Aubrey's Other Eberron Campaign - The Unbinding (Inactive)

Game Master Aubrey the Malformed

I think Pooma's folk were Cold Suns, but there were coloration differences between them and the ones backing the shaman.

All of the "normal" lizardfolk (per the Bestiary) are Cold Suns, although there are a number of tribes underneath that. The Finbacks are one such tribe, and Pooma's crew are the River Serpents.

Shame about PF, well at least it upped the stakes considerably.

If I have understood correctly.

Cold sun, Black scale and Poisondusk are essentially subspecies under lizardfolk.(Cold sun being the "standard")

With each one being divided into tribes. I do not know if any of the tribes have more than single type of lizardfolk among them.

Good luck to rest of the crew rip them a new one.

My apologies, as well, 137ben. I certainly didn’t mean to get you killed, but I didn’t do a good job of throwing my vote in for “stand down” before I unexpectedly went off-line yesterday. (Chalk it up to another of the quirky things about PbP … sometimes you just can’t get to the boards quickly enough to give your input.)

I liked Portforge, and I hate to ever see a PC death. Sorry, man.

I suspected that we might have found an opportunity to affect our circumstances if we’d have surrendered, but

It was entertaining seeing you guys try to figure out what to do. It did make me view Will as less than noble...

Yeah, I'm sorry too. I don't think the guys realised what a vicious little bastard that shaman is. He wasn't interested in negotiation. And yes, DMB's expectations were effectively correct - it wouldn't have wanted to end the campaign with you all just being murdered, though to be fair that would have been metagame knowledge.

Assuming one or the other them doesn't die, I'd suggest either Vaard or Ashshar in the meantime as a replacement. They don't have class levels but that can be retrofitted. Vaard would be my choice, as he doesn't really have a personality that's come out in the game so he's a reasonable blank slate. If necessary we can rejig his stats. I'd intended him to go fighter but there's no reason he can't be a completely different character class.

If he survives (which is a big if at this point), Vaard sounds like a good choice. I'm thinking of having my next character be a warlord or warder, so if you already saw Vaard as a fighter then that would fit.

Yes, the noble cavalier didn't quite live up to the reputation...

And on the up-side, I've now got a villain NPC the PCs totally hate!

That's for damn true.

Yeah, I didn't like him before. It's a whole new level now.

Yes, the noble cavalier didn't quite live up to the reputation...

So now it would be my fault? Ok i'll take the blame.

Just for the record i would like to point out that:

1) William in character and in game held his action as soon as he heard the translation (he doesn't speak draconic), stopped combat and lowered his weapon.

2) said what he tough of the situation in common to the group (from a non meta point)

3) Myself (the player) also posted on the ooc thread that the character would surrender alongside the group it that was the choice.

4) With 4*Lv 1 CLW spell in a group of 6 PC with two Warforged i have tried my best to keep up all those involved alive. The Scroll was indeed used on james with the follwoing reasons. 1) all cure spell are 50% effective on Warforfed. 2): He is by hismelf after cole on the same fighting effectiveness then rehil or myself. 3)His ability to carry me around the battlefield allwoed me to be what i do best: provide combat / healing where it is needed.

5) Still ooc this lecture of the situation is still the same:
with one hostage do you: lower and drop your gun, have every one at the mercy of the Bad guy with the hope of making it trough.

That is the only thing that my character said. Let me SAY it again. William Only spoke his mind about this particular difficult question, and I, the player, Said that the character WOULD follow everyone into surrendering.

So how is that MY fault ?

No, it's not your fault. It was Nalverren's comment that tipped the balance in the end. And I PM'ed you so this would be between us.

But since we are now discussing this openly, my comments were more about roleplaying your character specifically. It was a tough no-win situation but you seemed basically happy to write PF off. Now, if the character was Neutral (or worse) that would be fine but your character is 1) supposed to be good and 2) has cavalier edicts where he is supposed to do more than just shrug when someone gets into trouble. That doesn't mean I would expect you to immediately charge down the slope and engage the shaman or whatever, but I would expect more than, "Meh, whatever." And mainly I'd expect that because your character is predicated on that - the edicts are intended to be a driver for roleplaying and provide a balance to the mechanical benefits you derive from being a cavalier.

