To give you a sense of what was accomplished (and what lies ahead), I've updated the map of Frieland.
Map of Frieland upon returning from Vordakai's Tomb
The Kingdom Campaign Thread. Malaswyn, please post in it if you wish to have it on your Campaign panel.
We will resume the kingdom building phase as soon as you guys are ready. I will try to post a list of Leadership Roles, for you to review, shortly.
Thank you for the updated links. VERY helpful!
Picked up Expanded Arcana for the 9th level feat choice, with the 2nd level spells create pit and phantom steed.
The only swapping out I went for was ditching displacement for greater invisibility (which is just a much better version of displacement, inexplicably available at the same level to Summoners), ditching unfetter for feather fall (a spell I bought to let Ember play, basically, so replacing a fluff choice with something that may at least situationally prove useful), and ditching slow for bear's endurance (never used slow, and bear's endurance is a decent buff for hit points and Fort saves, in a pinch).
Didn't know about Expanded Arcana. Nice!
Summoners get a lot of nice early entry spells. If you want my opinion, Slow is much better then Bear's Endurance, but it's up to you.
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I like slow, but between grease, create pit, glitterdust and black tentacles, I think Servayn has enough ways to slow folks down and / or impede their attacks. Plus slow is a will save, and, the way glitterdust has been failing so spectacularly, I don't think I want to put too much reliance on spells that do nothing at all if saved against. (I got the impression that my spells were having no effect at all on Vordakai, although he might have been an extreme case. Even the 'difficult terrain' feature of the black tentacles didn't seem to slow him down. So I'm feeling a strong inclination to spells that don't have a saving throw or that enhance allies, instead of targeting enemies.)
Bear's endurance seems like it would be useful both as a temporary hit point buff for Kriger and Kalsgrim, but also potentially to help someone survive poisoning.
Hard to say. There's the theory that any time an arcanist takes a spell that a cleric can cast, he's being dumb, but it's not like the cleric can be expected to take all of the good buffs he can take, or tie up all of his slots with buffs for others.
I didn't want to go with bull's strength, because belts of giant strength are more common than belts of endurance, so it would be less likely to be a stacking issue (and buffing Kalsgrim's strength may prove less useful, since he won't get an attack bonus with ranged attacks and his bow probably won't allow him to take advantage of that Str modifier to damage either).
Good points! Vordakaimwas a beast! Without Smite, I don't know what would have happened...
Yeah, that's why I went ahead and went with the Belt of strength. That way, it frees up some spell slots for you folks. Because I don't really see y'all using it on Kalsgrim. Not saying never, mind you, but with his strength being in ranged combat, I just figure the odds are high he doesn't really see that spell.
Now, Cat's grace on the other hand...
I didn't want to go with bull's strength, because belts of giant strength are more common than belts of endurance, so it would be less likely to be a stacking issue (and buffing Kalsgrim's strength may prove less useful, since he won't get an attack bonus with ranged attacks and his bow probably won't allow him to take advantage of that Str modifier to damage either).
Though I am considering getting the enchantment on his bow that allows for a variable strength. If for no other reason than if his strength takes a hit due to a spell or poison he wouldn't be as severely handicapped.
Though I am considering getting the enchantment on his bow that allows for a variable strength. If for no other reason than if his strength takes a hit due to a spell or poison he wouldn't be as severely handicapped.
Now if you do that then that changes everything. That'd be cool. I can't remember how the variable strength bit works though. Is it with any bow with a Str rating attached to it?
I do remember we talking about it taking a standard action(or something like that) to adjust it to the proper strength. I just can't remember how we get a bow like that.
I was actually thinking of the Adaptive enhancement since I would not want a bow constructed with the ability we talked about, but rather added to an existing bow, the Stag Lord's bow which is something of a trophy for Kalsgrim.
Hmm, so have both Kalsgrim and Kriger got belts of Giant Strength?
Might have to change some spell choices.
Okay, that Adaptive bit is sooooo freaking cool! I've never heard of that one.
@Malaswyn: Kalsgrim doesn't have a belt of giant strength.
@DW: Is it possible to retrain a favored bonus? I'm wanting to change a favored bonus(+1 skill point) to favored bonus(+1 hit point).
I'm fine with this Javell.
Cool. Thanks!
I think this is what you're looking for, bud. Here
Changes look good.
With time, you'll be able to identify most items, but the sphere of crystal.
