comments:
RIDE
You will be riding into the Worldwound so you may want to allocate a rank to this skill.
ENCUMBRANCE
'Play nice' with regards to encumbrance rules. I hate and won't micro-manage this but let's be reasonable. You can split your gear in what you will carry and what will be carried by your mount.
UBER BUILDS
A couple of you are 'uber min-maxed'. I'm no expert at 'min-maxing' but being a GM for a while gives a sense of these things. You picked very specific traits, feats, equipment, etc. to support your 'ubers'. BTW, this is also true to some extent in the Hell's Rebels game but since you started at level 2 with limited equipment, the differences are not as pronounced.
In general, this is OK because I know you are still good roleplayers. From a challenge POV, it's really easy for me to provide challenging encounters: I simply assume that you are 1 or 2 levels higher than your real level.
I do want 'well-rounded' characters who will make for an interesting story, and I think that all of you will bring that to the table so that doesn't worry me. However, I am concerned that the party will be unbalanced (a couple of PCs will outshine the other two), and I don't want that to happen.
How do you propose we fix this?
- ask the 'ubers' to rebuild (ubers may not like this);
- give a level higher to 'non-uber' PCs; or
- other?.
Thoughts?
Not entirely sure who the ubers are, haven't really looked. I'm usually willing to rebuild, at least to an extent, though uberism isn't necessarily a problem as they usually suck at everything but that focus. As long as they're good at only one or two things it's not an issue, when they become a one man party is where trouble begins. Ultimately the only way to determine a solution is for us to look and see who's uber and who's not then meat in the middle somewhere.
Remind me to tell you later about the one man party monk, it was horrifying.
I have a preference for rebuild.
It's usually easier if you know where everyone is in terms of what they can do.
It's also usually less of a problem if everyone has niches, as then when different niches... anyway, you know this.
Riding might be a problem. I've built a lot of my character around being infantry. How much time do you think we'll be riding? Is this an 'every now and then' thing, a 'that's just how you get places' thing, or a 'most combat is mounted combat' thing?
I had been looking at Marching Chant as a way to get from A to B.
Well, without having played them, I would guess that Arodric will be uber good at summoning and Shaeda will be uber good at blocking attacks for everyone.
Don't get me wrong, Mardok will be a kick ass archer and Hedda will be very good bloodrager but those builds were not optimized. An optimized archer doesn't take skill focus (acting) as a feat.
Riding will be mainly used for getting from place to place but some encounters may occur while you are riding. I don't expect there will be a lot of mounted combat but if a couple of vrocks swoop down on you while you are riding, you'll have to deal with it.
If rebuilding isn't an issue for Arodric and Shaeda, then I'm fin with that. Remember that I love roleplaying so if you always wanted to pick some 'non-optimized' feature, this is the game for it.
I will adjust the challenges as necessary to make this a 'challenging game'.
Questions?
To be honest, I thought spending the feats on Bluff and deceptive casting instead of summon focussed feats was helping to smoosh the uberness around.
Without Demonbane, I have trouble seeing how any summoner would be any use. The first creature with a prayer of defeating DR wouldn't crop up until SM III. I thought it was a fix for the Sarkorian Godcallers who couldn't actually do anything against the Worldwound.
There is the Rod and the Idols as equipment. I could redo the equipment list?
I thought you'd be more worried about the Bluff score! The penalties on the cunning caster feat were high enough I bought it up, but it means he's a damn, damn good Face.
Yeah - I read the Worldwound Gambit :)
To be honest, I thought spending the feats on Bluff and deceptive casting instead of summon focussed feats was helping to smoosh the uberness around.
Without Demonbane, I have trouble seeing how any summoner would be any use. The first creature with a prayer of defeating DR wouldn't crop up until SM III. I thought it was a fix for the Sarkorian Godcallers who couldn't actually do anything against the Worldwound.
There is the Rod and the Idols as equipment. I could redo the equipment list?
I thought you'd be more worried about the Bluff score! The penalties on the cunning caster feat were high enough I bought it up, but it means he's a damn, damn good Face.
Yeah - I read the Worldwound Gambit :)
Yes, bluff and deceptive casting do help. And the high bluff check doesn't bother me as much because it's a 'roleplaying skill' and not hard stats. Being a party face is good roleplaying.
Redoing the equipment list would certainly help to take away the uber summoner feel.
Sarkorian god-callers have no issues with the unchained summoner rules because those eidolons gain an alignment subtype so 'good eidolons' have their attacks count as 'good' and thus bypass DR.
I just started reading the Worldwound Gambit and I'm hoping to take somethings away to add to our game.
There's an irony here, Shaeda has absolutely been built to be uber at making other people shine. However, I don't think she, herself, would be particular good at battling the evils we will encounter.
