Of course, we probably don't want to put out treasury and army in an NPC's hands, so move Azrin to General. But I really can't see Urzan agreeing to be Treasurer, so probably a NPC.
Treasurer can use Wis; Azrin could be Treasurer. The Kung Fu Treasurer. Starring Jackie Chan.
Edit: Holy crap, pressing Ctrl + Alt and a direction button changes the orientation of your screen. That's the stupidest thing to give a quick key ever. I scared the s$~# out of myself and hard reset my machine.
If you guys think I'm letting you get three Ruler bonuses if you try pulling any of these triumvirate shenanigans you're going to be disappointed. The Ruler bonus is from having a centralized authority figure who can quickly react to things; three men in a room arguing don't add a Charisma bonus to squat. It specifically says the only way you can get a bonus from two rulers is if they're married and rule with one voice.
You're already going to have a high council to hash things out.
Edit: In no uncertain terms: any form of government other than monarchy is going to have liabilities for you. Dictatorships really are more efficient; the problem isn't with despotism, it's with the despots. Theoretically the rule of a wise person would be superior to democracy, it's just nobody can agree on a definition of wise.
Edit: I'm not trying to tell you how to play your characters, just warning you how I'm interpreting the system. Like I said if you have your hearts set on another form of government that's fine, but mechanically it's always going to be a hindrance rather than a help. It would have to be for pure roleplaying bragging rights.
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As a player, I'm all about bonuses. I'm just adding some variety to the discussion. I figured a trium would be fluff for a king and two other roles crunch-wise.
I also want to make anyone self-nominating for the throne feel like dirt.
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That's cool, just keeping you abreast of any potential gameplay ramifications of things as they come up.
Grand diplomat would be okay for Andrezi... He is also experienced in this field, and has connections. Tho general would also be realistic, he does have military experience after all, and a pretty interesting potential first liutenant :D
Alamander is going to wait until one more person declares for Wilhelm before declaring a quorum and seeking Acavna's blessing. He could jump in right away, but he wants to be sure this is the decision of the group.
Oh, I'd forgotten that the royal blood trait gives a +2 to leadership checks. Andrezi's still far and away the mechanically best choice for king, though.
Are we going to stick with King for the in-character title? It has hereditary associations that a couple of PCs may not be comfortable with. I kind of like Primate, but those intelligent apes might think we're making a jab at them.
From a technical viewpoint he would be the best. but as far as characters go, I don't think he would be as good as Wilheilm.
I'm sure not everybody's as into the formation of a government as I am, but do we want to establish something like a Magna Carta? It'd just be fluff, but could be important from an RP standpoint.
Similarly, we could establish that the monarchy isn't hereditary, instead elected by a council after a certain interval or after the king's death. There were some electoral monarchies in Europe- the Pope is still pretty much one.
And there's the issue of whether we need to select council positions now. If we're all agreed OOC Wilhelm could just appoint people IC then have them agree to accept the position.
I'm fine with it being an elected (benevolent) dictatorship.
I think the election idea is a good one after each king or queen dies.
Urzan sees no RP point to a magna carta. If the king fails the kingdom, he'll just get replaced. heh heh
We'll need to organize a coronation. I've no idea if there's a crown kicking around or maybe we should get one forged (assuming we can afford it).
We should discuss priorities. A coronation is a party requiring resources.
For the record, I agree with Capt. Urzan would make a boss marshal both in personality and Wisdom score.
cheers
I'm actually more inclined towards a general. Sorcerer general sounds cool, plus gives Andrezi more opportunity to kill cultists :D
Btw I'm not sure u're aware of this Urzan, but Andrezi has an animal companion ape, so that killing of apes part might be problematic in future party relations :D
Btw I'm not sure u're aware of this Urzan, but Andrezi has an animal companion ape, so that killing of apes part might be problematic in future party relations :D
I didn't know, but Andrezi has learned to keep it away from Urzan who has a deep hatred for apes.
cheers
Similarly, we could establish that the monarchy isn't hereditary, instead elected by a council after a certain interval or after the king's death.
Then it wouldn't be a monarchy; those are innately hereditary. Maybe you could call the position Emperor. After all, Azlant was an empire. Also emperor sounds cooler than king.
I also like Archon and Maharahjah for non-hereditary king-like titles.
Of course, you can call yourself whatever you want when you're the head guy in charge. But if you do expect Taldane scholars to make scathing footnotes when recording the history of your nation. Dry, sardonic wit will be employed.
