Dungeon World PBP play (Inactive)

Game Master Elsine

I play in this and one other DW game here on paizo as a PC. I also GM a space-DW campaign here on paizo and a FFG Star Wars game on gamersplane.

What do you think of FFG Star Wars? I GMed it for a year and while the dice facilitated some good highlights I found the narrative dice to be really restrictive as a GM.

The conversation about results in FFG Star wars is like:

"You succeed, and..."
"You succeed..."
"You succeed, but..."

"You fail, but..."
"You fail..."
"You fail, and..."

And then you have the triumph or despair on top of that letting you critical or fumble independent of success which gets difficult to explain without just hand waiving. In fact, I found myself hand-waving a lot of the rolls and even rerolling things a lot which is something I really hate in games - I want my players to roll once and then move on reacting to the success or failure or face a consequence.

Add in how brutally lethal the system is combined with how much mastery is expected to survive I just didn't find it especially fun to run. My players seemed to be fine, but while we all loved the ending everyone was frustrated by the system not allowing for extended action sequences very well between stress, wounds, and critical hits.

I did like the destiny pool, although my players began hording light-side points instead of passing them back and forth to give themselves an advantage. I also liked the item customization and specialization trees, though the stats were too asymmetric. Even in a combat light game you still really need to gear up for combat just to not die from a single bad roll.

That... ended up being a little bit of a rant.

You found the system lethal? I found it maddeningly difficult to kill my players. You can knock them out pretty easily, but it takes a lot of sustained firepower to put anyone down for good.

EDIT: Cross-posted this but I'll leave it.

I love the system. I'm not sure I understand why this is a problem:

"You succeed, and..."
"You succeed..."
"You succeed, but..."

"You fail, but..."
"You fail..."
"You fail, and..."

I like the addition of the succeed but/fail and options.

I think the key is delinking the and/but options from the actual action that triggered it, just like some of the DW GM moves. The advantage/threat and triumph/despair don't have to have anything to do with the skill check. You can kind of look at it like a binary pass/fail that gives some guidance on the tone of the next GM "move" (really bad/bad/good/ really good).

I actually find it to be one of the least lethal systems around. I've played a great deal and never had a PC die. It's very easy to get knocked out of a fight, but that 140+ on a crit roll just isn't going to happen that often.

You found the system lethal? I found it maddeningly difficult to kill my players. You can knock them out pretty easily, but it takes a lot of sustained firepower to put anyone down for good.

I don't really view killing my players as a DM goal so I never stressed about it.

Maybe it's the definition of lethal that matters, because during the most difficult action part of the campaign building up to the reveal of the "main" villain they were knocked out several times and retreated to regroup. I could have literally knocked the entire party out when they fought (175XP characters) force using rivals and nemesis with ease. No one liked "well X got knocked out, let's drag him back to safety and shoot him full of bacta" and strain thresholds were really slow to recover from. It just lost the cinematic Star Wars feel to the campaign.

I'm well aware of how difficult death itself is - I thought at the wound threshold you just kept receiving critical hits... and getting anything above 150 on the crit table took work.

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We switched systems midstream, so before using RuneQuest 6 and this I had them going from exploring dangerous mines and getting out by the skin of their teeth and battling mandalorian bounty hunters across the entire city in a series of very intense sense involving explosives, snipers, droids, accidentally robbing a bank, and ending in the much more heavily armed bounty hunters being taken down with good tactics and playing a little dirty. Immediately when we switched things either were immediately trivialized by force powers and anytime I caught them off-guard someone went down (normally the Jedi).

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I like the addition of the succeed but/fail and options.

I think the key is delinking the and/but options from the actual action that triggered it, just like some of the DW GM moves. The advantage/threat and triumph/despair don't have to have anything to do with the skill check. You can kind of look at it like a binary pass/fail that gives some guidance on the tone of the next GM "move" (really bad/bad/good/ really good).

I actually find it to be one of the least lethal systems around. I've played a great deal and never had a PC die. It's very easy to get knocked out of a fight, but that 140+ on a crit roll just isn't going to happen that often.

Well knocked out is still the bigger issue because it leaves their character in my hands entirely. Also, starship fights are super lethal.

I just found the granularity extremely unnecessary. I like the dice saying "succeeed", "succeed with a complication", and "GM invervention" because it allows a huge range of action on my part versus being tied to the dice result. I'm a big fan of powered by the apocalypse games because of it.

