Glad we could be entertaining. :)
We're here all week! Try the veal!
For a while I thought you were working on an angle, trying to gain the cultist's trust to get information - but you are actually warming up to her.
That's like trying to make friends with a death cult, only these guys would cause nightmares in death cultists. And this isn't even a defector, she stayed behind only because of the disease.
I'm really curious to see how this new dynamic develops!
I've always been inspired by the following quote from the LOTR:
Frodo to Gandalf, speaking about Gollum: What a pity Bilbo did not stab the vile creature, when he had a chance!
Gandalf: Pity? It was Pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need.
Frodo: I do not feel any pity for Gollum. He deserves death.
Gandalf: Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give that to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.
And, of course, the story proves the wisdom of this out in the end.
To be fair, I've got characters that wouldn't have thought twice about killing her. Diedre's just not one of those.
I've always been inspired by the following quote from the LOTR
These guys are more like the ring wraiths than Gollum, though.
Civilized worlds often wonder why Devourer cultists bother worshiping a god of destruction when it offers them nothing in return. Yet what they fail to grasp is that nothing is exactly what such cultists desire. The Devourer’s destruction promises not just an end but a complete unmaking of all that is. It could consume not just the future but the past; not just the Material Plane but all existence. By advancing its cause, the grief stricken can literally undo past tragedies, making it so their losses never happened. By removing the afterlife, the guilty can avoid judgment. While priests of different sects debate whether this existence would be replaced by a new one more to the Devourer’s liking, their underlying premise is that the current existence has rotted, and it must be erased completely.
While the public thinks of Devourer cultists as sadistic cannibals, berserkers in gore-studded armor that raid ships for the joy of slaughter, this is only one facet of the faith. Such shock troops are called “wall breakers”—barbarians driven by sacred drugs to slaughter and defile, not for their own pleasure, but to break the spirits of civilizations. Complementing these are the “hidden ones,” pious sociopaths who move undetected among other societies, gathering information, recruiting, and planting the seeds of entropy. Priests and leaders can be from either choir (as the two traditions are known), and different congregations place different emphasis on these two tactics. Above all of these, however, are the rare “atrocites”— individuals who’ve broken free from the Cycle of Souls in order to mastermind destruction on a scale grand enough to attract the attention of the Devourer. While individual cults may be fractious, battling each other as well as victims in their scarred and twisted warships, all immediately bow to the will of an atrocite, in whose empty eye sockets and stormcloud halo they might find their final victory."
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I was wondering if a particular action of the cult had been missed by the party in the first leg of the adventure, but you guys did see it when investigating Solstarni's office: https://paizo.com/campaigns/JimblesDeadSuns/gameplay&page=38#1861. They didn't surrender her at gunpoint, which would've been bad enough - they physically beat her up.
There was one more data point about the cultists and Solstarni when they arrived here, but I don’t think Jimbles used it - I imagine we are getting a more “tame” version of the cult, more “goth anarchists” than a drinking club for serial killers, mass murderers and terrorists.
Yeah, but Diedre isn't basing her decisions on an extensive breakdown of the cult's activities from a game rulebook. She's basing it on her own experience (very little) and what Entiren's told her (not a lot more).
She assumes the best in people unless they demonstrate otherwise and Ralkawi hasn't had the chance to demonstrate anything other than a desire to continue living.
She also follows the philosophy that any given act must stand on its own for good or for evil.
We still need to properly interrogate Ralkawi about her participation, but it's already known the cultists tested the hardness of a cabinet using Solstarni as an ariete (Diedre was even the character that interpreted the crime scene). Even if she wasn’t there participating in the act, those are her buddies - and she’s been travelling with someone that was kidnapped after being brutally attacked, and would still be if she didn’t fail her fortitude checks.
I’m not saying she can’t be saved (start rolling those diplomacy and sense motive checks), but it’s quite clear she’s an awful person that has shown no remorse about anything.
This is actually the first time I've seen where she survives first contact with a PC group. I am, like I already said, really curious to see how this turns out - both inside the party, and when we find the next cultists. Will she try to get us killed, remain neutral, perhaps eventually help us? Betrayal is a powerful tool in storytelling!