Btw I'm not sure u're aware of this Urzan, but Andrezi has an animal companion ape, so that killing of apes part might be problematic in future party relations :DI didn't know, but Andrezi has learned to keep it away from Urzan who has a deep hatred for apes.
cheers
cool, that can work
how does Andrezi feel about being spymaster? sounds like that is probably the best spot for him from a purely mechanical point of view
What? Andezi has a Charisma of like 23. Grand Diplomat is his best mechanical bet, or Councilor or Magister or General.
Edit: Also I leave the augury for you guys to interpret.
oh right, for some reason i had it in my head cha applied to spymaster.
Also: you should call the election of new kings a "Kingsmoot".
You shouldn't take that as too soft an endorsement; I like to represent augury results like that because, as I've stated before, I'm just evil. You can basically take that as a Weal result.
Although maybe Acavna was a lot flashier about it back in the day.
Okay why doesn't everyone post the position they think would fit them best and this point and we'll see if we have any overlap. I think there might be something close to a consensus. It's probably faster to work it out OOC together and just have it either happen off-screen or Wilhelm appoint them IC.
Edit: Also what are you going to call your Kingdom? Something Azlant probably, but just Azlant? New Azlant? The Azlant II: Firestarter?
The city also needs a name.
I'm just going to go ahead and guess with a Paladin king you'll have lawful/good based laws. The vast majority of you have either good or lawful in your alignment so that should be acceptable to everyone for the most part. It's the best compromise for sure.
I'm just trying to get the kingdom sheet filled out.
Edit: Oooh, maybe Wilhelm should take an Azlanti name as his dynasty name.
Edit: Aaaaaand what's Wilhelm going to add his leadership bonus to? It could be Loyalty, Economy or Stability.
Although maybe Acavna was a lot flashier about it back in the day.
I'd like to think that :)
One last thing: I should explain edicts at this juncture.
There's three: Promotion, Taxation, and Festivals.
Promotion is how much effort you're putting into recruiting people to come live here. Offering free land, hiring recruiters, putting up posters, that kind of thing. You can have None, Token, Standard, Aggressive or Expansionist. The more Promotion you have the more it's going to drain the treasury, but the more of a stability bonus you get from it. Edit: You might not want to go overboard with this until you've made the area a little safer for travel.
Taxation is, obviously, how much money you're asking from the citizens. You can have None, Light, Normal, Heavy or Overwhelming. Higher taxes increase Economy but decrease loyalty. Although you have really high loyalty so you could afford to lose a bit. The temple gives you a nice boost, and being Good aligned also increases it.
Festivals per year is how many festivals you have every year. People love fun. You can have 1, 6, 12 or 24. More festivals increase loyalty but drain the treasury.
You'll need to set a level for each.
role:general
Would focusing on economy early be a good idea? As for the names not rly sure on it. Also, we should proly set standard promotion, and standard or heavy taxation. Festivals could be 6 or smth for now, until we can really party lol
Well it's up to you. Early on you've got less consumption so you can either try to raise a nice nest egg of funds or get your other values high so your kingdom is strong before expanding. You'll need money to expand, and you'll need to expand to significantly grow in power.
Based on personality and circumstances rather than stats I'd suggest Alamander as High Priest, although he could do other things in a pinch.
So we need to expand our settlement, but until we've tamed the area it's likely very dangerous for people to travel. So how about we set the edicts at:
Promotion: Token
Taxation: Normal
Festivals: 6
The we go explore and pacify! Perhaps we should split up into two parties and aim to explore all the nearby hexes? We'd need two balanced parties, how about:
Party A:
Martial: Wilhelm
Martial / Divine: Azrin
Divine Caster: Urzan
Arcane Caster: Andrezi
Party B:
Martial: Kierk
Martial / Divine Caster: Alamander
Arcane Caster: Dexter
Buffs: Orsano
Suggestions? :)
sounds good, the edicts. And I like the party propositions, tho eventually I would like to team up with everyone at some point, so we could make rotations or smth in between adventures.
Yeah well presumably you'll tailor teams to individual missions. I'm sure you'll all work with each other at various times. Nothing's permanent.
That's a good split though. I like that you have your druid and ranger split up so both exploration teams get a woodsman.
If each team explores three adjacent hexes you could get all the ones connecting to your city finished in a little over a week, give or take depending on your individual team speeds.
Doing three at once would be good since, because you can explore a hex and get no encounters, that way both teams will be highly likely to get at least one encounter.
