Monsters and Madmen: Necromantics and Monstrous MadMen

Game Master Remnant

Heh, ever since seeing the template was released ive dug the siabrae. I was prepared to play tbis campaign by myself before letting the chance of actually getting to play one of these critters pass me by. Love the drider, think you and I will have wonderful talks at one point or another.

Heh, hi back, and it was to the veterans in general.

I'll try and update my status bar soon so you guys don't get the impression Illia- is terribly strong. :P

@Sanriel - Yes, as a wandering abomination to nature I had kindof wondered what Sanriel would think of her. Especially since she likes to take a proactive role in creating more happy little freaks. Then again, Sanriel is a 'vermin friend'. And he doesn't seem to mind spiders :)

I look forward to our upcoming debates on the nature of nature, and other philosophical topics!

@Illia- - I am honoured that you would consider me a veteran, since I have a five month gap in my resume : )

Also, is the "-" part of Illia's name or not? Does it represent that her name is actually much longer but she never says the entire thing ?

And thanks for reminding me about the status-bar thingy!

It comes from the fact that giving out your true name is a very bad idea for a devil, and this line of dialogue. "Oh? My name is Illia-ack, wait, um.. Uh, I'll just stop there."

Think its a partial true name.
And yes between the influx of outsiders and abominations I get the feeling sanriel's paitence will be pushed. A dangerous thing for one with the paitence of trees.

Hrmm... reminds me that I should probably stop slacking and actually finish sanriels profile.

Mah... so Illia doesn't know this but teleporting into Sanriel's midst is quite possibly the worst method to introduce yourself. Being a druid who fought demons as a passionate life long job would result in some interesting events were you to just pop in with a demons favored method of travel.

Not that Sanriel could be able to actually harm you just that he'd quite likely try.

Sanriel is all about the greater good, so if he is made to understand that an outsider or even a demon is to be his ally by his employers say so then he will relent but when presented with an outsider with little to hold him from eliminating it he will do so.

@Death keeper

I don't really think that this game could been seen to conform to normal party expectations. Anaxian is obviously the mage, Illia is the tank and Delyliath is quite obviously the face. Meredian fills the divine roll along with being arcane. Disqretar looked to be scouting with his wind form.
I'd also likely be support/scouting accounting Sanriels ability to move nigh undetected to all but the most perceptive of monsters. I know full well that in a straight up fight pretty much everybody else in the group could take Sanriel apart.
The 'Skill' role is shared by the multiple players with either stupendously high intelligence stats or Outsider hit dice which grant a very nice spread for skills.

I mean I suppose we don't have a devoted support character or healer but between the amount of magical support spells and supernaturally high skill checks the party has between them combat will likely be rare.

So I'd say just play what you feel is cool, I think the only thing we might be lacking is a character with ranks in disable device. Sanriel is many things but a locksmith he is not.
*looks at monkey companion*
Hrmm... I see a potential leadership target.

Anyway, I really can't see a particular role we are currently lacking.

As I comment on this there are 31 new posts. Wow

We can make the Skeletal Monkey the leader if you want. I have no issue with that.

More posts to respond to

Illia- is afraid of many, many things. Either that, or she's been playing a long game to make people underestimate her across more than one thread. Also, Devil.

Here was her first post on the previous thread.

Illia- did look at the succubus warily once or twice. But, really, it was hard to tell who she was most wary of. Given that she currently backed into a corner. On the ceiling. Cowering behind her shield.

This group of people was SCARY!

Illia- took a deep breath to calm herself before. I am better than this, the Crimson Stranger had taught me to be a warlord! Epic and stuff! Go be inspiring!

She peeked up out over her shield. "I... Could.. Um.. Devil Contract him? That's a thing I do, I think. If he's.. You know.. Into that.. Is he delving into evil stuff? Or like, is he a good guy meddling with the evil stuff. I'd be.. Um. Against that?"

Illia smiled nervously, sinking back below her shield, Uh.. Nailed it?

This is a game about networking and doing favors for other people to get something that you are really wanting to have. Some goal, some item, some connection with another individual. This game is about doing things for others in return for something else.

So if you wish to hang out, go right ahead. There are plenty of networking connections that are waiting to be made with this patron.

