Dog #3 DC 13 Dex Save Versus Burning Hands
Dog #4 DC 13 Dex Save Versus Burning Hands
Dog #3 DC 14 Dex Save Versus Faerie Fire
Dog #4 DC 14 Dex Save Versus Faerie Fire
Dog #6 DC 14 Dex Save Versus Faerie Fire
Dog #1 attacks Alex and Pip
piercing.
piercing.
Pip DC 12 Con Save Versus Disease.
Dog #2 and #3 attacks Alex
Dog #2
piercing.
piercing.
Dog #3
piercing.
piercing.
Alex DC 12 Con Save Versus Disease.
Dog #4 attacks Pip
Dog #2
piercing.
piercing.
Dog #5 and #6 attacks The Slice
Dog #5
piercing.
piercing.
Dog #6
piercing.
piercing.
The Slice DC 12 Con Save Versus Disease.
|
@DM: Don't forget dog #2 has 12 hp of damage on him
@everyone else. Dudes. Idunno.... Erdann, you made your check, so are you telling us everything behind those spoilers?
Two of them have taken as much damage as I have total, and are still attacking TWICE. Slice is gone, Alex is about to.
I don't think we can win this one.
Thoughts?
I did make a post sharing the knowledge i learned. Feel free to look through the spoilers up to the 21 that i hit. my intent was not to leave anything out but to express it in in-game speech.
@DM: Don't forget dog #2 has 12 hp of damage on him
@everyone else. Dudes. Idunno.... Erdann, you made your check, so are you telling us everything behind those spoilers?
Two of them have taken as much damage as I have total, and are still attacking TWICE. Slice is gone, Alex is about to.
I don't think we can win this one.
Thoughts?
The damage on dog #2 is in the Active Effects spoiler.
The dogs rolled extremely high and yes they have two heads so they do get two attacks per round.
@ The Slice
So if you Disengage as a Bonus Action (Using Cunning Action feature) That leaves a standard action and a move, so if you move (30 feet) and use your standard to dash (30 feet) then you will be 60 feet away and not 90 unless I am missing something?
Will wait for Alex and Jelly to post up before processing.
@ The Slice
So if you Disengage as a Bonus Action (Using Cunning Action feature) That leaves a standard action and a move, so if you move (30 feet) and use your standard to dash (30 feet) then you will be 60 feet away and not 90 unless I am missing something?
Disengage = Bonus action
Move = 30'Dash =3 0'+30' (Used as a standard action) = 90'
NOTE: This was debated on the Wizards coast, but Mike Merals jumped in and clarified that this was the case.
@ The Slice
So if you Disengage as a Bonus Action (Using Cunning Action feature) That leaves a standard action and a move, so if you move (30 feet) and use your standard to dash (30 feet) then you will be 60 feet away and not 90 unless I am missing something?
Disengage = Bonus action
Move = 30'
Dash =3 0'+30' (Used as a standard action) = 90'NOTE: This was debated on the Wizards coast, but Mike Merals jumped in and clarified that this was the case.
Yes it was clarified that the dash action lets you take your movement speed again but doesn't increase movement speed.
Your movement speed is 30'
Move - 30'
Dash - Lets you move your speed again. 30'
Total 60'
Sage advice: "Dash lets you use your speed again. It doesn't increase your speed."
Based on the information that Erdann shared with us, they have twice as many attacks, twice as many hp, a special debilitation to their attack, and there are an equal number of them.
I see no way to win this.
Just to clarify the encounter balance math, the set encounter falls in the 'Hard' category but does not fall in the 'Deadly' category.
For 6 3rd level characters the encounter XP falls at:
Easy: 450 XP
Medium: 900 XP
Hard: 1350 XP
Deadly: 2400 XP
Here is the build for 6 CR 1 creatures.
Characters: 6 (large party)
Monsters: 6 (group)
XP to award: 1200 XP
Difficulty multiplier: 1.5
Adjusted Difficulty Rating: 1800 XP
Encounter Challenge Rating: 5
Now given their opening attacks were brutally high with a critical in the mix as well. Running is definitely always on the table.
One thing to consider however....
The dogs speed is 40 feet which means the only player that could successfully out run them is The Slice. By using his Move, Standard Action and Cunning Action all to move then he could move 90 per turn which beats the dogs taking full movement at 80 per turn (Move plus Dash)
If others are going to run then you definitely are going to have to come up with a distraction or some way to slow the dogs down from giving chase.
Just trying to give everyone an overview of the encounter and its design since I know a few of you are new to 5e. I am not out to purposely kill anyone and I want to make sure you have as much information about an encounter as possible, that is why I post the DC's to know things about a creature.
Good luck.