Now, as I said, it is my duty as DM to point this out. It is your role to either take it on board or decide if this game is for you.

From the PFSRD:

Order of the Paw

Edicts: The cavalier must strive to protect his community from rampaging monsters and fearsome conquerers alike. His first priority is to aid halfling communities, but he also is sworn to protect those who cannot protect themselves from such threats in the wild. He must never take any action that would put a halfling community or an innocent creature in jeopardy.

I was a bit disappointed by Will's attitude, to be honest. As a cavalier he is required to uphold ideals and be a bit heroic, and while he is not going to be defending any halfling communities any time soon it doesn't mean he gets a free pass to do what he wants. The attitude to Portforged's plight wasn't wrong as such but it jarred, and was not in line with the letter or the spirit your cavalier edicts. I don't require Will to be suicidal to protect the innocent, but you didn't even seem interested in doing anything about it.

To be honest, your play style is pretty selfish in general - you didn't heal anyone until they were basically unconscious, and used your most powerful healing on your dog. Now that's not a problem - until you accept roleplaying restrictions through being a cavalier and then largely fail to live up to them. You might want to think about the way you roleplay your character - as it is he is a bizarre mash-up of classes presumably selected less for roleplaying than for mechanical benefit. Again, there's nothing wrong with that - except that your choices come with roleplaying implications that need to be observed.

As the DM it's my job to police this sort of stuff so please bear it in mind.

Combat 1 intro
Spell: In combat : CLW on Cole, Rehil. Out of combat Rest + CLW on Rehil + Cole

Combat 2 (Lizzy + Turtule + Lizzy.)
Spell : In combat SoF on himself, CLW on Grazzat, Cole, Wultram

Combat 3 (Poison dusk @ poma’s)
Spell: In combat: CLW on James, Out of Combat: CLW on James, Wultram, Cole. Next Day CLW’s healing on Cole

Combat 4 (flying things)
Spell in combat: CLW on himself, Out of combat: CLW on Nalvereen, Himself

Combat 5 (Poison dusk lizzy)
Spell in Combat: SoF on James, CLW*2 on Himself, out of combat CLW on Cole

Combat 6 (Giant Flying Bug)
Spell used out of combat: CLW on Himself

Combat 7 (other Flying creature)
No spell used in combat or right after it

Combat 8 (Poison dusk Lizzy) Current Combat
Spell in combat : CLW on Ashatar, James, Wultram, other NPC

Total buff used 2; CLW on the others spell used
----

You are probably right DM this game isn't probably for me.

My core character concept as written was for my character to start level 1 as a Cav due to background story (failing to make ranks) then then moving on to Oracle.

Having no healer at the start of the adventure i switched Class Build up around in order to have healing since first level.
Mechanically: the benefit of having the extra feat of spirited charge made little impact since this mounted character concept is going up the mounted combat feat tree using his notural allotment of feats. The only real mechanical benefit is to provide martial weapon proef. In the current setting it didn't provide anything as william only had access to his starting weapon the club. So in fact this class was chosen more for the Bg fluff then the mechanical advantages.

And so i respectfully disagree on most of your comment. I feel that James/william have been pretty effective in combat (both in tanking strong opponents and dealing damages) Provided healing (Those in harm's way would of course get more damaged done. Cole Has done a tremendous job of using the best of his repair abilities as a Melee Beatstick). And i respectfully still continue to disagree William wasn't happy to right PF off and if that was your feeling than i do offer my sincere apologies about it.

William's current Comment's best effort at the moment is to try to take down the fight as fast as possible so that we can flee with those that are downed but stabilized.

Your character is effective, that's not actually in doubt - very effective in combat. It's the roleplaying bit that bothers me. If you feel you want to step away then that's up to you.

I am sorry that my comment tipped the balance in the end. I feel that what was said was what Nalverren would have said, given the circumstances.

Actually, i dont think he would have said anything, and should have slipped away into the jungle to save his own hide. That said, that hardly helps things in a pbp, and i didnt want to have us spend a month of him trying to find you all or worse, unite a new party. So, as a draconic speaker, i stepped in and tried to negotiate a situation where we go to see the chief like the shaman wants, but also arent 100% helpless so we have a better shot at escaping.

