|
So is this "indentured" business part of the scenario? How much a derail would it be if Jamir were to spit in her face and walk out?
EDIT to clarify: the question is not intended as a criticism if this is not part of the scenario. I am asking because If this is something Luckless has added, then I assume he will adapt it to the characters' reactions - when you have a character who walks around with a great big red button in the middle of his chest, the GM isn't going to push it if he isn't looking for a reaction. But if it is in the scenario, then we are stuck riding the railroad and Jamir won't screw it up.
So is this "indentured" business part of the scenario? How much a derail would it be if Jamir were to spit in her face and walk out?
EDIT to clarify: the question is not intended as a criticism if this is not part of the scenario. I am asking because If this is something Luckless has added, then I assume he will adapt it to the characters' reactions - when you have a character who walks around with a great big red button in the middle of his chest, the GM isn't going to push it if he isn't looking for a reaction. But if it is in the scenario, then we are stuck riding the railroad and Jamir won't screw it up.
It's not in the scenario but, is a part of Irrisen canon..(they have lots of serfs, indentured servants, and outright slaves that are treated no better than animals. In fact, monsters like Ice trolls and winter wolves have more rights in Irrisen than these poor folk.) Having said all that. Jamir would have already know all this.
If this leaves such a sour taste in your/his mouth that, you cannot suffer it.. I'd prefer we you write a short note to Haltani/Uliyara .. telling her what you feel..I'll hand wave the caravan that they've arranged. And much like(same as) the module; I won't give you further backstory on how got attached to a merchant caravan, traveling through Irrisen. We'll pick up the story outside of Whitethrone as the Scenario suggest. (seriously it just says you joined a merchant caravan... it doesn't go into to details of how xenophobic the Jadwigga are until you're in the middle of their country!)
So if this totally breaks with you're characters convictions ..and there's just no way you could see how actually integrating yourself with the local slave population and make alliances and friends among them while you traveled weeks with them. If there is nooo way you think an emancipator would be interested in setting up a safe travel route for escaped slaves, through the traders that already traveled the country...(underground railroad wasn't "really" underground)... Then we can hand wave it all, and just say you found some merchants that were not slaves and somehow got hundreds of miles inland, without the aid of the locals, in extremely hostile lands.(just as written in the scenario)
I really do apologize for the tongue and cheek here.. but, come on guys! Work with me..This place is full of slaves and they are used as beast of burdens. Are you seriously angry at me for adding something strait out of the campaign books? Or would you like me to play these strait up as written? I know I can't change encounters or important NPC's, but adding to the flavor of the actual nation your adventuring in that's out of line?
I do understand you're not trying to criticize and you want to remain true to your character. But, I maintain Jamir would be a fool to pass on an opportunity to freely associate with the oppressed of Irrisen..and oh yes spitting in the daughter of a Baroness face..um there's a few outcomes to that...one of which is...I haven't even started the official adventure yet ..so if I roll-played she walked away from you, I wouldn't be orphaning a group.
If you can't make it work that Jamir would ever travel as a slave; lets just skip to the start and I'll write the opening dialog box ok? After that, I'll keep the fluff to a minimum and we'll stay focused with the scenario alone.
|
Well, to be fair, he never said he couldn't or even that he wouldn't make it work. He was just wondering about a few things so he could figure out how best to role play it. He even seemed sure you would adapt well to whatever reactions the characters had. That was how I read it at least.
In the end, I think his role play choice was great, as was the response.
I'm not stressing on it. Ana... these guys have seen me go off on worse rants. I'm frustrated with some of the PFS writing... there is literally no connectivity to put the PCs a few miles out of Whitethrone other than what I make up. So to have two weeks + of stream of consciousness roll- playing and multiple lengthy entries written on threads taken hours of my week away just to get to a point I think it's reasonable to start and connect the dots as it were ... possible flushed away... um well that irks me a little. I don't enjoy playing these scenarios "strait out of the box". Because, they lack substance. Now I'm not telling Jamir to roll over and play ball or else...
What I am questioning is why as a character choice he'd chose to alienate Uliyara and Walk away from a potential to help indentured people? Cause really the only reason not to go on this mission ( other than the inherent dangers) would be pure pride. I would hope the other members of the group would talk him Into going at some point.
And to be perfectly honest we could roll-play the prelude here till our eyes turn blue. But, I feel I've presented a reasonable reason how your party could travel hundreds of miles through Irrisen without arousing suspicion already. Jamir is not the only party member and he is free to roll play his character as he wants him reflected. But, on that same vein I'm free to play NPC's that are not included in the scenario the way I would think they'd react if a hostile or disrespectful act was intruded on them.