P.S. The dogs have no ranged attack. Levitate. Fly, etc. would greatly benefit. As would focusing fire, because each one taken out drops the attacks per round by two each time.
|
|
Oh, no, I'm not saying that you are out to kill us, I'm just admitting that I am new to 5E, and I don't understand how a creature as tough as a 5th level fighter (40hp, 2 attacks) can be considered the same CR as my quasit (7[14 effective]hp, 1 attack). Sure the quasit has a few other things with it, but in a straight fight there's no comparison.
This debacle is all because of the high random rolls, combined with not so high from us. Happens sometimes...
@ The Slice
So if you Disengage as a Bonus Action (Using Cunning Action feature) That leaves a standard action and a move, so if you move (30 feet) and use your standard to dash (30 feet) then you will be 60 feet away and not 90 unless I am missing something?
Disengage = Bonus action
Move = 30'
Dash =3 0'+30' (Used as a standard action) = 90'NOTE: This was debated on the Wizards coast, but Mike Merals jumped in and clarified that this was the case.
Yes it was clarified that the dash action lets you take your movement speed again but doesn't increase movement speed.
Your movement speed is 30'
Move - 30'
Dash - Lets you move your speed again. 30'Total 60'
Sage advice: "Dash lets you use your speed again. It doesn't increase your speed."
Well that clears that up. Thanks, I was looking for clarification on that. Thankfully if they use two moves they won't have an attack left, so if I can lead them off. (Build up a lead, then hide). We might still pull out of this one.
Oh, no, I'm not saying that you are out to kill us, I'm just admitting that I am new to 5E, and I don't understand how a creature as tough as a 5th level fighter (40hp, 2 attacks) can be considered the same CR as my quasit (7[14 effective]hp, 1 attack). Sure the quasit has a few other things with it, but in a straight fight there's no comparison.
CR in 5e is a little wonky because so many things effect it. The Quasits combination of resistances makes it effectively 14 HP but it also has magic resistance to spells that gives it advantage, it is IMMUNE to the poisoned condition so even the dogs disease would only have partial effect. The disadvantage is due to the poisoned condition that the disease inflicts.
A Quasits attack is poisoned and relays the same disadvantage as the dogs. Quasits have the scare tactic as well as that super ability to be invisible until they attack which gives disadvantage to ones trying to attack it until that time.
It also has a fly and climb speed.
Look at it kind of like this... you have a 5th level fighter and a 5th level bard. If you put them through the CR criteria they probably would not be the same as each other due to all the different things that make up a CR. A CR is a formulation of an offensive CR and a defensive CR that come together to get the average CR of the creature.
Now if you are curious as to what Wolfgang's Cr would be you can use this spreadsheet to figure it out.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=11 89
I am guessing probably a CR 1 or 2
|
|
Alright, fair 'nuff.
With that said, The Slice, can you please circle around so Jelly can heal you?
Jelly? Can you please be a cleric and start using your Healing Word to heal The Slice? Also, you have the highest AC out of all of us with your shield. Could you please join the melee line so the dogs can't target-fire Alex down so quickly?
Had a really long busy weekend, I will try and get the game caught up tonight. Please bare with me.
Dog #6 DC 12 Dex Save Versus Flaming Sphere
Dog #2 and #3 attacks Alex
Dog #2
piercing.
piercing.
Dog #3
piercing.
piercing.
Dog #4 attacks Pip
piercing.
piercing.
Pip DC 12 Con Save Versus Disease.
Dog #5 attacks Quasit
piercing.
piercing.
Quasit DC 12 Con Save Versus Disease.
One dog dead, another on the run. You got this. Stay strong.
Alex needs some help. (Double Crit, Ouch)
|
The disadvantage caused by the diseased condition applies to saves and attacks... does it apply to death saves?
The root of the disadvantage makes me think so -I mean, you are deeply sick... you are screwed- but I wanted to be sure.
Edit: I checked it... it actually seems to apply. Here.
|
Since death saves reset upon healing HP above zero, Alex should get up and fight again. By the way, since actions are processed in the order they are posted, if you get down again, wait for me to go, then you go, that way I can healing word you and you can act on your turn, now if we were in actual init, we couldn't do it that way, but next time wait for me.
The disadvantage caused by the diseased condition applies to saves and attacks... does it apply to death saves?
The root of the disadvantage makes me think so -I mean, you are deeply sick... you are screwed- but I wanted to be sure.
Edit: I checked it... it actually seems to apply. Here.
Correct.
Dog #4 DC 12 Dex Save Versus Flaming Sphere
Dog #4 DC 13 Dex Save versus Burning Hands from Pip
Dog #5 DC 13 Dex Save versus Burning Hands from Pip
Dog #2 attacks Jelly with disadvantage on the first head due to Warding Flare.
piercing.
piercing.
Jelly DC 12 CON SAVE if needed.
Dog #3 attacks Pip.
piercing.
piercing.
