Appreciate the thought, Noro, but I know enough of this module and if Plugg or Scourge find out I want the job, they will keep me from it. The two of them will delight in making our lives horrible. That's okay for Durvin, since he finds a silver lining in every cloud. When we have our own ship, then he can worry about whether he gets the crow or not.
As for climb and swim rules, I've been juggling the idea in my head about making it a base speed, then adding distance to it based on what the DC was passed by. So say everyone climbs/swims 5', which seems more appropriate to current rules (Humans at 7.5, smallers at 5'). Meeting the base DC is 5'. For every 5 over DC is and additional 5'. There may be holes in it, and I haven't discussed it with my group to see what they think, but it's the rough idea I have.
Drunk GM will think about this in the morning. Arrrr! <3
one houserule that I use in my home game is I roll Climb and Swim together into their own skill called Athletics, similar to how Balance and Tumble got rolled together to make Acrobatics. That doesn't address the issue at hand but I'd like to propose that. It lessens the skill tax for martial characters plugging along with their 2 skill points/level.
one houserule that I use in my home game is I roll Climb and Swim together into their own skill called Athletics, similar to how Balance and Tumble got rolled together to make Acrobatics. That doesn't address the issue at hand but I'd like to propose that. It lessens the skill tax for martial characters plugging along with their 2 skill points/level.
As much as I prefer 4E to PF in the first place, this was one of the changes they made that I didn't agree with. I also do not like the less skill points but 1 time +3 bonus to class skill change of PF over 3.5.
Climb, and swim (also jump which I don't like it being in Acrobatics, but can see it a little bit) are different types of actions. Despite the fact that they use Str, are untrained usable, and suffer armor check, I can't see having a high mountaineering dwarf be an excellent swimmer just for the sake of skill points. Or a deep diving spear fisherman able to scramble up a wall with ease.
I also dislike the limited number of skill points classes get considering how many skill do so many different things. I think the best method (despite being too much record keeping) was the 3.5 skill ranks x4 at first. That allowed 1 in a craft, maybe 2 in a profession, with a point or two leftover for some other things reflected in character. Due to this, my simple PF solution was give 1 extra rank at 1st level to be used in either a craft or profession. If nothing else, it gave a little extra background to what the PC did before they became an adventurer. They did something while growing up other than learn to become an adventurer.
Wizard has a healthy fear of plummety death.
I can sort of see the logic of climb being related to base speed, but it might be better if they made it flat-rate with a modifier based on size. Smaller (and larger) characters have shorter (longer) reach, and so when they reach for that next projection, it makes sense that given identical rolls a larger creature will out-distance a smaller one. It doesn't really make sense, though, that a Commoner with no mod who takes 10 on the rolls will consistently go faster than a Halfling who does the same and has a significant positive mod.
well look at the fancy damn frog with his climb speed!
Climb, and swim (also jump which I don't like it being in Acrobatics, but can see it a little bit) are different types of actions. Despite the fact that they use Str, are untrained usable, and suffer armor check, I can't see having a high mountaineering dwarf be an excellent swimmer just for the sake of skill points. Or a deep diving spear fisherman able to scramble up a wall with ease.
Well they rolled Balance and Tumble together to make Acrobatics, and threw Jump in there for good measure. A tightrope walker uses different skills than, say, a capoeira artist. Balancing on a narrow ledge could just as well be ascribed to Climb as Acrobatics.
I tend to think of Acrobatics as "Feats of movement and nimbleness that the character has practiced", and my houseruled Athletics (didn't know they did that in 4e) as "feats of movement and strength that the character has practiced". I'm sure that Ian Thorpe could do quite well going up a rock wall due to his musculature and endurance, and Alex Honnold could swim pretty well for the same reasons.
Is it a super detailed and accurate measurement of physical potential? No, of course not. But consider Perception - it covers hearing as well as sight, as well as searching through a room, frisking somebody for hidden weapons, finding a secret door, etc - but not noticing the subtle tells of a lier (that's sense motive). My 20/200 vision but great hearing attests to the silliness of a single score covering how good your senses are, and the idea that by practicing I could get better vision (and get that practice by punching people, no less) is also silly.
I'd be careful trying to get too simulationalist with d20 skills. It's a decent system but fairly abstract. I'm also all for giving those poor bastard fighters a little more bang for their buck when it comes to their lonely 2 skill points per level.
