I was going to update this tonight, but it's my birthday tomorrow and I drank a little too much to write an update post tonight. We'll see how things go, but hopefully I can pound one out in the morning.
Seems like a great excuse to me. Enjoy!
*throws confetti*
woohoo!
Woohoo! Hangover! :P
Gettin' some coffee in the tank and then I'll start typing.
Nah, it would have been full of misspellings and rules mistakes.
Or the occasional t56 hnjy gnofvbgyhjko from a hand slip, face slip, regurgitation and cleanup without editing slip, and the like. ^_^
Plus I imaging in game it would look something like this: LINK (last few panels, fans of FFVI will enjoy it), and I'd have to make at least one post reacting to the disintegrating fabric of reality in character. :D
Lol. Never played FFVI all the way through, but that was still funny.
Yeah, I think I realized a round or two too late that I should end my Bane. At this point I'm just using my persistent abilities (plus haste for the next 5 rounds).
Who do you all think should go after the patrol? Ophelia could easily catch them, but she isn't going to be taking down any without using a big gun.
It's gonna be very hard to catch them without teleporting. They are taking run actions to GTFO of there. They've already had two rounds to run, and that's from the edge of their vision. They started running as soon as they saw the camp burning and destroyed. Besides the fact that they are running away from the Veil, to the south.
How long is Lucero around? Can he follow them and take them out? Or see if they seem to have some destination other than Runforyourlivesville? (I don't know much about summoning so just let me know if that's a bad idea.)
Alternately, Jelani, it sounds like several of us together could catch them and mop them up with a single use of dimension door, yes?
EDIT: though if we'd need to burn a dimension door (or even a full teleport) to catch them maybe it's not worth it? It seems reasonable that they're just going AWOL.
Either way, I like the idea of interrogating one before finishing it off.
He's around forever. He's been called to the material plane and is Ophelia's b*tch. She's just nice about it.
As for teleporting, it'd probably take a round to get everyone together after mopping up the mess in the camp, and then it's gonna probably take a couple dimension doors to catch up, and then a bit of searching, a short fight, and then flying all the way back. I'd basically say it costs you a couple of dimension doors and an hour to get rid of the patrol. But yeah, they are just running away.
@Poppy: I think the winter wolves are actually intelligent. They are magical beasts as opposed to animals. I recall that it was mentioned that they saw Cho standing on the wall, but that was it. However, I agree with you everywhere else. Considering how well disguised Cho is and how far away from Irrisen he normally resides, I think him being seen by the giants won't be an issue.
@Everyone: I say we got with Poppy's plan. We can probably learn about the remaining giant forces and hopefully some stuff about the witches.
Poppy's plan is pretty good, yeah. I was hoping we'd keep one alive to interrogate. Who (if anyone) is going to go after the patrol?
Cho, Poppy's suggesting we don't need to worry about the patrol. I could go either way on it. The bet she's proposing is that (at best) they are just going AWOL and will never report back or (at worst) they report back but know very little about us, and give away little more than the flaming pit we've already left behind does. I can see that spending resources on them might not be worth it...but if we think there's a significant chance that leaving them alone gives up valuable info about us then it's worth pursuing them.
As far as interrogating them, I'm quite happy to start with Poppy's charm, and then try either Vega or Gror's intimidation.
I could spare a Teleport for the patrol catching group.
Well like I said, we're not actually going to run that combat, just everyone vote. If 4/6 want to go after them Ophelia spend a teleport and it'll take around an hour. You already have an unconscious giant in the camp to interrogate.
It's quite possible we've already tripped some magic alarm, or will as soon as we get to the gate. Delaying an hour for it seems like it could be as much harm as good. Leaning toward no, but happy to hear counterarguments. Gror wants to do whatever's most prudent (and is eager to get inside and continue toward the Torc, and the witches).