@Illia- - I see. Now that you mention it, it seems quite logical. Cool :)

@Sanriel - It will be interesting to see whom manages to trample poor Sanriel's values the most. I pity that one. And don't forget all the friendly undead :)

Speaking of ...

@Anaxian - As a proactive creature, I am now about to inform you that my familiar is a Shadow Drake. While I am aware of the nature of your lichdom (OOC), I would ask you to refrain from turning him into another suit by engineering his downfall. As a witch, his existence is precious to me. His corpse wouldn't be much of an upgrade anyhow! Cheers : )

*Glares at himself* "Short introduction"? *Grumble*

*Ahem*

Can you spell arachnophobia?

My character, Jhaelwyn can. She spend plenty of years in school learning to spell among many things. And as a drider - she can give you the word both in a sentence and with a practical demonstration!

The Drider dismembered all of Bobs friends. He is skitterish around spiders now - one could say he suffered from a bad case of arachnophobia!

(Sorry Illia)

Anyway - Jhaelwyn. She is a drider witch, which lets her cast spells. Coincidentally some of those spells also creates spiders. However, her true pride and joy is not the school of conjuration, but Transmutation! Before her life as an outcast drider working for scraps and the chance to take something appart, she was an accomplished fleshwrapper. Sadly, an infected discussion ending in her current shape and an impromptu puppet show forced her to reconsider her occupation and relocating far far far away from home. Where she currently finds herself enticed by the offers of an linnen clad lady.

Feel free to shoot me any thoughts or questions you have about anything and I shall do my best to answer. Jhaelwyns stats and more elaborate backstory can be found under this alias. She is currently lacking in gear (she has no clothes nor food - poor spider-woman abomination!) and her familiar is also in dire need of a statblock - otherwise things should be close to finished.

Thank you for your time! //Lessah & Jhaelwyn

This is such a cool character idea. I am a fan of Hags and Witches and the like so this idea just appealed to me. So here I sit reading the discussion posts, getting caught up, editing a horror oriented free gaming emagazine. Last night had some good ideas while watching both The Bourne Ultimatum and Iron Man 2 (switching between the channels).

Yes I work 4 ten hour days. Sun, Mon, Tue, Thur. So Wed and Fri are my main posting days along with Sat Nights. When work gets slow I will post via my phone at times (usually shorter ones to be honest).

Watching an Australian movie called Mental on Netflix while editing and also playing Marvel Avengers Alliance on FB. I have my Ultimate Equipment and B2 and B3 next to me with the NPC Codex to use as reference for one of the Drow in the caravan. However there will be something coming between you all before then.

Sorry to slow the progress but im fairly sure the angel popping into the room ranks higher on sanriels priorities than a room filled with corpses useful as that can be.

Amusingly enough sanriel is suprisingly passive about the whole undead thing.
Sanriel is a samsaran after all and has plundered the cleric spell list for fun spells to have. Animate dead being one of them.

@Sanriel - I see. Now that you mentioned it, Sanriel was quite civil around Viktor too!

@Posting days - I have no particular day that I post on. As a university student I don't have a rigid week to week scheduled. Particularly this term, where all my courses feature lots of "work on your own time" and computer sessions - both which lets me hammer F5 a few times.

However, I should note that I do live in Europe, GMT +1, which means I am a bit misaligned to most of you (I assume). It is helped a bit by my slightly *ahem* adjusted sleeping scheduled (who knew that the university student would sleep a bit longer in the mornings, given the chance!). However, the clock is currently a bit late and I am only a wake due to a handful too many cups of tea consumed. I probably won't be here at this hour during the weekdays!

This is my character progression as it stands thus far.

Jaduf comes into the room with a smile, "Ummm... I may be lost, can anyone direct me to the... Local tavern?"

Soo... badass normal to all our badass monsters? If thats your cup of tea, though the freebie LA levels makes me wonder tue sort of beast ill see once you finish applying the templates.
If you have darkness as an SLA once you get done consider the nightmare fist line to rock into shatter defenses.
Hrmm.. well im kinda concerned as we are all playing monsters and rogues are rather underpowered without quite a lot of mechanical rejigging. I have no doubts that you can create a nasty rogue but they are often more of a pain in the ass to make than most.
Ought to be interesting to see.

