The situation right now:
There is a prologue up in the gameplay thread. Feel free to read it but please do not post in gameplay yet. I will make a second post there when the game has officially begun.
Unless someone objects I'm thinking I'll start the game once everyone is settled with their backstories, since the first scene is just going to be an IC-discussion about some logistical things, and let people still working on crunch finish that up while we do that scene. That lets us start sooner and, I don't know about you guys, but I'm excited to get this game off the ground.
I put up a bunch of maps of varying levels of zoomed-in on the campaign tab to give you guys an idea where all this takes place, if anyone is interested. I also have a half-built Kingdom sheet but without the nobles taken into account it basically means nothing.
Please still post character creation stuff in the recruitment thread so we can reserve this for actual OOC discussion. Feel free to post anything else you want here though.
Re: monkey backpack.
I have decided that you can have animal versions of any human gear that can be worn, but you have to price them using the Armor for Unusual Creatures rules:
I guess that was all still character creation stuff. Reposting to the recruitment thread.
Can we dot the gameplay to get the campaign in our summary?
thanks
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeengh I'd prefer we didn't have dots in the gameplay thread, so here's what I'll do: I'm going to post the first gameplay post, and if you want to get the dot you can post a physical description of your character without them speaking as your first post. Or if you have something to say you can post that too, but my point is you'd "dot" with an actual gameplay post, even if that post is just what you look like. I think that's a reasonable compromise.
FYI I'm a bit fussy about the gameplay thread. The other threads I could care less about but I like to try and keep that one to just IC stuff. I'm not going to be a pill about it but I do have some weird rules to that end, such as: I don't like purely OOC posts in the gameplay thread, even if they reference something in the gameplay thread. I don't mind blue text as part of a larger post, but if you're going to post a 100% commentary post I prefer it in discussion. You can quote the relevant portion of gameplay. I always read discussion first so I'll see it.
Anyway I'll get that post up now, should be finished within the hour and then you can reply to it and get the game on your tab.
You've been together for about three months altogether now (except the new member, who has only been around for two), with the meeting, the journey and the work you've done, so you have a decent sense of all the other characters. You know who shares your alignment, who you get along with and who you're not sure about yet.
You might want to hold off using anyone's name who doesn't have an alias yet, you can just refer to them in a vague manner until you're sure about their final character name.
So, go nuts. Consider the game started although if you decide to go fight something we'll obviously have to wait until everyone has stats. There's a lot to discuss though so you should be able to find things to talk about long enough for everyone to finish.
Under the campaign tab there's a map of the "capital" (which needs a name) that is a map of the area around the Ziggurat that you've cleared out to build your city on. In addition to the Stairway to the Moon (which counts as a Cathedral) you have a few blocks of housing (cleaned up ancient stone houses) and an ancient Azlanti graveyard that still has room for bodies.
If there's any information you've let out about your character in the past few months you can post it here so people have context.
Edit: I was a bit confusing in my post, but you have heard of the Chaos Moon by now. You just hadn't at the precise moment in time that part of the post referred to. Most of the people in your village had their homes destroyed during the Chaos Moon so you've heard AAAAAALL about it.
For the record, if you post something (like ".") in gameplay but then subsequently delete the post, the thread will still show up under your "campaigns" tab (and thus on Wayfinder, if you use it).
Well, too late now.
Whatever I was so pumped to write that, I'm happy.
Please don't hesitate to ask any questions either.
Orsano is mostly statted up, but i havent really spent any wealth yet. im open to the idea of pooling resources as someone else mentioned.
i'd imagine Orsano would have hired some servants when he began his journey, who have doubtless deserted him once they realised where he was headed so that will have made a dent in his fortunes. overall he is ill equipped for a jungle trek followed by city building, but is not too proud to bow to the expertise of others in this matter.
oh, and i've got no experience with kingmaker et al, sadly - but im a reasonably quick learner if someone would like to recommend some reading.
Interesting. Orsano might actually make a decent Spymaster. It's a pretty cool role since you get to decide where you allocate your bonus, somewhat on the fly. Although that would be a bit of a waste, since his effective Charisma is 18 for leadership roles, so he'd be a way better Councilor. That's a great position to build a power base from; they guy who represents the will of the people to the powers that be.
oh, and i've got no experience with kingmaker et al, sadly - but im a reasonably quick learner if someone would like to recommend some reading.
Okay, the basics for now:
The most important stats a Kingdom has are Economy, Loyalty and Stability. These work basically like saving throws.
Economy is how robust your kingdom's economy is, and it is used to raise taxes and absorb economic disasters.
Loyalty is how much your people like you, and is used to keep them from killing you all in your sleep.
