Kasatha 4-weapon fighting build

I'm making a character for a level 16 game, where we were told to feel free to optimize because it'll be a tough game (And there's already a Divine Archer/Paladin). So rather than go for my usual weakest-character-in-the-party build, I thought I'd try something I've always been curious on...

Kasatha with 4 Kukris. However, aside from realizing that I need the two-weapon feat tree, the improved critical feat I can't figure out where I want to go from there. Fighter seems the obvious choice, but also seems a bit boring, and I don't really know which feats to take other than those listed and Weapon Finesse.

Rogue lacks the boredom, and lets me add my Dex to all 4 attacks for damage at 3rd level+, but as a 2/3 BAB seems like I might be struggling to hit... and dependent on sneak attacks (which isn't a terrible thing).

Hunter seems interesting since I seem to be feat-light... alloing me some spells and such.

I have a feeling that I can't support that Swashbuckler might be a good choice, but no guns allowed in our game.

Can anyone help me with a really great 4-weapon build? (I do not want to go Archer, despite the Kasatha archetype available)

go gunslinger or something like that

Oh? Gunslingers are good with Kukris, and without guns?

it would be with guns but if you truly want to use kukris go tempered champion paladin with a deity with kukri as their favored weapon and half giant and get that sweet 3d6 base damage per kukri

pretty sure you need a different feat like multi fighting or something, can't quite remember the name to 4 weapon fighting with a kasatha and there isn't an improved and greater version so its not really much better than two weapon fighting with 2 arms.

The problem them becomes that the typical classes that can do strength based two weapon fighting builds (slayer and ranger) can't with this one because they can't ignore the pre-requisites for that feat.

So either you need both strength and dex or a way to get dex to damage, two weapon grace exists and is garbage and also I don't think would work with the 4 armed version of two weapon fighting.

leaving you with 3 levels of rogue or 4 agile kukri's but you're starting at 16 so maybe you can afford that.

pretty sure Swashbucklers like having a free hand so maybe thats not a good idea.

So my advice is do a 3 level unchained rogue trick and then go somwehere else (I believe their is a barb or bloodrager that boosts dex in a rage, or maybe a vivisectionist might be worth it)

or drop the 4 arm thing and try and do something else.

lots and lots powerful things one can do at level 16, know what the rest of the party is?

it would be with guns but if you truly want to use kukris go tempered champion paladin with a deity with kukri as their favored weapon and half giant and get that sweet 3d6 base damage per kukri

did you read the OP? its a no guns campaign and there is already a paladin .-.

then bolt ace is the next best thing and so what if there is already a paladin if they both have different rolls in combat one melee the other ranged shouldn't make a difference

then bolt ace is the next best thing and so what if there is already a paladin if they both have different rolls in combat one melee the other ranged shouldn't make a difference

I'm going to guess that it's a no on reading the OPs post, There is already a ranged paladin, they are not looking for another ranged character.

For something a little different, try a medium.

Champion's spirit bonus on attack rolls is equal to what you lose in BAB, and can be boosted with the spirit focus feat. Champion's spirit bonus and seance boon on damage rolls is not reduced for off-hand attacks. You also get a bonus attack that stacks with multiweapon fighting, and the ability to move your speed and full attack. Oh, and a bit of psychic casting (which you can use with all 4 hands full).

And if you expect an intrigue-heavy day ahead or need divine or arcane casting for a day, you can channel another spirit instead.

I recommend the relic channeler archetype, as it frees you from hunting down a specific location to channel your spirit. Object reading is also a fun little ability.

I mean there are tons of ways to do melee well I'd like to know if the OP is married to kasatha or Kukri before suggesting options a little less clunky than multi weapon fighting

Not married, no, but am married to a "whirlwind of death" character concept. I'd ike 6 limbs instead of 4... am considering a mutagen warrior or something... As for the kukri, that's because theyre the best weapon for a high dex character, but considering also 4 wakizashi and 2 no-dachi for when whirlwind isn't enough...

BTW, love the Medium idea, and will try it out, but pretty sure in the end, I'll have the 3 levels of Rogue going on... at least.

There are different opinions on how fighting with weapons in 3+ hands works. I'd get the details of how that is going to work from your GM before doing anything else.

