
Elisile Starbrow |

On further reflection, it makes more sense for Sefayll to take the Robe of Runes rather than Elisile; she'll get more use from the spell recall and more importantly increased spell DC function. If she's willing to give Elisile her headband of intellect, she's welcome to the robe.

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I’ve got 24 days of spell study, assuming working no more than 9 hours per day – though there’s no real reason I couldn’t cut down the total days by working longer hours. The cost would also be 6,300gp to scribe these spells. Does Mokmurian have any gear or supplies that would help offset such costs?
Also, when / if Elisile (or Sefyall) learn teleport, they can take the group to Sandpoint or Magnimar for selling / shopping.

Sefayll Valerian |

Elisile is welcome to the headband of intellect. Shall Sefayll take the headband of wisdom in return along with the robe?
Definitely want to sit down and make a lesson plan for the spells. Teleport and greater teleport will be welcome additions, but they are in one of my opposition schools, so I am less likely to prepare them without immediate plans to use them.

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Not according to his character sheet. Anyway, those are headbands these days, and I'd let him convert free of charge if he wants (he also doesn't have any WIS enhancement as far as I can tell, which could be folded into that) if he needs to clear his shoulders slot.
I have a +2 CHA cloak and a +4 WIS headband. However, I would very much like Hudak's cloak - both because it gives useful bonuses, and because it pairs well with my Mask of the skull.

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I think Camlo should probably concentrate on increasing the power of the items he has, rather than trying to get new gear. And stuff to maybe increase his mobility so he can get into a flanking position quickly and safely. He rarely (if ever) uses those wands he has, but dropping an Expeditious Retreat on himself before combat would probably help. And maybe a wand of invisibility.

Camlo Zenovia |

The wand of invisibility would be a good trick.
The expeditious retreat wouldn't stack with the boots, but is a better enhancement.
To some extent, this is a side effect of never having played ta this level before... I'm not great at setting up for combat, I need to get better at that.
Upgrading my rapier is probably a good call too....

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And don't forget to use your Cutthroat's Apprentice to set up flanking opportunities where you don't have a partner in the right place.
Indeed... only being 2/day means it's not a panacea, but it's useful when it works.

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OK, let's get some number down here so we have an idea of budgets:
General Looting
- Mokmurian’s books and lab (worth 1500gp but not easily portable)
- 12,000gp
- 1,100pp
- necklace worth 4000gp (giant sized?)
- ivory runestones worth 1,400gp
- scroll of Contact Other Plane (wizard 5)
- map with ‘x’s
Value: 29,900gp, or or 31,025gp if you sell the scroll
Galenmir
- potion of gaseous form
- breastplate (large) +2
- light steel shield (large) +1
- heavy pick (large) +3
- cloak of elvenkind
Value: assuming you keep the potion and the cloak, 23,918gp, or 27,162gp if you also flog the cloak and the potion
Mokmurian
- wand of bear's endurance (13 charges)
- club (large) + defending ans spell-storing
- bracers of armour +4
- robe of runes
- bag of holding type 2
- Mokmurian’s spellbooks, containing all wizard spells in the Core Rulebook up to 7th level (I assume Elisile and Sefyall will share these for study purposes)
Value: we seem to be keeping most of this stuff, so the value of the club is 18,301gp.
Lokansir
- club (huge) +3
Value: 18,301gp.
Headless Lord
- 2 large sized hatchets (magic?)
- large sized plate mail (magic?)
Value: I still need to clarify the value of this stuff
Lamias
- 2 x +2 flails (4,150gp each)
- 2 x Headbands of Wisdom +2 (one went to Hudak, one to Elisile)
- 2 x Rings of Protection +2 (one went to Hudak, one to Alwyn)
- grossly illustrated book (worth 500gp)
- scroll of Remove Curse (arcane version, CL 5) (went to Sefyall)
Value: 8,800gp each
Emerald and Sihedron Medallion 3,750gp
Total: 102,970gp, assuming you retain the cloak of eleven kind, potion of gaseous form and the scroll of Contact Other Plane, or 107,339 if you flog the lot. That's a fairly tasty sum... It doesn't include the Headless Lord's gear, so the final total will be more than that. Assume the dwarven smiths can rework this value into weapons, armour and wondrous items.

