Leinathan's Motteditor's Kingmaker PBP (Inactive)

Game Master leinathan

FYI, I'll be out of town Sunday through Thursday.

I've got some long weekends on the road coming up so my posting may be a bit spotty through Nov. 3 or so; should be back to normal after that.

OK, so Kat has the Cloak of Resistance +3. That means if anyone needs it, her old Cloak of Resistance +1 is available.

Ok, she's not an archer... :p

Prazil's whole schtick is pumping his AC, so that +2 ring of protection is looking mighty nice to his scaly eyes, but Kat's been taking some nasty hits. If she's not getting a deflection bonus already, it'd probably be best for her to slip that puppy on instead.

Also, did anyone claim her hand-me-down +1 cloak of resistance? I recall Kereek declining as he likes the cloak he's already sporting. Agnar? You want or need a little boost to your saves?

Also also, that eye of the void is nuts! I suspect Kereek to enjoy that thing a little too much (at Prazil's expense) when we're not adventuring D=

Kat has a ring of Seven Lovely Colors, and that is a +1 Deflection that also lets her Beast Shape IV into a songbird (and that is hand dandy handy!)

D'oh! I already had a ring of protection! I completely forgot about it!

Anybody want a hand-me-down ring of protection +1? =P

I think Kereek is maxed out on rings, with a ring of feather falling and one of spell knowledge. Plus he's not really an up close and personal sort of fellow.

I imagine Kat is getting pretty frustrated stumbling into the traps and what-have-yous in here. So, I am thinking about her next level up: should I invest in a class that gives Disable Device as a Class Skill? Under consideration is the benefit of adding two levels...

Again, this is an exercise in Theoryfinder and is not sure to happen (I like how Kat has come out so far and look forward to her being tested in a more 'civilized' realm ;) )

Rogue:
the old stand by, eh? Kat's original build (before Swashbuckler) actually had 2 rogue levels.
Pros: Disable Device, Trapfinding, Sneak Attack, the most Skill Points (Kat would net 10, INT and Human)
Cons: Stunted BAB, Stunted Saves (I don't think Kat needs more REF)

Investigator:
Pros: Disable Device, Trapfinding, Inspiration(Kat would have one point, so this is almost a wash), Extracts (I am thinking True Strike twice a-day), Will Save bonus (a +2 at level one), Alchemy
Cons: Stunted BAB

Ninja:
If I did this, she would be taking two level for sure. The Invisibility trick is too good to pass up!
Pros: Diasble Device, Poison Use (which Kat would find despicable - a wasted class ability :/)
- At level two, Vanishing Trick, Ki (Kat would have three Ki Points), that's three extra attacks at crucial moments...
Cons: Stunted BAB, Stunted Saves, (see Rogue)

Alchemist also offers Disable Device, but I cannot see that as ever being part of Kat's world. ("Trade steel and honor for labs and grenades? You must be daft!") For Rogue, keep in mind where she came from, it would be a re-learning of some school of hard knocks skills from her youth. As for Investigator, she has tried to find discipline in steel, but (again) with her background, it is easy to imagine that the skills she learned as a youth could translate well here. Of course, "How did she learn extracts" becomes a serious question. :)

Lastly, I considered the Archaeologist Bard, but rather dismissed it out of hand as it has a metric ton to offer, but doesn't offer Disable Device which is kind of the point of the exercise. :)

Again, this is an exercise in Theoryfinder and is not sure to happen (I like how Kat has come out so far and look forward to her being tested in a more 'civilized' realm ;) )

Investigator would be interesting, but for the inspiration problem. I'm not sure stunting our frontline fighter is worth the chance to bypass traps. If nothing else, I can get some find traps scrolls and then summon monsters to set the traps off if we can't bypass them.

I was looking at the Sleuth Archetype...

"Stunting our frontline fighter"?! Agnar! You wound me, sir! As if Kat were the only frontliner in the group. Psshaw! =P

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Joking aside, if you're looking to multiclass just to pick up DD as a class skill, you could just plunk down a feat on Skill Focus instead, Kat. Same net total gain to DD (moreso if you eventually wind up devoting 10 ranks to it), without the BAB lag or slow down of your other class features.

lol I was just going to point out that Prazil is a pretty good tank, too. And in a build that makes all others shine, too :)

For taking Skill Focus... meh. It seems to me there could be a lot more bang for the buck in splashing. Especially if the class has Trapfinding, netting the Class Skill bonus as well as the +1/2 level bonus :)

As for 'stunting'... let's explore :)