For example, can you just use the Two-Weapon Fighting tree and automatically get 4 weapon attacks out of that (as you seem to be assuming)? Or would that only allow you to make attacks with two weapons? Do you need to take the Multiweapon Fighting feat from the Bestiaries? If so... are there greater/improved versions of that or does it work with the greater/improved Two-Weapon feats? Et cetera?

The way I do it, is that Multiweapon Fighting gives you one weapon attack at full BAB minus normal two weapon penalties for EACH 'off hand', you can substitute MWF for TWF to meet pre-reqs, and the Improved/Greater TWF feats allow you to make iterative attacks with ONE off hand... so max 4 main hand attacks, 3 attacks with one off hand, and one attack with each remaining off hand. Slightly different interpretations of the rules can lead to either many more or far fewer attacks.

Once that is sorted out you are presumably going to want something that does decent damage with one-handed attacks... UnRogue seems like a good choice. If you can work out one way concealment (e.g. darkness + Darkvision, Eversmoking Bottle + Goz Mask, etc) then any BAB issues should go away and you'd be getting sneak attack regularly.

Well I think the Kasatha doing multiweapon fighting would probably do best as a barb or a fighter oddly.

You only need 13 Dex to do multi weapon fighting so you can actually make it a strength based character fairly easily

No need to bother trying to get dex to damage at all

this will give you 4 attacks at your highest bab all at a -2 to hit using kukris I believe.

So at level 16 you're full attack would be

14/14/14/14/9/4/-1

before other bonuses such as str and enhancement bonuses. This feels a bit icky though because it doesn't take advantage of your stat bonuses much if at all.

Honestly this opens a lot of classes to this kind of build but not the ones that would benefit from a Dex build typically

more bloodragers and barbs and fighters and inquisitors and war priests and paladins.

EDIT: the benefit of multi weapon fighting reads

Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by –2 with the primary hand and by –6 with off hands.

hands plural, you don't need to take it more than once for each hand.

Find a way to get bonus movement and/or pounce-like abilities. That will really allow you to optimize your whirlwind of death attack routine.

is there a feat called something like whirlwind attack? lets you take as many attacks as you have iterative bab against a single various single targets or something?

if your going for melee death machine may i suggest half elf synthesist chained summoner

Would a Warpriest work for you? The Kukri as the Sacred Weapon, obviously.

Andros is only level ten, but his damage output on paper was pretty impressive. Try and talk your GM into letting you use one 3rd party feat- Deadly Agility, from Path of War. It's a dex-to-damage feat, but really, it should have always existed. If you can get that, you're golden.

I thank everyone for their advice so far, and am constructing various builds in an effort to try all the suggestions. I admit I had no idea about the multiweapon training feat, and have of course, taken that and negated the entire improved/greater which is not compatable with it. This makes me more feat-light than before, as I seem to only need Weapon Finesse and Multi Weapon Fighting.

Synthesist is out (it's the only archetype not allowed), but is a good idea, which I would have strongly considered...

WarPriest is also out, as the only God with that Sacred Weapon is NE, which is too far away from my play-style (I just can't do evil...).

So, my current plan is Unchained Rogue (3)/Slayer [Stygian] (10)/Unknown (3). Though I'm still trying out other builds...

Unfortunately, I'm not very 'optimal' prone, so am not sure what other feats I should have or consider, though the Piranha one seems like a smart choice. Would it make sense to pick up some Natural Attacks (Bite/Tail)? Thinking 2 levels of Urban Barbarian with Animal Fury for bite attack, Mammoth Lord helmet for a Gore, and the Wyvern Cloak. Of course, no enhancement bonuses with those, so they'd be harder to hit with... maybe a bad idea?

I realize I'll be weaker than other fighters since I'm not doing 2-handed weapons for x1.5 so thought more attacks might be helpful... ?

I thank everyone for their advice so far, and am constructing various builds in an effort to try all the suggestions. I admit I had no idea about the multiweapon training feat, and have of course, taken that and negated the entire improved/greater which is not compatable with it. This makes me more feat-light than before, as I seem to only need Weapon Finesse and Multi Weapon Fighting.

Synthesist is out (it's the only archetype not allowed), but is a good idea, which I would have strongly considered...

