HA! THACO's! Ah yes, good times yet not so good. No matter what class you played, you had to have the best armor so you could get to that -3 or -4 AC.
And if you were a rogue, you played a halfling. Period. By 5th level you were 95% in everything. There was practically nothing you couldn't accomplish. Except for Climbing Walls.
And I always thought the Monk was freaking cool. The unarmed damage they did was amazing when they reached their top level. Somewhere around 14 to 16th level. It was like 4d8 or something. Just freaking bad.
Just looked it up. 17th level/ 4 Open Hand Attacks per Melee round/ 8-32 Open Hand Damage.
Lol! At higher levels they also can Speak with animals and Speak with plants as druids. Too funny.
Man I always wanted to play a monk. :)
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I miss the whacky sci-fi nonsense of spells like distance distortion and duo-dimension, sometimes (the sort of stuff that probably drove the 'you got psionics and guns in my fantasy!' crowd nuts), but not the horribly mean monster design. Oozes that split when you hit them? Carrion crawlers with their eight saves vs. paralysis (which you generally had a 50% / 50% chance of missing *at mid level*) or die? Every single poison, even giant centipedes being 'save or die?' Ooh, they had so many 'gotcha!' monsters or encounters, it seemed.
Some of that still exists, with rust monsters and any sort of incorporeal 'create spawn' undead able to effortlessly annihilate a continent in a good night's work, and even the new 'gotcha' monster type of swarms, but it's not quite as prevalent in modern day monster design.
And the ultimate screw-you of Drow weapons and armor being awesome when used against you, and disintegrating into something you can not only not use, but not even *sell,* is gone. Woo! :)
I was a big fan of displacer beasts 'though. I miss those guys!
Also the entire Greyhawk, Kara-Tur and Al-Qadim settings, and select bits of Spelljammer and the pre-Avatar Crisis Forgotten Realms. :)
I so, so, SO do not miss weapon vs. armor factor tables. I don't know a lot of people who used them even then, but, wow.
Ditto rolling randomly to see what spells you had to start the game. Or attributes between 10 and 16 pretty much being the exact same thing (since most didn't add real bonuses until 17 or 18). Or the notion that magic resistance was 'normalized' against an 11th level caster, so that if you met a 90% MR mind flayer at 8th level, he had effectively 105% magic resistance against you...
Ah, the 'good old days,' when it was totally not even a controversy that female characters couldn't have an 18(00) strength. :)
Ah, the 'good old days,' when it was totally not even a controversy that female characters couldn't have an 18(00) strength. :)
Lol! That's right! Females couldn't go past 17, I think. And some races could only go up to a certain level in certain classes. You had to be human to advance as far as possible.
And the 18(xx) strength was great. You know, I had this dwarf fighter with an 18(90something) strength. So when 3.5 came out, there was this conversion booklet that let you convert your strength score. Well they had my strength score equivalent to 24 in today's rules. It was fan-freaking-tastic!
I actually got to run that dude up to 18 levels using PF rules. I finished up somewhere around a 38 Str and I think a 30 Con or so. That dude was a damage dealing machine. It was fun. :)
Of course, getting 18 levels in the beginning was discouraging: "Oh look, I only need 250,000 more xp's to get to 12th level." :P
And I miss the displacer beasts myself. And the Mind flayers you mentioned. Wicked creatures. That and beholders. Beholders were just freaking cool. Never came up against one though. I always looked at them and wondered, "How in the heck do you beat that thing?" Dang disintegrate ray. :)
Edit: Per the Drow equipement: Yeah that totally stunk! You know, even when we switched to PF, my brother still did that when he had drow in his adventure. I guess when you're old school, and he's far more old school than me, you're old school.
Lol! Save vs. death! I hated that. And if you didn't save, you die.
Could you imagine the boards explosion on the save or die issue? would be heard 'round the world.
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I'm a little schizo on the save or die thing myself.
I love that sort of easy come, easy go thing in Warhammer Quest, where losing the whole party due to some bad encounter rolls is good clean fun, or Paranoia, where hilarious over-the-top deaths are part of the whacky fun.
But then I hate it when I've role-played a character in a less beer-and-pretzels game like D&D or Vampire for years and they die in a chumpy undramatic way.
Yeah, it is a good thing there weren't internet messageboards back in the AD&D days. The angst would be unbearable, and the teeth nashing would have been heard around the world.
My favorite was an elven magic-user/thief. Even then I loved an elven magic-user, and I took thief as well to allow him to advance in some way past the level limits. He got killed so many times that by the time I retired him, he had a 6 constitution score.
I didn't play much D&D past the release of Unearthed Arcana. The game group I played with kind of migrated over to GURPS and Champions. It wasn't until mid- to late-3.5 that I started getting back into d20 stuff.