I cleaned up the posts a bit for my own benefit.

Now the ending of the campaign could only happen with the FFG system and was pretty amazing to play through it in what turned into a 6+ hour session that ended the campaign about 4-5 sessions early.

It's set in the late clone wars, and as the threat of Order 66 loomed the propagandist droid tried to inspire the clone troopers into action and managed to succeed with a crazy roll... but with despair. So he did calm the troops and stop acting in such a strange and off-putting manner - by convincing them to immediately hunt the Jedi in the party and take care of him.

Next came the Jedi and his secret consort/bodyguard running and hiding and generally being stalked across a star destroyer in a tense but fun series of events, finding the droid propagandist who then got the clones off their trail, the droid starts working the PA system to get the clones to an airlock where he jettisoned them into space.

The jedi and consort looped back around and picked him up only to meet up with a character that was retired because things were getting too heavy for the wookie. They retreat into a hole in Nar Shaddaa where they get by and lay low as information about the empire trickles in. Then they just... retired. The Jedi after a long conversation with Yoda was convinced to stay away and survive for the good of the galaxy, and we had the mostly happy ending no one expected to see.

Conwall wrote:

You found the system lethal? I found it maddeningly difficult to kill my players. You can knock them out pretty easily, but it takes a lot of sustained firepower to put anyone down for good.

I don't really view killing my players as a DM goal so I never stressed about it.

I don't TRY to kill my players (I use the DW principles all over the gaming world) but I do like my players to know that I CAN kill them if I need to. Otherwise they get super cocky

Yeah, I agree that you want the players to know they will die if they blindly rush into things. Even in a game where it's hard to die like D&D I like to use injury and massive damage rules to make combat a threat all the time.

Here's the lethality I like: if you get hit hard unexpectedly you need to start thinking of how to escape but you don't die outright without relatively extreme misfortune, but you still escape under your own power. I also like games where they give options for what happens when you die; a heroic last stand.

I know a lot of this is just differences in taste, but I still like talking about games and trying new ones.

Yeah, I agree that you want the players to know they will die if they blindly rush into things. Even in a game where it's hard to die like D&D I like to use injury and massive damage rules to make combat a threat all the time.

Here's the lethality I like: if you get hit hard unexpectedly you need to start thinking of how to escape but you don't die outright without relatively extreme misfortune, but you still escape under your own power. I also like games where they give options for what happens when you die; a heroic last stand.

I know a lot of this is just differences in taste, but I still like talking about games and trying new ones.

I don't think I've ever seen a player get one shot. In my experience my players quickly learn how fragile they are. More than one group has awakened in an imperial prison or the dungeon of some crime boss.

My personal ranking of systems is:
1. PbtA (primarily Dungeon World)
2. FFG Star Wars
3. 13th Age

But I haven't branched too far out into the indie scene. I run a live 5e game and feel like I'm constantly fighting the system.

I agree, sometimes you need to kill players. You guys know I will kill you, if the dice let me! (Still kinda sorry about sheri).

as for favorite systems, I have an odd list

1. Apocalypse world or dungeon world. (I have had a lot of fun with both, and I think they are the two best designed Apocalypse engine games, I can't decide if I like Act Under Fire or DD better)

2. Urban shadows ( I always liked the Idea of VtM, but dice pools and that who system are kinda abhorent to me (So needlessly complex), so I like that this creates a very WoD feel, with the apocalypse engine running it)

3. PF/D&D 3.5 (The Bakers give me so much s~%~ for liking this one (Not just D&D, but the single most rules heavy, complex edition), but honestly, it was my first RPG, and I still have fun playing it. It has a special place on my shelf)

4. Monster of the Week (Ironically, the first PbtA i played, it is fun, but not as well designed as the others on this list. also, it is pretty close with PF.)

5. Everyone is John/Actual Cannibal Shia Labeouf. (Both of these are silly one-shots my IRL group often uses when we don't have everyone, or are between games, and want to let the GM's recharge. we have a lot of fun every time.)

Getting in on this:

Favorite Systems:
1. PbtA
2. Fiasco
3. Dread
4. D&D 3.5
5. Mouseguard

I've been one shot and seen it before. Primarily in low level Pathfinder/3.5, OSR/AD&D, warhammer RPGs, and when the GM decides to because it's their choice. I have severely injured a player before, but never one shot them - mostly because it's something I look out for in games.