WarPriest is also out, as the only God with that Sacred Weapon is NE, which is too far away from my play-style (I just can't do evil...).

So, my current plan is Unchained Rogue (3)/Slayer [Stygian] (10)/Unknown (3). Though I'm still trying out other builds...

Unfortunately, I'm not very 'optimal' prone, so am not sure what other feats I should have or consider, though the Piranha one seems like a smart choice. Would it make sense to pick up some Natural Attacks (Bite/Tail)? Thinking 2 levels of Urban Barbarian with Animal Fury for bite attack, Mammoth Lord helmet for a Gore, and the Wyvern Cloak. Of course, no enhancement bonuses with those, so they'd be harder to hit with... maybe a bad idea?

I realize I'll be weaker than other fighters since I'm not doing 2-handed weapons for x1.5 so thought more attacks might be helpful... ?

if you playing with normal pathfinder gods Tanagaar is a LG deity with favored weapon kukri it would even allow you to go unchained rogue 3/tempered champion paladin x which would be statistically better than warpriest for twf even though you already have a paladin in the group his archetype makes him more ranged focused which means you wont be stepping on any toes for bringing in a melee paladin

OMGoodness, I never even heard of Tempered Champion, but it looks amazing (for damage output)! And Tanagaar is my favorite god, just didn't realize that was his weapon... so wow...

I realize I'll be weaker than other fighters since I'm not doing 2-handed weapons for x1.5 so thought more attacks might be helpful... ?

Regular 2H can get 4 attacks at 1.5x Str bonus on each, so 6 x Str damage if all hit.

So you'll do less damage overall AND that damage will be more spread out... making any DR the target has a bigger problem. This can be offset by including more damage which scales linearly with the number of attacks... e.g. sneak attack.

Of course, you could also make a Kasatha wielding two 2H weapons. With the TWF feats that could get you up to 7 attacks, with 1.5x Str bonus damage on all of them... 10.5 x Str damage if all hit.

OMGoodness, I never even heard of Tempered Champion, but it looks amazing (for damage output)! And Tanagaar is my favorite god, just didn't realize that was his weapon... so wow...

Seconded!

Also, a warpriest can use any weapon as their sacred weapon- it's not limited to their diety's favored weapon. All they need to do is select it with Weapon Focus (and they get one for free at level 1). My kukri-wielding kasatha worshiped Iomedae, for example.

Also, a warpriest can use any weapon as their sacred weapon- it's not limited to their diety's favored weapon. All they need to do is select it with Weapon Focus (and they get one for free at level 1). My kukri-wielding kasatha worshiped Iomedae, for example.

Absolutely true, but the same is not true for the Tempered Champion.

I know fighter might sound mundane, but TWF with 4 scimitars and two bucklers is a lot of fun. All you do is get into combat and start crit fishing. Scimitar is 1d6 18-20/x2, and you can become a ginsu buzzsaw of criticals with Imp Critical (15-20/x2).

TWF
Imp TWF
Critical Focus: Scimitar
WF: Scimitar
GWF: Scimitar
WS: Scimitar
GWS: Scimitar
Double Slice
Power Attack
Combat Reflexes

With 22 str at lvl 11, you'll have
+11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+6/+6/+6/+6/+6/+1/+1 for your BAB
and +6 Str, +2 Weapon Training, +2 WF/GWF and -3 Power Attack, so it would actually be
+18/+18/+18/+18/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+8/+8

and deal 1d6+18 (15-20/x2) dmg.
+6 Str, +2 Weapon Training (Fighter), +4 WS/GWS, +6 Power Attack

Get Furious Focus and Improved Furious Focus to bring up your +hit, and you can even think about going Sickening Critical, Critical Mastery, etc. W/e you want :)

OMGoodness, I never even heard of Tempered Champion, but it looks amazing (for damage output)! And Tanagaar is my favorite god, just didn't realize that was his weapon... so wow...

if you need help putting one together i can help with that if that's what you wana build

Also, with TWF builds, always alway always have a back up weapon for each hand. You're going to rolling d20's a lot, and you have a pretty decent chance of fumbling a weapon on a 1 roll.

do people actually roll fumbling weapon rules?

On 20 you might get more damage on 1 you will miss and might drop s%$@?

Sounds annoying.

