DM Barcas - Kingmaker: New Beginnings (Inactive)

Game Master Isaac Duplechain

I'll be happy to aid Verik, I have a +9 in spellcraft after all.

Ooo! Zander exposition, must power through flu/exhaustion to reply.

I do look forward to seeing the look on Verik's face when Tandlara helps by dropping an animal skeleton on his lap. Two cultures collide!

Yup, witches and clerics of Abadar, working together will be interesting! That alone will curtail Verik's use of the feat.

As an aside, what I've doen fro crafting is institute a monthly limit.
A crafter can only make (1000*(1.5^(1/2 level))) gp of items (thats cost to build, not value) a month. Though if kingmaker has a longer timescale maybe increase that to 2-3 months. It roughly averages at ~10% wealth.

It will take 4 days to make a Headband of Inspired Wisdom, a day per 1000gp of the base price which is 4000gp. I prefer the idea of teaming up to, should make for some interesting RP and I think it makes sense for Verik's first magical crafting especially since he can be essentially consulting Tandlara throughout the process.

That sounds like a good way of ensuring crafters only craft for themselves to me Tandlara.

Well, I'm happy if DM Barcas rules in favor - we're all benefiting from it after all :)

Guidance, however, also mentions a 1 minute duration, which in itself is not sufficient (for me) to cover a week's worth of crafting. Though as a GM I'd rule that if you aid Verik by using guidance on him continously for the entire crafting process he'd get a total effective +4 aid bonus (+2 aid, +1 guidance, +1 circumstance).

What speaks against taking-10, from a meta-game point of view, is that it allows players to plan around their crafting to a silly degree; thereby enabling the access to items even earlier than can be reasonably expected.

That said, I don't see why Verik needs to pay +5 DC to craft the headband. He meets both requirements: Craft Wondrous Item and has access to owl's wisdom. There is no need for him to have caster level 8 - that isn't part of the requirements, that is the measure of the crafting DC.

The way I read it, and after referencing the messageboards here I think at least a small consensus is that you must pay the +5 dc when you do not meet caster level. I can certainly see what you are saying, and as a player I'm all in favor, but as a DM I think the +5 if you don't meet the caster level is fairly reasonable. It makes sense to me that a 3rd level crafter would have a harder time meeting the DC than an 8th level caster - the cl needed for the Headband - even if they had the same spellcraft modifier.

So it seems like Verik has about 1267gp available, is he going to be able get access to 2000gp? And how much of the actual funds are available, is some taken up with debt? If you take my meaning.

I'm willing to lend Verik money, but Tandlara doesn't have 800 gp, I can chip in 200.

I was sort of hoping we might do it on the standard you get an expensive item system spreading the debt sort of thing - although I am a little lost as to where this is it seems like some of the characters should be in debt to the group because of the items they have but there does not seem to be a record of this.

For example Tandlara has items that cost - at half value - 2000gp. The group has 1167gp each worth of wealth each, does this include the magic item values? How much actual cash is available and how much is in debt from items, etc? Certainly not complaining about this btw, just want to see where the figures are and am a bit lost.

I tried looking at the loot sheet, but its showing with 0gp everywhere for some reason.

Since we sold everything from this loot session and I posted the totals in this thread, I archived our loot and started up a new sheet. This round of loot should be in the tabs at the bottom, listed as "Loot 04/06/4708"

I'm not entirely sure, what you're asking, but if you just want to know how much gold everyone has to loan for crafting Verik a headband, the best way would probably be just to check everyone's profile assuming that people have been keeping it updated and have added in this loot session's gold total.

Zander has 468.37 gp and I suppose I could loan some of it out as long as I'm getting paid back by the next time we do our loot.

Nevermind I was incorrectly counting 1000gp as the half price for Tandlara's stuff for some reason. Hmmm, we are pretty poor, I might wait a while before beginning to craft that Headband.

But isn't there some stuff that has not been counted? Like Jemini's MW Longsword?