We could always divide along different lines. Rather than seeking to be entirely independent we could have a fast/stealthy group to whizz through hexes and avoid encounters while the heavy hitters follow up on hexes we know have a fight in them.
Will we be able to supplement our treasury with loot from encounters, or do we want to reserve that for ourselves? Light taxation makes kingdoms easier to manage, though like CM says we have good loyalty for now. Just seems a bit rough saying to our most dedicated pilgrims, right you made it through the jungle, well done. Now before you can worship, hand over 70% of whatever you managed to lug through deadly danger, haha.
I think securing a reasonably safe link to the outside world is vital, we don't want to be at the mercy of other nations.
I agree that 70% taxation seems totally unfair, although they ARE the believers...
I think we should agree on some percentage the treasury gets (say 20%) before we divide the loot.
The fast/slow split could be worth trying - especially once we reach further away, but lets stick with two balanced groups for the first 6 hexes?
we could have a fast/stealthy group to whizz through hexes and avoid encounters
Wouldn't help. You're supposed to clear the hexes of encounters. If you stealth past something someone else is going to have to come back and kill it before you can claim the hex.
Will we be able to supplement our treasury with loot from encounters, or do we want to reserve that for ourselves?
1 BP = 4,000 gold. You can donate to the treasury, cash or fungible goods.
Also I don't know where the idea that the Normal taxation level was 70% of income. That's a pretty strange conclusion to jump to.
It's more like saying "hey great job treking through the jungle, now you have the pay the government the same you would anywhere else, and also we're going to keep demon apes and serpentfolk from eating you."
Sounds like an okay deal. Also most of these people were homeless, so tax in a lot of these cases is "you caught 12 rabbits, you have to give two to the community".
How does this sound to everyone:
Councilor: Orsano
General: Kierk
Grand Diplomat: Andrezi
High Priest: Alamander
Magister: Dexter
Marshal: Urzan
Treasurer: Azrin
That leaves Warden and Spymaster for NPCs.
I think its good.
I would personally prefer Warden, but I am open to counter-arguments.
That would be an easy swap, then an NPC is treasurer.
i like Dexter as spymaster, myself.
also the 70% rate was just me being cute, i imagined these holy pilgrims stepping out of the jungle and being confronted with the tax collector, thought it was quite funny.
the idea of the fast group was to move around claiming clear hexes. when they encounter a problem, they tell the 'main' group, who move in and deal with it - rather than trudging around somewhat aimlessly.
just thinking out loud really, and two semi balanced groups will probably be more fun for all involved than making our fast members dodge fights.
(though i wouldnt be bothered if Orsano never saw combat)
its a tricky balancing act! presumably any NPCs we co-opt arent going to have the same stat modifiers we can bring to a role.
can someone give me some perspective on how much impact these roles have on the things they affect? for example, no treasurer means economy is decreased by 4. if your total economy is 10, thats a big deal. if your total economy is 1000, then who cares...
also, we need to find Wilhelm a hot princess to marry so we can stack cha bonuses ASAP, and then Wilhelm can charge around smiting evil and so forth without having to worry about vacancy penalty.
summon the grand diplomat, i have his first mission...
edit - spamtastic!
can someone give me some perspective on how much impact these roles have on the things they affect?
For context I'll do a mock up of your kingdom sheet with the placeholder positions I posted above (but with Azrin moved to Warden), so you can all get a sense of what the numbers might look like.
Okay, done. It's in a spoiler in the Kingdom tab. You can see the specific bonus each role gives on the side. The Control DC is the DC you'll be rolling these bonuses against.
I didn't calculate Wilhelm's bonus yet, because it can be assigned to any of the three at his discretion.
awesome thanks.
also, if dexter doesnt want to be spymaster, i think Orsano would rather do it than leave it to an NPC. he never had much time for the common folk anyway... it makes more sense for them to choose a rep from amongst themselves i reckon :P
if that ends up being the case, with your permission i might tweak his stats a bit to get an 18 in dex.
Soitenly. You'd probably be a better off as Spymaster anyway.
You need to get the rest of your sheet on the alias as well.
If you were spymaster, what would you add your bonus to?
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If you were spymaster, what would you add your bonus to?
What is this, a job interview? Speed dating?
-Posted with Wayfinder
i'd probably add it to Orsanos slush fund
or if thats not an option, i guess economy? thats the beauty of spymaster right, it depends on what the group wants to focus on