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Elisile is welcome to the headband of intellect. Shall Sefayll take the headband of wisdom in return along with the robe?
Definitely want to sit down and make a lesson plan for the spells. Teleport and greater teleport will be welcome additions, but they are in one of my opposition schools, so I am less likely to prepare them without immediate plans to use them.
Might as well, Elisile can't wear two headbands.
Well Elisile will be taking teleport (assuming she makes the spellcraft check to learn it), though she can't take greater teleport yet. She isn't high enough level to take the whole party on one teleport though.

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Ok, found the value of the Headless Lord's gear (7,387gp) so, assuming we keep the cloak and potion but not the scroll, we have a grand total of 113,601gp. Split evenly between the different characters that is 22,720gp each, although how you parcel it out is down to you (given there are items in addition to those being sold which are also being distributed, others being traded in for new ones, and so on). Anyway, 113,601gp is your budget.
Also note that, in enchanting terms, that's 113 man days of work to convert all of that to items (minimum). We can assume there are a few dwarves capable of enchanting things but I'd assume you probably have about a month while waiting for your items.

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Camlo will happily take the bracers as an upgrade to his current +3 ones.
Other than that, I would love some advice on what Camlo should be spending some cash on.
Just a suggestion.
If Camlo takes the +4 bracers he can sell his +3 bracers back for 4,500gp. Add that to his roughly 16,233gp that's 20,733gp. If he then upgrades his rapier and hand crossbow to +2 each (2 x 6,000gp) and his punching dagger to +1 (2,000gp) he can then get a Ring of Protection (2,000gp) and get his Wand of Invisibility (4,500gp) for an overall cost of 20,500gp. None of this is necessarily game-changing but incrementally your attack and damage bonuses go up by 1 each and your AC by 2, which can't hurt.
If you can scrape together another 6,000gp from somewhere, I'd consider getting your Ring of Protection or your Amulet of Natural Armour upgraded from +1 to +2. If you don't bother with the wand, you would only need another 1,500gp. Then that would be an increase to AC of 3.
The dwarves technically can't make the wand and the ring but we can assume the giants can scrape some stuff together from plunder they have lying around.

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I think I'd actually leave the hand-crossbow as it is for the moment, and get the AC upgrade.
+1 on the hand crossbow isn't nearly as useful as the others, or the added AC...
Thanks Aubs... That's really helpful.

Elisile Starbrow |

What do you guys think, should Elisile upgrade her bow (from +1 shock to +2 shock) at a cost of 10,000gp, or upgrade her ring of protection and/or amulet of natural armour (both +1, 6000gp cost to upgrade either to +2)?
Her AC is not that high for this level of play, but then she rarely puts herself in a position to be hit in combat. Her attack modifier with bow is pretty good, but feats like rapid shot and deadly aim reduce it down.

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OK, the grand total is a slightly less rich 81,167gp, or 16,233gp each.
Plus:
Sell Cloak of CHA +2: +2000 gp
Sell Ring of protection +1: +1000 gp
Personal cash: +1453 gp
Total: 20686 gp.
Minus:
Add Guided property to greatsword: -6000 gp
Increase platemail to +3: -8000 gp
Increase amulet of natural armour to +2: -6000 gp
Leftovers: 686 gold, if anyone needs a bump.

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Aubrey the Demented/Malformed wrote:OK, the grand total is a slightly less rich 81,167gp, or 16,233gp each.Plus:
Sell Cloak of CHA +2: +2000 gp
Sell Ring of protection +1: +1000 gp
Personal cash: +1453 gpTotal: 20686 gp.
Minus:
Add Guided property to greatsword: -6000 gp
Increase platemail to +3: -8000 gp
Increase amulet of natural armour to +2: -6000 gpLeftovers: 686 gold, if anyone needs a bump.
Sounds like that will take your AC to a pretty respectable level - high 20s?
What's the 'guided' weapon property? I don't think I've come across that one.

