GM WhtKnt's Into the Borderlands, Table 1 (Inactive)

Game Master WhtKnt

Sorry, guys. Been dealing with some IRL...stuff. I'll make sure to catch-up and post in the next 24hrs. Feel free to bot me at any point if I'm causing a back-up

Sorry; I assumed that since the GM posted some results, we moved on to round 2. My bad!

Ooohhh boy. I was legit gone for two weeks. That's...a thing. You guys are, like, 1/3 of my social interactions. So that probably wasn't ideal. Wisdom: 1d20 - 20 ⇒ (11) - 20 = -9

Anyway. Good to be back. Don't worry, Neil. I'll get on dissecting your Chaotic "Neutral" ethnic-genocide again right away. You know. Right after I super-hypocritically toast this Orc for standing his ground against armed intruders.

Yeah, I went there...I don't actually have a follow-up for this faux bravado.Charisma: 1d20 - 20 ⇒ (11) - 20 = -9

I think the condescending remark kind of works well. I'm playing Neil as someone who isn't the brightest bulb in the box, so having him forget or not pay attention to little details like this really highlights that.

It's also why I made it to the best idea he could come up with regarding that locked door was for Aterro to be a human battering ram. :)

Happy 4TH everyone.

This all sounds fine to me! Nail says, ready to follow the lead of his smarter companions.

Aterro, you still have more than half your resources remaining, plus full armor and full health. And don't forget that channel divinity resets on a short rest.

I'm not saying that we can't win a boss-fight. I'm saying that as our resources decline, the ability to overcome it without any deaths deceases.

I refer to the start point. When the party entered this cave, a lot of resources were used in a retreat. One party member was added, and then there was victory, but many more resources were used.

It just seems, mathematically, to me, that since we're now below the gross resource point at which a battle was lost, and below a resource point a battle was won, that we can not, as comfortably, win another very hard fight as easily as the major battle we won recently.

If we were 5th level, and had coin in purse to RD, I'd be less cautious, but a death at 1st lvl almost always means a re-roll.

IMHO. YMMV.

We're not 1st level.

And 15 minute adventuring days suck. If you can't handle a full day, then don't expend all (or half, in your case) your resources so quickly. We've got people with fewer available resources than you do, and they're not b@~@$ing about it. Man up, War Cleric.

If you don't like it, don't play a class that's dependent on long rests. Warlocks and Monks get theirs back on a short rest; fighters and rogues can keep going all day long.

Pfffffft. Alright, if this were anyone else, I'd let it drop. But you're a friend, so, as a famous man once said, LET'S GET IT ON!

Neil you ignorant slut. We've all heard the saying that amateurs study tactics but professionals study logistics, but you wouldn't know about that because there's no saying about what washed-up has-beens study.

It's not called BATTLECleric. It's called WAR. As in Big Picture. As in An Army Moves On Its Stomach. As in Bullets and Beans. It's not about who walks IN to the meat grinder that matters. It's about who walks OUT.

This party was on its way OUT of the cave, swearing up and down that they'd need Fireball to get through the encounter that just beat them down. Then I showed up, and we F+~!ING WON. Then we won another fight, and then another.

And now you wanna keep that money on the table and hope that double-or-nothing is gonna hit again.

Fighters can't keep going if they're out of hit dice, and rogues can't...okay, I've never seen a rogue do something useful, so I can't really comment on that. But Warlocks can do all of not much in the healing department, and monks...okay, yeah, again, I've not seen many monks. Probably a reason for that.

This -isn't- a 15 min. adventuring day. This was a day where GLORIOUS COMBAT brought VICTORY from the mouth of DEFEAT and we have NOTHING to be ashamed off to consolidate our position and make sure that this winning we're on keeps going.

You know why Operation Market Garden failed? Spoiler alert, it's in the title of the movie: A Bridge Too Far. They said "why should we take only a reasonable number of bridges when we can take ALL of the bridges? What can go wrong?" Well, quite a lot, when you're ignore the _Logistics_ of the situation.

But that's fine. Go ahead and mount up and you charge them orc leaders.

Just don't expect me to take point.

Neil you ignorant slut.

Can't.. stop.. laughing..

Man, that brought a tear to my eye.

I know right?!?

Man, the classic SNL is THE BEST!

They did not give a poopy. You got Jane giving it to Dan with both barrels, and he just gives it right back.

Try to do that exact same skit today. You'd get yanked for so many "trigger warnings" it wouldn't be funny. (I...I'm still not sure what a trigger warning is. Is that something sexual?)

