GM Kiora's Wrath of the Righteous

Game Master Kiora Atua

Hinagiku doesn't have a monk speed boost :o

I'm having a really rocky life about now, so my post rates will suffer.

I hope it gets better soon, but in the meanwhile, hang in there.

Also, true, Hinagiku does not have a monk speed boost... archetypes and all that.

Edit: yeah, catapults right now would not be ideal i think, if only because we cannot move them quickly and they might make a good target.

As Hinagiku said, hang in there Ary. I know things are crazy at the moment, but they will calm down eventually.

It's okay Ary, hope everything works out for you soon. If you need me to bot you, just let me know, but for now I'm assuming you can still check in every now and then.

Yeah, I'll let you know. If you feel like I'm holding things up, let me know.

I wish you the best of luck Ary. Though hopefully things don't get bad enough that you need a lot of it.

I amend my surprise round action on Ary to aligning Anevia's bow like a not-dumb. :)

Re: 3 rounds

I believe we should go ahead and have the troops open fire. We need someone to try and taunt the Vrocks into range of Sosiel, so we can have one dismissed.

I thought somewhere we'd defined what spells the clerics were preparing for today (other than Sosiel), but I can't find it. Did the other clerics prepare attack spells like burst of radiance?

augh the website changed :( the different font offends me more than it probably should

At least it’s not comic sans. :P

I just noticed I didn't include the skeletal shantak.

I put him in there but since he is huge sized I'm gonna say you need to put him in a house (he has to be completely within the house, no pieces sticking out) and he can't sit on top of a troop and hide. You can move him if you wanna swap his places with a troop or something.

So because this mass combat is being run as a troop vs troop scenario, I am adding a basic morale system in for routs, loosely based on the native mass combat system. In the native mass combat system morale checks don't happen until the enemy is basically dead, so from my experience with it it rarely comes into play. Previously, in the abstracted mass combat system we were running, enemies routed based on a pre-determined setting (generally, the army will rout if the commander is dead and they are significantly out-numbered). I'm going to try out a basic system here today and depending on how it feels, maybe the rest of the mass combats in this book will play out with large scale troop vs troop battles.

Most of this should already be similar to what you guys are used to with past troop battles.

So, here we go.

Players of War

In a mass combat, there are four types of character:

• Commander : The commander is the leader of the entire army, and always receives their own token and initiative count.
  
• Captain: The captain is a leader of a troop. Captains are not units and are essentially an undefined individual within a troop. In the case that a PC is also a Captain of a troop, they must name a Lieutenant to assume the role of Captain for them.
  
• Champion: Champions are powerful units that are not parts of a troop. PCs are always considered champions (unless they are also a Commander).
  
• Troop: Troops form up the bulk of the army and obey the troop rules per the Paizo template.
  

Note that I use the term unit to differentiate a normal individual character from a troop in the following rules.

Troop vs Troop Combat

• Commanders, Troops, and Champions all receive their own initiative count and act on their own initiative.
  
• Troops will always respond to the orders of their Commander, and to Champions they have a good relationship with.
  
• Generally, friendly troops are automated by the GM (meaning they are instructed by their NPC Captains), but the PCs can issue specific commands to a troop to do something different, assuming morale is holding.
  
• Each troop has a Captain that helps inspire morale. Units can choose to focus down a troop's Captain, rather than deal damage to the Troop. While doing so, they will incur the wrath of the troop as they rise up to defend their Captain, and will be unable to make reflex saves against that troop's damage - consider hit and run tactics.
  
• Troops deal automatic troop melee damage at the end of their turn to any units or enemy troops within the space of their troop. Troops with reach weapons additionally deal troop damage to enemies within 1 square of their troop.
  
• Troops cannot deal attacks of opportunity, but they do trigger attacks of opportunity from enemy units.
  
• Up to one troop can stack on top of another troop. When enemy troops fight, they deal double damage to one another as long as the majority of the troop space overlaps with the other troop. Troop damage cannot crit. When friendly troops stack on top of each other, they form a defensive wall that cannot be passed except with maneuevers like overrun.
  
• Individual units within an enemy troop take full troop damage. If the enemy troop is also engaged with another troop, then the individual units are entitled to a reflex save to half damage. Dodge applies.
  
• Individual units and troops fully within an enemy troop are always considered flanked.
  