Dog #5 attacks Dunwich.
piercing.
piercing.
|
|
@The Slice: Of note, I'm between you and the dogs. If you wanted to retcon your action(s) so you are shooting with your bow, right now that would be very, very nice.
(I -think- we're just a couple of points from killing Dog #2. It would be 31 flavors of awesomesauce if you could hit it with one arrow and put it down right now. =)
The Slice is at least 90' and probably closer to 240' away. I've stated in the ooc's of my post that if there is anyway to climb a tree and snipe that the Slice would do so, but apparently there isn't as I'm not getting any feedback.
The chances of him hitting with his disadvantage aren't very good, but I really don't have any feedback about the tactical decisions. A little frustrating.
|
|
Oh, yeah. Fair enough.
Of note, the long range of a shortbow is 320. And since you're at Disadvantage anyway, it doesn't really cost you much to just roll some dice and see how it goes. =)
And we're in a forest. I don't think the DM would have any problem with you just saying that you climb up a tree.
But if you are 240 away, if you're not safe that far away, being 240 away plus up a tree might not make you any safer.
But a few arrows' worth of damage might make or break us.
Just think about it. =)
glad to see those damn dogs finally failing some saves. it's already bad enough that save values seem generally higher than in PF/3.5 and DC values were nerfed.
The Slice is at least 90' and probably closer to 240' away. I've stated in the ooc's of my post that if there is anyway to climb a tree and snipe that the Slice would do so, but apparently there isn't as I'm not getting any feedback.
The chances of him hitting with his disadvantage aren't very good, but I really don't have any feedback about the tactical decisions. A little frustrating.
The first round you disengaged I ran you 60 feet away to the west (see map) since that was the maximum movement. Last round you didn't say you were moving or doing anything so I left you there. If you want to shoot some arrows then go for it, its not a dense forest and you already have disadvantage.
Also of note is that you hardly ever state map squares when you are moving. That helps be tremendously when trying to figure out where you are going.
Is there an issue for you where you can't use/see the map?
I'm not sure where the disconnect is. I stated in the OOC three times now that the Slice was leaving combat so I assumed he was off the map, therefor3 couldn't post a position on the map. (Unless this is Skyrim, and he reached the end of the graphics :-)).
The second time I mentioned that he would run unless there was a tree he could climb and shoot... so you keep saying I haven't acted, when I assumed he was out of combat as I never got a response. I'll just pretend he's climbed a tree about 75' away if that works, and shoot some arrows next round...
I'm not sure where the disconnect is. I stated in the OOC three times now that the Slice was leaving combat so I assumed he was off the map, therefor3 couldn't post a position on the map. (Unless this is Skyrim, and he reached the end of the graphics :-)).
The second time I mentioned that he would run unless there was a tree he could climb and shoot... so you keep saying I haven't acted, when I assumed he was out of combat as I never got a response. I'll just pretend he's climbed a tree about 75' away if that works, and shoot some arrows next round...
Works for me.
Also, I am sorry that the updates have been slow coming this week, been really busy and trying to get caught up. Am processing the round now.
Dog #5 DC 12 Dex Save Versus Flaming Sphere
DC 13
|
|
Mrrmph. I'm still unconvinced that the encounter wasn't unwinnable...but that we won it certainly seems a good point of evidence to the contrary. o.O
DM Asmo: How cheesy would you deem it if I cast Hex (with a duration of 8 hours) in the morning, and then took a short rest? It's a concentration spell, so it's not like there's no penalty (which is why I never was able to cast True Strike during the fight) but I can see how some might frown upon that, so I just wanted your take on it first. =)
I think we're just gonna rest in town for the next 24 hours so everyone can get over their social diseases. :p
Jelly, please be sure to case Resistance on everyone that is infected so they can make their saves.
I'm not sure what other buffs we can get, but if anyone has any ideas, now would be the time. =)
I dont have any buffs
DM Asmo: How cheesy would you deem it if I cast Hex (with a duration of 8 hours) in the morning, and then took a short rest? It's a concentration spell, so it's not like there's no penalty (which is why I never was able to cast True Strike during the fight) but I can see how some might frown upon that, so I just wanted your take on it first. =)
I believe for Hex to have an eight hour duration then it has to be cast in a 3rd or 4th level slot. Which you do not have at the moment.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.
Hex is a concentration spell, therefore, even if there is no creature to bounce to, Hex lasts as long as the Warlock concentrates on the spell for up to the duration. If there are no creatures left to bounce to, a Warlock can continue to concentrate on the spell until a new one enters his range and use his bonus action to apply the Hex to the new target.
So you could literally keep it up for the full time as long as something did not manage to break your concentration or you did not cast another concentration spell.
Resistance is a cantrip, I can't switch those out, cantrips are stuck. Divine spells level 1 or higher can be switched out. I did not take resistance as one of my cantrips, I took guidance.
Guidance is the one that adds to skills. I think that was just a mistake.