Alright, the conflict map is up in the Info bar at the very top of the thread. Sorry I'm spotty on weekends, but I'll try tonight to get that surprise round in. The kids are up though, so I'm out!
If the conflict map at the top isn't making sense to you, here's a quick rundown on Fate Core conflicts:
First, the orange chips are the PCs, labelled by the first letter of your first names.
The black chips are the mud spirits... yep, there's a lot.
The white chips are the figures by the fire, Father Lazarus has the "L".
There's no grid in fate, just zones. On your turn you can move anywhere in your zone without struggle (typically). You can also move up to one zone away without any extra rolls. After this movement you may still take an action (Attack or Create Advantage or Discover).
However, if trying to move within a zone could understandable by blocked by characters in the zone (such as the mud spirits filling zone 2), they may actively oppose your movement.
The reservoir in the middle is marked as [Obstacle +2], because crossing through that zone to another one requires a Swim check of +2 or better.
Crossing either of the streams that flow into or out of the reservoir are free, as those no difficulty there.
*Finally*, and this is important, whether aspects have free invokes on them or not, they are still true. This means that they affect the fiction. For instance, the Thick, Scented, Supernatural Smoke is going to set a minimum difficulty that any shooter would have to pass (regardless of opponents ability to dodge). Likewise, if Serra gets grappled, she won't be able to take any actions that would prevent until she is able to overcome that aspect. So on and so forth.
People first exposed to this system tend to seriously underestimate the power of the Create Advantage move.
A few basic questions
- Orland has an opportunity to resist the mud being flung in his face. Does he resist this on his turn to act, or does this happen right now (in the equivalent of a surprise round)?
- After Orland resists successfully (note the positive thinking), he then can act and create an advantage of his own?
How does he do this? For example, can he shoot a mud creature at point blank range to clear the immediate area of the critters? I assume the thick, scented, supernatural smoke is worse at a distance than point blank?
- can Orland use a fate point to give him a +2 on his roll to resist the advantage the mud spirit is trying to create? Or to add a +2 to one of his stunts?
- can Orland use a special stunt AFTER he resists (such as the Unnaturally Born Leader to shout out some tactical advice and create an advantage for his compatriots?
-By the way, I think I misunderstood some of the skills early on (somehow thought shoot replaced fight), so I will take fight as my last +1 because a Sgt. Major should have that.
the Very Last question - to the team - I think Orland should go after Father Lazarus due to his low initiative but you can try to talk me out of it.
Actually, I thought Orland should be one of the first to go, since he's much closer to the battle scene. I thought it would be odd for me to jump in before I even know there's a conflict going on.
I'm on my phone, so the answers are brief to save me typing :)
- You can resist things, defend, or provide active opposition immediately. That doesn't take you action for the round either.
- Yes, you can then take one of the actions to either attack or create an advantage. Taking things out is an attack, and because these guys are looks you can take out more than one at a time depending on how many shifts of success you have (every shift is 1 point of stress). Creating an advantage is anything else, such as cover fire, drawing attention, shooting a w soon out of these r hand, etc.)
And you're correct, from up class she the smoke isn't an issue.
- You can spend a Fate Point for a +2 bonus to either the resist or the action following (or both) or for a refill on either (or both). But every time you do it is another Fate Point and you need to explain how one of your aspects or an aspect on the table helps you excel here.
I also recommend waiting until after a roll to spend Fate Points. That's always allowed and there's no reason not to.
- Stunts affect actions, so yes, you could take an action with a relevant stunt after the resist.
- Cool, and I'll give you all a chance to rearrange skills if you want.
- Finally, so that means you don't want to take that compel? Don't worry, this one won't cost a Fate point to buy off, but you won't gain a Fate point from it either.
*Oops, I misunderstood "go after Father Lazarus." So what's your take on the compel? Good with ignoring the father until the spirits are no longer a threat?
It's also worth noting: You should try to ply your skills to your advantage. Like, Mog suggested I use a fight roll to defend. But I could easily argue a speed roll. So if I had a better speed, I could use that. One of the things I really like about Fate is that people do things in different ways. As I said before, it's okayi to lose. But it's also important to note that you can generally finagle things towards a win as long as you can explain why you think something should work that way.
Like, take a door that's locked. You could argue to pick it with gamble, but you could also easily argue tools/craft. Or you could maybe leverage something else if it fits your character. Like Physique/Brawn: Just let the door stay locked, that doesn't mean you can't open it!
You should always try to leverage the fiction to your character's advantage. Be MacGyver. If we think it shouldn't work that way, we'll let you know. :) Just remember, MacGyver probably had a stunt to use tools for anything as long as he had a fate point to spend. :)
OK, based upon Huey's comment, I will take a go with Orland.
Let me know if I did that right.
Hey, here's a cool article for those trying to get their head around this fate thing. I really enjoyed it at least.
Just a warning - I am having some real issues connecting to the paizo site lately - tonight is the first time in two days I have gotten in.