• If an individual unit is standing inside of a troop, and has received damage from that troop since their last turn, they will need to make a concentration check against that damage to cast.
  
• Troops generally follow swarm rules - targeted actions do not do much to a troop, but AoE damage attacks are multiplied by 1.5.
  
• Troops with ranged attacks make ranged attacks. This attack takes the form of up to four lines with a distance of up to the first increment range of their ranged weapon. These lines can each start from any corner of any square in the troop’s space, and deal damage to all creatures in the way of the line.
  
• Troops with ranged attacks can make volley attacks. This attack resolves as an AoE that is the same size as the troop itself, with a range of the distance of the first increment range of their ranged weapon.
  
• Troops can cast spells as swift actions assuming the spell being cast can be cast by any one individual member of the troop with equal efficiency. For example, a troop could cast fear on an enemy target as a swift action, but a troop could only cast fear on an enemy troop as a standard action (because the latter would require the entire troop to cast in unison).
  
• To interrupt the spellcasting of a troop, the entire troop needs to be within the area of the effect causing the interruption. This generally means the interrupting effect needs to be an AoE effect.
  
• Troops with Medics receive fast healing equal to the strength of their Medics. The infantry troops in this battle have fast healing 10 (medics + paladin LoH), except the Vilareth infantry, who have fast healing 5 (medics only, no paladins).
  
• Troops incur grazed/wounded/critical penalties as normal.
  
• When a troop runs out of HP this means they essentially do not function as a troop. This means the majority of the troop has fled, is incapacitated, or is dead. The actual death count is determined after the battle.
  

Morale

As troops incur damage, their morale begins to drop and they become progressively more disorganized. They start to ignore direct orders in the heat of battle, sometimes leading to costly mistakes. At especially low morale, troops will even be driven to disband and flee.

Rules

• Starting when a troop becomes Wounded, a troop must make a morale check every round or become routed. A routed army is a disorganized, fleeing mob that no longer responds to orders by its Commander or Captain. A routed troop will attempt to flee by the most efficient means possible, but if cornered, the troop will fight back to defend itself.
  
• Starting when a troop becomes Wounded, a troop must make a morale check every time it is given a specific order by a Commander or Champion, unless that order is to flee. Failure at the morale check means the troop ignores the order.
  
• At the GM's discretion, other exceptional circumstances may force a morale check to avoid a rout. For example, the appearance of a fearsome dragon may cause an army to rout, or an unexpected turn of events that places a troop at a unique disadvantage.
  
• The morale check is 1d20+Commander Modifier+Morale Modifier and is placed against a DC of 10.
  
• The Commander Modifier represents the Commander's presence in battle- he or she is generally constantly keeping tabs on the battle, issuing orders, and keeping their army focused on the task at hand. The Commander Modifier is based on the highest of three: The Commander's charisma modifier, the Commander's ranks in Profession Soldier or the Commander's leadership score.
  
• When the Commander is dead, KO'd, or otherwise absent (meaning they are unable to communicate with their troop - some savvy commanders may issue commands telepathically from afar, or while invisible), a troop cannot benefit from its Commander's modifier when making morale checks.
  

Morale Modifiers

This list is by no means comprehensive - other things that I have not considered may apply bonuses or penalties per GM discretion.

• +4 if the Troop's Commander succeeds on an intimidate check against them
  
• +4 if the Troop's Captain is active
  
• +2 if immune to fear
  
• +2 from Inspire Courage or similar effects
  
• +2 if inspired by their Commander as a standard action (an inspiring speech, DC 20 of appropriate skill)
  
• +1 if inspired by a Champion as a standard action (an inspiring speech, DC 20 of an appropriate skill)
  
• +1 per active friendly Champion engaged in battle.
  
• +1 if receiving a bonus to will saves vs fear (example: Bravery)
  
• -1 if the entire troop is shaken
  
• -1 if the majority of the troop is afflicted by a debuff
  
• -1 if out-numbered by the enemy
  
• -2 if wounded (progresses to -3 at critical)
  
• -2 if on half-rations
  
• -2 if a Commander that intimidated the troop dies or is unconscious
  
• -4 if starving
  
• -5 if the last troop standing
  

Additionally the troop can gain bonuses to morale for amazing feats accomplished by the Commander and their Champions, and penalties for substantial losses to flashy effects (such as fireball).

