Leinathan's Motteditor's Kingmaker PBP (Inactive)

Game Master leinathan

:)

(Looks like you guys are in good shape in the game thread, so I'm stepping back to give you space to play. Holler when you need me. That said, I'm again going to be gone on Sunday, returning sometime Monday, though not sure it'll be in time to post.)

Here's what I think we should keep:

- the 3 potions of CMW
- the 4 potions of CSW

^ split between Prazil and Katerina, as they currently have no self-healing and stay in the frontline

- the wand of CMW

^ given to me, as I can use it without UMD and have no natural healing ability

- the 3 elixirs of swimming

^ on Kat, Prazil and I, as we are the ones with the least ability to deal with water

- the widen spell metamagic rod

^ on Keerek, as it's a pretty expensive metamagic spell that he probably wouldn't take but definitely still has value in some situations

- - - - -

I think we should sell everything else, and split up the earnings.

Works for me!

Presuming we can offload our spoils from the boggard village here on our day off in Pitax, here's the sale break down.

potion of sanctuary <sells for> 12.5
wand of poison (9 charges) <sells for> 1,890
+2 hide armor <sells for> 2,082.5
+1 icy morningstar <sells for> 4,154
masterwork light wooden shield <sells for> 76.5
+1 hide armor x2 <sells for> 1,165
masterwork handaxe x2 <sells for> 306
masterwork trident x2 <sells for> 330
56 pp
1,287 gp
2,019 sp
872 cp
black opals (200 gp) x5 <sells for> 1,000
gold bracelets (each is decorated with a different forest animal motif and is worth 25 gp) x10 <sells for> 250
a box of Taldan-stamped gold ingots worth 250 gp x12 <sells for> 3,000
adamantine quickmetal bracers <sells for> 2,500

Net Gain: 18,824.12
5-way cut would yield: 3,764.82 for each of us
6-way cut would yield: 3,137.35 (with the 6th cut going toward the party stores for the purchase of restoratives)

---Do we want a 5-way split or a 6-way?---

Notes
We have 6 wands of clw that haven't been touched in the party stores still.
We still need to ID the harp.

I think we should do a 6-way cut.

And I think Agnar should stop using his spells to heal us ;D

Agnar Wand-Fingers does have a funny ring to it.

I vote for the six way cut!

Sixes. :)

6 way cut added to everyone's tab in the Inventory Log, potions and other kept items added as well.

Agnar only uses spells when the CLW from the wands won't be sufficient, or when he knows we'll have a rest.

Love the treasure split, thanks for doing that Marcy and Prazil.

You're able to sell everything in the city. Let me know if you want to buy anything/do anything else, please; I'll move you on tomorrow barring you guys wanting to do something more than buying/selling gear.

I'd like to trade my cloak of resistance +1 in for a +3 version if one's available, good sir mott.

That's fine ... as long as you pay the difference! :)

Nearly got away with it! Rats! =P

---

+500gp (sell +1 cloak)
-9,000gp (purchase +3 cloak)

Hey guys, I guess I just wanted to check in. I'm struggling once again about what to do with this game. I don't really want to end it, but I'm not sure how much any of us are enjoying it. Momentum is king in PBP and we've had 8 posts in all of August. I keep finding myself updating my other games and just ... not getting to this game.

I know Kereek is at Gen Con and thus away from his computer for the most part, so I don't want to do anything too hastily but am curious about how you're all feeling about it.

I suppose I could share some thoughts.

I think the #1 redeeming feature of this game is the kooky party. However, cleaving directly to an AP's as-written material is a bit dissatisfying for me for a few reasons. First is that the combats simply aren't that difficult, and second is that the rails are really really evident, having read the adventure already.

That whole boggard business, now that I've been there as a player, feels really superfluous. What are 12th-level heroes who are supposed to be attending an international diplomacy event doing there, literally mucking around in the mud? It just seems really counter to the expectations of where a 12th-level character should be. I really feel that way about the fourth and fifth chapters of this AP in general as well. They're simply not high-magnitude enough.

As for right at this exact moment... I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to be doing right now? Marcelline really would party until she was summoned to do something else.Perhaps you could invent some NPCs for us to interact with, or blow a horn to summon everyone to the beginning of the games? I'm not sure.

Does all of that make sense?

I still love it, but it does feel like this particular group slows down in the more sandboxy bits.