Elisile Starbrow |

What do you guys think, should Elisile upgrade her bow (from +1 shock to +2 shock) at a cost of 10,000gp, or upgrade her ring of protection and/or amulet of natural armour (both +1, 6000gp cost to upgrade either to +2)?
Her AC is not that high for this level of play, but then she rarely puts herself in a position to be hit in combat. Her attack modifier with bow is pretty good, but feats like rapid shot and deadly aim reduce it down.
It also occurs to me that a boost to dex would improve both my attack bonus and AC ...

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I get to use WIS instead of STR when calculating attack and damage. Pretty nifty for a cleric; Kazadar has a guided weapon in the Eberron campaign. And, yeah, my AC is 27 now, and can go as high as 30 when using Demiarchos' Bile and my Ring of foe focus. Not bad for a greatsword-wielding cleric.

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I get to use WIS instead of STR when calculating attack and damage. Pretty nifty for a cleric; Kazadar has a guided weapon in the Eberron campaign. And, yeah, my AC is 27 now, and can go as high as 30 when using Demiarchos' Bile and my Ring of foe focus. Not bad for a greatsword-wielding cleric.
Note this. In particular, "This modifier to damage is not adjusted for two-handed weapons or off-hand weapons—it always remains equal to the wielder’s Wisdom modifier". So your damage mod will be the same on your two-handed sword as if it were a one-handed weapon, it doesn't get the x1.5 increase. To be honest, not a massive problem for you since you damage will still go up compared with STR 16, just not as much as you've put on your character sheet.

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If the wizards want to pick the spells they want to learn from Mokmurian's spellbooks and just grind through learning them, please feel free. Assume you have the time to learn the ones you want.
So Vatters and Camlo are sorted, I think, for gear - Elisile, Illes and Sef to go.

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Elisile Starbrow wrote:It also occurs to me that a boost to dex would improve both my attack bonus and AC ...What do you guys think, should Elisile upgrade her bow (from +1 shock to +2 shock) at a cost of 10,000gp, or upgrade her ring of protection and/or amulet of natural armour (both +1, 6000gp cost to upgrade either to +2)?
Her AC is not that high for this level of play, but then she rarely puts herself in a position to be hit in combat. Her attack modifier with bow is pretty good, but feats like rapid shot and deadly aim reduce it down.
Slightly inconveniently, Elisile has got Gloves of Dexterity and a Belt of Mighty Constitution, when in PF these are usually one item. I can countenance them running as separate items at +2 but I think if you intend to increase the bonuses we need to run more in line with RAW and combine them. The cost of the separate items is 4,000gp each and the combined one is 10,000gp, so that would cost 2,000gp for a start. Taking a Belt of Physical Might (DEX/CON) from +2/+2 to +4/+4 would cost another 30,000gp, so that's out of her price range unless extra funds could be found, and it's maybe questionable if that would be a good idea anyway given the relatively marginal increases. It might be better to trade both in for 2,000gp each and go for a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4 at 16,000gp - marginal reduction in damage but improvement in attack and AC.
Also, Elisile's AC is pretty terrible. Although Janosz is often out of harm's way, the main reason he tends not too take too much damage is his massive AC as he often gets targeted even at a distance. Elisile is a more versatile as an eldritch knight but even so AC 18-ish is quite low and she will be filling a similar role. As a caster Elisile could consider covering this off with spells (Mage Armour and Shield spring to mind - items which would do this, though at cost and maybe less effectively, would be Bracers or Armour and Ring of Force Shield) though as a wizard she'd probably have to rely on items for natural armour, or maybe as a transmuter transforming into a creature with natural armour. With preparation she would not need items too badly.
She could also consider, if she is turning into the missile attack specialist, bracers of archery (which would necessitate losing her bracers of armour). The greater version of these would give her +2 to hit and +1 damage competence bonuses with a bow, though at 25,000gp she might have to sell something. The lesser version are much cheaper at 5,000gp and give a +1 bonus to hit.