See. I knew wasting several minutes on that post would bait the Universe into bringing you back quicker, Ore. It can never resist a chance to waste my time. Just according to cake.

We'll just pretend that last post didn't happen

No worries, I liked the pizza guys idea; I was thinking the same thing!

Have we lost Morgan or are you lurking, big guy?

You know, if I were more of a tinfoil hat kinda guy, I'd think GM modified this encounter specifically to c*ck my crazily brilliant idea to make boss-man strip out of his gear. ¬_¬

Eh, whatevs, casting Command in a foreign tongue is probably a gamble anyway. *shrug*

Guess I'll just Bless the brawlers again. D4s for everyone.

Yes! There you are! Neil proclaims loudly. It's time to end your existence, filth!

Cast Guiding Bolt on the Leader.

[Dice=Spell Attack]1d20+4
[Dice=Damage]4d6

The next attack against him has advantage.

Move in next to Ore.

Brutal.

Maybe the dice hate Orcs too. Jesus.

Nah, nothing so sinister. I'd never intentionally alter my plans just to screw up a decent idea by a player. In this case, you caught the orc with his pants down, literally, because he was engaged in intimacies (and now that I've ruined your after-dinner snack, I'll be off).

A prayer for the soon to be fallen Chief:

three attack rolls fly / eighteen plus is always gold / bare flesh tastes cold steel

Max naked AC for basic humanoids is what, 14? Mega-RIP.

Seriously, somebody needs to get some water. These dice are on fire.

PHB on rolling for initiative: "At the beginning of every combat, you roll initiative by making a Dexterity check."

This is probably old news to literally everyone who isn't me. But, my general ignorance of elementary game mechanics aside, it's actually extremely relevant. It should mean that I can use Guidance to boost the party's initiative.

Guidance "[...] the target can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to one ability check of its choice.

This would have been EXTREMELY helpful here. Probably could have saved Ore from losing 2/3 of his HP. We lost the initiative to the Chief by 1 freaking point.

@GM

So, yeah. This Guidance on initiative rolls is something I'd like to turn into a sort of passive by just looping the spell.

Either way that you want me to do it -- 1 casting for the party; in-line with you how you roll initiative, or 1 casting for each party member; in-line with the mechanics of the spell -- Theo should be able to maintain this as a team-wide buff. Starting after this fight, of course.

I can see that your heart is in the right place, but the mechanics and atmosphere of the thing seem to be against it.

For starts its a touch spell, which means we'd always have to be in phalanx for it to count. Ore was probably away from you for at least a minute, so don't beat yourself up over it.

Also, it's 1 action, for 1 creature. Idiosyncratically that means that we couldn't do anything or move anywhere until you had done the buff, and then we only have about 30 seconds until the first person termed out.

Oh, whoops, okay, I just saw the big thing, and I should've seen this first. Okay, yeah, it's a Concentration spell, and you can only maintain Conc on 1 spell at a time.

Hence, if you wanna pick one person who would like the init. more, go with that.

Honestly, it's probably easiest if you just say that, if nothing else is going on, you maintain it on yourself.

(Ballz, I think half the party are spellcasters that do/could have this spell, so we could all just say we maintain it.)

Oh, whoops, okay, I just saw the big thing, and I should've seen this first. Okay, yeah, it's a Concentration spell, and you can only maintain Conc on 1 spell at a time.

This is what I get for checking spell requirements online instead of going straight to the source.

Oof, F, and RIP

Oddly enough, despite not knowing basic things like how init checks work, I did have the foresight to see if Guidance was a concentration spell or not. Ya know, for all the good it did.

Hence, if you wanna pick one person who would like the init. more, go with that.

Honestly, it's probably easiest if you just say that, if nothing else is going on, you maintain it on yourself.

(Ballz, I think half the party are spellcasters that do/could have this spell, so we could all just say we maintain it.)

The problem here is that GM hasn't been rolling individual init, just party init. I'm not trying to sextuple his workload just to get an extra 1d4 on init checks.

This does raise an interesting question, GM. And feel free to say I'm probing too deeply into the meta. Whose DEX is used for the party init rolls? Party average? The highest? Is the idea that if the fastest person in our group can move first, it allows the rest of us to follow on his heels?

Flash Poll: Would you be against taking a long weekend (2-3 days), in-game, when we get done clearing this cave?