This might sound like an angry post given that discussion has heated a bit, but i assure you I'm not angry, just kinda explaining my actions and my character's actions a little bit.

You are not to blame.

At a certain level, it was bad DMing - I allowed myself to be backed into a corner and didn't think through the ramifications. So I don't think anyone should feel "blame" about the situation except me. Beyond that, I also wasn't attempting to apportion blame to make Will feel better.

I've been thinking about it a bit since it happened (Will's issues are actually a side-show and basically unrelated). While it was Nalverren's action that tipped the balance, he was hardly the only party member who didn't exactly jump to follow the shaman's demands. To a certain extent, I also had to roleplay a really nasty, murderous little poisondusk shaman and keep it "real" to his personality. But as PCs you have free will and are free to do what you want.

But in the end, it was probably - at a metagame level - wrong of me to kick off the situation in the first place. While metagaming is something normally to be avoided, as a DM you need to balance these things out to make the game enjoyable. While the situation had its benefits - it was very dramatic, and the denoument probably unexpected for everyone including me - I probably wouldn't do that again as it was really the DM trying to take away PC choice in a fairly blunt way.

Certainly, Nalverren didn't "kill" PF. The shaman did, and he was controlled by me.

It's a bit like life - stuff happens which maybe you wouldn't do again if you had the choice. Anyway, it looks like we will need to find a new party healer.

I agree. I dont feel blamed. And PC death happens, i just usually prefer it to be me because i know other people get more attached to their characters than i do, and i suffer from new-character-itis, so my PC dying gives me a chance to play a new one.

That said, self preservation is high on Nalverren's priorities.

I'd say PF's death was better than him having died from falling off a cliff, or the blade of a trap. At at a certain point, death has to be real for PCs. If you think you can't die, there is an element of fun lost (for me at least). And the shaman is an evil guy, evil guys kill people.

Hey, I can arrange something for Nalverren if you want...

Yah, that was a tough situation all the way around. And other than PF (which makes it all the more painful), no one is completely without some share of the responsibility (well, okay, Wultram's hands are probably clean). And I mean that from both the player and character perspective. I also appreciate Aubrey mentioning his perspective on everything.

side note: that shaman's gotta die!

From an RP perspective, PF's death is going to be a very formative moment for Cole. His own feeling of helplessness and responsibility in the moment—coupled with the shaman's words about how metal-men value other metal-men—yah ... this little encounter is certainly ripe with character development for Cole. I'm still working through it at this point.

And if this game is still potentially going Mythic ... yah, Cole's choice of Guardian is all but in the bag. Protecting his friends just became a foundational component to Cole's motivation.

And finally, Wultram! 137ben! Post for Will! Let's keep this thing rolling! :D

Personally, I blame Wultram for the whole thing.

Seconded

I don't blame anyone. I don't think it was any one person's fault. It was partly my fault for leaving my character vulnerable. After that, it was a group thing.

Now, since this is out in the open, Algar Lysandris, you asked me if I wanted to take over your character permanently. I haven't thought about it a lot, but I think the answer is no. You already gave your character a personality and story, and I'd rather write my own (the Aubrey suggested I take over Vaard, who, while already a part of the campaign, is essentially a blank slate. Your character isn't.)

I was somewhat surprised when you said you were considering dropping out. Ultimately that is your decision though (and partially Aubrey's).

I would like to also remind every one/

the following information that we gained on the Poison Dusk

The rest of the tribe take their portions and other lizardfolk bring out wooden drums. They begin to play, providing a rhythmical backdrop to the conversation. Pooma gets to the point.

"I fear for my tribe. The poisondusks are stirring the tribes for war. They will attack those which do not side with them. And those that do side with them will be destroyed when they try to fight the humans, as always happens. House Tharashk will want to punish those responsible for the loss of their people and camp and may not tell one tribe from another. And now Kalaktua....

"But the poisondusks speak of the holy places being defiled. Even if you are not responsible, tribes other than the poisondusks have confirmed it. And it provides the excuse the poisondusks need to rouse the tribes for war.

