GM Kiora's Wrath of the Righteous

Game Master Kiora Atua

That's what I do as well, Valaria, 2+Int for a wizard makes sense: They just aren't as worldly as other people, no matter how intelligent they are. What they've learned, they've likely learned while studying for -years- to master magic that doesn't come naturally to them.

And yeah, that's a better way of naming them. :P

I could have totally understood them putting the exceptionally hybrid classes in this first book to give the concept (and I suppose monk was exceptionally hybrid).

I also feel that they did do a lot of things well in regards to 'helping fighters' by giving the stamina system as an option. Stamina for fighters is -amazing-. It adds a lot of in-combat options based on the training you've received. Draining options, to be sure, but it really did help to make fighter something to take.

Speaking of, I'm assuming the answer is no (it's the most reasonable and likely one!), but I'll ask anyway, just because the worst I can hear is the answer I expect: Does Ary qualify for Stamina usage powers due to being VMC'd with Fighter?

Yeah, Stamina is a great update for them. Honestly, if that had been a fighter class feature and part of a simple update to their power, I'd have called that the Unchained Fighter and called it a day.

Have to admit, I haven't really taken a careful look at the stamina system. I still need to pick up a copy of the book myself (even though everything is online now...) To be honest, I've always loved the Fighter as it is written. Then again, that's probably because I am a huge sucker for feats. And generally speaking, I rarely play non-human fighters - the extra skill point helps, and I usually try to take at least 12 Int anyway.

Speaking of, I'm assuming the answer is no (it's the most reasonable and likely one!), but I'll ask anyway, just because the worst I can hear is the answer I expect: Does Ary qualify for Stamina usage powers due to being VMC'd with Fighter?

Nope! :p

on a different note:

I forgot to specify how high up the ceiling is, I added that to the battlemap. (Also all 4 darkmantles lol) basically- the tunnel you guys are in is really short (7 ft high) but the cavern widens out to 30 ft high.

Then in the back there is also another short 7ft high tunnel, though I think only Valaria and Li'an can see that far.

Mmhmm. I'll try to ping you and bug you when you haven't described enough for Ary to be terrified at the prospects of what can happen to her charges if she lowers her vigil!

Nope! :p

No biggy! I'm basically losing not gaining 'MOAR AID ANOTHER' like twice per combat. I may try to pick it up later, though, assuming my feat choices make it worthwhile down the line. Thanks!

Oh, and also... if it isn't too late! Before we left (if we weren't storming off!) perhaps Ary and Rocky tried to drain the spider as well? :)

Survival: 1d20 + 4 - 1 ⇒ (20) + 4 - 1 = 23 :| +3 to Ehren, if possible. I'm gonna have to get used to getting natural 20's on aids. That's like my fourth that I've rolled. XD

My action for later somewhat depends. "Slackens imperceptibly" leads me to believe that Ary can't really know that Markus hit it with a fear; she certainly couldn't have known she was hitting a feared target previously. If she knows it's going to let go, she'll focus her attention on something more dangerous... but if she doesn't, then she'll try to help free Hrut, I think. :)

Ah, those awkward early levels as a caster where you do not yet have that magical bag of tricks that lets you solve any situation. :P

you'll make up for it when you're mythic and have too many tricks for me to keep up with :p

On Ary's turn she'll follow the periwinkle road. :)

Got my f2f group meeting tonight so I won't be as attentive. However we should be done around the time Markus' 24 hour window to post is up, so if any of you are online later I'll be around to address your actions then. In the meantime, don't wait on me to proceed in initiative order. I'll just insert Anevia and Aravashnials actions as I resolve the PCs'.

I'm not actually gonna do anything else with my turn - I have limited resources and nothing that I really want to do.

I hope this doesn't sound too much like I'm trying to rules lawyer anything; I'm just curious since this has literally never come up in a game I've been in before. Do different sources of concealment stack?

Hmm, I don't know! I didn't even think about that. I don't have time to check right now, does anyone know?