Found on Vordakai:
cloak of resistance +3 (worth 9,000 gp)
headband of mental prowess (+2 Int, +2 Cha, grants ranks in Knowledge [planes]) (worth 16,000 gp)
ring of protection +2 (worth 8,000 gp)
Found in the rooms:
1,140 pp
33,000 gp
103,000 sp
25,000 gp in various art objects
Vordakai Spellbooks
In the end, I've opted for giving you the cash instead of figuring myself what would be nice to you. All sold (half price for items) (100,200 gp) and split four ways: 25,050 gp each
Okay, there is 79,700g for the stuff found in the rooms.
I'm guessing the stuff on Vordakai was kept?
If so, who has what? I recall Servayn taking the headband. Who did the ring and the cloak go to?
And if these items on Vordakai are being equipped, then that means we each get 19,925g each.
Unless the newly equipped items replace currently worn items that wish to be sold.
And I also have no idea how much the spellbooks are worth. So it's possible the total gold amount goes up if we decide to sell those if able and/or want to.
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In retrospect, we should sell the +2 Int / +2 Cha headband (unless someone specifically wants it), since it's eating up twice it's 'value' in WBL due to the extra Int over a standard +2 Cha headband, and is going to be freakishly hard to upgrade to a +4 headband over one that only enhances Charisma (the stat Servayn actually uses).
I totally forgot that Servayn would basically be losing 8000 gp. in 'opportunity cost' of items that would actually be of benefit to him by taking this headband, and also that it would be hugely more expensive to upgrade. Terrible choice on my part. I don't know where my brain was... (I still sometimes think like this is 1st edition, before Wealth by Level, when you could have a ton of useless or situational magic items and it didn't really count against anything.)
Luckily, trading it in for a +2 Charisma headband for Kalsgrim or Malaswyn or whomever would like such an item comes up to exactly the same value (since it effectively costs twice as much as a +2 Cha headband).
I already have a +2 wisdom headband.
Maybe a +2 item for Kalsgrim (belt of str or dex)?
In retrospect, we should sell the +2 Int / +2 Cha headband (unless someone specifically wants it), since it's eating up twice it's 'value' in WBL due to the extra Int over a standard +2 Cha headband, and is going to be freakishly hard to upgrade to a +4 headband over one that only enhances Charisma (the stat Servayn actually uses).
I totally forgot that Servayn would basically be losing 8000 gp. in 'opportunity cost' of items that would actually be of benefit to him by taking this headband, and also that it would be hugely more expensive to upgrade. Terrible choice on my part. I don't know where my brain was... (I still sometimes think like this is 1st edition, before Wealth by Level, when you could have a ton of useless or situational magic items and it didn't really count against anything.)
Luckily, trading it in for a +2 Charisma headband for Kalsgrim or Malaswyn or whomever would like such an item comes up to exactly the same value (since it effectively costs twice as much as a +2 Cha headband).
Okay, honestly, I don't care about WBL. I do understand it can be an issue if you're under it by a large margin, but it's really a 'whatever' issue to me. I just don't care. But if it's useful... why not use it? Unless, of course, it's just an item that's just flat out not wanted then that's fine. No big deal. We can add it to the items sold, sell it, and continue on from there.
What the heck do you mean by, 'opportunity cost'? What is that?
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What the heck do you mean by, 'opportunity cost'? What is that?
3.X assumed that a party would generally have items at least kinda / sorta near their wealth by level, and that the GM would arrange for treasure to be found appropriately (with the whole CR system based around these wobbly and ill-defined assumptions...).
That certainly isn't always the case, but opportunity cost is all about 'If I get this, what am I giving up? If I buy this widescreen TV, can I afford to go whitewater rafting with my friends?' The +2/+2 headband is 10000 gp. and would represent a 10,000 gp. 'share of the loot' to whomever wore it. If it's only providing 4000 gp. of value to someone who doesn't really need the +2 to the second stat, then he's wasted 6000 gp. of both his party treasure and the amount of gear he's 'supposed to have for his level,' so that he's priced himself out of an item or items he could use (either because he doesn't want to take more than his fair share, or because the GM is strictly enforcing WBL, which obviously isn't a problem for us, since Other Mastermind doesn't really ration out treasure that way).
In this case, I'm less worried about taking more than my fair share, since we've generally been pretty informal about that sort of thing and all want stuff to go to those who would most benefit from them (since enhancements to any of us help us all 'win' as a team), and more thinking that it would cost 16,000 gp for a +4 headband of charisma (+8000 gp over the +2 headband), but cost 40,000 gp (+30,0000 to it's current cost, which should be 10,000 gp). So, basically, this headband is going to cost more than three times as much to upgrade (assuming it can't be individually upgraded, to be a +2/+4 headband or something), making it a huge cash sink because it has a bonus effect that's not as useful.