Just for the record, Taisper wouldn't be drinking either. He's terrified of it for various reasons. He would first avoid taking a mug altogether, but if that's not possible he'll do his best to surreptitiously dump the contents and maybe just get some cider or water or something else in there.

Also, is...is Berrin about to get macked on? 'Cos if so, that's hott.

Oh hang on I see what I'm doing I forgot that we cashed out before nevermind, curse you an your inadequacies brain! Verik actually has 1676gp then meaning he needs to bum 324gp.

I think I'll leave it, I don't really see Verik as a borrower, and he wants to start getting a Church built and pay some towards the festival. Which means he has some craft time available...

How about a Scabbard of Vigor for Jemini? He can make that without aide taking 10 for 900gp - and I think its a nifty item.

Or maybe a Hat of Disguise for Zander, given his current worries?

This just in: Kressle is a bad person.

She is? Damn! You and your surprise twists!

Ohhhh mannn. Moral dilemna time for Taisper! This is great.

Also, I don't think Zander has ever considered a Hat of Disguise. We'll see how he feels about it if Verik brings it up.

I was going to see if you were interested OOC first, but it won't be hard for Verik to bring it up as he would certainly think about it from the hiding disfigurement angle - probably thinking Zander could use it to look like how he used to.

So... use it to look like a little kid? :P

OOC I don't feel a huge need for it as I usually just pump all of my gold into combat upgrades, but IC Zander might talk me into it depending on how things develop.

Bravo, Taisper.

Bravo.

Heh. Thanks! ^_^ That was really hard. I think T is gonna go find hisself a nice corner somewhere to have a nervous breakdown.

And I won't lie; I was stone terrified waiting for the browser to refresh and show me those die roll results each time I came to one.

Well maybe, but I imagine the Hat of Disguise has to be fairly flexible with what you have to think of since it is a standard action to use. I think you could probably say like an older version of what I used to look like easily enough.

I am glad Taisper fielded that, I think it was a far more interesting from his perspective than it would have been from most others. Good job!

hehehe - if Zander goes with "an older version of the younger me" he might involuntarily (or in actuality) end up looking like his father. Wonder how that will sit with him ;) hahaha

The problem with the Caster Level thing and adding it to craft DC is that the developers have repeatedly mentioned it does not factor into requirements. I agree that it makes sense in terms of flavor - but it doesn't do so consistently: take for example a pearl of power, CL 17. Essentially you will never be able to craft it without a penalty - and that doesn't make much sense to me.

The Scabbard of Vigor is interesting. I'll have to think about it. I haven't really envisioned any need to buy anything for Jemini just yet - in the long term she'll want a Silver Smite Bracelet, of course, but that is a long ways off.

hmmm... a mithril chainshirt... - she did quite fall in love with that...

For the Church Verik is thinking long term you see, he does not want to start out with a shack that cannot be incorporated into a grand structure later. He wants an aspirational building and is prepared to wait a while for it - there does not seem to be an urgent need for a Church, or even a hospital. So he will probably want stone and a very solid foundation, etc.

I'll be having him send of for a Manual of City Building - an Abadarian holy text - and if he can manage it he would be keen to hire an architect to help plan the town and ensure that the Church is a beautiful building.

Right so Verik will craft a Headband of Disguise for Zander, taking 2 days and 900gp - of which 450gp is a loan from Verik to Zander. Verik does not meet the Disguise Self prereq, so it ought to be DC 11 since its only CL 1. He takes 10 for a 16.

One thing to add: for spells you have no access to, you'll need someone who has the spell to assist. The reason for this is twofold: to prevent shenanigans with the creation of items above your level. This may not be an issue now with limited funds, but it definitely would be possible to create items based on 6th level spells when you only have access to 4th in terms of what you can cast. The second reason is for RP and potential quests.