I've been busy (then sick) and then busy again of late, so the relative slowness isn't bothering me, to be honest. It's actually been the only one of the games of yours that I'm in mott that I haven't been stressing over keeping up with, which has been a relief!

I'll try to be more direct and push more with my posts though if you think it'd help. I'd rather step it up if that'll make it more enjoyable for you and everyone else than rest on my proverbial laurels.

Anyone else have any thoughts on the matter?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Marcy and Prazil. I haven't made any decisions yet and am also curious to hear from everyone else.

OK, some more thoughts on this...

1) Kat is where I imagined her being as far as her martial ability goes :) While exciting...

2) I think what I want to explore with her now is her naivete in the world. For example, her learning how to maneuver in politics; that is, being a Sword Lord is not just a title, but leadership and responsibility, too.

3) Marcy is spot on irt the boggards. While the Froghemoth was cool (haven't fought one of those since Barrier Peaks!), there comes a point where PCs of a certain power level just don't do manual labor. And this feeds back to point two, that was a job for lowbie adventurers :o

4) The other thing I want to explore with Kat is her relationships in the world. While she is super tough when it comes to survival, she is also incredibly vulnerable when it comes to her heart.

I totally forgot that we're actually level 13. Haha.

Anyway, I agree with Kat. At least, that the story needs to shift to a different sort of story at a certain point. And with Prazil that medium-length periods without posting don't bother me. I have two homebrew games on here, and though they're not at breakneck paces it's fine that I don't have to stress about posting here.

I'm definitely still enjoying the game, but sandboxy bits do slow things down unless we're all agreed to keep flogging them forward. I am looking forward to dealing with dignitaries at this level of our career. Let's see how diplomatic we can be!

Hey guys,

Agnar reached out to me and he's planning to drop out (to spend more time with his children), though he says he can stick around for a bit longer as needed. And honestly, that just makes me more convinced that we should call the game; the only reason I haven't already is because I really enjoy the characters.

I'm not sure the AP itself is what folks are really looking for. Yes, there's some actual politics-type stuff, especially in this current scene, but a lot of the rest of the game is more explorer-type stuff, a lot of which I've cut out -- the boggards felt like they were for lower level adventurers because they were probably more intended for the exploration aspect of the previous book. I added it back in partly so you could get more of the module and as a sidetrek to play with Prazil and the sword (I'd been thinking of doing more with that before seeing folks didn't seem to be liking the sidetrek), but the rest is more of the same (albeit higher level challenges). It's a very loose plot line IMO and I'm just not sure that works in PBP.

I'm traveling a bit from Sunday-Wednesday, so I may think about it during that time and try to make my final decision. I'm definitely happy to get more feedback and chat about it as you guys want.

These characters are pretty dang great.

Hmm, okay.

How about, if this game lacks momentum and the written material lacks some of the things that we're interested in exploring, that we move horizontally over to something else?

Curse of the Crimson Throne/Hell's Rebels/Skull & Shackles have some political stuff, and can easily be modified to include more. Of course, a poltical intrigue game is just as sandboxy as an exploration game, only in a different way.

My thought is driven by the idea that when you have players, when they're consistent and loyal, and when they're good writers, you keep those players. We don't have to push away at the exact same game, but we could take a poll to figure out exactly what we're each interested in pursuing and then figure out a way to do that. If that involves the present characters, we can do that as well.

Thoughts? I'm willing to run the separate adventures if mott wants a break or if they don't have any specific ideas for what to do.

Hmm, I've had a second thought.

As for switching the focus on the game up, that might be difficult. This party isn't really designed for anything except for epic and fast combat. Katerina's only skills with decent bonuses are Acrobatics, Intimidate, Perception, and Sense Motive. Prazil's are Handle Animal and Survival. Keerek's are Knowledge (planes) and Stealth, and he is mostly a blaster caster whose utility options pretty much limited to invisibility, water breathing, and teleport.

Not that this is a bad thing, I'm just imagining Prazil and Keerek trying to navigate some 3dgy investigation adventure or political battles between rival noble families and it's sort of a funny image ^-^

Kereek is definitely fun to play and part of this stems from the fact that he's not optimized for much beyond blowing things up. And that's just fine by me. I love playing a character who is not ready for the challenges presented to him. It makes for a fun time.

That's a really good point! It's definitely a style of play choice that helps let us know what to do.

