tumbler |
I haven't read Dresden. Would this make things too hard to follow?tumbler wrote:Philo, when you say elementals, you're talking Elaine Calloway?I don't know her work. I was sort of leaving it nebulous, as he's only picked up bits and pieces and it lets you fill in what you need for the story. If you prefer I can come up with more on them.
Not having read Dresden shouldn't cause any problems. Jim Butcher has an interesting take on lots of fantasy tropes, but I wouldn't say any of them are mindshatteringly weird or incomprehensible.
Surprised it wasn't Calloway. She has an urban fantasy series using the same words. Strange coincidences :)
Rigor Rictus |
So many ideas... Maybe tumbler can let me know what sounds the most appealing for his game.
First Idea: A Warden. I love Carlos Ramirez and think it would be fun to play as a representative of the wardens, stationed in, or responsible for, whatever city we end up based in. He'd have Dresdenverse style magic, a handgun, and a sweet sword made by Anastasia Luccio (prior to Dead Beat, obviously). He'd likely be one of the many relatively young wardens drafted during the war with the red court, and by necessity of the timeline, recruited a bit before Dresden, so that he can get a sword while Luccio was still capable of making them.
Second Idea: A shapeshifter similar to Goodman Grey. A long-lived, but probably mortal offspring of the immortal Naagloshii, or another shape shifting creature. Powers would be basically just the Alternate Form power, with a variety of animal and/or animalistic forms.
I have others, but I see tumbler is online and posting, so I'm going to post to see what he thinks of these options...
tumbler |
Boston might be a good choice. Lots of good history, close to mountains/forest. Close to Maine, which is full of wilderness, plus Vermont/New Hampshire. I am pretty familiar with Boston and Maine.
Definitely want to take a trip to Vegas though.
Clarifications and expansion:
Definitely M&M 2e.
Government and the supernatural:
Hellboy stories feature the Bureau for Paranormal Research and Defense, which is an independent internationally funded organization that investigates and combats supernatural threats using both highly trained agents and what they call "advanced skills agents."
Monster Hunter International features a government agency called the Monster Control Bureau. These are Men in Black style agents who fight supernatural threats and also intimidate or pay off witnesses not to reveal any knowledge of the supernatural.
MHI also has private bounty hunting companies who are aware of the supernatural but keep it from the public (one of the most successful being Monster Hunters International, surprise).
There is also a military/intelligence organization called Special Task Force Unicorn (STFU, that's right). They use what the BPRD would call "advanced skills agents."
My inclination would be to keep these organizations, because I would love to see PC's be able to play them against each other.
Rigor Rictus |
Gotcha, Shapeshifter = pain the GM backside... understandable. And could tread on the toes of the more traditional werewolf type, of which I think at least one was already pitched.
So, if a warden were a viable idea, what would these paranormally oriented government bodies think of the Wardens of the White Council? Foreign interlopers operating the US without permission (effectively foreign operators/intelligence agents - though from a 'friendly' nation - making conflicts with local government agencies more like diplomatic incidents than criminal activities); a condoned, though only reluctantly assisted international policing body, sort of like Interpol, but for magic (no doubt leading to all sorts of standard jurisdictional penis-measuring contests - I think the jurisdiction of the White Council would theoretically only extend to mortal practitioners of magic, and not any other supernatural areas, though they might be called on to assist as "advanced skills agents" with other concerns); a totally unknown force, they having kept a low enough profile to have as of yet attracted the notice of the powers that be (seems unlikely to me, given how well the existence of the Wardens is known among the fringe magical community (like the para-net), even if the specifics are still extremely vague); or in another fashion you devise?
One option that occurs to me is sort of like being "on-loan" to a US based agency, through some sort of partnership. Here in Canada, our Federal police force is the RCMP, who generally seem to be regarded internationally as one of the best trained street-level police forces in the world. As a result, these kinds of partnerships are pretty common for them, where a member of a foreign police agency will come to Canada to go through RCMP training, and serve as a cop here for a time to learn the ropes, and then return home to spread what he's learned; and cases were our officers serve in other countries with their police forces to teach what they know there. Both are relatively common for the RCMP, and I think they have even done this with US based police agencies (though I have no idea which ones).