I actually don't know. It's never come up for me before either. :P It suggests that concealment is variable... so two 20% chances would roughly be a 36% chance of being missed (which is what she did). It's very unusual, though. :) I dig it, either way.

Varying Degrees of Concealment

Certain situations may provide more or less than typical concealment, and modify the miss chance accordingly.

I would think that no matter what combination concealment is involved, they can't get higher than total concealment (50%). The reason being that you can always close your eyes and shoot, making any combination of concealment types equal to total concealment.

If they're going to stack, I'd probably avoid dealing with multiplying concealment values. Perhaps each form adds 10% up to a max of 50%? So in dim light, smoke and with blur would be equal to 40%.

Ah, here it is.

Concealment Miss Chance: Concealment gives the subject of a successful attack a 20% chance that the attacker missed because of the concealment. Make the attack normally—if the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance d% roll to avoid being struck. Multiple concealment conditions do not stack.

Sorry, I thought I had seen it somewhere before. The "[blah] of the same type don't stack" thing sticks out in my brain more than it should...

...and I wanted to defend Anevia's honor. :P

Alright, I've been thinking a lot about Ary's growth and where to shove feats and stuff. And while I'm still -completely lost- for the most part (;D), I've got a general idea of a lot of cool things I've been thinking about. Well, cool to me.

1: If I took additional traits later... I think I qualify for the Shield Bearer trait Hrut grabbed. I don't want to step on his toes, though! So... I'm leaving it up to Hrut (and Kiora-lady) to determine if it's okay for me to grab it.

2: Using Automatic Bonus Progression, would it be possible for Ary to choose her shield for her Armor Bonus and her shield spikes as her Weapon Bonus, as separate things? I know 'A shield can be made into a weapon in its own right' is a thing, but I wanted to make sure. I'm thinking that while Ary uses the Inheritor's holy weapon... she's going to be more attached to the shield side of the sword and shield.

Also, everything will always be in flux... as I tend to grow characters based on story rather than some set-in-stone plan.

Alright, I've been thinking a lot about Ary's growth and where to shove feats and stuff. And while I'm still -completely lost- for the most part (;D), I've got a general idea of a lot of cool things I've been thinking about. Well, cool to me.

1: If I took additional traits later... I think I qualify for the Shield Bearer trait Hrut grabbed. I don't want to step on his toes, though! So... I'm leaving it up to Hrut (and Kiora-lady) to determine if it's okay for me to grab it.

2: Using Automatic Bonus Progression, would it be possible for Ary to choose her shield for her Armor Bonus and her shield spikes as her Weapon Bonus, as separate things? I know 'A shield can be made into a weapon in its own right' is a thing, but I wanted to make sure. I'm thinking that while Ary uses the Inheritor's holy weapon... she's going to be more attached to the shield side of the sword and shield.

Also, everything will always be in flux... as I tend to grow characters based on story rather than some set-in-stone plan.

1. I'm fine with it - I don't think its bad to have some similarities between PCs.

2. Sounds good. I like her investment to her family shield. It's something that the ABP rules helps support ;)

If Markus submits his action before I am home from work, don't wait up on me to control Aravashnial and Anevia. Just go ahead with Valaria's turn.

Anevia will be shooting at Millorn, again. Aravashnial will do nothing unless asked to, nicely ;)

Also, I hope the darkmantles are sufficiently irritating, they're a favorite low level encounter of mine ;D

My personal favorite are Akatas. They are my very first experience with scaring the pants off of my player's characters. Give them a dragon, and they just roll their eyes and say 'my character hides'.

Give them a half dozen blue tentacle-covered, medium-sized lions walking along the walls completely silently... and you scare them a little.

It's a great way of saying 'You should not be here', with the caveat of 'yet'. I personally used them to 'herd' the players towards a particular room I wanted them in.

They later discovered why those doors were constantly having -salt- water poured over them.. :p

My personal favorite are Akatas. They are my very first experience with scaring the pants off of my player's characters. Give them a dragon, and they just roll their eyes and say 'my character hides'.