So this may impact my ability to post if it continues....
Is anyone else having these issues?
Yes! Same with me. I'm not even getting the "sorry, paizo must be down" goblin. I'm just unable to connect most of the time. So it probably isn't just us.
It is kind of frustrating. Hard to keep a rhythm of a game going when you can't check for a few days.
I find it challenging in the game I am running (a Strange Aeons AP set in a Golarion Renaissance [think three musketeers meet Cthulhu]).
So I feel your pain.
But, I also know how much I am paying Paizo to host this forum (that would be $0.00).
Exactly. As frustrating as it is, they provide a pretty awesome service.
It's also only happened like twice in the years I've been using them. Which is honestly really good. That's excluding any times they've forewarned us. :)
Hey! I'm up! Huge apologies everyone. Posting as soon as I have a chance. I think I missed Huey's latest post and was under the impression that I was waiting.
Actually, scratch that 'I won't use a fate point to succeed with style'. I'll totally do that. Cause I can see a lot of ways getting him to talk could come in handy.
I'm sorry I haven't posted in a long time. Real life drama, classes, and net issues have made it difficult. I'm working to organize everything and hope to get a decent posted rate going for all my games. If I need to be removed or botted I understand
No worries, Nora. I was out of town for about 4 days myself. I brought the phone, but no computer, so I wasn't able to update regarding Serra's roll. I'm back now and should be more on top of that since I'm back in town.
If you need the priest to be distracted at all, you've got a good opportunity to use that limited time boost, folks. :) Or, you know, anything else you could use it for. Maybe Amaziah wants to keep him talking, or something. :)
Something worth noting: The mudmen are very likely what is known as 'Mooks' in the game system.
Mooks form Mobs together to act in concert. They basically exist to use the 'help' action on one another, allowing one of them more of a chance to succeed.
One of the important rules that may not be readily apparent is that mobs count as a single creature with multiple hit points in many ways. If you shoot a Mob of enemies, for example, or fight against a mob of enemies, the damage you deal with your attack is automatically splash damage if it's enough to take one out.
So, let's pretend that each mud man has 1 hp. That means that for every positive shift (+1 after you subtract whatever they roll for their attempt at defending) you get on your attack roll with say, shoot, you'd take out a mud man. So if Nora gets up close and personal and rolls a 6, she'd take out six mud men, assuming the fiction supported it (I.E. them all being in the same zone as her).
They might have more stress to take, though, on a hit-by-hit basis, depending on how the DM built them. Maybe it takes two shifts to take one out. Regardless, it's important to note that attacking 'the horde of zombies' doesn't take your whole turn to kill one zombie. Your whole turn can easily be running to a nearby zone for safety and then unloading your full gun into the horde and then reloading while quipping with a one-liner. :)
Good advice! And yes, these guys are mooks. It's big numbers, so they're nasty in groups, but you'll notice that Nora's 3 stress hit took one out completely and another partially. These are tougher than your typical mooks, but they have some serious hindrances as Serra is noting as well. Likewise, you don't have a lot at stake here, so it's a great place to take a concession if you start feeling overwhelmed. What do you really have at risk here other than yourselves? (And what happens to yourselves can be heavily mitigated by concession).
So team - I think Orland is still standing and it is his turn to act (I think)....so, go after the father or try to put down mooks or something else? I can't tell if the odd shaped skull is a clue or a red herring or just color or a hint for further development (when we figure out all these skulls have the shape of Gray Aliens).
I will give it a few hours for advice and then post an action.
It's just color :) there's no secret hints there.
I was hoping for the alien Gray skull!
Although honestly, if you have an idea there that you would want to run with, you can create it as an advantage as if you "realized" or "noticed" it. It would probably use your Occult/Faith skill.
Apologies for the radio silence! My birthday was this week and my wife surprised me by kidnapping me for a vacation. Things will return to normal for me next week!
You fiend!
Guys - the pace of posting isn't working out for me. We have had 14 posts or so since June 23 (13 days ish).
So I am going to withdraw from the game.
I find it hard to learn the game when I have to spend time refreshing where we stand due to our pace.
I have enjoyed gaming with you, and the creative process of making characters was a good time.
I think Fate will work better in person (and may try to find an open game at GenCon this year).
Thanks for the game, and be safe out there!
Alrighty, enjoy! The pacing's been a bit rough, yeah. I think the main thing honestly is that we have too many people to begin with, which leaves too much to track, too much down time, too much danger to make it 'fair' without just adding in random danger midway... Iunno.
Thanks for giving it a shot, Orland. And yes, this game works far better in person. Hopefully you got a taste of it and I appreciate your willingness!
And yeah, you have a really good point Serra. Often games with less people move quicker as there's less to coordinate. We'll see how it moves with four now. I also disappeared for nearly two weeks, as it was the break between terms and we went out of town for a while.