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Illes-
Starting gold: 91.33
Sell Mithral heavy shield +510
Sell +1 whip +1150.5
Sell Badge of Valor +700
Loot: +16,233
Total: 18,684.83
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor 2000
+2 Buckler 4155
+2 Belt of Incredible Dexterity 4000
+2 Cloak of Resistance 4000
Lesser Rod of Piercing Spell 3000
Page of Spell Knowledge: Liberating Command 1000
Remaining: 529.83
The switch to a buckler will allow Illes to have a casting hand in melee with a higher AC (26) most of the time. Its not great, but there is always mirror image.
The badge of valor is an awesome item, but seriously it is too awesome. Between that extremely cheap (1400 gp) 3.5 item and a 3.5 feat both granting +1 he has been inspiring courage at a higher level than a 20th level bard since 11th level. I've been slowly retiring 3.5 material as we go and its probably time to let that one go. I'll use the slot for the amulet to bump AC.
If you have other suggestions, I'm open to them. I spent too long going over options because as a jack of all trades items of all types are a possibility and there are sooo many options to choose from. Illes can stand in melee, but his damage output is going to be very low. (Average of 5 points of damage in a round with a 30% chance of crit before buffs. 9 with inspire courage.) I don't see any real way to improve that at this point and it doesn't do a lot of good to slightly bump the damage but leave the AC low. The rapier is already effectively +2 so +3 for a damage property is a little too pricy right now. Considering that, if Illes is in melee the reason needs to be granting Camlo flanking every round possible to make it worth it.

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I’ll probably go with something like this:
Treasure share: 16233
Sell Belt of Constitution: 2000gp
Sell Bracers of AC +2: 2000gp
Sell Medusa Mask: 5000gp
Total: 25,233
Convert gloves of dex to belt of dex: free
Upgrade belt of dex from +2 to +4: 12,000gp
Upgrade amulet of natural armour from +1 to +2: 6000gp
Cost of scribing new spells: 6260gp

AinvarG |

Wow, you all have been busy. I haven't had time to even start with Sefayll's purchases. Some stream-of-consciousness for a moment:
Her AC isn't the greatest and she is still carrying around two halberds. Selling the masterwork one for what it's worth and possibly making the second one a spell-storing or defending weapon might be good choices.
Looking at her armor and abilities, I need to remember that she is burning a swift action every round to avoid arcane spell failure.
I'd like to see if there's an upgrade to her helm because it's supposed to be a big part of her character, but I haven't looked for ideas.
Upgrading her breastplate is probably on the agenda. She shouldn't be in melee often, but if she's ever going swing that halberd, I want to make sure they have to use the big can opener to hit her...
I have a day off tomorrow, so maybe I can get some traction here, but, as always, I am open to suggestions. Might not use them, but I always appreciate them.
More to come...

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Illes-
Starting gold: 91.33
Sell Mithral heavy shield +510
Sell +1 whip +1150.5
Sell Badge of Valor +700
Loot: +16,233
Total: 18,684.83+1 Amulet of Natural Armor 2000
+2 Buckler 4155
+2 Belt of Incredible Dexterity 4000+2 Cloak of Resistance 4000
Lesser Rod of Piercing Spell 3000
Page of Spell Knowledge: Liberating Command 1000Remaining: 529.83
The switch to a buckler will allow Illes to have a casting hand in melee with a higher AC (26) most of the time. Its not great, but there is always mirror image.
The badge of valor is an awesome item, but seriously it is too awesome. Between that extremely cheap (1400 gp) 3.5 item and a 3.5 feat both granting +1 he has been inspiring courage at a higher level than a 20th level bard since 11th level. I've been slowly retiring 3.5 material as we go and its probably time to let that one go. I'll use the slot for the amulet to bump AC.
If you have other suggestions, I'm open to them. I spent too long going over options because as a jack of all trades items of all types are a possibility and there are sooo many options to choose from. Illes can stand in melee, but his damage output is going to be very low. (Average of 5 points of damage in a round with a 30% chance of crit before buffs. 9 with inspire courage.) I don't see any real way to improve that at this point and it doesn't do a lot of good to slightly bump the damage but leave the AC low. The rapier is already effectively +2 so +3 for a damage property is a little too pricy right now. Considering that, if Illes is in melee the reason needs to be granting Camlo flanking every round possible to make it worth it.
I tried to come up with some comments on Illes but, as you mentioned, as a jack-of-all-trades it was kinda tricky without a view on what the strategy is for him. I'm a bit relieved you decided to ditch the badge - as an item it's fine as far as it goes - but not for that cost!
Illes seems like an arch-buffer for the party, so his contribution to combat is less in hitting people and more in providing bonuses through Inspire Courage and Haste. His Enchantment spells are also good for taking down an enemy, in much the same way as Sef. But the choices you have made seem perfectly sensible.