Kat is right now a Swashbuckler 8/Aldori Swordlord 1.

by level bennies of getting more Swashbuckler Levels:
9: +1 to hit/damage w/ Swashbuckler Weapon Training
10: one more use of Charmed Life (+2 untyped save bonus)
11: Deed - Bleeding Wound; bleed =DEX mod, so it could be substantial; requires *spending* panache
Deed - Evasivs; Evasion, Uncanny and Improved Uncanny Dodge; requires at least 1 Panache
Deed - Subtle Balde; immune to disarm/steal/sunder; useful to keep our DPR where it should be :)
12: Bonus Feat
13: +1 to hit/damage w/ Swashbuckler Weapon Training

So, other than BAB, REF and d10 hitpoints, only Evasive stands out to me (but the ability to prevent flanking sounds really useful for her style ;) )

So, let's look at the specifics of any of the other classes I mentioned :) For comparison's sake, I have noted everything in relation to the same number of levels of Swashbuckler.

Investigator (Sleuth) 1
Inspiration: still applies, 1 point of Inspiration. Limited usefulness, but we do have some serious holes in our Knowledges, so this would compensate that...some. :/
Luck: Kat would have a pool of Three Luck, but Mott, how do you read this part? there is some ambiguous text about Extra Panache *can* add to this...
- Deed: Daring +d6 to one of many skills
- Deed: Evasion; spend luck to apply the Evasion ability in one instance
- Deed: +2 Initiative

Net for one level of Investigator (Sleuth): +2 Init, sometimes Evasion, +1 REF, +1 WILL, -1 BAB, -2 HP, +2 Skill Points and access to skills we simply don't have. Disable Device with one Rank: 1+3+1+6=+11
*note: I don't see any reason to continue progressing in this class

Ninja 2
Sneak Attack: +d6 precision damage
Ki Pool: 3 Ki, allowing any of 1) extra attack, 2) Vanishing Trick
Vanishing Trick (I cannot overstate the value of this trick.)

Net for two levels of Ninja: +3.5 damage (on a substantial number of attacks, as she can generally get to where it's useful. Also, her AC, HP, and Parries are good enough that she isn't a squishy target in the middle of a fray); +8 skill points, but not as flexible as the Investigators, nor does it grant Trapfinding; -1 BAB; +2 REF, -1 Fort and Will; -4 HP; Disable Device with one Rank: 1+3+6=+10
As I look at some of these negatives I think this one is taking itself off the table: Kat can hardly afford to have weaker Fort and Will Saves!

And, Bard (Archaeologist) 2
Arcaeologist's Luck: Swift Action +1 to Skills, Saves, to hit, and Damage; 6 rounds a day
+1 bonus on Disable Device and Perception; disable traps in 1/2 time
Uncanny Dodge
Bardic Knowledge (+1 to all Knowledge skills? This would help cover those knowledge holes we have, too)
Spells! (ask Prazil how helpful it is to have someone that can cast Featherfall on hand!) Secondarily, the ability to wand whip in a pinch.
Net: +1 WILL and REF, -1 Fort, -1 BAB, -4 HP, +4 Skill Points into skills we don't have access to, but not (crucially) Disable Device. Disable Device with one Rank: 1+1+6=+8
*note: this would require some story-ing to make it fit right. Maybe when Raul left one of his trinkets stayed behind to mentor?

I don't own a copy of PF Unchained, and I understand the UnC Rogue is much gooder than it was...

Keep in mind, I do plan to add in a fifth person (again) once you get out of this dungeon. Which isn't to say you shouldn't have multiple ways to contribute or do whatever you think would be how Kat would develop. It feels like a swashbuckler should have some way to avoid traps...

I'd say it's not as big a deal losing a +1 to hit vs. say losing a level of spell progression. Kat's been generally hitting pretty well and dishing out massive amounts of damage while Prazil sucks up attacks that never hit.

As far as trapfinding goes, that bonus is based on the class you'd be dipping into, not your character level - so a total of what, +1? Not that attractive in my view.

Right, but it is something. Also, the Bard bonus is also a bonus to Perception, not limited to traps :) Also, "Trapfinding" gives me the chance to go after magical traps, which are oft times more debilitating than mundane traps are.

But, depending on what happens with #5 this may be a moot point :D

"Stunting our frontline fighter"?! Agnar! You wound me, sir! As if Kat were the only frontliner in the group. Psshaw! =P

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Joking aside, if you're looking to multiclass just to pick up DD as a class skill, you could just plunk down a feat on Skill Focus instead, Kat. Same net total gain to DD (moreso if you eventually wind up devoting 10 ranks to it), without the BAB lag or slow down of your other class features.