It's kind of like if someone slapped 'bane (construct)' on your axe. It would now cost a ton more to enhance it's plus to hit and damage, or add some other enhancement that you might want. That would be totally sexy in a fight against a construct, but it ends up doubling the cost of a +1 enhancement that would apply to *everything,* which, overall, either eats up some of your money (that could go to better armor or hookers and blow or a collection of fancy hats) or results in your attacks being less accurate and less damaging against non-constructs than they could have been.
I made a lot of 'sub-optimal' choices earlier on, and the eidolon died constantly because of it (and I'm still finding him a waste of time, compared to using Servayn's summon monster SLA instead) and even got called out on it, so I'm trying to think more tactically and more strategically about this character.
Okay, that's cool. I was worried you weren't going to take it just because it wasn't 'fair' or 'it would prevent you from acquiring future items due to your WBL' or something like that.
Because like you said about us being informal about divvying out stuff, I feel it's worked great like that. Heck, that's the way it should be in every game, in my opinion. But I know that ain't reality.
Okay then. I'll add that to the sold list then.
That makes it 84,700g total and...
21,175g each.
Now, what about the cloak and the ring? Who claimed those?
Aside @Set: You know, DW said retraining is possible. Maybe there's something you wanna switch up about Servayn? Maybe that might help? I don't really know what you can do with an Eidolon. I know nothing about them or if retraining would make a difference. Just a thought.
cloak of resistance +3 (worth 9,000 gp)
headband of mental prowess (+2 Int, +2 Cha, grants ranks in Knowledge [planes]) (worth 16,000 gp)
ring of protection +2 (worth 8,000 gp)If so, who has what? I recall Servayn taking the headband. Who did the ring and the cloak go to?
The ring is going to me and my +1 ring is going to Servayn.
Obviously, we're still debating the headband. I'm thinking that stat boost items are great.
Servayn and I already have +2 items to our key stat, so we can sell the headband, get a +2 stat item for someone else and have 1k left over.
Nobody has claimed the cloak yet. My first thought is that Kriger gets targetted because he is always up in the faces of our foes so maybe he should have the cloak?
Interesting thoughts. If you want, we could rule that the headband can be exchanged for two stat boosting its once in Restov.
Sounds good? Who should have them?
Kriger for the cloak, definitely. Upfront, as he is, he's most likely to take any close in effects (like beastie poison or touch spells or whatnot).
Retraining the eidolon feels wrong to me. The gold-standard for cheesy eidolons is a humanoid with a ton of swords (since the number of weapon attacks isn't limited by level the way natural attacks are), but that's just totally not on-theme for me, and just a bit too cold-bloodedly 'optimal' for my tastes. I did take advantage of the retrain option to swap out three less-useful and / or 'fluff' spells for three tactically more useful options, which, by the rules, would have taken all of his 'swap out a spell' options up to 13th level, so that's a huge deal and very much appreciated!
Thoughts on items to purchase for Servayn;
+4 Cha headband - 16,000 gp. (Or upgrade old +2 headband to +4 for +12,000 gp and buy Malaswyn a +2 Wis headband for 4000 gp, which comes out to the same anyway. :))
Upgrade +1 cloak to +2 cloak - +3000 gp.
Wand of Magic Missiles (CL 5) - 3750 gp.
Interesting thoughts. If you want, we could rule that the headband can be exchanged for two stat boosting its once in Restov.
Sounds good? Who should have them?
Kriger and Kalsgrim: probably strength for Kriger and dexterity or charisma for Kalsgrim. They're better placed to decide.
And Kalsgrim saves aren't high enough as it is ;p
Servayn, you can upgrade.
Please post your shopping list with the total spent.
Over the next few months, there will be kingdom building, political discussions and a visit to Restov, annexing of Varnhold, exploring of the Varnhold countryside.
All this leading to the next chapter of the AP: Blood for Blood!
@Servayn: You know, I'd say upgrade your old +2 Charisma band to +4. Malaswyn doesn't need a +2 Headband. He actually already has one.
And as far as the headband goes, I think these ideas are all around solid:
Interesting thoughts. If you want, we could rule that the headband can be exchanged for two stat boosting its once in Restov.