Lastly, does any of this matter? There is a well known Pathfinder abducted and being held by the shadow lodge; are Jamir's goals really more important than the Pathfinders as a whole? If so we should be playing in campaign mode and stop these little scenarios. It will be interesting to see how he resolves this. But I assure i didn't present this to specifically challenge Jamir's code... if fact I wasn't even thinking about his back story when I wrote the entries. It just made the most sense to me.
|
|
Lucklesshero, please take another look at my question and then your responses. I asked a pretty reasonable "sandbox or railroad" question, then clarified it because I didn't want to come off as pissy about it. If we were all sitting at a table and you had just answered the question, the party could have a conversation about it and decide how to RP it out. Instead, you've pretty much told me how you want me to play it, and that's that.
I'm going to take my son to our FLGS for Free RPG Day, and think about what Jamir does next. I'll post in a few hours. But I have to tell you, the next time I'm concerned about derailing the scenario, I'm going to be reluctant to ask.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Sorry Jamir, I'm out of line as usual. It's been a long haul getting to this point and most of it is not even the exposition length. But, much of the delay is due to technical problems with Paizo servers. I am not telling you how to play your character. It's not my story and never will be ...it's a collaborative effort and I would hate it if you feel pushed in to a certain decision because the GM , "will take his ball and go home." If you don't play it the way I expect.( I should have never wrote that "Orphaned campaign bit",no mater how much I'm kidding.)
But, the rest I only regret a little. Mostly due to I write/talk before I think. It doesn't make my feelings less valid at the time I express them. Just not put into context, or even thought through thoroughly, from the other person's perceptive. I had a DM one time that had a very railroady campaign that, I eventually just asked to be written out of. So, I'd feel your frustration, if I felt that were the case. I don't know, maybe it's the meta verbiage. So I'll spell out my frustration with your question as succinctly, as possible; not as an excuse, but in order for you, to better understand why I got irritated.
1. It's always frustrating way you put time and effort in to a "hook" as a GM and then the PCs for one reason or another decide to ignore or reject that "hook" for one reason or another.
2. While a PCs rejecting hooks is frustrating at the table; it can be dealt with in real time, on the fly, by a competent GM. If that GM, has even a moderate amount, of imagination and improve skills. Whilst PbP, it involves literal days or weeks of re-writes and/or ret-cons. Because of the nature of the format.
3. PFS by it's very nature, is restrictive and . I've just started playing as well as GMing and among the 6 scenarios and 5 GM's Iv'e played...I've only enjoyed one game as a satisfying roll-playing experience. Therefore, I like to keep my PFS games that I GM, as story orientated as possible. Some people will tell you this is just a matter of style and taste. I with no reservation, say BS to that, remark. If you want to play a roll-playing game, your here to make a story. If your in it for the action, your probably not in my game. (So again apologize if you feel railroaded)
4. PbP it seems to me; has an un-written social contract. That players recognize the GM is most likely putting in 2x-3x as many entries as some/most players.(this group may be an exception, most of you post abundantly as me maybe more) And often those entries are longer and involve much more research as far as recalling various npc names, locations, factions, and plot points. Where as the character only need respond to what the GM provides him or play off of other PCs. So the contract would imply, try to work the GM on the content he's providing you so as, he/she need not re-write the whole play in order to fit your character's needs. ( I realize that you clarified by stating):
EDIT to clarify: the question is not intended as a criticism if this is not part of the scenario. I am asking because If this is something Luckless has added, then I assume he will adapt it to the characters' reactions - when you have a character who walks around with a great big red button in the middle of his chest, the GM isn't going to push it if he isn't looking for a reaction. But if it is in the scenario, then we are stuck riding the railroad and Jamir won't screw it up.
Perhaps I felt your clarification answered your own question. As I loathe to outright tell a player "stay on the rails on this one please."
5. Lastly and most simply, we're on the clock on this one. I'd be happy to roll-play this out with you; perhaps, even roll-play some time in the Dalun dungeons, after you spit in the face of Jadwigga nobility (most likely a death sentence in most cities in Irrisen). Perhaps you escape, or perhaps the nobility let you out conditionally, and send you and your friends on a mission a-la Snake Pliskin...escape from New York.. Or maybe you escape Dalun before the consequences can come reigning down and we roll play your group on the run across Irrisen. But, that's not what we're playing right now. We're playing a scenario that has you in a caravan and it's for PFS credit. So yea as I'm finding out as a PFS player myself the hard way... You're always on the rails when playing PFS.So let me end by saying this; please forgive me for my outburst. By now, you all are well aware my personality is one that, "I'd rather beg for forgiveness, than ask for permission, type." Furthermore, I understand the entire point of your post was just to ask? "Do I need to stay on the rails here?" And I somehow, blew-up over that. Call it finals stress..a busy week or whatever other lame excuse I might offer...I'm still sorry.