My home players will charge at anything put before them unless explicitly told it is too tough for them via a knowledge check :P

(Or I guess by being super obvious...like placing a huge creature in front of a group of level 1s)

Yeah. I've found that it's hard to communicate danger without that knowledge check. I've been lucky enough to have some players that freak out when they don't -know- what it is in character. When your knowledge character doesn't have the answers... :p

Don't I know it. My usual f2f group's standard response to anything is 'what is it' and if the answer is anything other than 'oh, one of those', we treat it like it's going to eat us alive. Of course, my f2f group loves bards and inquisitors, so we almost always know what we're fighting.

RP night again.

Ary will keep her promise to her companions... to stay back unless she's needed. If Hrut doesn't get free, she'll likely try to aid him... otherwise, she'll hang back and defend who she can from the ceiling grabbers.

Putting this here to keep a long ooc post out of the gameplay thread.

Given that I know Millorn's a wizard and he nearly killed Ary in one shot, meaning I know he's dangerous, I would have saved my AoO to try to parry a touch spell against me since he's within arm's reach. Not that it matters now I suppose. I'll make a note of some modified tactics she'd use on my character sheet. Also, I hate to be a rules lawyer, but Shocking Grasp only gets the +3 to hit if I'm wearing metal armor which I'm not, unless he's got something that makes it better somehow. It still would have hit, but just pointing that out.

Putting this here to keep a long ooc post out of the gameplay thread.

Given that I know Millorn's a wizard and he nearly killed Ary in one shot, meaning I know he's dangerous, I would have saved my AoO to try to parry a touch spell against me since he's within arm's reach. Not that it matters now I suppose. I'll make a note of some modified tactics she'd use on my character sheet. Also, I hate to be a rules lawyer, but Shocking Grasp only gets the +3 to hit if I'm wearing metal armor which I'm not, unless he's got something that makes it better somehow. It still would have hit, but just pointing that out.

Yeah, I thought about the fact that she could parry, but in pbp immediate actions need to be automated to a certain extent. I'll keep that in mind for the next time Valaria has another AoO.

On shocking grasp:

Your successful melee touch attack deals 1d6 points of electricity damage per caster level (maximum 5d6). When delivering the jolt, you gain a +3 bonus on attack rolls if the opponent is wearing metal armor (or is carrying a metal weapon or is made of metal).

I don't mind bringing up rules, especially for combat. (It's not like playing at the table where looking up a rule eats up valuable time.) If I am GM fiat-ing, I usually make it apparent...and if I GM fiat during a fight its usually either to add environmental effects (like the cave fisher thing with Ary), or apply minor circumstantial bonuses/penalties for flavor.

Out of combat though I don't always use the same DCs for skill checks as outlined by RAW (if that was not apparent) so please don't bring up rules discussions in regards to diplomacy checks, etc.

No worries, I forgot to mention that she'd use her Parry to begin with, so it's just a miscommunication. I've added a standard tactics section that should give a basis of how she fights to her character sheet.

On Shocking Grasp:

Oops. *blush* I misread the spell when I checked it. My bad, I wasn't trying to be argumentative, I just wasn't sure if it was a misunderstanding or something. I usually forget that spell even has that bonus. It's kind of really powerful.

So, Valaria, now that Millorn is blind are you still holding back for parry if you can AoO on him?

At this point, it's not worth Parrying, both because of the penalties I'm taking and because he's got a 50% miss chance.

When I rolled that crit, for some reason I envisioned Ehren shooting acid into Millorn's eyes, like that one dinosaur in Jurassic Park did to Nedry... Needless to say, I am more than happy with the actual results. ;D

When I rolled that crit, for some reason I envisioned Ehren shooting acid into Millorn's eyes, like that one dinosaur in Jurassic Park did to Nedry... Needless to say, I am more than happy with the actual results. ;D

Haha, yeah, it made me really happy that it made so much sense! The magic crit table also has some really awesome effects (the best one I've seen so far banished the target to another plane >_> against a will save) so I was excited!

Alrighty. Back home, exhausted!