----
We have been in a bunch of fights with that specific tribe already. I tough that is was clear that our DM made it apparent that this tribe of lizardfolk want nothing better then kill us. So it stand to reason that there would be nothing but certain death after been taken prisoner. (on top of the fact that we fough and killed others at pooma's village and that this tribe is really aggressive and dangerous), (and we have 2 Npc along with us)

I don't think anyone had forgotten that.

I certainly hadn't forgotten. I have disliked the little SOB since our first encounter. The PCs certainly would have been mistrustful of him given what they knew.

Meta-game I now wish I'd had Rehil capitulate sooner and am sorry PF died as a result.

While I thought Aubrey's action a trifle precipitate, on another level I applaud him for keeping true to the shaman's character.

I hope that we can hold the players together.

On an entirely different note -- this has been a great fight for Rehil. If he dies in this one it will be a good death.

Will, are you in this game or are you not?

At this point, I think it is best you leave the game. Thank you for your contribution.

Personally, I blame Wultram for the whole thing.

Wasn't that obvious it was he who smacktalked the shaman on the first encounter and again this time resulting in the little bugger to come from the other shore.

And the death was decent in my opinion. The shaman at least by perception of him is that he is a total a$&&!~&. So makes sense that they would try dirty tactics and not have issues with killing people that are helpless. Of coarse PC death is never nice but if it was not in the cards why even roll any dice in combat.

We essentially got really Effed(How I hate censorship) up by the enemy. They got an ambush on us while heavily out numbering us while managing to split us and still having superior positioning. I am slightly surprised we have been doing as well as we have. Really drives home the point that we are in hostile territory.

I do like what this will mean development wise. Untill now the lizardfolk were mostly enemy of circumstance and even by misunderstanding to an extenct. I would say that changes now, I know at least Wultram will turn very nasty towards them.(assuming he does not meet the same unfortunate fate as PF)

Just so we're all on the same page (those of us on top of the cliff, anyway). My first inclination would be to have Cole dash off the cliff after the shaman ... thus ensuring he couldn't go after Wultram.

But that'd be twice I rushed off without ensuring the cliff-rtop folks were fully taken care of ... which bit us last time around, and I didn't want to duplicate that mistake.

So don't read Cole's "we need to get down there and help Wultram" as a "You guys go help Wultram, I'm staying here".

I just would really, really hate it if Cole bailed ... which then emboldened the final lizard warrior (who's now flanked and can't easily withdraw) to make an attack on the elf standing between himself and freedom (which, if successful is all but guaranteed to at least drop him to negatives) ... which, once again, gave the son-of-a-b+~*& shaman another way to force our hands into a "surrender or another one dies" situation with Rehil up top by bringing the heavily-armored lizard-man back into play.

I just figured we need to consolidate the one position of strength we have, then using that as a platform to move to help those in danger down below.

... plus, i'm secretly hoping that Cole's continued challenges to the shaman will weaken the resolve of his followers. It's a long-shot, i know, but it's there.

Well, just to clarify the tactical situation, one lizardman has been thrown in the river and the other is basically running away. That only really leaves the shaman on your side of the river as an immediate threat.

Yep. Understood. But given the nastiness of this encounter—and the similar nastiness of the shaman—I'm playing it conservatively in terms of assuming the turtle-shell-lizard warrior is fully out of the picture.

Again, I'm having to straddle that line between character knowledge and player knowledge.

I'm hoping the fact that one good leap from Cole puts him within range of Wultram will deter the shaman from going after him .. given that he will have to spend time looking for the mage where-as Cole can go straight to him.

You badly wounded the lizard-warrior with a massive critical, and you can tell she (yes, she) was badly injured. If that helps.

EDIT: mis-read your post ... yah, chasing down a retreating lizard isn't Cole's priority at this point. we've cleared the top. Now we can focus on getting down to our friends below.

Hey, I'll happily recycle that 19 into a death-from-above charging critical on the shaman! :D

Talking of which...