I'll be upfront. This request is wholly self-serving. I'm more than happy to help come up with suggestions for what the rest of you can do with the time, but this originates from a place of self-interest.

Back when we had a more consistent and more active posting pattern, GM set my limit for recalling arcane spells at 1 attempt per week. At the time, this was great: a reasonable restriction with a clear path to my goal.

That was 10 months ago IRL, while I'm reasonably sure that not even 48 hours has passed in-game. An extra-large bummer now that Sand won't be here to help make the checks when they do come. Without an extended break, I may die of old age before Theo is able to recall any of his arcane spells.

Obviously, we can't just linger around town for days at a time waiting for an imaginary +1 timer to go off. That said...I would appreciate it if, just this once, we could linger around town for a couple of days waiting for an imaginary +1 timer to, you know...tick down a bit.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have no objection to that. Also, the initiative thing: one of the two groups preferred it, so I've been using it that way (using Ore's initiative modifier). If you folks prefer individual init, I can certainly do that.

This spell caster is fine for a break. Then I will look up the rules for making scrolls and such, if the GM allows for such things. Just need gold....lots of gold ;o)

@Theo, I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you referring to the Arcane Recovery skill? The one that lets you get back spells after a short rest? Or just, like, the normal long-rest that lets all the spellcasters get back all of our spells.

I realize this might just be me, but spent a LOT of my youth playing 1st Ed where the GM had this f~~~ed up in-house rule where it took 15 mins per spell level, per spell, to get it back.

We spent WEEKS waiting for our archmage to get spells back.

This is one of the reasons I am SO VERY GLAD 5E did away with all of that.

If this is one of GM WhtKnt's things, I am _absolutely_ going to argue against this. 5E is wonderful for a reason and we should preserve that reason.

Also, Neil got b&%$~y at me for wanting to take an _8-hour_ break, so you dam skippy Imma put up flak against a 48 hour one. ^_^

@Theo, I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you referring to the Arcane Recovery skill? The one that lets you get back spells after a short rest? Or just, like, the normal long-rest that lets all the spellcasters get back all of our spells.

I realize this might just be me, but spent a LOT of my youth playing 1st Ed where the GM had this f*$@ed up in-house rule where it took 15 mins per spell level, per spell, to get it back.

We spent WEEKS waiting for our archmage to get spells back.

This is one of the reasons I am SO VERY GLAD 5E did away with all of that.

If this is one of GM WhtKnt's things, I am _absolutely_ going to argue against this. 5E is wonderful for a reason and we should preserve that reason.

Also, Neil got b$&++y at me for wanting to take an _8-hour_ break, so you dam skippy Imma put up flak against a 48 hour one. ^_^

Sorry, Attero. I meant to throw in a quick explanation for you. I knew you weren't here when we set this up. My bad.

This isn't about regaining spent spells, it's in regards to my character's background.

I started off as a LV1 Cleric who was originally a less-than talented Wizard [story in my profile]. When I leveled, I multiclassed into a 1|1 Wiz-Cler, in order to better reflect Theo's lore. Problem is, I don't have my spellbook. So, I needed a way to get access to my higher-level spells without having them just handed to me.

GM allowed me to attempt to recall info about an individual spell once per week. That was 10 months ago irl, and not even 48 hours in-game.

This break would, potentially, give me more spells than I have had to work with overall. Right now, I only have access to level 1 Cleric spells,

One thing that this shakes loose in my mind is that you never 'unprepare' spells. I don't recall if this was part of the discussion on the first go-round, but strictly speaking, changing your list of prepared spells is something you can choose to do after a long rest.

Likewise, after a long rest, you regain your slots (no choice on that one).

If you choose not to change your list, you keep the same list of prepared spells.

So unless something else went down, a wizard who lost their book wouldn't be without spells, they'd just be unable to change their list from whatever it was when they lost it.

Make of it what you will.

One thing that this shakes loose in my mind is that you never 'unprepare' spells. I don't recall if this was part of the discussion on the first go-round, but strictly speaking, changing your list of prepared spells is something you can choose to do after a long rest.

Likewise, after a long rest, you regain your slots (no choice on that one).

If you choose not to change your list, you keep the same list of prepared spells.

So unless something else went down, a wizard who lost their book wouldn't be without spells, they'd just be unable to change their list from whatever it was when they lost it.

Make of it what you will.

Hmm. That's true. Guess I kind of figured the tome was required for casting, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I did choose prepped spells when I leveled, so I do have a couple of 1st level Wizard spells at my disposal.