Stability is how stable your society is. This is the most abstract, it's sort of a combination of your law enforcement, religious institutions, and community spirit. It's used to keep your kingdom secure in times of crisis.
Control DC is based on how big your kingdom is and is the DC for checks with the first three stats.
Defense Modifier is how well defended you are and will come up later, but it's pretty self-explanatory. It's a modifier to defense.
Nation building is done in build points, or BP. One BP = approximately 4,000 gp. Every month you need to pay your kingdom's upkeep in BP or people become upset, but you gain BP based on an Economy check every month as well. You also use BP to buy buildings and other improvements, which modify the kingdom's stats.
Unrest is like reverse hit points. Gain too much of this and your kingdom breaks up.
Edicts are various decisions you make related to government, and affect your stats.
All of the leaders affect stats in some way.
Edit: All the leadership roles and the way in which they affect stats are written in the campaign tab.
sounds like fun - i used to love playing Civilization. so far Orsano has kept his cards fairly close to his chest, attempting to make friends with everyone without going too far in any one direction.
being raised in a fairly lawful society he sees the benefits of co-operation, especially at this tender stage of development and is working hard to get along with Wilhelm. i do like the idea of an IC discussion between the two of them, but not sure if i should do it in the gameplay thread.
in a totally OOC aside (ie he hasnt mentioned a whiff of this to anyone), ultimately Orsano doesnt need to be called king, but he does plan to wield significant power - perhaps even to the point of pulling the strings on a figurehead monarch. in alot of ways Wilhelm as king works well, the beacon of faith and honor as the monarch with the slightly less morally restrained Orsano as grand vizier or something - getting his hands dirty on the stuff the king doesnt need to know about, but which need doing to keep the kingdom safe - plausible deniability and all that.
I can see the benefit of the first chapter or two (haven't played it so I am not sure how long it takes to get to the kingdom building portion...) of pathfinder Kingmaker. It allows you to get to know the characters, and their tendencies, before choosing leaders and counselors and such. Who knows, the stats might be there, but the character might be a bit looney tunes if you will.
I think that is going to be the interesting part of this process for us, is trying to figure all that jazz on the fly.
So in terms of the gamethread, we are about to go to a town hall meeting basically, that is going to determine the governing system of the community right? I am going to post my physical description, but I will refrain from adding conversation. (or at least I will try... lol)
It's more like a high council meeting than a town hall meeting. You're all getting together to hash things out, since you're already the unofficial leaders of the community and you founded it. You're like the people they appoint to write the new constitution after they overthrow a longtime dictator.
You also have the advantage of having enough PCs to fill all but 2 of the required leadership roles, so you only need to find 2 NPCs instead of 5-6 like most parties. I'm sure you guys can swing two NPCs. Even if you have to settle for random volunteers from among the pilgrims having two mediocre leaders isn't that big a deal when the vast majority of your leadership roles are taken by people swinging around +4s and +3s in the relevant stat. The first time you go to a city on a diplomatic mission you can recruit talented people. Two of them. Three if you decide to implement the one-man secret police that is the Royal Assassin, but that's not very good aligned.
Edit: This is my high council. It is a collection of magic wielding heroes from across the land and Bill, the Treasurer.
Nice. So the rest of the pilgrims won't be present? If that is the case, I should probably cut that part out of my post eh?
Yeah if you posted anything that assumed there were pilgrims present cut that out, unless you're deliberately bringing some to be all "Hey these dumb a##+$&$s should be privy to our secret meetings, who are we to shut them out of this process?"
But keep in mind it's unlikely any of you exactly grew up in a democracy. You have no expectation of equal say for the common folk. This is just the way things are done; the people with power make all the decisions.
That doesn't mean you have to be an a~%@@+* about it, but your kingdom is still very much a monarchy, or at least an autocracy.
You should also cut out the reference to the "peaceful light of the Chaos Moon" while you're cutting things, because the Chaos Moon refers to a one-time event when the moon got big during your ritual. It got better, so it's just the plain old "peaceful light of the moon".
But that's me being absurdly petulant. I just more wanted to clarify about the Chaos Moon for future reference.
"It got better..." I laughed.
To be fair, that reference was supposed to be in regards to the dreams he had had every night since that night. In his dream, he had dreamt of the Chaos Moon, up close and personal, watching over him and what he did, etc. The Chaos Moon being a symbol of Acavna, and in his dreams it is the same thing.
Going to go re-read, apparently, that didn't come through lol.
Okay cool, if I misread it don't change it, like I said I just wanted to be 100% clear about the nature of the Chaos Moon since this isn't the last you guys are going to be hearing about it.
...and i've been spelling Acavna wrong this whole time. gah!