Yes, I'm happy and preppy and so absolutely perfect that I will be able to handle that without a single issue. :D

ummm... Yeah... I'm pretty sure I'll be ripped into shreds...

The "Nightmare" template applied to a ninja or other charisma class with sneak attack could turnnout awesome.
Id also mentionnthst as races CR = LA that something like a darkstalker, faceless stalker or Totenklmaske could all make for fun rogues.
Or a nightmare template quickling. *shudder* regen, fear aura massive speed and at will invisibility.

Well it is not like I am going to throw the Variant Ancient Dragon at you on this the second mission. More like the 4th Mission is all.

If he nicely agrees to not use any spells or spell like abilities, I'm sure we can win.

Snakescale Armor $8,900
Ring of Featherfall $2,200
Belt of Incredible Dex+2 $4,000
Gloves of Recon $2,000
Bracers of Armor+2 $4,000
Amulet of Natural Armor+1 $2,000

Total $23,100
Gold $25,000
Remaining 1,900 GP to be put into potions. :D

I'm not going to be anything too evil, I think I'll be fine starting this way... especially with a +5 AC from magic and +5 from my new armor.. I'll just be untouchable :D

Well the last one was an aboleth with Alzheimer's and the demon barbers cousin who had an unfortunate introduction to a were tiger.
Nevrr mind the psychedelic journey to the land of oceans and sea monsters.

So even if we are being killed I expect it will be in an I interesting fashion.

That last suggestion Sanriel, sounds a bit close to what I am going to try cooking up for Dris...

I am so going to make a character using that Nightmare Ninja Idea

The badass normal will not be too good in a fight against the undead sadly.... especially considering he fights with his bare hands

also PM to GM

Great minds think alike I guess. That or infecting you my my brain diseases

Undead can be sneak attacked in pathfinder. Basically the only things that cant in this system are oozes and elementals.

"The masterful Jaduf, At your service, I can get anywhere and steal anything, If I have to pass through another plane, you provide the magic, but as long as it is a physical thing in a physical place, I can grab it for you." The man clad in dull grey-green armor with open fingered gloves gives an extravagant bow and a smug smile as he introduces himself.

Hrmm.. so if you are already set on your idea feel free to ignore my rambling
However you could get quite a lot of mileage out of the vivisectionist archetype alchemist with that concept as I realize that we seem to not have one of those in the party yet. Plus poison and alchemical mastery, the only class in the game that can make poisons not suck.
Never mind that with a druid present the whole cost problem with poison goes out the window. Sneak attack and alchemist mixtures would make for some fun times.

As to the players of Zookeeper characters we probably ougt to establish how the interactions with that is going to work.

Yeah... I don't really want to go in the direction of spellcasting considering that all of the other people really have that covered...

I was thinking of more of the skillmonkey set... and besides... we are going against drow... I'll just aquesition their poisons

I heard mention of a free +2 CR template, is that on top of whatever badass race we choose? Because if so, that solves all my problems right there.

*shrug* alchemists are vicious self buffers. With everyone covering the spells it means you can focus on making yourself more awesome.
Though I suppose if the abuse the hell out of use magic device as a rogue you could get similar effects.

The way I understand it is your race is the +2 template.

I am a human and you have all of your racial buffs, You don't get another +2 levels over me in addition to your +2 racial levels...

*Wags finger*

I had thought I read somewhere that we're CR 9 thanks to the bonus template(if we so choose) or something. Idk, that's why I'm asking, lol.

The way I understand it was that normal humanoid races cost nothing in CR. Building a customrace cost a number of LA based off build points and such.
The game is the same rules as thunderbeards generation rules. That is 7class levels and 2free levels of level adjustment in order to encourage monsterous characters. Tha t was kind of the point.
Ill see if I can round up all of the crunch tonight when I can access an actual computer.
I know thunderbeard also threw around the nerf bat a bit after the game started to prevent high CR monsters from utterly blowing everything else out of the water.

For your badass normal id suggest the advanced template(possibly twice?) or just seei g if remnant is cool with making your template a bruce wayne level of adjusted wealth to afford all the fancy tools you desire.