That's good to know. Thanks, Ore.

@Theo: Why don't you have your spellbook? Is there an in-game reason for this, or did the GM fiat that the level didn't carry with it the equipment?

That seems pretty low to say a lvl 1 character doesn't have this thing that it would take MUCH monies to replace.

Also, Neil got b&~+%y at me for wanting to take an _8-hour_ break, so you dam skippy Imma put up flak against a 48 hour one. ^_^

:P

@Theo: Why don't you have your spellbook? Is there an in-game reason for this, or did the GM fiat that the level didn't carry with it the equipment?

That seems pretty low to say a lvl 1 character doesn't have this thing that it would take MUCH monies to replace.

This was my call, initially. I started as a level 1 Cleric, not a Wizard. So, _technically_, I was a level 2 character (1wiz 1cler) when I finally needed the spellbook.

Theo had abandoned his arcane master 10 years prior to the start of the game. He just up and left with the clothes on his back when Mystra came to him one day. So It didn't make any narrative sense for Theo to still have his spellbook with him now.

I'm kind of big into the RP elements of these games. I'm the guy who mods sleep, food, shelter, and medical needs into his Skyrim playthroughs. You know, after I unpause all of the menus (Dark Souls status). If something doesn't make sense, I generally force it to make sense.

Speaking as a guy who mods -out- needs for sleep and equipment breakdown, I'm against those thing because if I really want the devil to be in the details, I just look at Real Life...and I long for escapism again. As a wise man once said, "the genre is called "Fantasy". (I even stopped playing games in Hard Mode because I have better things to do.)

Also, this is, objectively, your RP elements dictating the action of the party, and I'm against that as a rule.

If you want to do this once to get all the knots out of your rope and get your spellbook up, that's fine, but I'd like to not see this again going forward. And if you wanna be a bit more optimum in your build and execution to make up for it, please, all the better.

(You want hyper-details? Go find more Pathfinder games. 5E has been called "D&D for busy people".)

First things first:

If you want to do this once to get all the knots out of your rope and get your spellbook up, that's fine, but I'd like to not see this again going forward.

Your objection is noted. Thank you for your input.

Speaking as a guy who mods -out- needs for sleep and equipment breakdown, I'm against those thing because if I really want the devil to be in the details, I just look at Real Life...and I long for escapism again.

We just differ on which parts of the escapism we choose to focus on. You seem to appreciate a complete unshackling from any real structure. I personally like the idea of having a wider range of options for problem-solving, or simply being capable of supernatural feats.

Little things like food, sleep, and degrading gear doesn't kill my escapism because I can still solve most my problems by reigning down meteors from on high. Something I am decidedly incapable of IRL.

As a wise man once said, "the genre is called "Fantasy". (I even stopped playing games in Hard Mode because I have better things to do.)

1. I literally don't have better things to do. Like, at all.

2. Playing on anything less than the hardest difficulty basically turns any game into a movie for me. I'm not there to watch a movie, I'm there to be challenged on a specific set of skills.

Also, this is, objectively, your RP elements dictating the action of the party,

1. No, it isn't. I _asked_ if people were ok with this for a reason. Specifically not to force the issue. I'm completely willing to continue playing without retrieving my book. This doesn't have to impact anyone.

2. The amalgamation of individual RP is literally what creates the sub-narrative of an individual campaign. Sure, GM is working from a campaign book to tell a macro story, but the unique feel and adventures of a specific group are decided by the actions of individuals.

And if you wanna be a bit more optimum in your build and execution to make up for it, please, all the better.

(You want hyper-details? Go find more Pathfinder games. 5E has been called "D&D for busy people".)

Implying I need to make up for something that was GM-approved months before you got here is kind of taking the piss, my dude.

I also don't appreciate the "wanna play a certain way, go somewhere else" attitude. Our group has been very amenable to changes and modifications as the game has progressed. There is no reason we can't do the same here.

Sorry for your loss, WhtKnt.

Sorry for you loss as well. Take what time you need if you want.

Happy to take a magic weapon, and Mace is simple which makes it a Monk weapon, I believe. Though I'm happy to yield if someone wants it more!

Mace or Shield, not item I care to have.

@Neil i believe Morgan is also a shield person

Eh. If he wanted any treasure, he should have posted during the fight. :)

Noted.

Does the map have an option to only set some places to fog of war? Or is an all or nothing thing?