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Wow, you all have been busy. I haven't had time to even start with Sefayll's purchases. Some stream-of-consciousness for a moment:
Her AC isn't the greatest and she is still carrying around two halberds. Selling the masterwork one for what it's worth and possibly making the second one a spell-storing or defending weapon might be good choices.
Looking at her armor and abilities, I need to remember that she is burning a swift action every round to avoid arcane spell failure.
I'd like to see if there's an upgrade to her helm because it's supposed to be a big part of her character, but I haven't looked for ideas.
Upgrading her breastplate is probably on the agenda. She shouldn't be in melee often, but if she's ever going swing that halberd, I want to make sure they have to use the big can opener to hit her...
I have a day off tomorrow, so maybe I can get some traction here, but, as always, I am open to suggestions. Might not use them, but I always appreciate them.
More to come...
Sef is becoming the primary arcane caster for the party, so you need to play to your strengths. At the moment her gear seems to be trying to compensate for her weaknesses in combat, but hopefully she won't actually be going toe-to-toe with anyone much - of all the PCs in the party, Sef is probably the last one who should be engaging in actual melee or missile combat. Instead she should be concentrating on melting the brains of the enemies with Enchantment spells.
So I would not spend lots of money on your weapon. It is already +2, making it a +3-equivalent would cost about 11,000gp and not really give you anything much back in return. I'd even be tempted to sell the +2 halberd and get a +1 one instead, which would net you 2,000gp (though that might be a bit of a waste). I would ditch the Belt of Giant Strength since an enhanced STR is not worth it for your character, netting 4,000gp. I also wouldn't worry too much about the Helm of Telepathy - it isn't very useful in combat, and upgrading it would be very expensive. You could also flog your Ring of Cold Resistance +10 if you wanted for 6,000gp.
One of the weaknesses of Enchantment spells is their relatively short range. You can address that with a metamagic rod of Enlarge Spell, at a cost of 11,000gp, which will affect up to three spells a day up to level 6. That way you can hang back and still melt brains, largely out of danger. Other than that, I would consider getting your breastplate and your ring of protection upgraded to +2 (at a total cost of 9,000gp). Even if you aren't in melee, you can still be targeted at range.

Sefayll Valerian |

Yeah, spell-storing on a weapon is of little use when you aren't planning to hit anyone with the weapon. I was thinking of it as a one-charge staff, but that's now how it works.. I'm not inclined to downgrade the halberd, however.
The strength enhancement was less to get better at melee than to avoid a penalty to movement from being so weak. Even with the belt, she only has a strength of 11.
The helm is very central to the concept of the character class though I'm not doing a very good job of emphasizing it. It is her bonded object, required for her spellcasting, and enhancing it seems natural. I've only been trying to use the telepathy when more viable options are not apparent, but it's pretty much a wasted ability so far. However, adding comprehend languages and read magic would not be terribly expensive. +5200x150% (if I read the additional ability rules correctly) for a total value to the helm of 7800, 3900 to add it. Maybe not today, but not unreasonable in the long run. There may be better ability choices that are appropriate to a helm that just aren't built into one of the standard helms, also - I need to see what abilities are associated with that slot.
Upgrading AC, a rod of enlarge spell, a rod of persistent spell, all are great ideas. Primary goal for the interim will be studying the spellbook and possibly scribing some scrolls. I've made some headway on that homework, but it's not complete.