The way I understand it was that normal humanoid races cost nothing in CR. Building a customrace cost a number of LA based off build points and such.

The game is the same rules as thunderbeards generation rules. That is 7class levels and 2free levels of level adjustment in order to encourage monsterous characters. Tha t was kind of the point.
I know thunderbeard also threw around the nerf bat a bit after the game started to prevent high CR monsters from utterly blowing everything else out of the water.

For your badass normal id suggest the advanced template(possibly twice?) or just seei g if remnant is cool with making your template a bruce wayne level of adjusted wealth to afford all the fancy tools you desire.

no no, we are... I want my badass normal to be a badass /Normal/

Monkeygod was asking if he can tack on a template in addition to his race.... Thats why I said "I don't think so"

*shrug* well he can tack more templates on but it eats Into his character level to do it.

I always felt the advanced template was more of a paragon of a race than anything. Concentrated vanilla if you will.

The advanced template is waaay better than an extra character level sans gold. If it's an option, I would take it.

Seriously. It's ridiculous. It was banned in our thread.

Hrmm... point, I would argue that an unaugmented human with the advanced template is a much different case than something with more natural powerful.
But I do agree that in basically every case it has been used the advanced template is just too damn strong.

And now I have a computer.
so.
Creation rules.

Comments and changes further up the thread
And then:
Thunderbeards comments at start of game

Pretty sure that was the highlights.

Whatever you are, you should end up as CR 9.

There are ways to really extort power out of the rules (like with the Advanced template, or abuse of custom item creation), but I think it would be best if we all avoided those.

Right now, I'm pretty sure Meridian is the most powerful character in the group, mostly by virtue of being nigh-unkillable by the resources available to enemies anywhere near our CR. Monkey, I'd recommend trying to "aim low" on initial power level. We can always bring you up if you feel you're underperforming (that's what we did with the initial incarnation of Drisquar). Hitting characters with the nerf-bat is a lot less fun.

Hey GM, are we using the previous game's events as history for the characters being imported?

Do we already know each other?

How did we get involved in this new situation?

Hrmm.. so if you are already set on your idea feel free to ignore my rambling

However you could get quite a lot of mileage out of the vivisectionist archetype alchemist with that concept as I realize that we seem to not have one of those in the party yet. Plus poison and alchemical mastery, the only class in the game that can make poisons not suck.
Never mind that with a druid present the whole cost problem with poison goes out the window. Sneak attack and alchemist mixtures would make for some fun times.

As to the players of Zookeeper characters we probably ougt to establish how the interactions with that is going to work.

[poison]My first thought to represent a fleshcrafting drider was actually to pick up the vivisectionist archetype. Sadly, since it kindof relies on class features, it didn't pan out together with the high CR of the drider. And finding poisons that were useful but not oh-my-god broken (*ahem* drugs!) was a bit of a hassle.

The Toxiocological Timing chain can contribute with some fun shenanigans. It finds a use for all those slow acting poisons that is cheap and powerful. Sadly, one needs quite a few ranks!

There is also a Poison Focus feat that might come in handy. Its like spell focus but for poison spells and crafted poisons!

Additionally - you could always ask your druid/witch "friends" to cast this into a spell storing weapon. Jhaelwyn has that spell laying around in case she manages to afford one of those : )

Lastly - if we come across any nicely poisonous critter that we for one reason or another can't bring with us Jhaelwyn might be able to hook you up anyhow. The rules for custom fleshcrafts are a bit unclear, but transplanting a venom-sack should (gm willing !) be possible.[/poison]

@Anaxian
Is the typical adventurer not one CR below their level on average? seems like the intended balance point was closer to CR8 rather than 9 but meh.
That being the case I'm fairly sure our badass normal will need a boost in levels. Should likely be closer to the L9-10 range if that is the balance point we want.

@Jhaelwyn
Arguably you could use the Advanced races guide version of the Drider, the 35 race point one and fill in with levels of alchemist.
There is a great advantage of using the actual monster and getting casting as a level eight witch from the race and class levels combined.
Though I'm wondering how that works with witches hexes as they are not actually spells.

My personal favorite poison is House Centipede poison. Cheap and effective for its cost. Unfortunately it doesn't scale very well. Though there are some rather fun sea urchin poisons in pathfinder.