I'd be intested to know how much of this cave we have yet to explore, but its hard to tell without a map.

Is there a way to have one "strategic" map that gives a broad impression of where we've been and another "tactical" map that is like the one that we're currently using?

Like, I'd like to finish this cave and then have a long rest, as I imagine that, at most, we'd have one or two rooms left, but I've no idea as we have no real map going.

You have investigated all of this cave. I'm considering dropping the VBL (vision blocking layer) and switching to good old-fashioned fog of war. That would allow you to see where you've been and I could still hide sections.

I think the only limiter is that one needs to be able to cast a spell to write it in their book. So until wizard level 5 that scroll can't be written into a book.

I believe that you are correct in that assessment.

Yes re-reading about spell books, that is what I got as well Ore.

I think we have all learned that I am the least experienced here, objectively. So, have some salt grains before continuing...... (they're white in dark mode)

I can't find anything that says you need to be able to cast the spell in order to copy it. Unfortunately, I did find something that says we have to gamble the scroll when we copy it, regardless of level.

.

On the subject of spellbooks themselves, the PHB says:

Copying a spell into your spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the wizard who wrote il. You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation.

First off, "practice the spell" can't mean literally casting the spell over and over. You lose a scroll after the first casting.

With that possibility out of the way, nothing here outright states you need to be able to cast the spell. Being able to copy higher level spells could explain the process' apparent trial-and-error methodology.

For each levei of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it.

The SRD expands on scrolls specifically:

A Wizard spell on a spell scroll can be copied just as Spells in spellbooks can be copied.

Ultimately, the level question is decided by GM's ruling in regards to copying spells writ-large.

When a spell is copied from a spell scroll, the copier must succeed on an Intelligence (Arcana) check with a DC equal to 10 + the spell’s level. If the check succeeds, the spell is successfully copied. Whether the check succeeds or fails, the spell scroll is destroyed.

Regardless of level, we have to make a DC 13 INT check in order to copy this Fireball spell, and we lose it regardless of the outcome. The same is true for trying to cast the spell without access to its spell slot (level 3 in this case).

----------------------------------------------------------------

My take:

We won't have access to level 3 spells for another 2 character levels. And I won't lie, I'm not a huge fan of having such an all-or-nothing gambit during a proper emergency. I generally like my "oh, s+&$!" buttons to be a little more reliable. So, Ya'Bo is right, copying is the way to go.

If GM agrees with my findings...

Ya'Bo, you have the highest INT between the two of us. With a double guidance buff, your minimum roll is 8 [5+1+1+1] -- 5 shy of the 13. You would have something like a 75% chance of making it, simply by rolling 6 or more on the initial d20. I'm not smart enough to factor in the 2d4 from Guidance, but they only make things better.

Two heads are also, generally, better than one in academic endeavors. Perhaps our supremely benevolent (and unfairly good-looking) GM would even allow us Advantage on the check for working together.

Errr, sorry Theo. I'll cite my sources next time.

Per the "Your Spellbook" section on the wizard page, you can only copy spells into your book if they're of a level you can prepare. You can only prepare spells of a level you have slots for. So level 3 spells aren't available to a wizard until she hits 5th level.

I would suggest feeling free using the scroll in an emergency (or even in a less-dire circumstance) as it will be quite a while in game until 5th, and spending a spell known on Fireball isn't the worst thing that one can do.

Artist rendition of me refreshing the game thread while being too lazy to get RP going again.

Ugh. More than a year in and I'm still finding silly little noob errors in my profile. Insight isn't one of the skills eligible for the Blessing of Knowledge buff.

@GM How do you want me to handle this?

I could swap one of my BoK-eligible background perks with Insight. Background stats seem the most malleable.

Or, to ensure this error has the least overall impact on other aspects of my build, I could just live with one BoK skill.

Whatever you want to do here, I'll make the proper adjustments asap.

So in very fun and scary and exciting news, my wife just had a baby (our first) and we'll be bringing him home today or tomorrow hopefully.

I'm not planning on dropping any games as I'll be off work for the next month (is this hubris? Maybe!) but if it's not too much trouble, please feel free to bot me as needed in the immediate future. Thanks!

Enjoy the lack of sleep. And remember spend every day with you child as if it is your last, in time you will long for the days when you could just hold them in your arms.

Read the book "The Happiest Baby on the Block." It about putting your child on a ridged schedule, our child was able to sleep through the night in about 6 weeks after she was born. But you must be very ridged and don't get off the timing.