I could see a situation where a Warden of the White Council, who also happens to be a natural born US citizen, goes through Quantico (or whichever training center is appropriate), graduates (in order to get permission to operate under the umbrella of the BPRD (or MHI) with the appropriate training and qualifications, for the purpose of local magical law enforcement. He'd effectively be BPRD, with the appropriate ID and domestic authorities, but rather than being one of their own operators, he'd still technically be an officer of the White Council, on loan, and only able to continue acting under BPRD authority as long as he maintained his status with both organizations, and so long as political relations between the two remained friendly. In any case of conflict of interest, it would be understood by all parties that he would be acting on behalf of, and for the best interest of, the White Council. - Just an idea, not an essential one by any means, but one possible way of playing out a Warden operating in a world were the Government is not ignorant to the supernatural, as they are portrayed in the Dresden novels.
-------------------------------------------------
As for the number of Governing Agencies you are including, I think the idea of keeping them all is a great one, as it fits into the typical portrayal of the general US law enforcement morass where the DEA, ATF, Secret Service, FBI, NSA, and more, can all have legitimate interest in a particular issue, have agents involved, but have not informed any of the other agencies because of concerns over internal security, and therefore constantly running into situations where they have conflicting interests, or might even end up with undercover agents, both thinking they're dealing with true bad-guys, both trying to sting the other. The lack of clear communication, plus the number of competing, overlapping, and convolutingly related agencies seems very American indeed (at least, as TV and movies unerringly accurate portrayals would lead me to believe ).
Rynjin |
I think I'ma go with the Knight Aspirant idea.
Is there any justification anyone can think of for him having some more overt powers (rather than just high skills and good combat training)? I suppose I could combine the "Half-Blood/Demigod" idea and this, though reconciling Olympian heritage with a strong Christian faith would be...interesting.
Unless he was more like Dmitri (I THINK that's the Russian Knight's name? He hasn't shown up in a while) where he just has a strong faith in the inherent goodness of man or something and that's enough.
I'm not familiar enough (well, AT ALL) with the other settings provided to figure out what all my options are as far as all that. Maybe he's a nephilim?
I'm looking mostly at enhanced abilities (slight super strength, slight super speed, slight invulnerability) and enhanced senses (accurate senses, darkvision, infra/ultravision, ability to "smell evil magic" etc.) if that helps narrow things down.
Mimesyne |
So before I lose the idea (because sleep eats ideas), I just wanted to throw out the concept I'm currently working on.
I'm thinking of some sort of Half-Fey (maybe full Fey, depends on how the world is going to be pieced together I suppose!) girl who works as a graphic designer for boring businesses and picks up hours bartending in the evenings just to make ends meet (that art degree is not going to pay for itself, after all).
As far as mechanics and crunch, I'm actually reading the rulebook now! It's not a system I've used before but hey, why not expand my tabletop repertoire? My initial idea was to make her somewhere between a gadget user type and a magic type with a focus on things that suit Fey such as illusions, plant control, maybe shapeshifting of some sort, etc.
It's all in a very early planning phase as I keep reading the rulebook, but I just wanted to throw my idea out there in case anything is just wildly off the mark in terms of fitting with the campaign!
Odd John |
As a location, what about Denver?
Not that I've ever been there, but its wiki article say it was founded during the gold rush (abandoned mines for underground), is the 2nd largest city in the southwest, has had a nuclear waste spill, once turned down being the host city to the Olympics, has some native American /western history, is only a dozen miles from the foothills of the Rocky Mountains, and is the 'Mile High City' (bringing that bit about high places being mystical).