I've enjoyed Prazil for many of the same reasons as Kereek has been fun for James: he's not optimized well at all and he's not equipped for much of what we get thrust into.

And I love how childlike he is. And I also love breaching walls with an armored triceratops.

I made a triceratops fly.

'Nuff said.

Seriously. The attack on the fort at Varnhold that started here is some of the most fun I have ever had playing DnD or Pathfinder.

I know! I think it's the sense of whimsy and innocence that makes Kereek feel so real to me. I have characters I play and I have characters I just channel, giving him life for a little while. Kereek is definitely one of those. Even if we stop playing, that little kobold will live on.

Yeah, and like I said, that's why I've held on for so long. Still, if Marcy's willing to run some further adventures for this crew, maybe that's for the best. Leinathan's (Marcy) a damn fine GM from what I've seen in his game and I think would carry on well if willing and interested. I looked through what I had in terms of other modules and just am not finding the energy it would take to convert them (that said, I'll shoot you some ideas that you're free to take or not).

Since Agnar's dropping, if you're willing/interested, I could create a character to join in on the fun. I don't think the group has any way to heal at the moment, and I could look into doing something along those lines.

I support whatever decision you make, Mott. You're a great GM and player and I'd be happy to do whatever. Still, I want it to be told that somewhere in the Stolen Lands there is a kingdom where kobolds counsel kings and where increasingly inappropriate match-making occurs with said king, because moon radishes make us do strange and wondrous things. Where herbivorous dinosaurs fly across the moon late at night. Where the birds are always watching and if you badmouth our ruler, a small dark shadow will visit you in the wee hours of the morning and burn your house to the ground.

Would you guys mind telling me about your kingdom?

The kind of place it is, its alignment, its goals, its demographics? Tell me about Baron Jon. How big is it? What's its population? Does it have any landmarks or special buildings? Is it known for anything in particular?

Does it have a military? What is the military made up of?

Prazil is a great military leader! Seriously, we did pretty well with the mass combat the one time the Tiger Lords invaded with some trolls. I think you were with us at that point, weren't you, Marcy?

Thronehold has some quirky elements to its forces. An armored kobold astride an armored triceratops chiefest among them, but there's also Feather: an owlbear Prazil saved before the events with Varnhold that he raised from a cubchick. Chickcub? It was young. I like to think Feather is still incredibly sour tempered, but Prazil's too cheery to notice and mistakes Feather's bites for play. As for standing forces, I can't speak to the size of them, but I always imagined with Prazil's influence they'd focus on cavalry units as the backbone of their troops.

We've made friends almost everywhere we've gone rather than enemies. The kobold tribe from which Kereek and Prazil originated for starters, the burgeoning community we founded at Tatzylford, that pseudodragon and sprite pair whose names I forget, the centaurs neighboring Varnhold as well as all the inhabitants of Varnhold...

We've really only burned bridges with the trolls. I'm guessing the folks we saved from the TigerLords are on friendly terms as well, but that lady who pointed us in the right direction obviously had some plans for a power grab and I'm not sure where that leaves us.

Baronduke Jon, as Prazil calls him, is a paladin. I remember him as being humble and kind, but also willing to step into the mess to protect people. He struck me as less a lawful-stupid kind of paladin and more of a world-wise boyscout.

Yeah, I'd say we never really defined the military, in part because I felt it didn't quite work once we got away from kingdom tracking and thus mass combat. As Prazil noted, it's quirky with lots of irregular units.

I'd say Prazil nailed most of the other stuff pretty quickly. Baron Jon was briefly a player in the campaign but at least IMO didn't leave the strongest impression. The kingdom was set up as neutral good, but again, that didn't end up factoring into things too much.

--

On a more micro level, what are people looking for in a character I create? Obviously we need some ability to heal, but are there other things folks want?

Oh, in case it wasn't explicit... I've been talking with mott about taking this game over and trying to make it into something which captures your attention more effectively.

To that end, I'm planning to incorporate a lot more of the higher-level politics, leadership, and massive scenarios.

It's helpful to know who's who, what's what, and what things look like.

For example, how many cities does your kingdom have? How many inhabitants? How developed are the cities? Are they still wooden cottages and mud roads, or are there paved roads, universities, big markets, trade deals, immigrants, and more? How's the infrastructure?