That's it. I am hoping the system adds some tactical interest as to how to use your own troops and how to most efficiently wipe out the enemy. Efficiently wiping out the enemy in this combat means your army will be in good shape to attempt more mass combats in a single day.

I am open to feedback regarding this system both now and after combat.

How do troops interact with things like DR/Bludgeoning? Are all of the Schir assumed to be using halberds and thus less-equipped to deal with a skeletal ragebeast? :)

Troops use weapons for troop damage, so their weapon type determines how it functions with DR. I actually use the weapon dice increment in calculating their troop damage. It otherwise just applies once vs DR.

If you somehow managed to disarm an entire troop (no idea how you'd accomplish this) they'd resort to natural attacks or possibly even unarmed attacks assuming no back up weapon is available. (Most of my NPCs have at least a dagger on hand)

If the troop is composed instead of something that does FRA natural attacks as a unit (like the classic bite-claw-claw), then they deal damage for the types covered by bite-claw-claw (which is all of them).

Are archery troops able to shoot then move? Such that our rangers could drop a volley of arrows and then withdraw to bait retaliation?

Yes, they can do that :)

My vote is to wait at least a round to enable the cavalry to get closer. We absolutely have to engage them before the cavalry is hitting them, because the Cavalry is going to be making a lot of noise :P Ideally, we give them a round of going 'wtf', then hit the schir with a volley of arrows from both squadrons, who then fall back to Ary's House and Hinagiku's House. This should get them to either follow, or not; either way, they're still in range of another volley if they don't engage. The archers aren't likely to move forward off of the main road, assuming that they're all wielding bows, which have a hundred feet of range almost exclusively. As such, we can hold our infantry 'in hiding' until the enemy is forced to engage by our archers.

I think that fighting defensively and keeping to cover is the way to minimize the enemy archer's ability to hit us back until our cavalry arrives.

So, I'm thinking: Make preparations this round, attack next round and withdraw, react to enemy maneuvers as appropriate next round. Thoughts?

I think the vrocks are too dangerous to be left to their own devices, even for just one round. Plus they have the greatest chance of spotting us early, since they have a higher perspective. We should just hit them now, keep them distracted for three rounds, and then let the cavalry clean up.

That said, I agree with hitting them with the archers right away. Ideally we'll be able to pull the foot soldier cultists toward our army and Shantak Skellington, so that we can wipe them out right away.

Hinagiku and Isilme, thoughts on Arys suggestion?

I was hoping on getting the schir's stuck on the bridge.... if we wait, that won't be the case. Bu now, worst, with stacking troops it gets kinda weird. The troops might leave the bridge even if we engage, which reduces our advantage a lot. @Kiora, if we engage the troops, is there anyway that we can stop the ones from the bridge from getting back on the shore? Can we stack our troop on top of another troop?

I think we need to go immediately.

Xanderghul could wall of nausea to separate the schir, and Val Hinagiku and Ary step out and call out the Vrocka and troops prior to anyone engaging.

The Vrocks will jump at the chance to go for Ary, and the cultists will charge, at which point they get Intruders ended. Our troops charge once Vrocks and cultists charge, swarming Vrocks and cultists. Archers open fire on schir, focusing down one unit at a time, not moving.

Round 2 sosiel casts dismissal with rally from Ary for best chance. Maybe intimidate from Val for extra save penalty in first round? After that surround and burn down second crock just as cavalry arrives.

Msg from kiora: the intent is troops cannot move through 2 troops stacked on top of each other though units can still move freely. Units are only barred by two flallied troops forming a barricade by stacking sorry for not explicitly stating that

Unfortunately I can't put a wall of nausea where there are already units. However, I won't complicate this planning with my own thoughts.

If Ary uses Intruder's End, she cannot Rally in the next turn. :) (What with Intruder's End being an immediate and Rally being a swift :o)

So, it's gonna have to be either Rally->Dismissal->Intruder's End or Intruder's End->Turn->Rally->Dismissal. :)

An immediate action used within your turn is a swift action from your current turn. Since intruder's end lasts for 1 round, you can use it in round one on your turn and still have it last until the start of your next turn, leaving your swift action free.

It's only if you use it off-turn that you lose next turn's swift.