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We did GURPS (and Villains & Vigilantes, and Vampire, and non-RP stuff like Star Fleet Battles) by turns as well, so there were long dry spells with little or no AD&D.
I cajoled my Greyhawk-loving friends into a couple-years-long Realms campaign, since I was a hopeless fanboy, and then the Time of Troubles happened and it all kind of fell apart for me. They kindly avoided saying 'I told you so' and I got to fall back in love with Greyhawk. :)
Still, we technically still played in the Realms, since both Al-Qadim and Kara-Tur were located in that setting, and we loved both of those sub-settings.
Oh, can you imagine today's players trying to deal with the 1st edition Monk, with it's d4 HD and having to beat someone up every time you want to level (or lose experience!)? :)
From that era, I also loved Gamma World and Villains & Vigilantes (for which I had, literally, hundreds of characters written up, because I love super-heroes so much!).
I quit playing for about 10 or so years due to being 18 and the RL that goes with that.
Got back into it with 2nd edition and then 3.0 which quickly turned into 3.5.
Never played any other system though. I can barely keep up with this one(and I do mean barely) so there was no way I wanted to learn a whole new system. Just didn't care to.
And no. I CANNOT imagine any of these cats on these boards having to deal with a 1st edition Monk. That sure would be funny to read though all the whining though. :D
Man I liked Unearthed Arcana. That was a great book. A Cavalier could have like 3 ability scores just like the fighter had Strength.
Say the Cavalier had these stats:
Str 16(87)
Chr 17(57)
Con 14(68)
And after each level you would somehow add to that. Maybe you rolled the percentage again and added to it? I can't remember. There was some way you could add to it after every level though. Anyhoo, eventually you could have 18(00) in all of them.
That was cool. At least for us power gamers anyway. :)
And don't forget that 7th ability! Comeliness! HA! Remember that one! That's great stuff. Goofy ability. But great. You know, maybe they should bring that back, huh? That way, Charisma isn't the only one being dumped. ;)
Player: "Hey, DM, can I have a 1 Comeliness?"
DM: "Dude! The other 5 players have already asked for that! Why does everyone wanna be dog-butted ugly in this group?"
Player: As he just sits there with a stupid look staring at the DM, blinking, the silence passes for what seems like forever. Finally, when you gather he's just now figured it out, "So is that a yes?"
Ahah! Nice table.
I played Vampire et al. For a few years, then switched back when it was getting old and 3.0 came out (and 3.5 came waaaaay too fast...).
Vampire had great drama and easy rules. We had a lot of fun at the table.
I recall also the different xp per class to level up. That changed the whole dynamic as well. And multiclassing was so different because you mostly ended up with two classes only one level below a single class. And the bard at the end of the book! How wacky was that?! You needed godlike stats and had to retrain from one class to the next, loosing most powers and reverting to a low level chump. I never knew anyone who managed to do it.
But as Servayn said: different possibilities for different gendres and races?! That's a sign of the time. Like watching Mad Men...
The board change the dynamics of game crafting. In a way, it pulls towards equalization.
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The way experience worked, it was totally wonky to have one PC who was a 10th level wizard, and another one with the exact same EXP who was a 9th level wizard / 9th level fighter.
Such a huge difference from these days, when a 9th wizard / 1st fighter has the same exp as a 10th wizard.
The way multi-classing often undercuts caster level or BAB, I sometimes think that the pendulum swung just a bit too far.
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I'll be away from Wednesday morning until probably Sunday night. I may or may not have reliable computer access during that time (and definitely won't all day Wednesday, as I'll be traveling!).
Servayn has at least six more Summon Monster uses in him, and, if he gets a breather, might try to cast greater invisibility on himself to avoid some counter-attacks. It's *possible* that glitterdust or stinking cloud might affect them (both spells with no SR, if that matters), and, if he sees an opening, he might attempt a stinking cloud on a pair (which seems like it would be more effective than a glitterdust).
Wisps are actually less brutal than I remembered, as scary as the combat is going, because I thought that they could ranged zap people while hovering out of melee reach!
This is the first time I've ever fought Wisps. So I can't really comment on whether they are "less brutal" or not, but with the amount of damage Kriger has taken in just two rounds, I'd have to lean toward fairly brutal. :) I really can't believe how tough they are. Which I include their AC in that. We can't hit them on a 24.
A small little ball of light, and we're gettin' the crap zapped out of us! :)
Have fun! Thanks for the heads up.
LOL! Nice...
In preparation for the (happy) end of combat, could you give me your development objectives for the next 6 months? Keep in mind your leadership roles.