My personal favorite systems (not ranked):

I forgot dread... We actually got Epi to run it for us once too!

and Fiasco is fun... and so if Mouseguard. wow, I have played a lot of RPG's

Tom, have you ever seem KPFS, or the new one, Amazons? both Vincent's things, and both are fun... in very different ways

I don't know Amazons, but had fun with KPFS when we played it... I've been looking forward to AW 2e though.

I don't know Amazons, but had fun with KPFS when we played it... I've been looking forward to AW 2e though.

Me too. My name is in the book actually! in a couple places, I think.

I love Fiasco and Everyone is John.

Tom, I just meant that I've never seen anyone get one shot in the FFG system.

I still need to get my hands on a copy of Mouseguard 2e... MG was the first game I ran.

I played a lot of 4e while it was being run in game stores, never really liked how much it took from WoW.

I play Dread every October. It's the best.

That makes snese, the only one-shot I saw was environmental but I did see a lot of 2-3 shot thresholds. By "one bad roll" I mean the way you can get injured, knocked prone, and separated from the party simultaneously (obviously depending on circumstance). You might not be dead/unconcious, but you are 100% in the GM's control with little to no say.

My RL experience is basically all 3.5/Pathfinder (a 1-15 campaign of each, mixed player and GM roles, plus some smaller scope PF campaigns), which I enjoy plenty but find a little crunchy now.

Aside from that:
Some ad&d and West End star wars back in middle/high school
A one shot of 5e (enjoyed it, would have to play more to form a strong opinion)
Ran a one shot of DW - it went OK (my players had awesome character/setting concepts - the bard's powers came from a guitar driven by the souls of legendary performers of the past, given to him by the previous owner in Valhalla itself), but my DM skills were definitely not up to snuff for a longer campaign in the system
A 4e one shot (rules seem too combat heavy, and the GM wasn't very good)

As it turns out, physics homework is quite an undertaking. This is going to be a fun semester!

My decision to overplay hirelings with my cold characters has been my favorite. It externalizes mood without breaking character.

My decision to overplay hirelings with my cold characters has been my favorite. It externalizes mood without breaking character.

Could you elaborate what you mean by this... it sounds very interesting, but I don't quite understand it as is.

It's easier, and more entertaining for me to represent Roshan "Stonewall" Kaur as being cool and lacking emotions if I surround her with NPCs that are more expressive than her. She expresses emotion through them, externalizing the mood.

I'm not so much a fan of internal monologue.

It's easier, and more entertaining for me to represent Roshan "Stonewall" Kaur as being cool and lacking emotions if I surround her with NPCs that are more expressive than her. She expresses emotion through them, externalizing the mood.

I'm not so much a fan of internal monologue.

man, you must f~+@in' love the characters I play.

but yeah, that's a cool way to do it. maybe you can keep a couple of them... That way, I can kill an NPC with the next big demon, with the same emotional impact

I mean, as a style of writing for me to use. It doesn't come naturally to me.

Vivian is sublime. Monologues are an integral part of her.

I mean, as a style of writing for me to use. It doesn't come naturally to me.

Vivian is sublime. Monologues are an integral part of her.

I was actually thinking more about Ysolde. With Vivian, monologues are a must, because she plays at being put together, and if I only left it at that, she wouldn't fit the game. though, I will admit, I prefer to write in third person, with italicized first person internal monolouges. drove my creative writing prof. nuts.

Also, thank you, morgan is fun to be in a scene with, and I can't wait to see where this character arc goes. also, she's on my "Backup" list, for when This thing with Caleb inevitably blows up

I was actually thinking more about Ysolde. With Vivian, monologues are a must, because she plays at being put together, and if I only left it at that, she wouldn't fit the game. though, I will admit, I prefer to write in third person, with italicized first person internal monolouges. drove my creative writing prof. nuts.

Also, thank you, morgan is fun to be in a scene with, and I can't wait to see where this character arc goes. also, she's on my "Backup" list, for when This thing with Caleb inevitably blows up

Poor girl. She'll get whiplash.

Ha! I didn't realize you were Morgan! I play Caleb!