Kukri and Scimitar are the same stats except its 1d4 vs 1d6. So if you're married to Kukri for flavor, then go for it :) But I recommend scimitar and a crit fishing build if you want to be a whirlwind ginsu buzzsaw of death.

"Death awaits you ALL! With nasty, sharp, pointy teeth!" ~Tim

do people actually roll fumbling weapon rules?

On 20 you might get more damage on 1 you will miss and might drop s*%*?

Sounds annoying.

Yeah, I DM with a fumble and a critical card deck. Keeps things fresh and spontaneous :)

do people actually roll fumbling weapon rules?

On 20 you might get more damage on 1 you will miss and might drop s*+%?

Sounds annoying.

we do but we use exploding die rules so a natural 1 is roll again -20 and bad stuff only happends at a -10 so even if you only have a +10 your pretty safe unless you roll another 1

Seems a good TWF really requires a Fighter (or tempered paladin) because my calculations say I won't be doing any damage against anything with DR... Tried building a slayer, that I really like, but his damage is terrible without specialization and penetrating...

Kukri and Scimitar are the same stats except its 1d4 vs 1d6. So if you're married to Kukri for flavor, then go for it :) But I recommend scimitar and a crit fishing build if you want to be a whirlwind ginsu buzzsaw of death.

"Death awaits you ALL! With nasty, sharp, pointy teeth!" ~Tim

Pretty sure he is into the kukri cause it's a light weapon

whats your point buy or rolled stats

You can do it with Bane enchantments as a TWF fighter. I know it doesn't ignore DR, but it's a 2d6 bonus dmg for only a +1 slot on your weapon, and your weapon counts its enhancement as +2 higher vs. the target.

Or since you have a Paladin in your group, you can gain his Smite Evil from Aura of Justice to ignore DR/evil.

If it were me, I'd go with a Falcata Swashbuckler.

I'd use a Large Falcata in two hands and two regular sized ones. Then all my weapon-specific stuff works for both. (If you really want to, you can strap a buckler to one of your arms to use the Falcata Swashbuckler's buckler-specific abilities, but it isn't really necessary. Mostly it just gives you a bludgeoning damage option that works with most of your abilities.)

Effortless Lace stops the penalty on the large one.

Pick up Butterfly Sting. You count as your own ally. Go crit-fishing with the smaller ones and give yourself criticals with the large two handed one.

Then pick up Improved Critical and some fun critical feats.

With Lunge and a Blue Swordmaster's Flair you can increase your reach by quite a bit. Add Combat Reflexes to go crit-fishing when it isn't your turn.

Also, Power Attack, obviously.

You can do it with Bane enchantments as a TWF fighter. I know it doesn't ignore DR, but it's a 2d6 bonus dmg for only a +1 slot on your weapon, and your weapon counts its enhancement as +2 higher vs. the target.

Or since you have a Paladin in your group, you can gain his Smite Evil from Aura of Justice to ignore DR/evil.

divine hunters dont get aura of justice

whats your point buy or rolled stats

25, I took 19 Dex, 14 Con, Str, Int.

Sphynx, you said you're not married to kukri, but you are married to whirlwind of death. Have you thought of going two Two-handed weapons and going for a Cleave route?

Power Attack/Cleave/Great Cleave/Cleaving Finish/Improved Cleaving Finish/Furious Focus

You could have your entire cleave line done by level 6 and multi-class into something else for 10 levels if you wanted.

What if you went Fighter6/Rogue10? Or Fighter6/Magus8(or Wizard6)/Eldritch Knight2(or EK4)?

You could have True Strike... hoo... money :)

Are you opposed to Psionic Classes at all? Or an Unchained-Monk?