Sorry, wasn't trying to undercut Prazil's contributions to the team. I was writing with a rather nasty headache that lasted most of the afternoon and part of the evening and that was about as coherent as I could get.

lol No worries, Papa Wolf :)

I was doing more research: Signature Deed. I can do one parry /round at a cost of Zero Panache :) I think I will stay Swashy since we are adding a 5th :D

Swish-swash, lady! Swish-swash!

In other news, does anyone want that +1 dagger? If not, I'm presuming it's medium-sized. As such, would Prazil be able wield that as a small-sized shortsword or would it still be a dagger with the added fun of wrongly-sized-weapon penalties?

I can keep it as a backup...

If I need something in a grapple or a close fight, I've got my claws.

Hey guys, I'm getting my office painted starting tomorrow so my posting may be a little spotty for a few days. (Of course, it's possible I move my computer and everything into another room, because 24 hours without being online could be too much for me.)

Starting Thursday, my posting may be a bit limited. The ol' ball and chain's home through Jan. 3. I still expect I'll post during some of that time (I have to work some days and we don't tend to spend every single minute together) but if I'm slow on the uptake, that's why.

Holy monkeyballs, this cyclops lich is gonna kick our butts!

Yeah, it's kind of bad ass...

If Katerina doesn't make her save, you guys could be in serious trouble.

Especially since *I* know -Casters Die First-. Especially healers. ;)

(my daughter was ten when she learned this mantra...)

Well, it looks like Kat failed the save vs domination, but maybe her AoO will hit so hard that he loses the spell to a botched concentration check??? Eh? Eh?

A paralytic kobold can hope!

And Kat may have just done something *really* good :) Hopefully that Crit on the AoO is enough to stuff the guy's casting!

I figured I'd be pulling full medic duty in this fight.

If Kat can disrupt the spell, I can get Prazil back in the fight. Otherwise I'll have to try and dispel that first so she doesn't fill the rest of us full of holes, then get Prazil moving the following round. Then maybe I'll have a chance to give big V a face full of holy.

It looks like I have been with you all for just shy of a year :)

Thank you for letting me hang out with you all and I am enjoying the game :D

Just need to find some radishes for Prazil, a kick ass bow for Agnar and some serious therapy for Kereek!

We're glad to have you. Or at least we're not going to say anything otherwise -- swashbucklers are hardcore!

As for gameplay, there are still areas you've not explored in this area, particularly the round room to the northeast.

Kereek is happy to float the loot behind us or we can camp and go after them in the sort of morning.

Also, did we scrub the lich in four rounds? and he went first?!

Yeah. Though he's purposely not fighting optimally. Really it came down to that one round -- if he'd cast defensively, I think it could have been a TPK as Kat would have been dominated. Maybe Agnar could have freed her, but it would have been far more touch and go. Swashbucklers really do a LOT of damage, though!

Also, I've found these four or five-against-one fights never go as well as they should. I think BBEGs need a minion or two a lot more often than they get them. Really balances out the fight a lot.

True enough :) One BBEG fights are kinda...lame. If not minions than some edge. I think Vordakai was tough enough, though. His DR slowed Kat down *a lot*. Also, even if he had cast defensively, Kat's die roll was high enough she would have made the save (I know this as a function of the Forums here: if you use a dX, the roll is the always the same no matter so you can't 'oh, lemme re-submit the entry and get a better roll')

I think Kat's biggest strength in one-on-one fights is the Parry Riposte. Hope you don't roll bad to hit, or you're taking a free shot to the chops. Especially if you have iterative attacks that simply lack the accuracy!

But, her Achilles heel is her Will Save and her Fort is not much better!

Kat's original build was Rogue2/FighterX/Aldori1, but the ACG got at least one class right :D

anytime I've run solo bbeg fights, I've (for years now) given the bbeg 2 turns each round. I find it elevates the bbeg and gives him/her a great feel of epicness and it's also less work than sprinkling other mooks into the scene. =P

Are the actions in the same phase, or does the BBEG get two separate initiative counts?

I did 2 separate counts. Generally at the initiative the BBEG rolled and then again at that roll -10.

So, we've still get a little more to do in this adventure, but everyone can get a level. You should be 10th level now.

We're also at the point where we need to decide if we do indeed want to add a fifth. My inclination is still to do so. I'm not sure we have any particular niche we need to fill -- as noted earlier, you're a bit susceptible to traps, but otherwise, you're hard hitting and have good access to magic.