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Yeah, spell-storing on a weapon is of little use when you aren't planning to hit anyone with the weapon. I was thinking of it as a one-charge staff, but that's now how it works.. I'm not inclined to downgrade the halberd, however.
The strength enhancement was less to get better at melee than to avoid a penalty to movement from being so weak. Even with the belt, she only has a strength of 11.
The helm is very central to the concept of the character class though I'm not doing a very good job of emphasizing it. It is her bonded object, required for her spellcasting, and enhancing it seems natural. I've only been trying to use the telepathy when more viable options are not apparent, but it's pretty much a wasted ability so far. However, adding comprehend languages and read magic would not be terribly expensive. +5200x150% (if I read the additional ability rules correctly) for a total value to the helm of 7800, 3900 to add it. Maybe not today, but not unreasonable in the long run. There may be better ability choices that are appropriate to a helm that just aren't built into one of the standard helms, also - I need to see what abilities are associated with that slot.
Upgrading AC, a rod of enlarge spell, a rod of persistent spell, all are great ideas. Primary goal for the interim will be studying the spellbook and possibly scribing some scrolls. I've made some headway on that homework, but it's not complete.
The helm has not been very useful. I wouldn't spend over 7k on enchanting it with a 1st level and 0th level spell you can cast with spare slots you are unlikely to use any other time - it seems a waste of money, no matter how central to the character it is. Re the belt, she has a medium load anyway so again it might be better to just carry less stuff, but the belt slot won't be all that important to her anyway so it probably doesn't matter.

Sefayll Valerian |

Tentative plan, but I think it's pretty final:
Starting cash: 295
Treasure share: 16233
Trade Elisile Headband of Wisdom +2 for Headband of Intelligence +4
Claim Robe of Runes
Sell +2 Halberd: +4155
Sell Ring of Minor Cold Resistance +6000
Working with 26683
Upgrade Breastplate to +2 -3000
Upgrade Ring to +2 -6000
Purchase Amulet Natural Armor +1 -2000
Rod of Enlarge Spell -11000
Main issue at this point is how much the scribing materials for the new spells are going to cost. I might not get the amulet so I can scribe more spells...

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Mokmurian will have loads of scribing materials lying around for free - I'd rather you were well-equipped and had the spells. Since you've only spent 22,000 and have 26,600 to play with, you might as well keep your halberd +2.
If Elisile spent money on those, she can get her money back as well.

Sefayll Valerian |

Actually your remark about what I was carrying made me take a look - I'm carrying relatively little - woefully underequipped because I sunk so much into the helm (I know, I know) and the halberd is a rather significant amount of weight for my low strength. Between it and my (mithral, no less) breastplate, over half my capacity is spoke for.
A handy haversack or similar magical carrying device is way overdue and far more important than the halberd. She might purchase a necklace with a halberd charm as a reminder of her office, but as you say, she has no business wielding the real thing. A dexterity enhancement would not be out of place, either - I would claim the Con belt that got sold, but I would rather bump my ranged attack roll and AC.
A little shopping left...

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I tried to come up with some comments on Illes but, as you mentioned, as a jack-of-all-trades it was kinda tricky without a view on what the strategy is for him.
The strategy has shifted a few times along the way, but is always basically caster bard, buff/debuff. When we started the game I was planning to go into one of the late era 3.5 bard prestige classes with a ton of spell like or supernatural abilities. Some early choices were hitting prereqs for that, but once pathfinder came out it didn't make sense to go back to 3.5 and also wasn't necessary. I'll probably continue on the path of high focus on buffing and taking individual enemies out of a fight when possible through spells and bard stuff. Removing debilitating conditions is a another thing I'm putting some thought into now through spell selection. Third priority is filling in other gaps in the party like melee. Given the opportunity I will probably contribute more in that department through charm monster than rapier. I haven't used it in a while, but it is probably going to be a valuable tool in the toolbox going forward.