I play a lot of rangers and I was very glad to have Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction combined into Survival, Hide and Move Silently combined into Stealth, Search, Spot, and Listen combined into Perception, and Open Lock placed into Disable Device. It makes playing a character who puts some skill ranks into a craft, profession, performance, or knowledge that much easier.
TLDR non combat skills are awesome and make characters interesting and everybody should get more.
As much as I prefer 4E to PF in the first place
Oh now that just won't do.
As for the skill discussion, just about everything Reck covered I have to agree with. the +3 bonus is just a good representation of the ease of training someone would have by focusing on a skill related to their profession. having some 3.5 characters start with skill ranks in excess of 50 was a little crazy. being able to start with ranks in LITERALLY every skill as a rogue, even WITH the split skills (hide, move silently, etc.) was...unnecessary. Even if you look at it from the other side of the coin, a 1st level character had a RIDICULOUS amount of tallying to do JUST in the skill section. So much math and tracking that nobody wanted to play a bard or a rogue, and so many ways to split skill points that completely arbitrary strategies opened up (not that there's anything wrong with deviant characters, but it was insane, even to me.)
Don't get me wrong, I came into D&D on 3.0 and I love me some original sorcerer/dragon disciple action, but PF did make some improvements in that area.
4E, in general, just felt like an MMO to me, rules-wise. Couldn't really accept that.
All Noro sees up there a round sooner is a lovley meal of fried frog legs.
sometimes she hates to loose. but she doesen't really care. unless she looses to Reck, now that is just unacceptable!
As much as I prefer 4E to PF in the first place,
4th what? Pathfinder has a 4th revision to the rules? or is that some other game system that I am completely unaware of
[please read with a sarcastic tone]
I never got into 4th edition maybe I couldn't find the right group or maybe there just were not enough options i really don't know it is just an edition I never really could enjoy.
I like Sarenth's take on climb/swim just like jump, where distance is determined roll. The only issue, is that with jump the obvious part of not making distance is the fall, but do you keep a target DC to climb, +so many feet based on the roll? It seems in the end, it would still be simpler to do base DC +5/extra 5'
I did a post a long time ago (around one of my first here on Paizo) about the MMO 'feel' to 4E. The real issue can be narrowed down to the presentation. I took the 4E turn undead, and the 3.5 one, and the only difference really was layout and appearance. Post Here
If you look at all the different powers between each game, they are fairly close.
At-will (cantrips and just about every melee attack, and even most Combat maneuvers)
Encounter (any power that has a 1 min duration, or measured in rounds Rage, Mutagen, some domain powers. Most things you only use once/combat)
Daily (every spell, or very limited use powers like Smite or Tactician)
Was the system very gamist, yes, I will agree to that hands down. That's okay though, because all I need from game rules, is how to adjudicate the game side of things. I don't need rules for how to role-play, I bring what I've done with Durvin to all my characters, regardless of system. The onus of RP is on the players, not the rules.
For what it's worth, I'm with Durvin 100% on this. I've had some amazing experiences with 4e and don't quite understand the gripes about there not being rules about how to RP in the books.
I also love me some Pathfinder.
Err... I mean... *Ribbit*
My main gripe with 4E is that I've never played it and don't know any of the rules! :)
I'm happy to change climb/swim rules, since they're particularly relevant to this campaign. What's the concensus, here?
Athletics?
Or +5 dc / +5 distance?
I think its safe to say base speed effecting either is out the window, as I agree, while size would make some difference in two ordinary people, the entire point of playing a character in Pathfinder is being extraordinary.
I don't think Athletics as a skill is uncalled for, though as both a swimmer and a climber OOG, they're extremely different skills. My experience in the butterfly didn't help me at all when I took up rock climbing...
Agreed. Remember, though, I come from WoD, where you lump everything together anyway - and Athletics does indeed cover everything from playing soccer to parallel bars...
As a representation for a game, it works out as long as we put the 4th wall back up and get on with it. I think the idea is that you probably won't be rolling 'just soccer' enough to warrant it being its own stat.
However, as this is a piratey ship campaign where I am sure both climbing and swimming will come up plenty of times, I think there's merit in keeping them separate.
I would propose for both Swim and Climb, base speed = 5 ft. (if Medium or Small), with a bonus if one rolls higher than the DC in question on a 1:1ft. basis. The base speed for larger and smaller creatures would be equivalent to their reach (Tiny = 0 ft., Medium/Small = 5 ft., Large = 10 ft., etc.) or space (Tiny = 2.5 ft., Medium/Small = 5 ft., Large = 10 ft., etc.). Also, keeping the two skills separate makes sense to me.