So we may have lost Nora and Amaziah. It's been a slow moving game and I understand completely how interest and motivation drops along with the pace.
Here's my thought though, to run by Serra and Huey if still interested: I offer a concession for this conflict--moving us ahead to a new scene focusing on the two of you. But to do so, I want to know what you two are after in this scene, so I can grant you a victory but still narrate a compromise.
What are you after most? Information? Stopping Father Lazarus? Recovering Lester for a proper burial? Be warned that whatever you choose puts the other ones on the table as potential compromises.
I would be fine with any option. But unless someone thinks differently, I think that the most logical thing to do is to find out what Father Lazarus was accomplishing, and then to do what's necessary to prevent anything bad from happening because of that.
I think Nora is still interested in returning. Information is the important thing to me, as well. :)
I am still here. Just confused and maybe a little lost. Should have asked a question instead of staying silent. Still very interested in the character and the campaign. It would probably help me if someone could explain what sort of things could happen here in the context of the game rules.
Certainly, Amaziah!
As for now, I'm pretty sold on conceding. This is something that PCs can do (and I encourage you to make use of it! It's counter-intuitive to how most games work, but is really powerful in Fate games).
A concession is something that anyone may offer in the midst of a conflict. To concede, you remove yourself from the conflict and your opponent achieves what he/she/they are after. Beyond that, however, you get to dictate some of the remaining terms.
For example: You could concede in a conflict, but dictate that rather than being killed you are left for dead, or perhaps captured. You could also concede, letting the opponent capture whoever you were trying to protect, but declare that they left something significant behind or you were able to gather important information out of it, etc.
The degree of compromise in a concession depends on how far the conflict has progressed by that point. If you concede early in a conflict, little has already been decided so you have lots of leeway in being able to claim that you escape, or stowaway, or capture something first, etc. If you wait until you are nearly incapacitated, you become much more limited on what you can still declare.
For example: You end up in some massive barroom brawl and almost immediately decide that this isn't really a very valuable "victory" for you. You concede and state that maybe you get pushed around a bit but leave quickly. You'll lose a little face for what looks like fleeing, but that's it. -OR- You could play a lot of it out, but by the time you're really roughed up and pinned on the ground with a gun pointing at you, you finally decide to concede... this time you can really only state that you get out with your life, and maybe the clothes on your back, but don't expect to hang onto your cash, weapons, or anything else... and you're sure as hell going to be sore!
Most importantly, conceding gets you free Fate Points. It's a mechanical way of representing the common story arch of taking a beating early to kick butt later. You get 1 free Fate Point when you concede, as well as an additional free Fate Point for each consequence you received during that conflict. So if you got really beat up before raising the flag, you get more points out of it.
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This really is an incredibly valuable tool, especially since the way this game is set up gives me a fairly constant flow of Fate Points to use against you. This means that while you also have the means to use your own points to make sure that you're awesome, it's not feasible to do so constantly. I believe the idiom that gets thrown around is, "Your characters can do anything, but not everything." So it's a valuable skill being able to recognize what stakes are worth burning Fate Points on and which ones are worth letting go early (so you can gain Fate Points to spend on what really grabs you).
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In the current situation, I am offering to concede on behalf of Father Lazarus. However, things haven't gotten very difficult for him, so I have a lot of leeway in how this plays out. The most important element is ensuring that you guys get what you desire most out of this -- you win the conflict after all. However, several other things are on the table for you to compromise. If you aren't solely after capturing Father Lazarus, I can guarantee that he'll get away. If your main goal is to capture him, then it's likely that he'll have time to sabotage some things or complete other goals first.
Huey already destroyed the ritual fire, so him completing his ritual isn't on the table anymore (see how waiting to concede slowly dwindles options?), but he might be able to destroy the body, cover up his tracks, or even do something to himself.
Hence the reason I ask: what is the highest priority out of this conflict, because when I concede that is something that cannot, by any means, be taken from you.
In fact, here's the most significant decision point I currently see: my guess is that you're either after Father Lazarus himself, or good information regarding what's happening here.
If you want a good chance to really check everything out, Father Lazarus is getting away. But if you want to capture him, he's going to destroy and tamper with the situation first to try to keep you all in the dark.
There may be other more significant priorities, but those are the two that seem most clear to me.
If we're still planning on going ahead, maybe it would be easier to understand what Lazarus' conceding would entail if we had a broader view of what might happen afterwards. Everyone who voiced an opinion seems to have wanted information, so how would we be able to move on from there?
This hasn't at all gotten the attention it needs, and I've lost touch with my character, so I'm going to back out. Sorry it didn't work out, Mog.
Indeed, I apologize to everyone. I was really excited about this to start, but last week I was on vacation and this week I've found that I'm really struggling to get into it with the recent changes.
Thank you all for giving it a shot, and I've been thoroughly impressed with the effort an intention those of you that remain have put into it. Again, I'm not sure what I can do other than apologize sincerely for my role in letting this drop.