If her keeping other people safe isn't desired, let me know, and I can rebuild her to be something different.
Also, Shaeda can block numerous times per round, but she can also Aid Another to help them to hit, or accomplish other things. She is built to aid. It's a concept I've wanted to try for a while, and this seemed a decent time to try it out, but I can definitely do something else if desired.
There's an irony here, Shaeda has absolutely been built to be uber at making other people shine. However, I don't think she, herself, would be particular good at battling the evils we will encounter.
If her keeping other people safe isn't desired, let me know, and I can rebuild her to be something different.
Yes, I see the irony in it, but it still is something very well thought out and executed so I don't want to penalize you for your concept.
I also know you're good for roleplaying so I'm not worried there either. Shaeda sounds like she will be a lot of fun to play with (no pun intended). :)
However, I do want a more balanced party. It looks like Arodric is going to tone down some of the uber summoner, can you tone down the 'uber blocker/helper'?
If you don't want to rebuild, no worries. I know it's a pain although it's supposed to be pretty easy with 'the software' (I should buy that thing myself. :)). We'll figure out a way to make all the PC 'more or less' equivalent in 'stat power', probably by giving everyone else an extra level or some extra cash to spend.
I know I'm a pain but I'm really looking out for the story/game and hoping to keep every player engaged/involved so just humor me. :)
Thoughts?
Absolutely.
Right now she can give +5 AC to up to 4 party members per round.
That +5 breaks down as:
+2 standard aid another
+2 helpful halfling
+1 benevolent armor
The 4 per round is because of AOOs with her DEX mod of +3.
She can also use the +4 to aid one person per round on their to hit roll.
How would folks like me to nerf that? What seems more reasonable?
Correction: not to 4 party members, it is just 4 times per round, she can help the same ally multiple times.
Correction: not to 4 party members, it is just 4 times per round, she can help the same ally multiple times.
Yeah, it's the multiple times per round that seems excessive.
How about you exchange the bodyguard feat for something else and you replace/remove the benevolent feature of your armor?
That should still allow you to grant a +4 bonus as an aid another action (once per round).
If the sole purpose of the Combat Reflexes feat was to exploit the bodyguard feat, then feel free to exchange that as well.
How does that feel?
Combat Reflexes is actually a prerequisite for Bodyguard, so I'm not sure I would classify that as an "exploit."
Ok, so what niches do we have filled now? I'll do something else.
Well, what I meant was that if you were going to replace Bodyguard, you may also want to replace Combat Reflexes, but that's not necessary.
This is only a 4-man party so there's plenty of roles to be filled and/or duplicated.
Here's what I am envisioning (players please speak up if you feel differently):
Hedda, female human bloodrager will be upfront melee;
Mardok, male human fighter-archer will provide ranged support; and
Arodric, male human cleric (summoner) will provide summoning (variable support as needed) and also be the party's face. he will also work as part-time healer I think.
So you can certainly double up any of those roles (two upfront melee or two ranged combatants). There really isn't a dedicated caster either.
However, I think you can keep your concept of being a 'helper' but you just need to tone it down a bit.
There's no traps/lockpickinbg person (something you are also suffering in Hell's Rebels).
Thoughts?
Errr, Vandomir is the traps person over there. Urban Ranger gets the full depth and breadth of Rogue trap-finding, so I would prefer to not reprise that role.
I'll look at the Cold Iron Warden since others bailed on that idea.
I forgot about Vandomir's lockpicking skills because you didn't say anything about the locked chest you guys found in Hell's Rebels. My bad, sorry. :)
I'm actually glad since I won't have to adjust the game for a lack of rogue. :)
I know you think class/archetype first but think about roles and what you'd like your PC to do. I swear I will adjust the encounters to make this fun for everyone. I've never had a TPK ever (well except at home but my two girls just weren't thinking :))and I plan to keep that record...
BTW, I really like the Worldwound Gambit.
Here's some IC description of Nerosyan when first approached:
NEROSYAN
Vast and stony, Nerosyan heaves into view. Dark clouds shine shafts of hard, late-afternoon light on its bastions and battlements. As always, it percusses: hammer on nail, chisel on stone. Its construction is constant. When there is nothing in need of repair, the Queen's restless workmen add another new defense. New telescopes of glinting brass have appeared on the city's turrets. Soldiers scan the sky for aerial threats. Where before the looking glasses would point only west, to the Worldwound itself, now they are turned in all directions.
Pine scaffolds, their joints bound together with resined rope, scale the fortress walls. Masons beetle across them, mortaring blocks of freshly quarried white granite into place. Pulleyed chains hoist the stones from groaning carts below. Members of martial orders, holding competing pennants aloft, raise pikes and halberds to protect the straining laborers.