Then, you raise the DC for trying to climb fast, I assume. (Which was my original plan and makes sense to me.)
Well, you could. I was thinking climbing faster would relate to how well you roll. Like for climbing the rigging, I have to make a DC 10 to climb 5 ft./rd. If I rolled a 15, though, I would automatically make a little extra progress and climb 10 ft. that round. A 12 would have netted me 7 ft. instead. A 7 would net me no progress, and a 5 would have me plummeting to my squishy wizardly demise. :)
I guess you could raise the base DC by 5 to increase the base speed. Not sure how the math would work out on that, though. Maybe adjust the 1:1ft ratio to a 2:1 ft. ratio, and then raise the DC by 5 to add 5 ft. to base speed?
I could see the base speed if someone's invested a skill point. Knowing how to swim goes a long way. Once you've got an idea, you're probably going to stay afloat. Otherwise, people can make untrained skill checks.
You're saying Base Speed of X if trained, Base Speed of 0 if untrained?
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Might as well add numbers into the mix. Base speed of 1/4 land speed if trained (for an easy route, rolls as usual for tough stuff). Rolls as usual for untrained. If you want to do something tricky (climb at 1/2 speed, frex) you're rolling then as well.
I climb 2-3 times a week and I still have a tough time depending on conditions. Same thing would go for swimming. If I were in a storm, it'd at least make things more difficult.
(also, climbing up at 15'/rd is pretty freaking impressive on any kind of surface.)
WHOAH! where'd the talking bird come from? We pressgang some more when I wasn't lookin?
I don't think a separation of trained/untrained is necessary, as those that are trained are more likely to get better results more often anyways.
Putting it back to a fraction of base returns to the original problem of trained halflings having to roll decently higher than untrained humans.
I'm not against making base speed determined by size as Sarenth laid out.
Overall, I like his suggestion. Base determined by size, extra progress figured by a 1:1 ratio of total over the DC. In that case it makes the total rolls more relevant. There wouldn't need to be an increased speed rule, since the roll determines extra speed traveled.
Can we get the daytime and nighttime actions posted in the campaign info thread? Seems like something we'll need to reference a lot. I can just email myself a link to that post, but I think this'd be easier in the long run.
You have these options for daytime actions on the ship, and these will remain the same for each day you're on the Wormwood:
Work Diligently: Gain a +4 on any job's daily task.
Influence: Make normal checks for daily tasks, and try to influence one NPC.
Sneak: Normal checks for a job's daily task, and briefly explore one area of the ship.
Shop: Take a -2 penalty on the day's tasks to visit the quartermaster's store.
Shirk: Tale a -2 penalty on the day's tasks to explore one area of the ship thoroughly. You can take 10 on a perception or other skill checks, but might get caught.
You have these options for the night time actions on the ship, and they'll be the same for every night you're on the Wormwood.
Sleep: Go to bed early and sleep through the night, to automatically recover from fatigue.
Gamble: Play a pirate game! (Will detail when this comes up)
Entertain: Perform checks to entertain the crew.
Influence: Attempt to influence a single NPC.
Sneak: Take time exploring one area of the ship. You can take 20 on a perception or other skill check, but you might get caught.
Steal: Attempt to open a locked door or locker. You might get caught.
As someone who is in a campaign that got randomly and awkwardly violent recently, I just want to gauge how you all feel about it - I don't want to draw this keelhauling business out if its not fun, or overly gruesome, but that extends to further combats as well. The intent of this scene is to give everyone the impression of how nasty the officers on this ship are, not to squick anyone out. :D
Another curious point to wonder - I've been leaving things sit to give people an opportunity to play or respond, and I want to make sure that's what you guys want to do. Feel free to tell me to hurry up if I'm going too slow. :)
I'm still figuring out how to do a pbp, remember!
I was hopeing for more Evil dead style greusome but thats just me, and the pace is fine I have several other games I also keep up with as well as DMing one.
The pace is good. As far as level of graphicness or maturity rating, I'm fine with pretty much anything you can throw at us. Keelhaul him, chop his bits off, fill his wounds with small insects, give hundred-page descriptions of how long it takes him to rot, it's all cool. :)
I'm pretty sure I couldn't even write a page of rotting before I squicked myself out ... so you're safe!
I don't have a problem with graphic violence in text (though I literally can't stomach medical shows IRL). The key is as long as it's not graphic inappropriate violence (e.g. Rape, Pedo, Human centipede, etc..) just to push limits. A nod toward what is happening is enough to get the point across without needing details, especially long-winded graphic details.