There's a Western/fantasy series about a town who attracts supernatural evil and has citizens with odd (mostly supernatural) backgrounds who deal with it. (town possibly called Golgotha??, can't remember the author)
You could pick a smaller local than a city and have the weirdness come to us, the weird residents of an odd town.
So the residents are what makes an otherwise ordinary place a hot bed of weirdness, sort of like the towns down in Florida where the circuses/carnivals wintered.
Cornielius |
Deko, I looked at your character as you asked.
No glaring errors by rules, but there's a couple of things you might want to consider.
PL 7 has a maximum rating of 7 for attack bonus and for power rank, but, with GM approvals, allows trade offs.
That is the absolute total of the two numbers should not exceed 14, but you can have one be +8 and the other be +6, or other such variations.
You have a ranged attack of +6 with your shotgun doing 5 or 6 damage, which means you could increase your attack rating with your signature weapon by +2.
You also have a melee attack bonus of +3, which is low.
There is a feat which gives a +2 attack per rank to a specific weapon if you wanted a back up like using your shotgun as a club or using brass knuckles or a sap.
The PL maximum for Fort, Ref, and Will is 12, not 7 like Toughness.
( a factor I forgot when doing my build and plan to change).
Saves for Toughness are 15 + power rank of attacks, but failing them whittle you down based on how badly you fail the roll.
Save for powers using fort/ref/will are 10 + power rank, but failing can have a much more severe result.
A question, what does suppressor mean under the shotgun entry under devices on your sheet?
Rigor Rictus |
One presumes a suppressor listed next to a firearm indicates a Sound Suppressor (a.k.a. "Silencer"). They do exist for shotguns, oddly enough, but they make the weapon really long, and really only reduce the sound from around deafening, to merely uncomfortably loud.
Rigor Rictus |
Cool! Illegal in Canada, so youtube is the closest I get. Interesting difference, is that from what I understand that in many parts of Europe, it's illegal (or at least considered very rude) to not have a sound suppressor on your firearm, given noise pollution, scaring game animals, and exposing others to potentially damaging volumes. Interesting contrast.
I would imagine that there might be differences in the sound based on the shotgun gauge, the size of shot used, the size of the shells (2.75" vs 3", etc), or slugs.
Philo Pharynx |
Philo Pharynx wrote:So here's Wisp.
Wisp looks good. How would you feel if the elementals in question are Jinn. Jinn are made from living fire in the same way that humans were made from clay. The Jinn are a kind of fey, but not in the pixies and leprechauns sense.
That works for me. Never underestimate the diversity of the fey.
Philo Pharynx wrote:
I haven't read Dresden. Would this make things too hard to follow?tumbler wrote:Philo, when you say elementals, you're talking Elaine Calloway?I don't know her work. I was sort of leaving it nebulous, as he's only picked up bits and pieces and it lets you fill in what you need for the story. If you prefer I can come up with more on them.
Not having read Dresden shouldn't cause any problems. Jim Butcher has an interesting take on lots of fantasy tropes, but I wouldn't say any of them are mindshatteringly weird or incomprehensible.
Surprised it wasn't Calloway. She has an urban fantasy series using the same words. Strange coincidences :)
I took a little inspiration from a little-known series by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens. the Chronicles of Galen Sword In this world each of the supernaturals are their own clan. There's a lot of unseen politics between them. It's also an odd series in that the first two books came out way back in the 80's and then they had to wait for the rights to revert before they could publish the already-written third book.
drbuzzard |
Cool! Illegal in Canada, so youtube is the closest I get. Interesting difference, is that from what I understand that in many parts of Europe, it's illegal (or at least considered very rude) to not have a sound suppressor on your firearm, given noise pollution, scaring game animals, and exposing others to potentially damaging volumes. Interesting contrast.
From what I understand, the silencer inclusion in the NFA law had a lot to do with concerns about poaching because it was the depression and they didn't want to make poaching too easy since there were lots of hungry people. Honestly the silencer section should be repealed for the sake of reducing noise pollution and hearing damage.