Ben, Vaard is currently built on a standard 15 point buy. Since everyone else is on a 25 point buy that means you have an extra 10 points to allocate (assuming you don't want a total rebuild). Also, lizardfold racial bonuses are +2 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT, so his basic unmodified stats are:

STR 15
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10

He has two racial hit dice, so I would simply treat those as levels 1 and 2. As a lizardman he gets some quite nice racial abilities and traits, not least a +5 natural armour bonus to AC, so I think they roughly balance out at this stage with class levels. The others are level 3 but I suspect might be level 4 by the end of this fight, so you can add one or two class levels.

Vaard's stats are set out in the campaign page. However, his skills might need a bit of explaining. As a Humanoid, per the Bestiary, he gets 2 skill points + INT modifier per HD. As a Humanoid, his class skills are Climb, Craft, Handle Aminal, Heal, Profession, Ride and Survival. I think the Bestiary implies he gets Acrobatics too. In addition, as a lizardfolk he gets a +4 bonus to Acrobatics and, as he has a natural Swim speed, a +8 bonus to Swim. So his skills are currently:

Acrobatics +7 (1 rank +3 class skill +1 DEX +4 racial - 2 shield)
Climb +5 (1 rank +3 class skill +3 STR - 2 shield)
Swim +9 (+3 STR +8 natural Swim speed - 2 shield)

Hey, I'll happily recycle that 19 into a death-from-above charging critical on the shaman! :D

I'm sure you would. Still, throwing a lizardman 20 feet is also quite impressive.

I'm happy with it.

Talking of which...

Ben, Vaard is currently built on a standard 15 point buy. Since everyone else is on a 25 point buy that means you have an extra 10 points to allocate (assuming you don't want a total rebuild). Also, lizardfold racial bonuses are +2 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT, so his basic unmodified stats are:

STR 15
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10

He has two racial hit dice, so I would simply treat those as levels 1 and 2. As a lizardman he gets some quite nice racial abilities and traits, not least a +5 natural armour bonus to AC, so I think they roughly balance out at this stage with class levels. The others are level 3 but I suspect might be level 4 by the end of this fight, so you can add one or two class levels.

Vaard's stats are set out in the campaign page. However, his skills might need a bit of explaining. As a Humanoid, per the Bestiary, he gets 2 skill points + INT modifier per HD. As a Humanoid, his class skills are Climb, Craft, Handle Aminal, Heal, Profession, Ride and Survival. I think the Bestiary implies he gets Acrobatics too. In addition, as a lizardfolk he gets a +4 bonus to Acrobatics and, as he has a natural Swim speed, a +8 bonus to Swim. So his skills are currently:

Acrobatics +7 (1 rank +3 class skill +1 DEX +4 racial - 2 shield)
Climb +5 (1 rank +3 class skill +3 STR - 2 shield)
Swim +9 (+3 STR +8 natural Swim speed - 2 shield)

Okay. If you don't mind, I'd like to rebuild him as a warlord to help him keep up with the other PCs. I'd prefer to be able to focus on boosting and protecting the group and let the big barbarian Cole take care of directly killing enemies.

His background is essentially set, but I have some other ideas for his motivations (in addition to the obvious of protecting his tribe).

(This is all assuming Vaard isn't killed in the next couple rounds and becomes a PC. If that happens I guess we'll have to introduce a new character).

OK. It's not a class I'm especially familiar with but we can roll with it.

But he'd still have the 2 racial hit dice as a lizardman and then the levels in warlord on top of that.

I've heard good things about Dreamscarred's classes in general, but I've never seen any of the Path of War stuff in play.

:: shrugs ::

I played a Warlord in the conversion. I didnt like it particularly. Action economy is rough for group buffs, and the recharge mechanic for maneuvers encourages risky play.

Of course, the other issue is what to do about Will. There's no compelling in-game reason for him to leave the party right now but we don't really want to continue with an NPC healer longer than we have to. Do you want to carry on and see what happens or open it up for recruitment?

30ft - 10ft free - 10ft for acrobatics check = 10ft of damage? I mean, only 2hp difference in this case, so i guess only marginally significant.

You don't get 10 free feet. The first 10 feet is non-lethal. Damage above that is lethal.

Of course Aubrey is free to rule otherwise as DM.