On Aiding against grapple: I'm not aiding his CMD against being grabbed, I'm aiding his grapple check for breaking the grapple (which he's rolling CMB for). :) I think that one -is- okay. I might be wrong, though. If I am, I don't mind trying to cut it off of him. What's the worst that can happen? :3

Alrighty. Back home, exhausted!

On Aiding against grapple: I'm not aiding his CMD against being grabbed, I'm aiding his grapple check for breaking the grapple (which he's rolling CMB for). :) I think that one -is- okay. I might be wrong, though. If I am, I don't mind trying to cut it off of him. What's the worst that can happen? :3

True, but you need to declare that BEFORE the result is rolled, therefore it would be impossible for Ary to know if he needs help or not (as per the conditions you laid out for your held action:) If you wanted to aid another for CMB, then it would need to be done before Ary is aware if she needs help with the roll or not, which could potentially cause her to aid another on a check that didn't NEED her help in the first place.

If Hrut doesn't get free, she'll likely try to aid him

You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.

This way, he failed his initial CMB, then needed help against the darkmantle's grapple attempt, so Ary aided his CMD. if you don't want to help for CMD, then I can reverse the ruling, it's whatever, lol.

I'm pretty relaxed out of combat about this - like I'm fine with someone trying to hit a DC 12 climb check, rolling a 10, and then asking for aid another. I think that that is a fair and flavorful way to make up for me denying you guys your god given right to take 20. Combat is different though.

Alrighty, I'll try to be more clear. :) I figured +3 to attack would work for CMB or an Attack, depending on what he went for, cause both would benefit from the +3 to an attack roll, and the way she's doing either one is trying to peel the thing off of him.

So, are you treating it as +3 to his CMB to get the thing off, or +3 to hitting it, since I was unclear?

I'm a little afraid for Hrut, either way. :(

Edit: Ah, I didn't list that I was going to aid Attack specifically. That was my intent. She'll probably just be trying to kill it this turn, to get it off, asap.

Alrighty, I'll try to be more clear. :) I figured +3 to attack would work for CMB or an Attack, depending on what he went for, cause both would benefit from the +3 to an attack roll, and the way she's doing either one is trying to peel the thing off of him.

So, are you treating it as +3 to his CMB to get the thing off, or +3 to hitting it, since I was unclear?

I'm a little afraid for Hrut, either way. :(

The aid another you pre-rolled for came into effect in this post, adding +3 to his AC as an untyped bonus, which I applied to his CMD.

A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD. A flat-footed creature does not add its Dexterity bonus to its CMD.

(Unfortunately, CMD does not actually work this way, despite what the d20pfsrd grapple chart says, this is a house ruling, as shown in the above quote.)

So, to break down what happened:

Ary, on her turn, walked over to Hrut and used a successful aid another to add +3 to CMD.

Hrut's CMD was currently: 10 + 1 (BAB) + 4 (Strength) - 1 (Dexterity, due to the -4 to dex you get from being grappled) -2 (Blind) - 2 (Wounded) = 10

Adding aid another as an untyped AC bonus brought him to 13.

The darkmantle rolled CMB, with a +5 circumstantial for the initial successful grapple, rolling a 26, which easily beat 13.

....Mathfinder! Whee!

On a different subject, but still on aid another:

I guess to make things clear, it is unclear if to successfully aid another to AC if you need to threaten the creature who attacks the subject.

I've read a whole bunch of forum posts and RAI appears that aid another to AC should work like bodyguard, all the time. (There are tactics boxes for enemies in APs I have run that make me think that way as well.)

I am ruling like this:

To aid another to add to an attack roll you must threaten the creature that the subject is attacking.

To aid another to add to AC you must "threaten" the ally you are trying to defend (I.e, be adjacent to them, unless you have managed to expand your range of squares you threaten).

This ruling adds more versatility to aid another, imo.

I'm definitely happy with that. I'd been focusing on being in contact with both. It also has the benefit of making it so that me aiding someone on their AC doesn't just result in the bad guy 5 foot stepping away from me to wreck someone. :)

And yeah, I knew untyped bonuses didn't affect CMD for some reason.