(Rnd 1: Move, total defense, taunt vrocks, Intruder's End) -> (Rnd 2: Rally, Sosiel casts Dismissal)

Edit: Actually, I'm not seeing any reason why you couldn't use both Intruder's End and Defensive Focus or a Std Action to regain Intruder's End within the same round. So long as you've used it, I don't think the PoW rules require the effect of the ability to be over before you regain a use of it.

Hm. I was pretty sure that that's what I thought happened (an immediate on my turn is a swift), but when I suggested to use an immediate then have a swift next turn I remember someone saying it didn't work that way.

If I use total defense, I can't make attacks of opportunity. :)

Ary was in cover and I think made her reflex save. Should that aoe be further halved?

With everything that's going on, can we give orders off turn?

The way I've been doing maneuver recovery, I simply don't let myself recover maneuvers for Anevia when the action she's using to recover maneuvers is the same action she's using the maneuver in. I believe pinhole gambit, for example, can't refresh a strike, even though it only triggers after the strike is used and resolved.

But yeah, there's nothing that says I can't intruder's end straight into recovering it.

Sosiel goes before Ary, so... what do?

Vrocks are too far away now since they didn't close. Dismissal 40 ft range.

Main priority now is to do whatever we can to stop summons.

Ary's not in a house, she's standing in what used to be someone's yard (with a picket fence). Houses = roofs, which is what I mean when I say you can take cover from a volley.

You can give orders off turn.

I think PoW explicitly says you cannot recover a strike using the same strike... I could be wrong because PoW rules are hard to parse on d20pfsrd. I really just need to keep the pdf on my computer :P

An immediate action during your turn is a swift, when it is done off your turn it takes up your next swift.

I think we want the Sunrise Sword to get in there to support the Infantry of Vilareth. Are there any thoughts on that?

Ary: Use the force! retroactively immediate action doom upon the schir :O

Some changes to the mass combat system:

- I am doubling the fast healing done by healers. So a troop with a medic (which is all of your troops) gets base fast healing 10. A troop with native healing (paladins, generally) gets an additional fast healing 10. A healing champion (so, Sosiel, Markus, Ehren for your army) can spend their standard action within a troop and increase this base fast healing by 50%. A champion standing inside of a friendly troop that has fast healing will also benefit from the fast healing. This means that a troop with maximum healing potential will negate nearly all incoming damage, though this comes at the cost of a healing champion's action economy.

- Your troops have limitations to how much they can heal. Right now I have this set to 9 rounds of healing per troop.

- I am tripling the amount of DR gained from armor + shields for troops vs troop damage to make your heavily armored guys beefier. DR gained from armor is always subtracted by 3 then multiplied by 3. (so a troop in studded leather has 0 DR)

- Troops in wound thresholds will take a penalty to damage equal to 25% (grazed), 50% (wounded), or 75% (critical) so those mostly dead schir will no longer do so much damage :p

- Enemy troops can no longer move completely through each other. This makes movement more meaningful - at maximum, 4 allied troops can engage a single enemy troop, but it will take some thought to actually set it up so they can surround each other.

-Enemy troops can use acrobatic checks to move through each other.

-Enemy troops that are at least one size larger than another can move through each other (this allows your cavalry to move freely - they have high mobility)

- Troops now attack as a standard action. No move-> move -> attack

- Cavalry have the ability to charge. To charge, they must have a space of clear area to get to a running start that is the same size as the troop itself. They can then charge in a straight line equal to twice to their move speed. When cavalry charges into another troop, the troop makes a morale check of DC 10 as normal, with a penalty equal to how disadvantageous the troop stands against a cavalry charge. If the troop fails its morale check, the cavalry moves through that troop, dealing double troop damage, and possibly triggering another morale check from the next troop. This continues until the charge is complete or until a troop makes their morale check to stop the charge.

Cavalry Charge Morale Modifiers

• -5 : Infantry without reach weapons
  
• -5: for each size increment difference between the enemy and the charging troop (so -5 for horses vs humans, -10 for elephants vs humans)
  
• -5: if flanked
  
• -5 if caught flat footed
  
• -5 if no melee weapons in hand
  
• +5 if the troop being charged at is a higher CR than the charging troop.
  