Kriger and Kalsgrim: probably strength for Kriger and dexterity or charisma for Kalsgrim. They're better placed to decide.
I'd use 12,000g to upgrade it to +4 for sure.
As per the cloak, if you fellas are sure about Kriger having it. I can tell you that Servayn has the worst saves, though.
So if that's the case, I'll sell my cloak of elvenkind. Which would add a whopping 1,250g to the total.
So seeing as how we're not going to sell the headband, and only add my cloak of elvenkind, the new total is:
80,950g total
20,237.5g each
Let me know if I've got anything of this wrong, I've missed something, or any changes need making.
@Kalsgrim: C'mon now, here's a song that's bound to win you the day with the ladies, my friend. ;)
THIS is what I'm talkin' about. :)
Kingmaker: The Musical!
:D
I think this is the highest level character I've had in about six years: any suggestions for gear?
I'd say a big crown, but you should discuss it first with Kalsgrim...
As for music, that was really rough. Thanks for the mental and sound images!
Maybe I should get Kalsgrim some ranks in Performance (singing) before he looks for a bride? And then when I go crooning, I can get aid another checks from Malaswyn, Kriger and Servayn. We could be Kalsgrim and the Kingmakers!
LOL!!! :D Dude that would be so funny. I could just see it now. Man would we be the worst group ever. :)
That truly sounds like a band from the 50's or something; i.e. Danny and the Juniors.
@Malaswyn: Outside of upgrading your headband or anything else you might want to upgrade, check this out: Ring of curing
If you continue to scroll down, the Ring of inner fortitude(expensive though)and the Scholar's ring are kind of cool.
You could always go with some kinda metamagic rod as well. That extended haste Servayn has was just freaking awesome. I always just thought the rods were a 'whatever' item. Man are they stinkin' handy. I like 'em.
Oh and pearls of power. I think those are pretty dang handy as well.
Oh yeah, and maybe some type of wand.
I see you use herolabs. That's where I go to scroll through the magic items. There's only a million or so. :P
Anyway, those are few things I think could be handy.
Okay, I'm seriously considering this ring. Ring of foe focus That is a freaking cool ring. Seriously tempted.
@DW: When would all these changes take place? Like the trading of the headband and the upgrades to everyone's items. And the purchasing of items as well.
Mainly I ask because, if Servayn and/or Malaswyn upgrade their headbands, and Kalsgrim acquires his as well as Kriger acquiring one also, those items specifically will affect kingdom building.
I remember you mentioning trading the headband in Restov. Is that when all of this will take place, I guess?
Yes, more or less. Let's say after three months, so turn 16 would have the new stats.
Sounds ok?
Sounds good to me.
Thinking...
+1 Mithral Buckler (+2 AC for 2005gp)
Then blow the rest on upgrading bow to holy?
+10/+5 1d8+2d6+1 seems like decent damage for when I'm not casting.
Or maybe +2 Flaming would be better (still suits character too)
+11/+6 1d8+1d6+2
and maybe a campfire bead (720gp)
Nice to feel a bit more useful when not casting.
@Set: Do you have a +2 charisma headband? Which would give you a 22, correct?
@MoB: The Cha/Int headband was split into two. You have the charisma one. That should also give you a 22, correct?
Dude! You need to check this armor ability out. This is pretty awesome. Rallying
Man I hate fear. It's the worst ever.
I'm not sure about rallying: do you count as your own ally?
If you have a ring slot free then a ring of the sublime will make you permanently immune to all fear effects. It costs 2,000gp
Yeah, a ring of the sublime is pretty awesome.
You know, I just assumed the Rallying effect would count for the wearer as well. But now I actually have no idea if you count as an ally to yourself.
I swear, you overlook one word in a sentence and now the whole complexion of it changes. Amazing.
That would actually stink if it doesn't work for the pc wearing it. But I can see how that's a legitimate argument.
As per ability items I got this:
Kalsgrim: +2 charisma = 22 (+6)
Malaswyn: +2 wisdom = 20 (+5)
Kriger: +4 strength = 23 (+6)
Servayn: +2 charisma = 22 (+6)
@Set: Did you decide to upgrade your headband to a +4 one?
I hope all is well. Health is the greatest thing we have. My best wishes!
After this short discussion with Aecora, I would like to change the pace, and go into "down time mode".
Can each of you give me an objective for the coming six months, after which you will probably travel to Restov. Remember it's winter. Depending on the objective, I will ask you for some rolls or make some myself, as needed, and let you know what comes of it. You don't have to be together always during that time.