Perhaps this is her Damascus Road Experience. ;)
Johnny is arguing from a Maslow's heirarchy of needs perspective:
It's more extensive than this, but the basic premise is that you start with the need for food and shelter, then move to increasingly more esoteric things (like morality).
After all, the murder jungle doesn't care whether or not you believe that imprisoning people is wrong.
Wow. I just noticed I'm the only non-good character in the group.
I didn't realize that Lauren was Neutral. Hmm ...
Dead Suns, as a campaign, is designed for first-timers. First-time players, first-time GMs, first-time game designers. Compared to later APs, I find Dead Suns to have more straight-forward encounters, simpler combat, few morally gray areas, and a fairly linear story. There are a few places, however, where the designers have left hooks to allow the party to delve into more complex issues if they choose, and this is certainly one of those.
There is this note for GMs: "Although this adventure assumes that Ralkawi dies or that the PCs kill her, it’s possible that she survives thanks to the PCs’ kindness and medical care. If so, [REDACTED]."
Anyhow, this whole series of conversations has been great to read. Sorry for the gaps between posts; I've been quite busy lately and I really wanted to give this bit justice.
There is this note for GMs: "Although this adventure assumes that Ralkawi dies or that the PCs kill her, it’s possible that she survives thanks to the PCs’ kindness and medical care. If so, [REDACTED]."
Really?!
You're going to feed me that little tidbit and then leave me hanging?
Phthtbhthbt!!
;P
You're going to feed me that little tidbit and then leave me hanging?
Phthtbhthbt!!
;P
You'll need to see this through to find out! First, though, is trying to prevent her from becoming plant food. Speaking of becoming plant food, I want to assure Lauren and Miraj and I won't let them die in the middle of nowhere from a gut parasite.
There are so many more interesting ways to die.
Neither will I. When they beg for it, I'll put them down painlessly.
I for one welcome my future Ksarik character.
I even went looking for the ksarik graft xD
Last weekend was consumed with grading late assignments. Now my time is consumed with a new term with some new logistics. I'll post as soon as I can, but it may not be today. I'm teaching at night for the next five weeks, so most of my posts will come during the morning on M-Th.
As for character death, I prefer GMs not pull punches, but if given a choice of ways to die, naturally the more interesting the better. I enjoy creating new characters almost as much, if not more, than playing the characters once created.
Yeah. I'm in the same boat. I'm a viking when it comes to characters. They'll fight to the last hp to stay alive but if they die, I still consider it a win.
Quote from recent new series, Penny Dreadful: City of Angels, that seems appropriate for this adventure:
"It's a wicked old world and it's only got you and me to save it."
I didn't get a chance to read the discussion above about the morality the treatment of Rawkawi. I'm playing Miraj with a fairly similar attitude toward people that I maintain, with the definition of people expanded to include all sentient beings, with the possible exception of the undead ones.
Moral choice implies that even if a person has demonstrated bad choices in the past, each person has the power to change directions if given proper motivation. So that means, in a situation like this, Rawkawi is given a chance to change. Of course, she may not choose to start doing the right things and then she'll have to be dealt with as we would any such enemy. But when she is helpless and the people who she was running with left her to die, it certainly gives her a strong motive to give us good information, if only for the sake of revenge. I don't necessarily expert her to become a saint, but even some information on the number, armament, and motives of the cult can help us out. Anything more would be interesting but not necessarily expected.
There is a long tradition of people refusing to be violent even toward those who are being violent or at least threatening violence. Non-violent resistance can boast some remarkable stories of people set to do evil and be violent being turned around when someone demonstrates a refusal to attack them, even when such an attack is expected and justified by rules of self-defense.
Certainly it doesn't always work, but I know many stories, including some from my own father, that point to the power of non-violence. In a role playing game, of course, such turning points are at the discretion of the GM. But if the GM wants to be realistic, he/she must consider that people can change. For a compelling analysis, I recommend The Power of Non-Violence, by Richard Gregg.
This also assumes a person is not a psychopath or a sociopath or otherwise mentally incapable of empathy. Such people need to be institutionalized for everyone's protection.
This also assumes a person is not a psychopath or a sociopath or otherwise mentally incapable of empathy. Such people need to be institutionalized for everyone's protection.
I'm sure the Cult of the Devourer attracts more than its requisite share of these. ;)
Or converts them to being one shortly upon arrival.