The fortress watches over a meeting of rivers: the cold Egelsee, flowing from east to west, and the colder Sellen, running north to south. The Sellen forms the border between Mendev and the demonlands. Many times the chaos-spawn have pushed the border back, seizing its eastern banks, only to be eventually rebuffed by the crusaders. Nerosyan occupies a diamond-shaped oasis of stone and brick between the rivers. White towers, numbering in the dozens, jostle for space along its upper reaches. Green coppery screens angle from the top of each tower, slit to let the snow slide through, and to offer archers unobstructed shots at demons screeching down from above.
Are we all going to have a 30ft speed?
Is the summoning a problem, Fabian? I could go 'straight' cleric.
If rebuilding isn't an issue for Arodric and Shaeda, then I'm fin with that. Remember that I love roleplaying so if you always wanted to pick some 'non-optimized' feature, this is the game for it.
There are a couple of concepts I like that I've never used because I felt they could hold their own - a knife-wielder and a Spellslinger. The Spellslinger especially is an archetype widely ridiculed as badly built. Only the Siege Mage seems to attract more hated.
Incidentally, I'm assuming Siege Mage is banned.
Zahir: if you're doing that, do you want to pick up the Face role? I noticed no-one had it, but it is something Rogues excel at.
Are we all going to have a 30ft speed?
Is the summoning a problem, Fabian? I could go 'straight' cleric.
If rebuilding isn't an issue for Arodric and Shaeda, then I'm fin with that. Remember that I love roleplaying so if you always wanted to pick some 'non-optimized' feature, this is the game for it.There are a couple of concepts I like that I've never used because I felt they could hold their own - a knife-wielder and a Spellslinger. The Spellslinger especially is an archetype widely ridiculed as badly built. Only the Siege Mage seems to attract more hated.
Incidentally, I'm assuming Siege Mage is banned.
Summoning isn't a problem if you remove your Rod of Summoning and your 'summoning idols'. We already nerfed the multiple critters (only one critter at a time).
if you want to rebuild, let me know. I don't know what a siege mage is but I will look it up shortly.@All: So it sounds like we're not quite ready to start roleplaying.
That's fine. No hurry. let's get those PCs ironed out.
Arodric has that covered already!
I think he means that he can rebuild his PC and let you take the 'face' role.
Incidentally, I'm assuming Siege Mage is banned.I don't know what a siege mage is but I will look it up shortly.
Ah, no. I don't think the siege mage is appropriate for this 'highly mobile' campaign we have in mind. :)
However, I'm sure you could probably build an uber siege mage. :)
However, I'm sure you could probably build an uber siege mage. :)
I'm not sure I could. Goodness knows I've tried. Best chance I've ever seen was a naval campaign, where it was only useless 70% of the time.
Ahh, sure I can do that.Arodric has that covered already!I think he means that he can rebuild his PC and let you take the 'face' role.
If you want - don't feel pressured, but I get is a traditional rogue role.
ok, I am confused. Who is building what?
Oh, I'm more than happy to keep the face role!
Sounds like I'm just switching out equipment. Zahir is building a rogue without a face ;P
I need to do a little additional switching to tone out the anti-cavalry stance I'd somehow ended up with in my head.
Can I assume we don't need to pay for horse, saddle, barding etc?
If you do still have reservations about summoning, then I can switch to a more traditional cleric. I am interested in pursuing a stronger summoning focus as we go on. I'm especially interested in Evolved Summon Monster
I do still have a question about what out ground movement is likely to be. Is anyone thinking about being 20ft?
Right! A faceless rogue.
My movement will be 30'.
Will it still be a reskinned Shaeda or someone else?
@All: assume horse/saddle/etc. is not part of your wealth (you don't pay for it).
Arodric with a revised equipment list (as noted above) should be OK.
Other questions?
Game on!
It will be someone entirely different.
So who's gonna boost the morale of the troops? :)
It will be someone entirely different.So who's gonna boost the morale of the troops? :)That's also squarely in the job list for a Bard.
Should I be making a Bard instead?
Well see, I would think that that type of personality (boosting the troop's morale) could be handled by just about any class.
However, feel free to make a bard and/or rogue, whatever you are more enthusiastic about.
Game on!
Hedda should be moving at 30ft
However, feel free to make a bard and/or rogue, whatever you are more enthusiastic about.Haha, I tried that already! So now I'm just trying to do what's needed.
Seriously, then keep Shaeda but tone her down as suggested/discussed on post 118.
Is that doable?
I'll use her for something else.
Well, I don't want to rush you (or harakani on his rebuild) but when do you think you'll be ready? Don't forget about the cool, interesting, and good story! :)
Concentrate on the fluff and we'll work out the stats later but no 'uber builds'. :)