@markofbane: Go ahead and put this +1 Human Bane arrow (x1) on Kalsgrim's character sheet. I'm gonna erase it on mine. I ain't gonna ever use it.
As far as the next six months, Kriger will continue much of the same as the last six. Venture with Kalsgrim so he doesn't get killed. Drink. Continue aiding in making the finest of weapons. Drink. Plan on a brothel at some point(possibly secretly so Kalsgrim doesn't find out). ;)
And drink.
Oh! And sleep late. A lot of sleeping late.
Priorities man. Priorities. :)
BUT BEFORE ALL OF THIS MIND YOU... find a way to get Malaswyn back. Has GOT to be done. A healer is the lifeblood of Kriger. How many times has the healer saved his butt? Too many to count for sure. He'd be dead a dozen times over if it wasn't for the healer.
You know, so many times I hear in threads, "A cleric isn't necessary. Nothing wands and potions can't take care of." If Kriger's experience doesn't reinforce the fact how much a healer means to a party, nothing will. This pbp has done nothing but solidify my opinion on the fact that a cleric is most definitely needed.
They pretty much ambushed us. A few preparotary spells and that would have been much easier.
I could sell Kriger's +3 cloak. That's 4500g. Then all we need is 500g. The last thing we need to do is sell a weapon of Malaswyn's. He needs something to fight with. That's a great weapon and it's hard to come by those.
That weapon is over 9000g when sold. I say we don't do that and we just sell Kriger's cloak and then find 500g.
But honestly, why don't we do this:
Finally, the abadans were pleasantly intrigued by our endeavours. They offered to raise Malaswyn in exchange for a shrine in Providence, with a house for a priest and his acolytes.
If I understand correctly, we don't have to pay for anything... just build.
Why not go this route? I like it. Or does something about it bother y'all that I'm missing? Which happens far too often for my taste. :)
While we're deciding on Malaswyn's fate and the selling of your kingdom to abadarians (ok, may be a bit of exageration here...), I thought I'd bring this up.
Is Mythic Adventure something that is of interest to you? Should we work towards introducing some of it in this game?
Let me know what you think.
OM, I don't intend to buy it but if everyone else is interested then I can always get what I need from PFSRD.
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Ditto. My gaming budget is zero at the moment (sob!), but I can look up whatever I need to know online once it shows up on PFSRD or Archives or Nethys or whatever.
The Summoner is already kind of 'new' to me, since we started this game when it was still in beta testing, so I'm already exploring something new and shiny every couple of levels.
I'm a little on the fence with this too. I believe it would create a fair bit of GM work to scale the encounters for tiers, but if you are okay with that I am curious to try the mechanics of this.
I think it'd be fun.
Now markofbane and Raith(in the Jade thread) mentioned about it possibly being more work and that's probably true.
But I would say to that, if it appears to be more of an endeavor than you care to involve yourself with, then don't do it. It's that simple.
I'd be for at least giving it a shot, though.
You mentioned pfsrd. Do you think these would make it there?
I want to see how complex it is too. My head is swimming when I have to choose a feat for a character or create a new one. There's just so many... May be adding more will not be a good thing.
Being a hardback, odds are it probably makes it on the prd site as well.
Ok thanks, I'll ponder it some.
Another thing I'd like to discuss: How do you like the game so far? In particular, I would like to know whether you would prefer a shift in the ratio rollplay/roleplay encounters. Also of great interest to me: Do you find the fights challenging enough. Have the modules been a little too easy? Hard?
Let me know. I'll see what I can do. I can tell you I had planned a little scene in Restov between module 3 and 4. Mostly roleplay.
Seeing how I yakked and yakked in the Jade thread, I will not do so here.
As I said in JR, the battles are brutal. Never an easy one for sure. It's fun.
This is a fun game. Again, the retraining you've allowed has been a huge boost for me. By being able to adjust a few things around has made it a whole lot more fun. And if you think about it, it was only a few minor tweaks. But those tiny issues always nagged at me. I just couldn't stand them.
Anyway, the way we're rolling now is smooth as far as I'm concerned. Keep rockin'.
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Ditto on the big thanks for allowing retraining.
Having dead spells like unfetter that I picked for RP reasons (and then never used because I stopped using Ember anyway for a level or two) was bugging me, with so few spells known anyway. Grease and glitterdust and haste was getting a bit stale, so having a few more options hopefully will make Servayn's round by round actions a bit less rote and predictable.
Any fight in which we lose a quarter of the party, and Servayn ends the fight at 3 hit points is definitely not going to go under the 'too easy' category for me. :) It was pretty brutal. I frustrated myself by wasting time having Ember tamp down the area in which we were camping. Planning ahead or thinking tactically rarely works for me, and I keep promising myself to quit that, but I never learn.