But simple violence, blood and gore, is a large portion of what murderous hobos (read: the PC's) do. They kill things and take their loot, and how they do it is just a little immersion flavor-text.
Durvin's disgust is actually just that, Durvin's. He wouldn't be who he is if he wasn't bothered by it.
As far as time and flow, don't feel like you have to wait for a lot of back and forth between actions. A lot of posts are just "I see, acted/reacted IC, and have checked in." Usually, if the players want to explore a topic, they will post more often on it and even if you move on one step they can add a little backtrack and you can stop any more progression on your part. In the PbP's I run I try to wait for everyone to post on any given post of mine, but if it goes a day or two without, I will move on. Sometimes not posting is a sign of having nothing to say or do about the situation.
I figured that may be the case, so I may post 'GM moving things along' posts a bit more frequently, just feel free to poke me about pacing either way. :)
I've been on the internet way too long to be bothered by textual descriptions of gore. IRL pirates were pretty gruesome too - I remember from Defoe's General History of the Robberies and Murders of the Most Notorious Pyrates such scenes as prisoners with their bellies slit, entrails nailed to the mast, and made to run in a circle to pull their guts out.
Pacing is fine as is, but if you sped it up some that wouldn't bother me either. One thing that people can do if we want to do a ton of bantering is get in some form of chat room and do it, then compile and make one single post with it all.
I'm used to games on boards with multiple threads. The sandboxy elements of this kind of game seriously tempt me to move it to a place where that option is available, but I also don't want to make it hard annoying for people who are used to and already checking this site. :/
Happy with chat logs too if you want'm!
i do some of my posting during breaks at work and all chat is blocked as well as most goming sites. these boards are all I really have access to there.
at home no problem though
How about bboards?
Try this one (if only because I'm curious). If people wanna stay here, tis fine with me either way.
http://whisperingshadows.prophpbb.com
I'd rather keep it on these forums. It doesn't bother me if multiple things are going on simultaneously.
yeah, I'm ok with whatever flow we settle on. I'm no innocent sheltered child myself, so descriptiveness will rarely, if ever, bother me; we're supposed to be pirates, after all (albeit somewhat heroic pirates, perhaps.) Probably best if we keep actual posting in one place though. Already got a several PBP's in progress here, and forgetting to check an external site for one would be awkward.
If you're worried about posting out of order, always hit "preview" at least once before you hit submit. ALWAYS. It's actually quite rare for two people to be posting a new entry at the same time as another that conflicts with it, so as long as people doublecheck, you're usually fine.
Fine with me, just throwing ideas out there. :)
Tip for the chef: prestidigitation lets you flavor or spice food, and doesnt require spell components. Makes the rancid beef taste expertly cooked.
CHEATERCOOKING. Yum!
secret family recipe for the win!
the secret ingredient is LOVE*!
*(read: magic.)
Doesn't that wear off after a minute though?
Edit: Hour. Nevermind. That's enough time to eat.
hey Lexi seems you have the distict pleasure of not only being DM for Noro but an adventuring companion as well..
Indeed! Twice!
BTW Noro (here) failed the fatigue check from the day's work so she just went right to sleep no night time actions. don't want to be fatigued in the morning.
let everyine finsh their night time actions Nor is still here just asleep.
Also, as a side note I'm also just assuming that, as we're playing a pirate campaign, nobody minds profanity.
I admit to really liking that the boards censor it, actually. It looks much more piratey to be all exclamation points and symbols. Haha.
Sorry again about the delay for folk who went to sleep! Tomorrow will be soon. :)
I can move on, if you'd prefer.
I've other friends to make.
Eh, natural and fun and freeflowing RP are where its at! I'll post the next morning and we can backspoiler anything else. :)
Just to clarify, folks, you get one (1) Daytime action from the list, and one (1) Nighttime one. :) You can RP doing things in between if you like, trading information and meeting folk, but it won't have any mechanical effect as far as the rules for the boat go.
TPO Durvin gave me an excellent synopsis of all of this information, and I'll be posting it in the Campaign Info thread for easy viewing as soon as I get off my butt and format it. I won't post which NPCs are friendly or what level they're at, though ... that's for you to determine through RP. :)
Ok! The sailing life stuff is posted in campaign info.:) It'll get replaced as things change for ya guys. :)
I stole all this unashamedly from tpo Durvin. :)