And as for what I should have answered you the first time. "Stay on the rails as best you can as I've laid out for you please on this one. We're on a bit of a time crunch and I don't have the time or inclination to re-write the narrative. thx for understanding...Lucklesshero"
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
It took four hours, driving to two game stores and then getting stuck in godawful traffic, but we snagged a copy of FIRST CONTACT, the Starfinder mini-bestiary that is Paizo's giveaway for Free RPG Day! Two words:
Space. Goblins.
Two more:
Space. Undead.
Haven't had time to read all the way through it because I was driving and because my kids snagged it first (curse their dexterous hands!), but what I have seen looks pretty good.
Lucklesshero: Thanks for your last post. As far as I'm concerned, we're good. I appreciate the time you put into this, and that's part of why I asked in the first place - and I could have been more artful in the way I asked as well.
Jamir will update soon.
|
My faction reward for The Exchange faction that I will have earned at the end of this scenario allows me to make Day Job checks untrained, and to receive in remuneration from The Exchange faction an equivalent amount of gold that I've paid in bribes, living expenses, or other non-permanent costs during an adventure, up to the amount of gold that I earn during my Day Job check (minimum 25gp)! It's brilliant!
|
|
Lia will activate her wand of mage armor just before they enter the city. -1 charge marked on the spreadsheet and my char.
She has a Bond to the Land(Cold) and I applied that giving her a +2 dodge bonus to AC, but for any reason if you think that doesn't apply I will adjust it.
She will also cast message on the party so they can communicate quietly. it only has a duration of 10 mins/level so she will need to reactivate it every 10 mins. Rang is 110' and doesn't need a direct line, so just mouth the words and whisper.
|
I am sorry that my distrust of Ake nearly derailed the entire mission. It now seems like he is integral to the entire plot.
I'm still not sure that I like putting so much weight onto the shoulders of some random merchant. He's going to sneak us in, deliver us to the warehouse, feed us, clothe us, etc, etc.
Maybe we should contract this guy to bring down the entire Shadow Guild?
It doesn't seem like we have much choice in the matter, so let's get on with sneaking into the city, I guess.
BTW: This is not a complaint of any kind. I think Luckless is doing a great job of turning this module into a real adventure.
I just am not sure what role Jawhar really plays so far. He is so far out of his element...
Guys this has all been 100% filler! The scenario hasn't even started yet! So if you feel lost don't fret.. Jamir I'd like to hear your response to Ake, when you get the time. I will bot Torvald from here on out.
The next post I make is going to be complete railroad. Keep in mind this is not me this is the way the scenario was written and everything I've written thus far is how I tied it into the beginning of this scenario. So good news your about to " begin ". Bad news is you might not like the choices you have to make. Just roll with it cause there are some fun elements of this scenario and some interesting combats if it gets that far.
Good luck!
I posted my response to Ake under the spoiler last night - did I miss another?
nope ur good I missed the spoiler, expect me to post tonight..,to kick this thing off
guys/gal, I am not steering u one way or the other...but there are ways in to Whitethrone, other than bluffing your way through the gate. I just want to make sure that's your choice before we proceed.
I'm going to roll with Jamir's bluff roll backed up by Jawhar's and Lia's aid another..if you decide to proceed to the gates. Jamir will need to give me a short dialogue on why your group approaches on foot. (almost everyone of means travels in sled but some trappers and traders appear to on foot or leading their mounts.)..When Jamir is through with his dialoge..I'll need an sleight of hand or dexterity check to pass the bribe unobserved and another diplomacy check...
|
|
One does not simply walk into Whitethrone...
So before I post anything, I'm going to go back over what we have been told about ways into the city. I'm happy to go with bluffing if I don't see anything easier. Any objections to the old "oops - teleportation error" gambit? "We were supposed to appear at our favorite inn, but the mistress, well, she doesn't always hit the target..."
You guys can make perception checks to see if you spot another caravan before the gates close. You'll want to do this further away from the walls. It's still over an hour away before sunset (call it an 1hr 15min). You'll of coarse, want to travel several hundred yards back towards the east (the direction you came from) and then cut back to the road to intercept possible merchants out of site of the guards. Also there's the chance that the monsters that attacked your caravan, may still be looking for you.
If you do decide to look for a merchant caravan before the night falls:
1.Figure 15-20min of hiking through the snowy terrain to cut back to the road
2. 5 min of negotiating and/or bribing
3. If they accept 5 min. of preparation to conceal you withing their wagons/sleds and then 5-10min to the gate..(total time 35-40min)
4. If you don't convince a merchant to hide you or you don't find one
a. it's a 15 min walk back on the road. (30-35 min)
b. If you fail diplomacy by enough the merchant may report you to the guards
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've been thinking. Each and every step away from the truth makes a lie less believable and that much more difficult to sell. All the ideas so far have been fine with one thing lacking, that shred of truth.