Somewhere, Sun Tzu is laughing at me. But he's dead, so screw that guy. :)
Still, four (or five) level 9s against 10 Wisps is probably three or four APLs or CRs or whatever above us (can you tell I don't GM much?). Pretty epic win, all things considered.
Ditto on the big thanks for allowing retraining.
Having dead spells like unfetter that I picked for RP reasons (and then never used because I stopped using Ember anyway for a level or two) was bugging me, with so few spells known anyway. Grease and glitterdust and haste was getting a bit stale, so having a few more options hopefully will make Servayn's round by round actions a bit less rote and predictable.
Any fight in which we lose a quarter of the party, and Servayn ends the fight at 3 hit points is definitely not going to go under the 'too easy' category for me. :) It was pretty brutal. I frustrated myself by wasting time having Ember tamp down the area in which we were camping. Planning ahead or thinking tactically rarely works for me, and I keep promising myself to quit that, but I never learn.
Somewhere, Sun Tzu is laughing at me. But he's dead, so screw that guy. :)
LOL!! That's just too dang funny. :)
Still, four (or five) level 9s against 10 Wisps is probably three or four APLs or CRs or whatever above us (can you tell I don't GM much?). Pretty epic win, all things considered.
Yeah those dudes are bad. Looking them up, they have a +16 to touch! Ain't no way Kriger's avoiding that attack.
I've been looking at Mythic rules and they just rock! But, you gotta consider the source. I am a power gamer at heart and these rules truly cater to the power gamer.
They also brought back the Holy Avenger. Remember that sword? Yeah, it's back. It's called the Sacred Avenger. It's old school at it's finest. :)
In the hands of a paladin, it becomes a +5 holy defiant cold iron longsword.
If it's a paladin with mythic tiers, you can grant it the brilliant energy special ability on command. That just rockin' awesome. 202,630 gold, bay-bee! BOOM!
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I'm digging it. I don't usually manage to play beyond level five or six so to be in a well run level nine game is a treat.
Also this. With my old standby of wizards (back in 1st/2nd edition days) things just got a little crazy at higher levels, thanks to simulacrum / polymorph any object shenanigans.
It's kind of fun seeing the mid-levels again, with a whole new class.
I haven't look at the book yet, just the play test. I am guessing it will just be a few weeks before they get it up on the Paizo PRD and d20pfsrd.com. It is an OGL book, and they have been adding all OGL books to the PRD. Basically, if it is Pathfinder rules, it is OGL; if it is Golarian content it is not.
I think the fights have been pretty tough, and that is a good thing. And I think there's been a decent balance between role and roll. I've certainly been enjoying it!
Maps I've learned to make from Scipion. I use Inkscape and either use a "Ye Olde Mapmakerr" basic combat map, or lift one from the AP's pdf, or from the Internet.Lifting can sometimes be done by clicking on an image in the pdf and copying it, though it doesn't work for all of them. Normally, I use a pdf extractor that pulls out all the images from the pdf. I then either import it in Inkscape (embedded) or first put it in iPhoto to add some effects or crop it.
Inkscape is a vector image software. I create the reference (ABC, 123), blocks to mask areas I don't want you to see, add circles with numbers for bad guys. If lucky, I find an image on the internet and I can just copy and paste the image, then crop and resize it.
Then export and Photobucket.
It's long the first time, but it gets easier, and you can reuse most of the stuff you create.
Thanks for the positive feedback! Yes, ten wisps was pretty epic (touch attacks, fly while you're on difficult terrain, surrounding and having access to the soft center as well as the hard crust, immediately in the archer's face, too many to smite correctly, etc.), buuuut would have been a cakewalk if you had researched a bit more. Of course, you didn't know there would be ten ;)
About Mythic, let's first wait until it makes it to the pfsrd.
Now, there are four of you. I usually run with five, in case, but you've been pretty solid. Still, would you like to recruit a fifth member? I would put up a recruitment thread and manage it.
Let me know.
Now, there are four of you. I usually run with five, in case, but you've been pretty solid. Still, would you like to recruit a fifth member? I would put up a recruitment thread and manage it.
Let me know.
Yeah, I've been thinking about that. We've been doing well, yes. But I don't know what kind of stuff we have ahead of us. The main deficiency we have that I can see is someone to help us with the knowledge checks. You know I have a soft spot for sages (with Rauno) and it seems odd to not have one with us.
What does everyone else think?
You know, I thought about a 5th player but I think I'm good. I feel like we're managing pretty well with 4.
Please note I'll have a hard time posting until Tuesday.
Not sure yet how I want to play the Bal. Bear with me while I ponder. Sorry for the delay.
I will likely be unable to post (or very little) until Tuesday.