I would imagine that there might be differences in the sound based on the shotgun gauge, the size of shot used, the size of the shells (2.75" vs 3", etc), or slugs.
No doubt. I'm not really sure what loads I was shooting. It was at an event where SilencerCo was running a shooting line and they just handed you the weapon and you got to fire about 5 rounds. The guns running the line weren't even wearing hearing protection (I was since there were other areas with guns lacking silencers that I visited).
DekoTheBarbarian |
Yeah, the Suppressor is the silencer for my shotgun. He probably won't use it all the time, as yeah, it does make the shotgun a lot longer, but I think it'd be good to have.
Thanks for the info, Cornielius! I'll take a look at my character sheet and modify things a little for better saves. Will probably lower a couple of my attributes since I am going for a pure human (which seems to be in the minority here!). As for a melee weapon, I plan on staying out of that as much as possible, but I'll look into getting something to use and boost the attack stat a little.
Odd John |
Odd John's profile has updated character info and a short description.
I never knew about sound suppressors for shotguns, though I admit my knowledge of firearms comes from role playing games and hanging out with rednecks.
The Golgotha books I mentioned are Six-gun Tarot and Shotgun Arcana by R. S. Belcher. He also has a new book listed as 'hard boiled urban fantasy'.
E-Terah Deepheavy |
Ooh. Friggin interest. Wanna be a dwarf.She's A modern day farmer along with her father working as a night shift manager and keeps odd hours that unfortunately makes her aware things go bump at night and tries to power through it.Encountering the odd folks in the wee hours of the night and dealing with the suspiciously not human people who stop for fast food takes some grit.
Rigor Rictus |
Working on the mechanics of my White Council Warden. Seeing some interestingly challenging areas to work out...
Running Water: In the Dresdenverse, running water grounds out magic. This can probably be explained with a simple Powerloss Drawback in the sense of being unable to cast while in contact with running water, but I'm not sure how the rest of this element would work out. For instance, running water over an active spell can ground it out in the books as well... Likewise, casting near a lot of water, such as on a boat, or in a heavy fog, tends to be more difficult in the books (kind of like requiring extra effort in M&M terms). How does that translate into M&M rules? That is a very situational issue to count as a Limited flaw, and nor is it complete power loss...
Wizards and Technology: In the books, Wizards have a bad relationship with modern technology, and it tends to short out and/or fail a lot around them. More powerful wizards suffer this problem to a greater extent. This reaction increases whenever magic is actively used; even if your cell phone hadn't shorted out over the course of a car ride together, chances are that if I start working heavy mojo, your Iphone will be a brick afterwards, whether you were directly hit by some of my juice or not. Again, how to make this work in M&M. It's great flavour, and I don't want to leave it out. The most obvious method I can see is giving the Magic power the Side-Effect flaw, which is expressed as a Nullify: Technology area effect whenever magic is used. Thoughts?
Third Eye: Wizards in this setting have the ability to open themselves up to seeing the true nature of things. You see through illusions, concealment, disguises, etc., but you also see the true nature of people. Heroes will look like glowing noble warriors, and villains like vile creatures, regardless of what they might really look like in the real world. I think the sight can be represented easily enough through a combination of Super Senses, such as True Sight, Aura Seeing, and Detect Weakness. The question has to do with the consequences of use. In the books, the power comes with the stipulation that you will always remember, in perfect absolute detail, everything you see with your sight, no matter how horrible, and that the memory will never fade. It's a useful power, but basically an open invitation to PTSD if you see the wrong thing (particularly the true nature of a supernatural evil entity). How would one represent this kind of caveat mechanically?
I'm open to suggestions from all parties on potential ways to incorporate these story elements into the mechanics. If you have an idea, let me hear it, please.
tumbler |
I am in eastern time zone.
If you want technology jinxing to be always accidental, it could be handled as a complication. Water and sight would work as complications, too.
I think a limitation for your magic like "follows Dresden rules" might be valid. Running water, technology, needing circles, doesn't extend past sunrise, etc.