^
I was debating a little, but Ophelia would quickly agree with Gror's excellent point. After just seeing the bulk of Kostchtchie's forces get wasted, she is now more concerned about the witches and their magic. Between Gror, Cho, Dori, and Vega, the group is more than ready to handle any brute force tossed their way (in Opal's mind anyway).
Vega is against chasing down the fleeing patrol, just as he was against this side ambush. Seek the torc first, commit genocide against the giants who follow Kostchtchie and Elvanna later. Vega will point out that, if history follows its repeating course, any survivors will be killed by Baba-Yaga soon for daring to oppose her anyways. The risk that those fleeing are pulling a tactical feint and will actually return to try and flank us is, in Vega's mind, significantly less troublesome than the risk that going after them will be a costly distraction from their actual purpose and goal here.
He is also actually against interrogating any survivors. While he is against killing them all, he understands his responsibilities to Josiah, and thus will kill every giant still in this camp if he must... actually, that was something we decided isn't it? To make sure none follow us afterwards? Will still probably (try to) break the neck of the unconscious giant anyways, as a mercy killing.
However, interrogating one is, in Vegas mind, a slippery slope. Even having a captured prisoner of war could be considered dealing with the enemy, which was expressly forbidden by Josiah on pain of extreme divine retribution. The moment anyone says something like "tell us what we want and we'll let you live", you are now most definitely dealing with them. If someone says something like that but does not keep that promise, killing them in the end after getting the info we want (thus essentially using deceit to get around the "dealing" with them issue), then we have both lied and murdered a surrendered prisoner of war. Both of those acts are often considered evil (lying only a very minor evil, but evil nonetheless, especially when the end result is murder... and then the ending of a life that has surrendered and agreed to help us, even if that help was against it's will). And then, if we avoid phrases like that and simply use intimidation and physical force to get our information, forcing it to help us, we are basically torturing this survivor, possibly to death, but torture nonetheless even if we let it live afterwards. Even if all the previous points and our contract with Josiah were non-existent, Vega would strongly oppose doing this. He would rather go on to the torc alone (but more likely try to stop the person trying to do it, even if it means getting himself beaten up) than condone the act of torture, even if it had the purpose of gaining some information.
"Being good isn't easy. The path of righteousness isn't always the difficult road, but it is rife with difficult choices and hardships, and there are no shortcuts."
Normally Vega would be against killing any giants at all, even in the heat of battle. But causing the death of another in the heat of battle is, in Vega's mind at least, not the same thing as killing someone after it has been captured.
Heck, I'm not saying "don't do this or I walk" as a player. Not even close! Just politely disagreeing with the suggested course of action and giving my in character reasons why. Such a conflict played out in game may make for an interesting bit of RP if done so maturely (no hurt feelings in RL, all in character only). But that is how Vega votes: No to chasing the patrol, and no to interrogating the survivor.
That's three for no. One more and it's settled.
Geez, if Vega said all of that to her, Ophelia would start wondering if he was her brother reincarnated. That is a lot like how I envisioned Janus acting while he was alive. She already is a bit uncomfortable about how the group already marginalized him on their first big decision together (he was urging caution while everyone else was busy sizing up the giants for funeral suits).
As for Ophelia, she is strict neutral on the matter of interrogation ("case by case basis") because every situation is different. Some people/creatures she has met were genuinely trustworthy and could be let go. Others were not. It would be difficult to figure out what to do with this giant. Lucero would be urging her to just let him jet the guy over the elemental plane of fire. Just turning him over to Josiah (via LC's Plane Shift and hog-tying the guy with a note) would be a death sentence too.
^_^
Part Samsaran perhaps? Not sure of the timeline of your background... Vega may be too old for that... though still juvenile by elf standards, being only 33. Perhaps Janus became one of the paladin souls who volunteered to merge their essences with us, and found a symbiotic parallel with Vega?
*starts speculating uncontrollably*
...at the same time, the mental image of a giant, hogtied, with a gag in it's mouth and a note attached to it, popping into existence at Josiah's feet is... well it made me giggle.