• +5 if the troop has formed a defensive line by stacking friendly units on one another
  
• +10 if the troop has braced reach weapons
  

- I will allow Ary to bodyguard a troop for a total of +9 DR (assuming she doesn't fumble). She must be completely inside a friendly troop to do this, not adjacent. This makes the troop Ary is standing in extra defensive, and gives her player a tactical reason to stand with her troops.

- I will allow Hinagiku to benefit from Flowing Dodge vs troop damage, granting her DR equal to her AC from Flowing Dodge bonus. This should make her pretty much impervious to all but the most fearsome of troops.

Additional morale penalties or bonuses may apply (like if the guy leading the charge is riding on a mythic dire bear or something extreme.

Sorry I have to tweak the numbers so much - integrating the numbers I was using for the abstract system in with the numbers I was using for units vs troops is a work in progress. Because of this, if one of your troop goes down during this combat, I will be reducing the death % penalties by 75%.

All of you should be willing to help manage your troops' behavior, whether it is your turn or not. I roleplay so that if you have no interest in managing your troops, you will generally do okay, but if you are willing to command them a little, you will do far better.

Reminders for Kiora:

I found a pretty fun feat that seems right up Xanderghul's alley and also maybe Isilme's? I'm thinking of taking it because it allows significant shenanigans pretty much at-will.

Is anyone else slightly surprised that Pathfinder 2e is apparently a thing?

Yeah, we were talking about that a bit on Roll20. I have... cynical hopes.

I have a friend who said almost the exact same thing.

I'm expecting it to take way too much from 5e. They say 'it should play like the game you know!' but I'm more hopeful that it'll be like a 3.9. Where they fix things like Versatile performance to automatically give you your ranks back and such. Invalidating all of their previous content rather than rewriting some of their less appealing content would be very sad.

I'll be a little disappointed if they go for a 3E->5E kind of thing instead of a 3E->3.5E or D&D 1E->2E thing. I don't think Pathfinder needs a complete overhaul, it just needs to be opened up, cleaned out, and polished.

Clean up masterpieces, clean up versatile performance. Condense feats so they're more fun and flavorful, and less of a drag. Something like the Elephant in the Room. Tackling the martial/caster disparity would be nice too.

Maybe some love for prestige classes again, and a second go at Variant Multiclassing to really make it more fun and appealing overall, especially in a world where feats are more condensed and fun.

Some tweaks to lessen rocket tag at higher levels, and a revamp of mythic would be welcome too.

I *really* don't want them to make it like Starfinder though. We have a lot of content available for Pathfinder, and I don't want to start in a new world with no real class choices available. Starting from scratch is not ok. The combined amount of first party and 3rd party material out there is one of the things that's so great about Pathfinder.

I'm pretty excited. If they add too many changes then, I can just continue to play 1E (there's already way more content/adventures in 1E than I can get through in a lifetime, after all) and I'm comfortable enough with the system that I could adapt 2E APs/modules to 1E no sweat. Also, just like I am doing with Starfinder, I can always just poach the rules that work and ignore the ones that don't mesh with 1E.

If they create more of a "Pathfinder Unchained" (that is, PF that is still basically PF but unchained from needing to basically be D&D 3.5 at its core) then... that's awesome! Such a thing should be compatible with 1E content with a little bit of retuning. I'd probably just transition my games smoothly to 2E, knowing that my players (and myself) don't lose access to old content in doing so - we just lose a lot of aggravation.

My main concern is actually world setting content. I'm dreading a bunch of old Golarion content being re-released to be updated to 2E (ostensibly because new Pathfinder 2E players might not want to buy 1E content and will need to have products on the basics), when there is so much Golarion that I want to get books about first. I mean I am 100% expecting YET ANOTHER world setting book on Varisia and that is the last thing I could ever care about. Meanwhile, I need a world setting book on Vudra in my life. I needs it.

I'm both excited and concerned. While I like Starfinder, there are certain parts of those rules that I really don't want to see in Pathfinder Second Edition - the divide between PC and NPC creation, for one.