Questions are no problem, and might as well keep them here so everyone can see them.
Rigor Rictus |
Running Water: Sounds like a Complication to me, to be meted out at GM discretion.
That's quite brilliant, actually. It is too complicated and nebulous to be handled mechanically, at least easily, but a complication makes it pretty simple to administer, and awards a Hero point when it comes up. Works great! Probably the best solution for the Third Eye question too. Trying to find a mechanical way to represent having to make a will save when looking at a supernatural evil, and then being stunned or otherwise hampered for a period of time, until he/she can get over it... maybe something could be worked out for this, but a Complication would be much simpler.
If you want technology jinxing to be always accidental, it could be handled as a complication.
Water and sight would work as complications, too.
I think a limitation for your magic like "follows Dresden rules" might be valid. Running water, technology, needing circles, doesn't extend past sunrise, etc.
Again, simple, elegant. However, it would prescribe using the same as Complications, as that would be double-dipping the same traits twice. That would be a tough decision, as Complications are sweet.
Rigor Rictus wrote:The most obvious method I can see is giving the Magic power the Side-Effect flaw, which is expressed as a Nullify: Technology area effect whenever magic is used. Thoughts?If you do it as an area nullify, that's not a side effect - that's a linked power.
I'd disagree, as the technology is an unintentional side-effect that most of the time hampers the Wizards as opposed to helping them. Harry occasionally uses it to his advantage, but pretty much every time he does, it is by doubling down and casting an intentional technology hex ("Hexus!") (I'll probably have a spell/alternate ability for this specific purpose when he wants to use it intentionally). Presuming that we used mechanical mechanism to illustrate this feature as opposed to a Complication as mentioned above, then when translating this into MM2e terms, the Side-Effect flaw, with the always occurs feature makes the most sense. While it starts out saying the side effect only affects you, it goes on to say an area affect can be approved by the GM, in cases where it is appropriate, of which this seems to be a perfect example. While it chiefly means that the wizard himself/herself can't really own or use technology, chances are that if their teammates insist on it, it is likely to be problematic.
Rigor Rictus |
Starting by character profile here: Lakshmi Kishan, Warden of the White Council
Work in progress obviously.
LAB Rat |
In regard to the technology issue, bear in mind that Dresden also tends to be very liberal and reckless with his use of magic. There are some other practitioners who I won't name or elaborate on because spoilers who have a tigher leash on their abilities. They are able to use technology and not have it blow up in their face just by touching it. So, that's another thing to consider. It might be something as simple as requiring a Will save or a Concentration check whenever you use tech of some level of complexity. That said, if we take the running water/sunrise complication, how many power points would that be giving us back?
Rigor Rictus |
Regardless, if there are going to be more than one White Council style wizards in the group (which I would be totally up for), we should definitely all do it the same way to be consistent.
If there are potentially going to be multiple wizards, the simplest solution is probably for us all to the "Limitation" option tumbler suggested. A limitation is a flaw that reduces the cost of a power by 1 for every rank purchased. As Magic usually costs 2 points per rank, a version with the Dresdenverse limitations would cost 1 pt per rank. Keep in mind that while how many ranks of the Magic power you have is not limited, what you can do with those ranks is. For for instance, a Blast or Damage power still has to fit into the Power Level restrictions of the game (PL 7: DC to resist and bonus to hit with the power cannot exceed a total of 14).
tumbler |
What I definitely want to avoid is a situation where other party members are frequently screwed because of wizards. If someone wants to play a "normal" character who uses tech, I want that to be a viable option.
I would agree that wizards should be consistent, but there is some room for variability.
Archlich, I'll throw a draft up soon. Others can chime in and make it better.
Limitations make buying a power cheaper.
Complications come up whenever the GM wants and grant a Hero Point whenever they come up.
Rigor Rictus |
What I definitely want to avoid is a situation where other party members are frequently screwed because of wizards. If someone wants to play a "normal" character who uses tech, I want that to be a viable option.