12,17,14,7,7,17 for a total of 12,22,14,7,9,18 after racials and level up points 4 levels into unchained rogue will get you dex to hit and dmg for free, a pretty decent skill point pool to offset your int debilitating injury to help you hit better,evasion, 2d6 sneak attack, uncanny dodge, trapfinding and some rogue talents

tempered champion will make your kukri 1d10 as well as bolster your saves and give you full bab, 3 bonus feats, divine bond, some immunities and give you smite and lay on hands.

unchained rogue 4, tempered champion paladin 12

feats
1)multi weapon fighting
3)double slice(gets you x1 dex to dmg on offhand attacks)
5)piranha strike
7)
8)weapon specialization
9)improved critical kukri
11)
12)greater weapon focus
13)
15)penetrating strike
16)greater weapon specialization

fill the gaps with any other feats you feel like

rogue talent
weapon training(weapon focus as a rogue talent)
combat trick, ninja trick, fast stealth or assault leader depending on your play style

Consider a Kasatha Psychic Warrior15 (Feral Warrior/Brawler, Assassin/Dervish, Weaponmaster/Gladiator Path) with a dip in U-Monk1 (for Flurry of Blows if you go with Feral Warrior/Brawler for Natural Attacks).

With the Psionic Power Expansion, you can become Huge. You'd be a huge, 4-armed kukri swinging menace as an Assassin/Dervish Path PsyWar16 :)

You can get lots of really cool powers too, like Inevitable Strike (True Strike for Psionics), Hustle (Extra Move Action per round), and all the Precognition Powers (+1/pp hit, +1/pp AC, +1/pp dmg rolls, etc.) and Vigor (+5/pp Temp Health).

And as a PsyWar, you get lots of bonus combat feats. Not as many as a fighter obviously, but you can make up for all the WF/GWF and WS/GWS feats with the Psionic Powers you can manifest.

A huge-sized Kukri is 1d8 dmg.

You could go with Fighter6 (cleave route with two-2handers), PsyWar10 (Weaponmaster/Dervish or Weaponmaster/Assassin) and you'd have a total of 10 powers with access to level 4 powers! <----- Beast mode Ginsu of death

lvl1: Fighter1 - Power Attack, Cleave
lvl2: Fighter2 - Furious Focus
lvl3: Fighter3 - Cleaving Finish
lvl4: Fighter4 - Great Cleave
lvl5: Fighter5 - Weapon Focus: Greatsword
lvl6: Fighter6 - Improved Cleaving Finish
lvl7: PsyWar1 - Weapon Specialization: Greatsword, Psicrystal Affinity, Power: Vigor, Path: Weaponmaster
lvl8: PsyWar2 - Vital Strike, Power: Inevitable Strike
lvl9: PsyWar3 - Devastating Strike, Power: Expansion
lvl10: PsyWar4 - Power: Psionic Lion's Charge
lvl11: PsyWar5 - Improved Vital Strike, Power: Hustle, Expanded Knowledge: Share Pain
lvl12: PsyWar6 - Power: Detect Hostile Intent <--- No save, breaks the game
lvl13: PsyWar7 - Step Up, Power: Concealing Amorpha(greater)
lvl14: PsyWar8 - Following Step, Step Up and Strike, Power: Ectoplasmic Grapnel (Get over here!)
lvl15: PsyWar9 - Disruptive (+4DC for enemy conc checks), Power: Physical Acceleration (Haste, and a lot of goodies), Second Path: Assassin
lvl16: PsyWar10 - Power: Fold Space (teleport yourself and others 800ft)

Huge Greatswords are 4d6. With Vital Strike, Devastating Strike and Imp Vital Strike, thats 4d6+ your bonus dmg + 8d6+4.

With being Huge and having the Disruptive Feat, you threaten a lot of stuff because your reach is 15ft. And you have Improved Cleaving Finish. Every time you kill something with Cleave, you get a free attack, and there's no maximum amount of Free Attacks you can get.

You will be an absolute whirlwind of death because you threaten everything within 15ft of you. And you can teleport. And you can manifest True Strike as a swift action :D

And you can cast Vigor+Share Pain and share both with your Psicrystal for a massive boost to survivability.

Psionic Lion's Charge lets you charge and make a Full Round Attack and Hustle gives you extra move actions.

You will be an extremely mobile, highly-survivable, teleporting whirlwind that distributes doom and death.

At lvl 16, you'd end up with a +13/+13/+8/+8/+3/+3 (BAB only) for a single target (Vital Striking the first two), or +13/+13 for the two cleaves on multiple enemies. Maximize your +hit though, your cleave stops whenever you miss, and your extra hits from Cleaving Finish come from when you kill things with your Cleave.

With Step up & Strike + Hustle + Fold Space + Psionic Lion's Charge, nothing can run from you.