So I cannot create the Hat of Disguise then, not having Disguise Self? I would like any house rules clearly spelled out so I can decide whether I want to keep the feat please. Maybe some examples with specific items, etc.?

I always thought that needing to be able to cast the spell was just a regular rule, not a house rule.

We could just pick up a Scroll of Disguise Self and have Taisper assist in the crafting since Disguise Self is on the Inquisitor list. I'm sure one of these traders passing through has a few first level scrolls for sale and an extra 25 gp to the crafting cost is no biggie.

Do I have to know the spell, or just be able to know the spell? 'Cos I don't have Disguise Self and wasn't planning on taking it, though I suppose I could certainly be talked into it.

EDIT: *facepalm* Never mind. Totally glossed over the whole 'buy a scroll' bit. Duh. Note to self: don't reply to threads before you've finished your coffee.

Crafting is a bit of a poorly-phrased mess with little clarity. The "must have access to the spell" is always a ruling that I've used. I do this because it has the same wording about knowing the proper spells for wondrous items as it does for scrolls. I don't think anyone would accept making a scroll without knowledge of the spell.

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the item, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require. The act of working on the item triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the item's creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

The creator must have prepared the spells to be stored (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any focus the spells require as well as material component costs sufficient to activate the spell 50 times (divide this amount by the number of charges one use of the spell expends). Material components are consumed when he begins working, but focuses are not. (A focus used in creating a staff can be reused.) The act of working on the staff triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the staff 's creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

Requirements: Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item's caster level.

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator's level must be known.

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create spell-trigger and spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

I've always taken this to mean that the main caster must know/prepare the spell personally, or get hands on someone who does and take the +5 DC. Otherwise, if he had the funds, Verik could create a Manual of Bodily Health +5 (which requires wish or miracle) as a mere DC 27 Spellcraft check. (Difficult for him, but look at a 8th level wizard with 22 Int and full ranks in spellcraft. That's a +17 on Spellcraft, so he can take 10. Seems a little early to be casting wish.)

I think Jemini will start with a mithril shirt; but will follow up with a scabbard of vigor once she's got enough money.

...then again, I guess it depends on how quick such a shirt could find its way to Oleg's... - if he can only arrange for it after we return from our next outing; then I'll go get the scabbard first. I can just see if working really nicely for Jemini. Thanks for the suggestion!

I've always taken this to mean that the main caster must know/prepare the spell personally, or get hands on someone who does and take the +5 DC. Otherwise, if he had the funds, Verik could create a Manual of Bodily Health +5 (which requires wish or miracle) as a mere DC 27 Spellcraft check. (Difficult for him, but look at a 8th level wizard with 22 Int and full ranks in spellcraft. That's a +17 on Spellcraft, so he can take 10. Seems a little early to be casting wish.)

That's exactly how I do it as well - except I include all "extra" requirements. If you need to be evil to craft the item, then you can have an evil friend help you craft (at +5 to DC); but you cannot craft simply by virtue of concentrating harder.

Speaking of our next outing, what are you guys thinking? We've still got that mountain and the rest of the area around the tatzlwyrm pit to explore to the west and then a lot to still explore in the east. And then of course we now have a pretty solid lead on the Stag Lord's location being down the river near a lake. Here's how I look at our choices:

A: Finish off exploration in the West.
B: Explore to the East.
C: Head South after the Stag Lord.

I'm in favor of a cautious approach so my votes go A, B, C in order. What's everyone else think?

lol - I'm enjoying Verik's & Tandlara's crafting dialogue. I just wait for the subtle innuendos to become more overt.

I'm for
A
C
B

By the time we're done with "A", we should be ready to head for the Stag Lord (i.e. level 3); I (and Jemini) don't want to wait too long before going after him.

Eh, I can see where you are coming from - I don't believe thats how its intended to be read from various developer comments on the Paizo messageboards - but I think its fair enough, and I'm inclined to think crafting with Tandlara will give a great deal of RP mileage, lol.