For the voyeurs in the audience, what's the link to Morgan and Caleb at Tanagra?

umm... I don't know what tanagra is, but Morgan, Caleb, and Vivien are all characters in a MH game Meech, Bastion and I are playing in (actually, the only strangers (For me) in that game are vincent and clement's players. I've been in a dungeon world game with mika, and I had the misfortune to MC a short-lived AW game with Emeka's player)

It's OK, I got the reference :-) And I think Ron was asking for a link to the MH game so he could read along.

okay here's the link

I will warn you that I haven't actually read all the scenes myself (Actually, I've only read scenes I'm in. kinda strapped for time lately). it will be kinda a time sink

Emeka's thread with her Coach is a bit HBO (NC17).

That game system is a bit HBO...

Yeah... I... I'm way to new english for that. Honestly, I've found that you can usually keep things post-2010 pg-13, if you draw a curtain early (like, about where Caleb and I did, or maybe even a post afterward). if it goes farther than that though, it starts to turn into smut fanfic.

in short, yay dungeon world, where our longwinded descriptions are in the style of J.R.R. Tolkien, not E.L. James

I normally do the fade to black, it's just better for the players and me. I went graphic in horror before, but it's always the peak horribleness. I like body horror too much to completely avoid it sometimes.

If I'm hosting DW or D&D or something it hardly ever comes up.

Yeah, I cut that scene short because I'm not SUPER comfortable with sexy sex role-play. I was kind of more interested in monster teenagers being nasty to each other and the people around them and maybe sometimes having TV-14 sex.

Honestly, I'm on the fence about bouncing out of that game and maybe trying to find a BubbleGumshoes game. That might be more my speed...

Yeah, I cut that scene short because I'm not SUPER comfortable with sexy sex role-play. I was kind of more interested in monster teenagers being nasty to each other and the people around them and maybe sometimes having TV-14 sex.

Honestly, I'm on the fence about bouncing out of that game and maybe trying to find a BubbleGumshoes game. That might be more my speed...

I get that, and I shall miss you, but I get bouncing from a game. apologies. one request, should you bounce, would you shut down vivien or something,just to give that arc some closure?

I haven't made a firm decision yet. I like the non sexy parts a lot (like your MH game)

I haven't made a firm decision yet. I like the non sexy parts a lot (like your MH game)

I swear to god, the paizo group is the most aggressive, vitriolic group I have ever run for. kinda love it

Now I kinda wish I joined that, I like the game best as catty drama the little I have played.

Now I kinda wish I joined that, I like the game best as catty drama the little I have played.

Normally I would say you still could, but as it is, there are too many people.

I shouldn't anyways. I'm already doing too much gaming stuff at once

Do you think maybe, in their native tongue, Elf is spelled T-I-E-F-L-I-N-G? They speak like demons. They burn like demons. They descend from humans, the ancient race mistook them for an ancient race... Did some kind of anti-anti-christ plant the God-tree? Some human druid maried a reformed demon and spawned a race of pristine beings eternally tormented by their cruel cousins. Like the Coneheads.

no no, you don't understand. Pelor, the God-Tree, has been around for all time, and the elves are his chosen people. he alone stands between the monsters, demons, and forces of darkness. the elves are those who accepted his teachings, and wee blessed with preternatural speed, strength, senses, and longevity, that they might serve him better. the demon and elvish tongues are similar because pelor taught the elves the language of creation, which the demons use a perversion of.*

*Note: does not nessesarily reflect any certain objective truth about the setting, merely the elvish viewpoint/mythology. anyhing you would like to change/add conwall?

no no, you don't understand. Pelor, the God-Tree, has been around for all time, and the elves are his chosen people. he alone stands between the monsters, demons, and forces of darkness. the elves are those who accepted his teachings, and wee blessed with preternatural speed, strength, senses, and longevity, that they might serve him better. the demon and elvish tongues are similar because pelor taught the elves the language of creation, which the demons use a perversion of.*

*Note: does not nessesarily reflect any certain objective truth about the setting, merely the elvish viewpoint/mythology. anyhing you would like to change/add conwall?

Pretty much, yeah. We're also more attractive than those not chosen by Pelnore.

so, question... does anyone know hop changing a GP thread for a campaign works, because I think we can only have 2500 posts per thread, and we are rapidly approaching that limit.

also, how does everyone handle body horror?

I think you can detach the thread in the campaign settings. Pick the "campaign" tab, then edit, and then choose "

Nevermind, I just saw that you can only unset the Discussion and Recruitment threads... strange. Maybe just make a new thread and attach the discussion and recruitment threads to that?

I like body horror too much to completely avoid it sometimes.

I'm fine with body horror.