I don't have ready access to the CRB atm, but I was going off of the spoiler. :)

Edit: Also, just to make sure you understand: I'm not arguing at all, I'm just trying to make sure I understand. :)

Edit: Also, just to make sure you understand: I'm not arguing at all, I'm just trying to make sure I understand. :)

You guys are so sweet, being all timid about bringing up rules :p

It's okay! I'm always down to learn the rules better.

If I'm exercising my phenomenal cosmic rules-bending GM powerrrrrr I will say so and shut down a rules discussion before it begins.

Just understand that I am unlikely to reverse something that has already happened unless the action has life-or-death consequences.

(Ex: Anevia would have scored a hit on Millorn earlier if I had known concealment does not stack)

It's been my experience that most players on here take great offense to being corrected. :P

It has also been my experience that discussions are often seen as arguments. :(

The two have -made- me timid about bringing up things that I don't fully understand.

Not that it super matters, but you forgot the thing I keep forgetting! Ary gets +1 to Hit and Damage due to being altered into a drow. :) So, that evil, nasty monster is closer to being evil, nasty dead.

Not that it super matters, but you forgot the thing I keep forgetting! Ary gets +1 to Hit and Damage due to being altered into a drow. :) So, that evil, nasty monster is closer to being evil, nasty dead.

Haha, yes, right, got it.

I have a wedding I will be attending today and wont be home until tomorrow night, just an fyi I am not bailing! May be thinking up new concepts but not bailing!LOL

For Alter Self, obviously, and also for other polymorph-based abilities in the future, do you want checks to determine if Li'an (or whomever) knows the details of a certain creature, e.g. Bugbears have an extremely keen sense of smell and are known to track by scent.

For Alter Self, obviously, and also for other polymorph-based abilities in the future, do you want checks to determine if Li'an (or whomever) knows the details of a certain creature, e.g. Bugbears have an extremely keen sense of smell and are known to track by scent.

Li'an has a rank in K.Local so she should have a good base knowledge on humanoids so let's go with:

She can consider the traits of races in the CRB and the featured races in the ARG just common knowledge. (For basic information that pertains to alter self, not necessarily all the nitty gritty details about who can do what SLA for example)

She can make a K.Local check to see if she knows about all of the other, weirder, Paizo races.

Sounds good! Now we just need to avoid getting Hrut and Ary killed :p

I have a wedding I will be attending today and wont be home until tomorrow night, just an fyi I am not bailing! May be thinking up new concepts but not bailing!LOL

It's a nice day... for a white wedding.

It's a nice day... to... start again? :o

It's been my experience that most players on here take great offense to being corrected. :P

It has also been my experience that discussions are often seen as arguments. :(

The two have -made- me timid about bringing up things that I don't fully understand.

I'm here too. I had one game (that I GMed) where one player liked to play fast and loose and the other was a rules lawyer and they got into days-long arguments (nasty, personal ones) on a pretty consistent basis. It happened probably five or six times during the course of the game.

Ary Bishop wrote:

It's been my experience that most players on here take great offense to being corrected. :P

It has also been my experience that discussions are often seen as arguments. :(

The two have -made- me timid about bringing up things that I don't fully understand.

I'm here too. I had one game (that I GMed) where one player liked to play fast and loose and the other was a rules lawyer and they got into days-long arguments (nasty, personal ones) on a pretty consistent basis. It happened probably five or six times during the course of the game.

Ugh, that sounds awful.

But really, (and this directed towards everyone): I promise I won't bite your head off over a rules problem. Understand that I have the final say, though. I promise to be a benevolent overlord ;)

if you get up in a player's face about rules, though, I will not tolerate that. No need to be a jerk about it.

Remember that you need survival to track via scent beyond 30 ft (after adjusting for wind, odor strength, etc)

A creature with the Survival skill and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Survival check to find or follow a track. A creature with the scent ability can attempt to follow tracks using Survival untrained.

The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry’s odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Track feat. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility. Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for airbreathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily. False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.