Now I just need to find out if Tandlara has Disguise Self... Right she does not... Seems like the best solution would be to buy a scroll, have Tandlara teach it to her familiar - which by my reading costs nothing, but destroys the scroll - which will take an hour and then do an accelerated crafting - if we can assume that Tandlara had a 1st level slot left open?

That way we get the job done for an additional 25gp, and Tandlara gets a decent spell added to her repetoire - win win?

It'll be enough if it is on somebodies spell list, since a scroll (or more than one if you need to craft multiple days) will work adequately.

Depending on Oleg's response regarding the mithril shirt - Jemini will commission a scabbard of vigor, if Verik can find the time and means for it.

I counted the square immediately to the west as explored, leaving only the mountain to explore in that quadrant. Getting there, exploring, and returning would take a total of three days if there are no unforeseen delays.

I emailed the current map to Jemini.

I'm afraid that the Scabbard requires a 3rd level spell, Greater Magic Weapon, 4th level really since that's when clerics get it and Witches don't get it. So I can't do it practically with the rules in this game.

Well I could, but we would need access to a divine scroll of Greater Magic Weapon - 700gp - and Verik would need to make a caster level check - might be able to take 10, not sure - and roll a 4 or more. So for a little risk you could save 200gp, if there is a scroll of GMW available.

I don't think Disguise Self is in the Witch spell list so it would have to be Taisper to help, yes?

Either way, I think it will be fine.

I would be up for heading towards the Stag Lord, I am sure the rest would level on the way. Its a long trip though right? Verik won't want to miss Taxfest!

There's the Boggard closer at hand, Verik has access to Share Language now so we ought to be able to communicate if Verik can persuade the Boggard to let him touch it. might be worth a trip if we are waiting on for Taxfest.

Huh, you are right, dang it seems like a Witchey spell to! Yes, so he'd need to enlist Taisper I suppose. Which also means we need to find a divine version of Disguise Self I suppose... Bum.

Talk about interesting RP...

The newest maps are up at my university repository :)

That reminds me, it would also work to convince a suitable caster (say a level 5 wizard) to cast Greater Magic Weapon for us. That would be significantly cheaper.

Or if we can get a caster in-debted to us, we open up more spell options for free. Speaking of which... maybe Jhod is high enough level to provide level 3 (or even level 4!) spells. ...only one way to find out: everybody sneak attack him!

*looks at -2 stealth check*
*sighs*

Um, maybe just a Charge instead?

Dang! I was eager to see how the Berrin/Gadrick thing came out.

So what are you going to do today?

BTW, Verik is now level 3. He should notice that his morning prayers are answered with NEW SPELLS.

As of post #1802, here is everyone's experience. From post #1175 to #1802, you all each earned 658 experience for combat, certain non-combat (i.e. Reggie, the boggard), and hex exploration. RP experience ranged from 796 to 911.

Berrin 4451
Jemini 4736
Taisper 4650
Tandlara 4273
Verik 5035
Zander 4450

Our average experience is 4599, which is 86.6% of the amount necessary between level 2 and level 3. Seeing as we are at post #1802, we are pretty much right on target (within 50 posts) of where we want to be considering the goal of leveling every 1000 posts.

Awesome! The roleplaying XP for pbp posts must be the single-best design decision ever.

So: how many days til Taxfest? About 37ish? That's probably enough time to finish exploring the west. Celebrate Taxfest. Slay the raider lord. Subjugate the remainder of the wilds.

I don't think we can wait for the Stag Lord til level 4 (which is where the PDF finishes) - so once we've all made level 3, there should be no reason not to strike him.

Was Verik able to get a divine scroll of Disguise Self? Or do I need to abandon the Hat of Disguise?

Regarding the divine scroll of hat of disguise. It might be worth our while to travel - as a party - to one of the more established places (say Restov). We can do some shopping for unusual components, and maybe lay a couple more cornerstones to bring the Lord Mayor to justice.