Engh, don't sweat it. I'll be spelling all kinds of things wrong.
Wait, was I being petulant or pedantic? I need to look this up.
Okay, yeah, I definitely meant pedantic back there.
Hi everyone it's good to be here :) I'm really quite looking forward to this, Civilization was also one of my favorite games.
I should be able to post a couple of times per day, however I'm based in the UK so my posts will probably be a bit out of phase. That seems to work fine for the other pbp in so I'm hopeful it'll work out well here too.
Will finish up on my char tonight and post in gmeplay, so we can get this rollin.
And yeah, greetings fellow adventurers! :D
Also, ape army.
I should be able to post a couple of times per day, however I'm based in the UK so my posts will probably be a bit out of phase.
Just out of interest, where is everyone here from? These games can sometimes get amazingly international. I'm from Canada (Commonwealth of Nations represent! Fist bump!)
Croatia here, EU.
One thing before I post a description (well, two, since I need to make up an alias)- are pith helmets and khakis a reasonable outfit? I've been imagining Dexter kitted out as a Victorian explorer, so if that's out I'll need to rethink what he's wearing.
East coast US here.
I am from the US.
Midwest US here, though I will be moving 8 hours east in less than a month.
are pith helmets and khakis a reasonable outfit? I've been imagining Dexter kitted out as a Victorian explorer, so if that's out I'll need to rethink what he's wearing.
Yeah that sounds pretty Pathfindery. Certainly in Taldor and successor states I can see them wearing that stuff, so it would be in circulation.
Montreal
Montreal
I want like you because you're a fellow countryman, but I feel compelled to hate you because of hockey.
Okay I wasn't sure when I was going to mention this but I'll just do it now:
One house rule I've had to add is the ability to make farmland out of jungle. Kingmaker as-written assumes you can only make farms on plains or hills, but it also has rules for preparing other terrains to build a city on. I figure if you can build a city there you can build farmland, so my house rule is that for the same cost of preparing a hex for a city you can transform a hex into plains (except desert hexes). That way you guys will actually be able to build farms less than 7 hexes away from your capital.
Any comments on the character?
He doesn't wear a red, white, blue jersey.
Any comments on the character?
He doesn't wear a red, white, blue jersey.
Looks good. I'd say buy more food but I guess you're insisting that you forage. You might want to buy at least enough for the journey over, otherwise you would have slowed everyone down. You certainly can afford it.
I also just realized your character has a connection to the area I hadn't noticed.
How closely to you want to track food and resources? I haven't bought anything like that yet but I'm more than happy to.
I ought to get a ranged weapon too while I remember.
I'm going to be a pill about food management until your town has at least a general store. Then I'll stop caring entirely and it'll be a background thing. You need a minimum of 2 weeks of food to get over here. Animal feed too. Edit: Oh, whoops, you don't. It actually makes sense that you'd have none.
Animal feed is horribly heavy. My menagerie can travel half speed on land or water avoiding difficult jungle terrain and hunt. Even at camp, I would send my companion out to hunt every 2 days to feed my menagerie.
If you want me to buy food, tell me how much you want to spend.
Yes, Urzan is a local of the jungle.
cheers
Animal feed is horribly heavy. My menagerie can travel half speed on land or water avoiding difficult jungle terrain and hunt. Even at camp, I would send my companion out to hunt every 2 days to feed my menagerie.
Fine, you win.
Yes, Urzan is a local of the jungle.
I was actually referring to something else... MYSTERIES ABOUND!
Animal feed is horribly heavy. My menagerie can travel half speed on land or water avoiding difficult jungle terrain and hunt. Even at camp, I would send my companion out to hunt every 2 days to feed my menagerie.Fine, you win.
So... do we need animal feed or not? Maybe just for carnivores, since the animal feed description specifically states that horses, mules, and ponies can forage for food?
So... do we need animal feed or not?
URZAN doesn't. Everyone else still does. This is a long journey and bringing animals is a not-insignificant investment of resources.
Alright, so a couple questions...
In terms of feed, and food, and such... I am assuming that what we bought we bought in Sargava, so obviously, in game, we will have consumed a number of those resources. So should we just deduct that cost, or should we buy it, mark it, and then do scratch it out?
In terms of character gear and such, am I missing anything? Feed obviously, but I don't know how much it costs, or how much I need, any help?
I am adding 30 days worth of feed, but that brought up another question.
In my head, I assume we spent two weeks worth of food and such getting to the temple. After the Chaos Moon event, we hung out around the temple, so not only are we clearing land, but we would be able to hunt and gather food, and begin the process of cultivating some food supplies. In that regard, I will add some bulk items to be planted. I don't want to convert a whole hex, but I figure to start, we could plant some garden type areas to provide some more dedicated food until we get farmland up and running.