Whatever we say, we should include the following facts:
1) Our original caravan was attacked and destroyed and that drove us to foot.
2) We barely survived ourselves but lost many friends.
Our identities and our reason for being here are all the bluff we need to worry about.
If we decide we need to meet and convince another merchant caravan to help us, we don't need to have them hide us. We just need to have them offer some road decency to fellow merchants that have lost much, and that only seek to gain entrance to the city to recoup their losses.
Playing the roles you outlined for us, fit well within this narrative and the true emotions each of our characters feel regarding the losses we suffered will lend credence to the bluff.
At the city gates, we play it as you originally planned and it works smoothly. Dice rolls are one thing, but the ideas and the role play are always better than a die roll(or at least will likely lend a modifier).
I am hesitant to try and back track and look for a caravan only because, as Luckless mentioned, the foes that attacked us may still be seeking us and any step back runs the risk of encountering them again.
I say we just head to the gates, mix in with any late arriving groups and keep it simple. I am sure there is a main road and it should be easy to see a group from far enough away to mix in.
|
|
Ok, that makes sense. Bluff DC goes up when the lie gets less believable. Bandits, then?
I'd like Jawhar or Craggark to come to the front with Jamir - the swashbuckler is less persuasive when he's telling the truth, so if we need to add a diplomacy check to his bluff, Jamir will need the AA bonus when he rolls (or he could give the AA to one of our diplomats instead).
Ohh can't wait to read the dialogue! Remember it is permissible for me to give out small circumstance bonuses if your bluff/ diplomacy is particularly compelling..btw? Do you want me to count your prepatorary diplomacy rolls as your introduction and approach at the gates? If so I'll need to know who is the primary talker.. the rest will aid the primary. Also this will involve most likely more than one roll so don't let it take you off guard if I ask for other rolls
|
|
No I thought that Runa was a good cover, so let's stick with that. I just meant avoid the teleport story and stick instead with the ambushed caravan if it comes up.
Keep all the roles the same as outlined by Jawar's post.
"Runa will act imperious and aloof, while her herald...", here Jawhar indicates Jamir, "...announces her presence and shows the letter and passes along a small gift for the guard's trouble. Meanwhile, her bodyguard...", signaling Craggark, "...and porter, stand by and look disinterested. Seems pretty straightforward, I think. Nobles, and people operating on their authority should be fairly simple to emulate." Touch of Glory for everyone (+1 to a Cha attempt for 1 hour).
-Posted with Wayfinder
Are u guys waiting for me? Or is everyone just busy? If you're waiting for me let me know cause as of right now I still have you outside the walls an hour before sunset.. you haven't approached the gate yet
|
|
Sorry for the delay, lost track of who was starting us off, and was offline last night - my wife took her first shot at GMing - PSS 8-06, Reaping What We Sow. It's a fun scenario (we did not use the Horror Adventures options available for it), clearly written for a Halloween night session, and we had a great time.
OK yes assume Torvald will help carry the chest. Also sorry I missed a post yesterday..Independence day my dog wen crazy so I had very little sleep returning to class on Wednesday and a ton of homework. I'm getting caught up on several things today this among them.
|
|
OK yes assume Torvald will help carry the chest. Also sorry I missed a post yesterday..Independence day my dog wen crazy so I had very little sleep returning to class on Wednesday and a ton of homework. I'm getting caught up on several things today this among them.
No problem! The fireworks sounded like a war zone in our neighborhood - they were still banging away and waking us up at 1:30pm.
|
|
1. Get In
2. Kill All the Shadow Lodgers
3. Sleep there for the night
4. Leave first thing in the morning
OR...
1. Try to bluff our way into some type of pass from the soldiers
2. Arrange for a room at an inn
3. See first section above
My preference is number 1, though number 2 does allow for the completely unreasonable expectation that number 1 won't work. ;)
Regardless, getting out of this city alive will require us to complete our assignment as quickly and quietly as possible.
|
|
I would be all for plan #1 but this darn hypothermia could really be a problem under certain circumstances. I can't heal the damage or the condition until I warm up. If we have to run for any reason, and that could happen since we are pathfinders in Irrisen after all, it could easily lead to exhaustion or worse and that will be a burden to everyone.
So I offer one minor change. I say we head to the Iron Barracks and register, because I don't want to be hunted by the police while we are here and since the Barracks are really close to the gate, the ledger will likely get there before we make much headway to our target. I will of course roll with whatever the group decides.
|
|
Yes, the hypothermia is a problem. The damage we can deal with fairly quickly, if we can get you warm.
Anyone have a potion of cold resistance? That worked in Under the Ice...
Barring that, taking time to register would buy her time to warm up.
-Posted with Wayfinder