In regards to technology, I think there is a fairly easy solution that would allow party members to keep their tech; it would probably not be complicated for a character to come up with a way to Magically Insulate their devices from the rampant magical energy flowing about, the same way circuits can be buffered from electrical surges, or hardened against EMP's. Butters does this quite a few times, where he simply draws a circle around himself before he uses his tech, as Harry mentioned that it would insulate him and his gear from the influence. I'm sure any tech savvy character working in a magic heavy environment would quickly learn how to incorporate such circles into their devices themselves! Circles in Dresden didn't technically have to be circular, just be a closed figure with one outside boundary. So, a techie could draw a circle around the edge of his cell phone (or gizmo), or inlay it into the plastic, and then insulate it by closing the circle. Whether this would require a feature (1 pp) expenditure on the device, or just be common knowledge in our groups, or whatever would be GM's call.
Anyway, here is a proposal (open for discussion/modification) of how White Council magic might work:
Limitation: Dresdenverse rules of Magic
Technnology: Use of magic has a tenancy to short out or cause modern technological items to fail in the immediate area. The newer the technology, the more susceptible in is to failure. Technological items within the area of influence would presumably get a save of some sort, with a +1 for every decade prior to the current day from which the technology originates (so a modern reproduction of an old-west firearm would still be pretty much immune, given that the technology it uses hasn't changed in such a long time).
Running Water: Running water, belonging to a fresh flow (including rain), but not still or otherwise stagnant, will short out or ground magic. An effect touched by water suffers a Nullify Magic affect of an appropriate strength determined by the GM. Likewise, a wizard in physical contact with running water suffers a similar Nullify effect on any power he/she might be attempting to use. Being near large bodies of such water (though not necessarily in direct contact with liquid water, such as fog, misting rain, or being on a boat on a large body of water) necessitates a similar save vs. Nullify, failure indicating your Magic power is reduced to half ranks, unless Extra Effort is expended.
Sunrise: Dawn is a mark of the renewal cycle, and tends to wash away magical effects that have not been deliberately bolstered to resist the effects of sunrise. Any magical effects active at sunrise suffer a Nullify effect of an appropriate fixed rank (Say 5 - it should be a fixed number as Dresden mentioned many times that dawn tends to wash away minor magics without contest, while heftier magics have a much better chance of surviving, at least for a couple of days). Note that the effect does not need to be struck by daylight or be direct line of sight to the sunrise; the effect occurs at the moment of sunrise in your location, regardless of your position relative to the sun and sky.
DekoTheBarbarian |
As one of the hopefully eagerly awaiting entry into this game who is planning on using tech, it would kinda suck if they all shorted out everytime a mage on my team used his powers. That said, if there was a way to counteract the effects, like investing in EMP-shielding as seen in various stories/fanfics, that would be helpful.
EDIT: Got ninja'd by Rictor. I agree with his proposal, as that does sound like a good way to express mechanically what happens in the Dresdenverse with their magic. Granted, I've only gotten to book 12, I think, so it might have changed, but it fits with what I remember.
Also, Butters rocks. Polka will never die!
LAB Rat |
Ah, right you are. Apparently I'm getting my flaws, complications, and limitations mixed up. :x That said, I like Rigor's proposal for how it would work. Seems simple enough that it should be easy to rule on while still being fun and thematic. Getting ready to throw together an alias here shortly so that I can get feedback on the character and make sure I did it all right. Just wanted to chime in my agreement.
tumbler |
So far we have these characters submitted, some in draft form:
Odd John (Cornielius) [Changeling Rumpelstiltskin]
Detective Jackson (Deko the Barbarian) [Human Detective toting shotgun]
Hans Ritter (drbuzzard) [Human Mercenary Monster Hunter]
Wisp (philo pharynx) [Elemental prince]
Lakshmi Kishan (Rigor Rictus) [Warden of the White Council]
I hope to be done with recruitement on Thursday, have two days to iron out any wrinkles, and start up on Sunday.