:D
Gror very much believes that -- especially when the stakes are high -- the ends justify the means. (He believes it far more strongly than I as a player do). If he needs to sully himself a bit to be a better implement of justice, he will.
His inclination in this case is a bit of a good cop/bad cop routine with Poppy (and Pirate, if the hogtied giant makes you giggle, what's not to love about the Rainbow Unicorn saying, "Look, I sympathize with your dilemma, but that blood-splattered gargoyle over there's been having a very bad day...")
Gror might start out by honestly offering a chance for a good, clean death -- one stroke -- or on the other hand something a bit more unpleasant, maybe cooking slowly in that Wall of Fire over there. He doesn't get any pleasure from them suffering, but he'd be willing to make it happen for a tactical advantage.
He respects Vega's position, but hopes Vega could step aside for a minute to let Poppy and he ask the giant some questions. (Happy to RP this as well, when the combat's over).
I was joking since Vega would be far too old. Janus only died five years ago. Unfortunately, while the paladin idea is crazy awesome, I already said Janus was a Cleric of Shelyn (Ophelia will muse on how awkward it was for Janus to fight evil as a representative of the most neutral, well-loved goddess around). I could certainly settle for her thinking that Janus simply influenced the paladin who merged with Vega. I imagine Janus was like in 240-something (he was more of a father to Ophelia than their father was, lol) when he died, so he certainly had time to do it.
That or Janus was actually a closet Iomedae worshipper the entire time and took levels in paladin behind his sister's back.
heh, no worries, just having fun making wild speculations! :D
Gror: In contrast, Vega very much feels that the ends do not justify the means, and understands quite well that this means that "good" cannot have it all, nor does he want to be able to have it all. To him, such is the path to selfishness, and a road to the dark side (of the alignment pool). as is probably evident already (at least from these meta-comments). As for the good cop/bad cop, the concern is not so much... well, the needless torturous nature of most interrogations is a concern, but more viscerally there is the whole...
...and you will have no dealings with either the servants of Elvanna or Kostchtchie.
...issue. What constituted "dealings" with them? I as a player cannot even say, but Vega has his opinions, which in super short form is to not risk anything with them at all.
...but we shall see. ^_^
Well, what constitutes dealings would have been a wonderful question for one of the many times Josiah asked you if you had any questions :P
I love how not knowing where the line is is making you guys paranoid though :)
So it's a no to chasing the patrol then. When this round is over we'll wrap up the giants and move on to the Veil itself.
...would it be at all possible (perhaps not for this fight as it's almost over, but in the future) to have a key or legend on the maps? Obviously not for anything that would be a spoiler or is GM info only, but there are so many things going on I'm finding it difficult to know what is what, and searching through previous posts in the hopes of finding the one post where it may have been mentioned has been painfully time consuming (and not 100% fruitful).
So far as I understand it:
- big red circle = unconscious.
- big red ex = dead
- big red diamond = Shaken
- big purple triangle = ??? Stunned? Blind? Both? Neither? Maybe?
- Enemy surrounded by broken red/white line = ???
- solid red line with perpendicular arrow = firewall w/direction of heat
- dotted green line encompassing very light green tint = larger than normal reach/threatened area
- filled in circle/area tinted green = plant growth
- solid black = pit
- grey surrounding black = sloped earth angled into pit
If not, no worries... I know I've done things in the past where I've included fog of war, or even obscured some things based on what the characters would see... but looking at the markings and not knowing what it is that I'm seeing (especially for a creature directly beside Vega, as was once the case with the broken red/white line surrounding an enemy) has caused me some moments of "wtf?".
Anyways, it's just a thought I've had.
Gror is quite confident that interrogation isn't "having dealings". He's willing to consider even trading banishment[1] for information, though as said above his inclination is just to offer a clean death and threaten a painful one.
He also fundamentally believes in the strategic value of a cohesive team, and could be persuaded not to interrogate if outvoted. He won't go rogue here...but he considers that choice foolishly prioritizing squeamishness over maximizing our chances of success. (If he felt there was a lot of info to be gained, he'd be more resolute, but as is suspects they may not have a ton to say.)