Well Path of war is more of a rebuild of ToB than a conversion since I think everything is new. I have not played it but they looked pretty interesting, each class from the glance I took had lot of tough choices to make on what to get.

On Will and healer issue. We could probably handle things with consumables but that requires us getting back to civilization to get those things. If we are still going with mythic that will give some buffer. That being said eventually status removal will be an issue. We are also kinda lacking in the caster department.(Especially with the death of PF)

With will gone we will have.

Wultram: Full caster but very limited area of influence
Rehil: If he keeps getting ranger levels eventually he will be able to cast things.
Nalvarren: Investigator does have extracts but those come with some added limitations.

So we might need some help. On the pluss side Wultramn can heal himself and as levels add up he will be more resistant/immune to some things. Cole also has some sturdiness on account of being warforged.

Oh and Rehill if you mean the shaman Wultram hit it and croc twice with channel energy I think they failed their saves so both have taken 4d6 damage iirc.

EDIT: Oh and not sure how mounted rules work regarding climbing so did not take the turn. Would it require a riding check?(Don't see anything but seems not like it would be the easiiest thing to stay in the saddle)

Will never bothered with Ride checks but instead Climb checks for James. Will has a saddle so it's not unreasonable to go with the same approach.

Nalverren can heal himself and if he gets a certain feat his extract can heal others. But he expressed a desire not to be the party healer. Consumables are fine but if you run out it can be tricky and it's not like you have a lot right now. Will can hang around as an NPC or not, depending, but I don't want that to be a long-term solution. Mythic is unlikely to be much of a buffer since the difficulty of the challenges go up with the mythic levels. Also, I doubt you will be going all the way up the mythic ranks to unkillability any time soon (or ever).

Nalverren wrote:

30ft - 10ft free - 10ft for acrobatics check = 10ft of damage? I mean, only 2hp difference in this case, so i guess only marginally significant.

You don't get 10 free feet. The first 10 feet is non-lethal. Damage above that is lethal.

Of course Aubrey is free to rule otherwise as DM.

** spoiler omitted **...

The ground isn't soft and is covered with things like tree branches and so on, so the first 10' are not non-lethal, I'm afraid.

Fair enough.

Also regarding healing, i dont mind being a healer, i just dont want to do that as an Investigator. It isnt even CLOSE to passable as a healer, especially against Aubrey-fights.

Well Path of war is more of a rebuild of ToB than a conversion since I think everything is new. I have not played it but they looked pretty interesting, each class from the glance I took had lot of tough choices to make on what to get.

I haven't played any of the classes, but I've used the disciplines and maneuvers in my group's 3.5 campaign (using the ToB classes but giving them access to PoW disciplines.)

On healing: if other people want, I could make a vitalist instead of taking over Vaard. That would solve the healing deficit. It's not my preference, but I'd do it if y'all think it would be best.

Don't mKe something you don't want to play. If we recruit a replacement, one of our requirements can be that it be someone interested in playing a character with solid healing capabilities.

Don't mKe something you don't want to play. If we recruit a replacement, one of our requirements can be that it be someone interested in playing a character with solid healing capabilities.

agreed

Thirded. However, it wouldn't hurt if Tenro could do a bit of back-up healing. But it shouldn't be his primary focus.

Yeah I say we should recruit a "healer"(as in no need to necessarily be healing focused just being a cleric for example would be enough even if it is a battle cleric.)

Bit late responding to all the things but I will anyway.

Mythic buffer: Yes naturally the challenges will increase but mythic gives -2xcon negatives for starters, and it allows some spreading out in abilities for relatively little cost It isn't much when considering the increase in challenges but it does make everyone a bit more sturdy.

Consumables: Right this moment we are relying on scrolls and potions. Those are pretty much the worst consumables when it comes to healing. The important tibbit about that statement was the we would need to get into civilization. Few wands of CLW(or infernal healing is even better especially with warforged) and some investment into UMD by people goes a long way for out of combat healing.(275 and 500hp per wand respectivly) The real issue with this approuch is status removal and tying up funds to make sure you do not run out of juice. (and of coarse currently not having access to them.) Short of it can be done but it comes at a cost.