These levels are about the only time you actually have to fear poisons and diseases - and this isolated setting is the perfect place for that.
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I also have an alt in mind in case Irhok'zath falls down a cliff or something - he's ridiculously plug and play for the situation.
In contrast, Diedre plans to live forever. Any suggestions to the contrary will be met with singing loud enough to drown out any potential arguments.
Actually, Deidre must have been singing in her head while I was talking.
On a more serious note, sorry about the lack of posting. I was supposed to have internet on Friday, and then Centurylink decided that, nah, I didn't need internet in my new place until today! Isn't that clever?
She wasn't singing. It's just that Johnny wasn't saying anything that she wanted to here. ;)
=)
I also need to apologize for a dearth of posting, but for a much less credible reason. I was going to tackle it last night, but I totally bailed on you guys to crack up my new copy of the Starship Operations Manual. There's some great stuff in there! Hopefully we'll get to use some of it, if you ever make it out of this jungle alive.
I really like to use this image to represent this sequence of the AP: https://www.deviantart.com/ahaas/art/Alien-Jungle-446333107
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I had forgotten about the SOM coming out, with all the fuzz about the playtest. Time to put my organized play voucher to a good use!
That's certainly ... pink.
I still haven't finished reading Near Space.
I still haven't finished reading Near Space.
I like fluff/lore - but usually only get to it when it matters to some game I'm playing in or GMing. The Veskarium seems nice, but it's so removed from society and the APs... I'll probably look more into it when I roll a vesk character.
Severe storms in my area have knocked out power, possibly for days. I won't be posting until things get back to normal.
Stay safe!
Sorry to hear that. Take care of yourself and your family.
Yes, stay safe!
I was reading descriptions of the Derecho that went through Iowa, Illinois, and Indiana. Scary stuff. Hope things recover quickly.
Severe storms in my area have knocked out power, possibly for days. I won't be posting until things get back to normal.
My power came back on late last night. We're all safe; the only losses were an old elm tree and the contents of my refrigerator. I may not be able to catch up on posting until the weekend.
Please tell me that no ice cream was lost to the storm?
More seriously; Glad to hear you're all safe.
The storm was pretty scary looking out my window. The sky turned black at like 11am.
Fortunately my new place was not really hit bad. My old place was worse off (I think they were without power for a couple of days).
One of my co-workers still doesn't have power.
Man this year has been something.
I definitely can't wait for it to be over. It's probably not objectively as bad as 1968, yet, but it certainly feels worse than any other year of my life.
Ouch.
I think there is a phrase developing that will be a thing for a while to come. If something hits you hard, you can say "Boy, I really got 2020ed."
I do remember 1968, although I was just 13-14 at the time. It felt as if the integrity of the nation was at stake then, but in retrospect, I don't think we were as close to losing our democratic system then as we are are now.
I don't know about losing our Democratic system yet, but I think that people who were always talking about people getting more involved with government and politics have gotten what they wanted (probably not the way they wanted it, however).
Still, I this is the first year I can remember where at about 3/4ths through no one has mentioned a celebrity death on the national stage, so that says something.
I just keep repeating, "this too, shall pass" in the hopes that it will come true. I mean, I'm getting to the point where I'm nostalgic about my wife's brief cancer scare (it was nothing) and the Australian wildfires as 'simpler times'.
That sucks, Vrog.
These days we've become more and more dependent on our on-line personas and to lose access to one that you gain a lot from can be very painful.
I'm hoping that you didn't lose access because of someone's maliciousness and that you get it back sooner rather than later.
Unfortunately, I have some bad news. I currently do not have access to my main account. I have opened a ticket to Paizo, but from the email I got back from them, it's not looking like I'll be able to access my account any time soon.
I would have posted sooner but I didn't even think about making an alt until now.
As it's not fair to everyone to make them wait, I'm going to withdraw from the game. If I get me account fixed and the game is still ongoing, I'll reach back out to see about joining.
Thank you for letting me play with you all, and I hope you all have a great game!
That really sucks. I hope customer support is able to get your account restored soon, but in the meantime you're more than welcome to play with your alt account! We'd hate to lose you, even for a little bit.
Hope it's resolved promptly. It would be a shame to lose you, especially over a technical issue that they should be able to resolve.