Plausible?
In my head, I assume we spent two weeks worth of food and such getting to the temple. After the Chaos Moon event, we hung out around the temple, so not only are we clearing land, but we would be able to hunt and gather food, and begin the process of cultivating some food supplies. In that regard, I will add some bulk items to be planted. I don't want to convert a whole hex, but I figure to start, we could plant some garden type areas to provide some more dedicated food until we get farmland up and running.
Plausible?
The problem is that the kingdom building rules don't really work with mixed-use hexes. Our current hex is dedicated to our new city. We can say RP-wise that there are gardens and stuff to sustain us but that's just fluff, completely unrelated to farms under the kingdom building ruleset.
Also, once we get there, it's useful to remember that the 'buildings' are really abstractions (except maybe in the case of very large buildings). So a dock is a dock district or a blacksmith is a street of blacksmiths and metal workers.
Similarly, a hex converted to farming isn't a single farm, it's a number of small farms and maybe even tiny villages dedicated to supporting them. Which makes sense, since 12 square miles would be a huge farm.
Not to belabor this hunting thing, but rechecking the Survival rules, Urzan and his companion can hunt for 4 hours and collect 8 days of food for medium-size creatures. Even if it spoils, Urzan can prepare and cast at-will Purify Food. Some of that 4 hours includes collecting clean water, but Urzan can cast Create Water at will.
cheers
In my head, I assume we spent two weeks worth of food and such getting to the temple. After the Chaos Moon event, we hung out around the temple, so not only are we clearing land, but we would be able to hunt and gather food, and begin the process of cultivating some food supplies. In that regard, I will add some bulk items to be planted. I don't want to convert a whole hex, but I figure to start, we could plant some garden type areas to provide some more dedicated food until we get farmland up and running.
Plausible?
The problem is that the kingdom building rules don't really work with mixed-use hexes. Our current hex is dedicated to our new city. We can say RP-wise that there are gardens and stuff to sustain us but that's just fluff, completely unrelated to farms under the kingdom building ruleset.
Also, once we get there, it's useful to remember that the 'buildings' are really abstractions (except maybe in the case of very large buildings). So a dock is a dock district or a blacksmith is a street of blacksmiths and metal workers.
Similarly, a hex converted to farming isn't a single farm, it's a number of small farms and maybe even tiny villages dedicated to supporting them. Which makes sense, since 12 square miles would be a huge farm.
I get this, and though it is fluff as you say, for the current conversation it seems really important fluff. We could take an acre or two patch of that first 12 mile hex that had been cleared, we could plant a couple of gardens and a small wheat field, and by the time the settlers come, we would have means to feed ourselves. Which means we shouldn't need to worry about tracking food, minus that which we used on our journey.
It is a minute detail, but it is a detail that is being discussed none the less. If we are being asked to track food, shouldn't we be able to use that which is available to us to provide food instead of retroactively buying it?
I guess this is the source of my question. And with a +10 to my survival skill, I feel much like Urzan does, between the two of us, we could feed the group once we arrived at the temple from here on.
So I should bump my feed/rations down by 14 to represent the journey there?
Leave it for now, but I'm going to have everyone do it at once when everyone has finished their stats. We don't want to forget and charge you twice.
So should we just deduct that cost, or should we buy it, mark it, and then do scratch it out?
If you just want to pay for it that's fine, but at least temporarily I'll need a list of the feed you bought so you might as well list it.
After the Chaos Moon event, we hung out around the temple, so not only are we clearing land, but we would be able to hunt and gather food,
Yep. You can provide for at least your group of 8 off the land, while stationary, without issue or a check.
and begin the process of cultivating some food supplies. In that regard, I will add some bulk items to be planted. I don't want to convert a whole hex, but I figure to start, we could plant some garden type areas to provide some more dedicated food until we get farmland up and running.
Creating farmland is something that happens during the kingdom building phase, right now everyone is still operating at a hunter/gatherer level. You can have a private garden to grow food plants in if you like, but nothing like an organized field. You'll need to clear more land to make farms (which might be a good first goal).
Edit: on the plus side, you have citizens now, so it would be more accurate to say that you have to order goons to clear the fields for you while you go have adventures.
On a completely unrelated note, we have had 7 character posts in the gameplay thread, I think we are only waiting on Azrin, woohoo!
As an aside, and just to let Capt. know, I am going to be taking some kids to camp next week. I will have internet access, but I won't have a ton of time, I will probably be checking in once or twice a day at max. Shouldn't be a terrible issue, but nevertheless, if I am missing or go unheard of for a time, that would be why.