I guess I'm getting that you guys haven't been doing that so far, and I'm not at all thinking that I want to re-introduce the kingdom-building rules... I dunno. Are you guys interested in deciding some of these things? Or would you prefer to just remain adventurers and let management fall to others (that is to say, leaving the decision of what the setting is like to me)?

Yeah, early attempts to build the kingdom just never worked out.

In my mind, there was Thronehold (which was developing into a decent city, though still borderland -- so probably a mix of dirt and cobblestone roads, stone and wooden buildings... -- Tatzylford, and most recently adding in Fort Drelev. Because of the harmony they're going for with nature, they've also got the kobold caves as another community.

Not sure if others thought differently.

Leinathan, do you plan on continuing to play Marcy too? That may affect some of my character-making decisions...

Frankly, I don't even know if we have a castle or keep or similar structure in Thronehold.

The layout of the city, numbers and types of buildings, population demographics, infrastructure, and roads are things that I typically wouldn't ever even wonder about as a player. If asked, I would think, 'yes, I'm sure those things exist somewhere' but as for me playing the game and having fun adventuring, they're essentially immaterial.

And that's part of the disappointment with Kingmaker. Because steering all that sounded neat at the outset, but when the rubber met the road, it was weeks of hassle and delay. And this gets to one of my biggest weaknesses as a pbp player: I flat out suck at new subsystems. The more complicated, the worse it gets for me. Any time there's any kind of question for the group to decide, I have to spend a big chunk of time rereading the special rules to understand the mechanics and context and likely outcomes and basically learn them from scratch all over again. And because it takes a week for everyone to weigh in on a decision, I literally have to relearn it all every single time.

It happened each time we took a Kingdom turn in this game & it's happening right now in a Hell's Rebels game I'm in with the Rebellion rules.

And at the end of the day, I find going through an adventure with fun writing and interplay between characters TONS more fun than hashing out details and town modifiers and what order to build buildings in a discussion thread.

And mott, as for what you should play, all I have is genuine but mostly unhelpful advice: whatever you think you'd enjoy.

Maybe steer away from Ranger (favored enemy: kobold), though. =)

/me tears up that character idea...

And, yeah, I find subsystems in PBP especially are a real drag. Without someone very dedicated to them, they grind games to a halt.

I believe Thronehold has a castle, though (it was created in the first turn, though there was some discussion that we inadvertently cheated in that first turn)...

Also there is a large menagerie for birds, since Kereek uses them as his feathery spy network. And a wizard's tower, with an open top floor for Kereek's draconic forays.

Kobold Ranger on the other hand.... lol

I agree with the bit about subsystems.

I have, for example, dropped the caravan rules.

If you guys aren't interested in being the deciding factor in what the kingdom is like, that's totally fine. I can have control over the setting and the NPCs. I have tons of NPCs stored away from my own experiences with Kingmaker.

I believe I'll be traveling Sunday and Wednesday to visit my folks. I expect to be online Monday and Tuesday, though am not 100 percent sure I will.

Oh, I'll definitely play something I enjoy in terms of role-play, but I can tailor that to what works best with others for roll-play. Are people looking for another front-line combatant, another ranged combatant (that's the role Agnar often played, but Kereek can handle a lot of that).

Lore support. But then I love Bards ;)

I finished my own F2F Kingmaker game over the weekend!

Choral was fake the whole time, it was a ploy by Cheliax, and they seized power over the whole region. Two of my players directly oppose one another politically and two of my players became demigods.

If you guys aren't opposed, I'll start up a new thread where I am the GM for this group sometime this week. The consensus was that we wanted to stick it out, but what we wanted to try and have a marginally different game, wasn't it?

If leinathan will be playing Marcy still, I think we have the front line pretty well covered, mott. That leaves the biggest two "holes" as ranged and divine. I'm less thrilled with bard as an option as I think a lot of the bard's buffs would overwrite many of Prazil's - so mechanically that'd be a little weak.

----

I'm happy to stick things out, yeah. I don't know what your plans are, but I look forward to somehow accidentally thwarting them by virtue of a gigantic, wall-breaching triceratops. =)

Oh, I wouldn't do a GMPC. That's trashy.

However, with a party of four, Katerina and Prazil are just as much front-lining as you could possibly need.

As far as I can see, the party doesn't really need more prowess in combat. Not that you should make a character that's useless at that, but a support character is definitely what's needed.