Did anyone have anyone else they want to suggest? We could do a limited recruitment if there are a few suggestions, or I can just open it up to the boards in general (or people can look through the open call for applications.

I will say, I'm quite pleased we handled this little dungeon as well as we did. Especially so in Prazil's case since his primary class ability is sitting by the front door.

As for adding a 5th, there are a couple of other players I tend to bump into who I think could be good additions to the group.

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In the even more immediate sense, I have a quandary. At this, our 10th level, Prazil qualifies for the Mammoth Rider prestige class. Given how un-dungeon friendly a Large Spike already is, is it worth going this route and having him become a Huge Spike?

I mean, Huge Spike + overland flight means we can get anywhere in dino style, but there are other things to consider than just that, right?

If there's any game that's more suited for outside monsters, it's this one, I think. That said, there are still plenty of times you're inside too.

Prazil, Keep in theme. :)

Kat's level adjustments:

HP: +9
Saves: Fort/WIll+1
BAB: +1
Swashbuckler Weapon Training: becomes +2
Skills:
Acrobatics
Diplomacy
Intimidate
Perception
Ride
Sense Motive

Prazil: "I can show you the world..."
Kereek: "Shut up."
Prazil: "Shining, shimmering, splendid..."
Kereek: "SHUT UP."
Prazil: "Now tell me, Princess, when did you last let your hear decide?"
Kereek: Screaming, "FIREBALL! FIREBALL FIREBALL! THAT AM WHAT KEREEK HEART DECIDE!"

Levelling Kereek Up:

HP: 1d6 + 1 ⇒ (4) + 1 = 5
Will Save +1
Skills: Knowledge Arcana +1, Spellcraft +1, Perception +1
+1 4th level spell/day, +4 5th level spells/day
+1 cantrip known, +1 5th level spell known

Regarding loot: I'd like the headband if possible. I already have a Charisma +2 headband, but that +2 to Intelligence and the ranks in Knowledge Planes would be useful for Kereek. Everything else I'm not particularly interested in.

Edit: any input on a 5th level spell? I'm pretty good for damaging spells and nothing 5th level looks any better than what I have. I'm pondering Dismissal or Teleport; any thoughts?

HPs: 1d12 ⇒ 10
+1 BAB (+10/+5)
+1 Fort
+3 skill ranks (+1 Handle Animal, +1 Ride, +1 Survival)
Gigantic Steed: Spike increases to Huge size, gains +2 Str & +2 Con
Wild Coercion: gain wild empathy (adding Str & Cha to check), can either demoralize (as intimidate) or make friendly (as diplomacy)

-Spike-
HPs: 1d8 + 4 + 8 ⇒ (3) + 4 + 8 = 15 (+8 is from retroactive Con gain)
+1 Will
+1 Skill Point (Fly)
+1 Feat (Skill Focus (Fly))
+2 Str
+2 Con
Size Increase: Huge (-1 to hit, -1 AC, -2 Dex, 10ft reach, improve gore to 3d6)

Note to self: new barding for Spike will cost 950gp + any enchantments on top of that
Additional note: Spike can now hit for 6d6+36

Kereek. Regarding a 5th level spell. Might I suggest this absurdity here.

On a more serious note, I think dismissal is a great pick and I also think communal stoneskin could be real dang good too. I think stoneskin in general is one of my absolute favorite spells in the game.

I looked at animal growth... The notion of a Gargantuan Spike flying through the air amuses Kereek. Might want to buy Spike a ring of feather fall..

Stoneskin's cool, but the 250 gp/person cost is nutty. I think I'm leaning toward dismissal, but teleport is fun... Choices.

Castles and mountains, man. We could topple castles and mountains!

Prazil, who are the additions you're thinking of? I can check them out.

Camris is a guy James and I ran into a while back when he ran a Star Wars game. I really like his writing and his style/approach to the game and think he'd be a solid and fun addition, provided he has any interest.

Jamzilla is another great player/GM I've run into multiple times. Kat and I are in several concurrent games with him presently (2 he's GMing and 1 in which he's a fellow PC). He's a strong writer and a good sport.

Last on my list of leapt-to-the-top-of-my-head suggestions is Leinathan. He and I bumped into one another in one game and he invited into several others he was a player in to replace players who'd dropped. Another really solid writer who plays great with a group.

I'd also recommend anyone from our RoW or S&S games, but I understand if there's a desire to spread your oats, so to speak.