As to fleshcrafting our rogue I get the feeling that he won't be alright with that. Better to save such measures for much later down the road.

Levels = CR

Makes the math super simple.

We are all CR 9. The recommendation was 7 levels of classes with +2 CR of templates or monster hit dice.

Obviously there are some exceptions, but as long as we are all CR 9, the exact math of how we get there doesn't really matter.

@CR & classes

A NPC with a PC class is CR = level -1.

A NPC with a PC class and PC wealth is CR = level

@Advanced race Drider - Yeah, I considered that. Sadly, they don't get any of the fun toys (poison and web!). They are just a mess really (oh, spend ~10 Race point to get large without *any* of the benefits* ? Sounds great! *okay, size bonus to intimidate and +1 cmb/cmd).

The Witch Hexes (and Patron spells) are Class features, so sadly they don't advance. I picked the White Haired Witch which replaces Hexes anyhow (with another fun toy - constricting hair! [or silken strands, in this case :)]).

Another reason I picked Witch casting is that it is a bit weaker then cleric and wizardy (since I can't just dip one level to regain the Arcane School or Domain features). And that there was no Witch earlier. And that Witches get a funny list : )

@Favourite Poison - I like the Blue Whinnis poison. It is rather cheap, got decent DC (14 for 120gp?), targets Con and can knock people out. Lasts a bit short - but that is usually not a problem : )

@Turning our normal rogue into an abomination via fleshcrafting - Perhaps not :P But one might be able to move useful features such as poison production to more compliant hosts.

I PM Remnant about my suggestion. We'll see where it leads.

Hrmm, a fair point on CR. Will have to see where we end up when that balancing act actually gets applied in game.

@Jhaelwyn.
Heh, that's an amusing concept for the white haired witch ability. And while the witch list might be weaker mechanically the amusement factor if you roll with the flavor is great.
Coat of wasps, vomit swarm and Whip of spiders as examples.
Nothing says 'GAH!' like grappling someone with your hair and vomiting spiders into their open mouth.
And yes Abominating PC's would likely make for sad times. between all the undead and outsiders in the group I get the feeling that pickings for fleshwarping will be restricted to NPC allies or pressganged enemies mostly.

@Fleshcrafting - Yeah. I do not expect to be able to just hack apart everything we find and glue it to some unfortunate soul (just *stealing* monster features and stacking onto a PC would probably get OP and annoying real quick!). More like it might make a good plot point. Besides, at some point, I'd like to try and piece together some cool cohort critter :)

And it is a good excuse to sharpen my knives and grin at people!

@Spiders + mouth - Good idea. I'll make a note! *Switches out Bestow Insight for Vomit Swarm on prepared spells*

Illia is like Meredian in the "very nearly unkillable" category, but doesn't actually do anything in combat until next level unless she can spam Unholy Blight. :P

Hrmm... point, I would argue that an unaugmented human with the advanced template is a much different case than something with more natural powerful.

But I do agree that in basically every case it has been used the advanced template is just too damn strong.

And now I have a computer.
so.
Creation rules.

Comments and changes further up the thread
And then:
Thunderbeards comments at start of game

Pretty sure that was the highlights.

I recall as I made my own character for that thread that he had banned the advanced and I carried that over to here (since he did the heavy lifting of the initial decisions).

Total of 9 Character Levels of class, race, templates, etc.

Total of 9

@Fleshcrafting - Yeah. I do not expect to be able to just hack apart everything we find and glue it to some unfortunate soul (just *stealing* monster features and stacking onto a PC would probably get OP and annoying real quick!). More like it might make a good plot point. Besides, at some point, I'd like to try and piece together some cool cohort critter :)

And it is a good excuse to sharpen my knives and grin at people!

@Spiders + mouth - Good idea. I'll make a note! *Switches out Bestow Insight for Vomit Swarm on prepared spells*

"If you think that you are going to cut me open and make me 'better' I swear that I will twist your legs off and slap you with them...." Jaduf says with a grin and flexes his hands, knuckles popping under the leather of his gloves...

"Incidentally I specialize in grappling and pins, so I guess that maybe another set of arms would be helpful....WAIT NO THAT ISN'T PERMISSION ARRRGH!!!!"