But the changes they've laid out so far look promising. Some variant of Automatic Bonus Progression is apparently baked right into the system, and it looks like they're making an effort to balance magic. Gonna take a while to get used to there being 10 levels of magic, though. :P

Yeah, if it's basically Starfinder-Pathfinder then I'm not very thrilled. I think Starfinder is an interesting system, but I don't really want a Pathfinder that gives up archetypes, for example. ABP though is pretty much my favorite thing about Pathfinder Unchained, so I'm totally ready to see it baked in :)

I'm pretty pumped about making the game Golarion-default. Something I dislike about Pathfinder is that setting neutral books often introduce monsters or races, and then you either need to force them into Golarion yourself, or wait for a Golarion-specific setting book to know how they match in the world. For example, Catfolk are a cool race, but information about their society and how they fit into Golarion wasn't really expanded until Inner Sea Races and then Blood of the Beast, 5 years later. The newer dragon types are also a good example of this (where do Solar Dragons fit into Golarion?) Without setting information it makes it hard to include these sorts of races into your game in any kind of meaningful way.

I hope that having Golarion default doesn't interfere with the SRD or anything like that. I like having quick rules access without needing to own seventy books. But otherwise I really like the idea. I enjoy the Golarion setting quite a lot and there's some stuff in it that I wish I had more chance to do stuff with.

I am listening to the podcast from glasscanon and so far I like it (especially the reactions). I am excite to read the rules when they come out!

@Isilme: The demon is immune to sneak attack and critical hits, which means that Anevia sniping it won't do much, same for our other archers. Ilivan's corps would be much more useful on it.

It also has a cone of fatigue that means we should want our paladins to eat the brunt of that... specifically our infantry.

I do think we have to hurry, though, as I don't think the monster is just gonna sit around once it figures out we've wrecked the rest of its people.

A troop or two of enemies in addition to a potent demon that has massive aoe capabilities just... makes me wonder what we should do.

Anevia has holy arrows, which means she can do damage directly. No sneak attack sure, but she does decent damage even without. The banshees and Anevia can stay way back, but I think we need to hit it with everything we've got.

The demon's AoE abilities aren't really potent though. The acid globule is only 2d6 on a direct hit, and 1d4 splash, with a 5' radius. Stinking cloud is decent, and waves of fatigue is annoying. Really the only thing it has for AoE that's at all dangerous is unholy blight at-will. But with a single target it's going to want to get up close and disease me to have another slave for its pit. Once it's up close, if we hit it with everything, it will go down. 4x charge, will be pretty devastating, even with DR. Remember the damage vs the archers was 12d8 + 36 + 36. Even subtracting out DR, 4 cavalry charges on it would wreck the demon. Add in a full attack from you, and we can likely drop it in a round.

How about we have the archers hold off, and call for them if it's really close? The Cavalry just need to be within 150' to start their charges, and you will be there to stop the initial approaches of the enemy with intruder's end.

I don't feel good about using troops of expendables against powerful single enemies with potent anti-good AoE SLAs. I suppose I'm busy though, so you do you.

There are unlikely to be any troops our forces need smite against, especially the cavalry, who deal absurd amounts of damage to begin with. I can understand wanting to save smite for the Beast, or maybe the drake riders, but only one of our squads has even used a charge of smite at this point. Each has 2 uses. Still the 12d8+36+36 was without smite, so we can probably get by without it if we want to conserve.

I'm open to other ideas, but if we wait for y'all to return that's a minimum of 10 extra minutes of time we've wasted. I don't think we have the luxury of wasting time right now.

Its not the smite charges, its the deaths to unholy smite and AoOs I fear.

He gets 4 attacks of 1d8+3, which is hardly a threat to the people charging him. It's an average of 11 damage (4.5+3*1.5 for combat reflexes) from AoOs vs the troop, before Armor-as-DR, which would lower that to 2 on average (6 max). Note that he doesn't get AoO's with his whip, since he has nothing special to grant it, and whips don't threaten by default.

Unholy smite shouldn't come into play. If he doesn't take the bait and go for Isilme, we don't charge. If he does, he's dead. If he decides to hang back and cast at Isilme, we back up and bait him down the hill, which should allow us to meet y'all half way.

I'm open to suggestions. If everyone thinks we should just back off and wait, that's fine. Ary has final say on what the army does, after all.

Yo. Sorry, I forgot to tell you yesterday that I'm on a trip this weekend and can only post from my phone occasionally. I also can't see the Battle map at all until Monday. I'll try to keep up, but if you need to bot me, go for it. Val will focus on killing dudes and staying between them and our casters.