[1] If there's some barren plane Lucero can send him to
Wait red circle is unconscious? I thought red circle was "entangled" or otherwise impacted by the vegetation?
Because Cho is targeting the red-circled frost giant down by the SE watchtower. T40 or so.
Dori is against chasing the giants, and will finish off any left alive. She'll at least be merciful in granting a quick and relatively painless death.
If anyone wants to interrogate, do we have a divine caster with talk with dead?
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Just a heads up guys, I'm finally moving into my new apartment over the next few days and will be painting the rooms and doing a little bit of touch-up work on the place. After tonight my posting availability will be a little sparse until I get settled in, probably Monday or Tuesday.
If anyone needs to GMPC me feel free. I'll be trying to keep up but I might lag behind a little!
Good luck with the move!
And I will be at a seminar Tuesday-Friday next week, not sure if I will get time to post or not.
I should be able to post intentions, but won't be able to easily post die rolls from the cell phone.
...would it be at all possible (perhaps not for this fight as it's almost over, but in the future) to have a key or legend on the maps? Obviously not for anything that would be a spoiler or is GM info only, but there are so many things going on I'm finding it difficult to know what is what, and searching through previous posts in the hopes of finding the one post where it may have been mentioned has been painfully time consuming (and not 100% fruitful).
So far as I understand it:
- big red circle = unconscious.
- big red ex = dead
- big red diamond = Shaken
- big purple triangle = ??? Stunned? Blind? Both? Neither? Maybe?
- Enemy surrounded by broken red/white line = ???
- solid red line with perpendicular arrow = firewall w/direction of heat
- dotted green line encompassing very light green tint = larger than normal reach/threatened area
- filled in circle/area tinted green = plant growth
- solid black = pit
- grey surrounding black = sloped earth angled into pit
If not, no worries... I know I've done things in the past where I've included fog of war, or even obscured some things based on what the characters would see... but looking at the markings and not knowing what it is that I'm seeing (especially for a creature directly beside Vega, as was once the case with the broken red/white line surrounding an enemy) has caused me some moments of "wtf?".
Anyways, it's just a thought I've had.
That is not Vega's plan, but it seems to be the plan of several others.
Vega's plan is to disable every giant (either by knocking them out for several hours... or killing them if it must be done) so that they cannot flank us when we get to the veil, and leaving it at that.
Yeah, I think we should hear from Cho and Dori about their perspectives on interrogating, after hearing Vega's and Gror's.
Cho would be against killing the captives on principal, but would not advocate too strongly against it if others pressed the issue and presented good reasons for it, his people can be harsh to their enemies.
He would, however, note that he can pry into the minds of the giants while they are being questioned.
I'm gonna post an update today after work.
What would Cho suggest we do with the captives?
Hey guys, I just opened up recruitment for Tellekkan:Colonization a new campaign I'll be starting. I enjoy playing with you guys and I hope some of you will do me the honor of submitting a character. Thanks ahead of time for giving it a look :)
Heya,
Just a little fyi for today... I'm actually stupid busy at work today. Non stop work this morning, and it is not likely to slow down at all this afternoon or this evening, and there is no guarantee I will be cognitive enough to be productive once I get home. If there is a lull I will see about making a post, but it is a more likely bet that I will be unable to post at all today.
(Yes, I'm working 14 hour day today, and most of it will be away from the computer)
PS: Vega still holds his position on the current events. He'd rather leave them unconscious and alive and move on then to converse with them in any way, and is (obviously) against interrogations. He believes in the evils of psychological torture as much as the evils of physical torture. But you already know that.
Anyways, I gotta get back to work.
I do wanna point out, that with the amount of nonlethal damage Vega did to them, it's the same as killing them. Unless he's going to come back and pour water down their throats he has condemned them to die of thirst while comatose.
Soon as I catch up on reading all my threads I'll post the results of the interrogation.