Str > Wis > Dex > Int > Con > Cha. Your PsyWar gains additional PP per day for a high Wis score, and since you have Vigor, you don't even need Con. As long as you have PP, you have an endless stream of temporary HP.

So when you cast Vigor, augment it to 10ppx5hp for 50 temporary HP and share it with your Psicrystal, and then manifest Share Pain on your Psicrystal. All dmg you suffer is split with the Psicrystal and it has just as much temp HP as you :)

"Weaponmaster Path

Powers: Empty mind, metaphysical weapon

Skills: Acrobatics, Craft, Knowledge (nobility)

Bonus class skill: Knowledge (nobility)

Trance: Beginning at 3rd level, while maintaining psionic focus, you gain a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls made with a weapon (natural weapons do not count for this benefit). This bonus increases by 1 every four psychic warrior levels thereafter.

Maneuver: Beginning at 3rd level, you can expend your psionic focus as an immediate action when an enemy attacks you to make a single melee attack against that enemy and then take a 5-foot step. The enemy’s attack is resolved before you take your action. At 8th level and every five psychic warrior levels thereafter, you gain a +1 competence bonus on the attack and damage rolls made for this attack."

Considering that you should hopefully have at least a 26 Str (with items) by lvl 16;

To Hit
+13 BAB
+8 Str (+2 Str while Huge)
+4 Two-handed Str bonus (+1 Str while Huge)
+1 WF
+1 Weapon Training (Fighter)
-0 Power Attack (Furious Focus)
+2 Weaponmaster (while Psi Focused)
+4 Weapon Enchantment
= +33 to hit (before augmenting with Psionic Powers)
so +33/33/+23/+23/+18/+18 on a Full Round Attack (with Physical Acceleration active, you're hasted, so you'd get two more attacks at your highest BAB). This would become +36/+36 to hit while you're huge. You may want to get Improved Furious Focus to bring up the +hit on your Iterative attacks, it's up to you though.

To Damage
+8 Str (+2 Str while Huge)
+4 Two-handed Str bonus (+1 Str while Huge)
+10 Power Attack
+5 Power Attack 2h Bonus
+2 WS
+1 Weapon Training
+4 Weapon Enchantment

2d6+34 to damage, + 4d6+4 for Vital Strike
4d6+37 to damage while Huge(Cleave), +8d6+4 for Vital Strike

If you get Lesser Mind Stones to grant you extra powers (2,000g a piece), you can get all the level 1 Precognition Powers for an even bigger bonus to hit, ac/saves, and damage rolls.

Seems a good TWF really requires a Fighter (or tempered paladin) because my calculations say I won't be doing any damage against anything with DR... Tried building a slayer, that I really like, but his damage is terrible without specialization and penetrating...

You'll bypass DR just fine. Make 1 Kukri Cold Iron. Make another Adamantine. Put a Shield in 1 of your arms. So now you can bypass DR/ Cold Iron, Adamantine, Slashing, and Bludgeoning (Shield Bash).

And, if as Dαedαlus suggested, you go Warpriest, all your Kukri's will do Sacred Weapon Damage instead of 1d4. Also, with their Class Abilities and Cleric Spells, Warpriests have lots of ways to do extra Damage and Bypass DR.

And remember the whole point of using Kukris is the Threat Range of 18-20: You ARE taking Improved Crit, right? and Crit Focus? Take the Holy Tactician Archetype, and make your Teamwork Feat Outflank or Seize the Moment, and you will pass out Attacks of Opportunity with every Crit, and with 3 Kukris, Crit Focus, and Improved Crit, there will be a great many.

Seems a good TWF really requires a Fighter (or tempered paladin) because my calculations say I won't be doing any damage against anything with DR... Tried building a slayer, that I really like, but his damage is terrible without specialization and penetrating...

Well, TWF works best when you are adding something to your damage for each hit. This can be Sneak Attack, Weapon Training/Spec, Smite, etc.

I would suggest an alternative option that could work is Cavalier.

With Challenge, you are adding your class level to the damage of each hit. This can further be enhanced with the order specific bonus to attack or damage.

While you can only Challenge so many times per day, Order of the Flame or the Chain Challenge feat do a lot to keep the effect in play.