OOC Discussions over here!
Hey, what about the people and chairs between me and the bugbear?
The people in between were dead and the chairs don't count as difficult terrain, so the Bugbear can just ignore them.
Sure, give me another damageroll
Sure, give me another damageroll
Ok, I rolled for you to speed things up.
Please roll stealth for everyone inside a room even though they are "hidden" next time. You only rolled for the woman...
Due to their circumstance modifiers rolling wasn't necessary. They were immobile and completely behind the crates (they couldn't see you either...). And the darkness, sounds from the main hall and the smell of fresh paint...
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They could have breathed, moved slightly which jiggles armor or cracks the wooden floor or something else. According to core book they could only get a +5 mod at the most (example: "A roaring dragon for DCs involving hearing, and an overpowering stench covering the area for DCs involving scent.") With penalties from armor, low dex / stealth skills and some decent perception rolls from our end, we could have easily noticed them before they sprung traps.
They could have just as well rolled 1's. Pokey even rolled a 20 on his perception check for a 35. He could have noticed an invisible creature if it moved around.
They would need cover to make a stealth to begin with, so that shouldn't be an excuse.
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Normal stealth implies that they can actually see you (like peeking behind the corner of a bush). This is more like standing behind a wall. Unless you can see through the wall they are not visible at all (and invisible and immobile grants a +40). They had aple time to set up the trap and just took 10. Did you beat a 50?
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I am not talking purely about visibility. Sounds and smells could have given them away just as easily. They do not get +40 modifiers for standing still based on the sound that they make. Have you ever tries standing completely still for a long while in a set of armor? Nigh impossible and even so they have to breathe. They would still have to roll stealth rolls.
The modifiers you use are for the spell invisibility specifically which is not in play in this instance.
If they have heavy armor on they have a penalty of at least 5. The distraction of the paint, background noise would be a -2 at most looking at descriptions, but even if we say the crowd makes a noise of a dragon it evens out of the armor penalty. Then we have a 10, on the stealth roll even with possibly a +20 for being immobile (which shouldn't be applicable). Pokey could have made that since he rolled a 35.
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Not according to perception rules. A roaring dragon give a +5 mod at most on hearing checks. I assume the taldan nobles are not producing more sound than a roaring dragon. An overpowering stench gives a +5 mod at most on smell checks. Paint is not an overpowering stench like a troglodytes.
Background noise might increase a DC involving hearing, while competing odors might increase the DC of a check involving scent.
Both of these only give a +2 mod to perception checks.
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Here's a link to it.
Action: Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to observable stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action.
You got a free perception to see the woman, because there was an observable stimulus. You didn't get a free perception to see the men cause there wasn't an observable stimulus.
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Then I already would have been able to hear them from the active perception check (a 33) I made before we opened the curtain... Unless you are claiming a curtain muffles sound and stops smells.
An observable stimulus can be a sound just as well as a sight.
Yeah, the sound of 3 humans breathing in another room whilst standing in a room with 200 shouting and screaming people. That's DC 33? Sorry, it's higher.
Smelling 3 humans in another room over the overwhelming scent of fresh paint whilst standing over the body of a rotting Minotaur? That's DC 33? Sorry, it's higher.
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This has nothing to do with me having too much time on my hands, rather than trying to form a discussion with a GM over the rules. Which are quite clear in the perception section of the core book, but which you are ignoring.
I would have preferred you would use a stealth check for the minions like every other PFS ambush that I encountered to date lets us the moment we entered the room. By your lack of arguments it either being in the scenario (with a set dc) or not, makes me believe that you are improvising this encounter. I don't mind this normally as it could increase the challenge or the fun of the game. But then give us a chance to detect or counter that strategy instead of forcing it on us. Especially since we are already playing up.
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I don't mind this normally as it could increase the challenge or the fun of the game. But then give us a chance to detect or counter that strategy instead of forcing it on us. Especially since we are already playing up.
Yeah, I'm trying to add to the fun.
And about the challenge... It's a year 0 module, which is intended for 4 players and uses very simple enemy options. You are using highly optimized characters, so it should be ok!