Sorcerers, Bloodlines, and Purpose.


Classes


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Morning everyone. I previously voiced my concerns over Sorcerers and over time gathered some ideas which I hope will be well received. I have loved the Pathfinder1 take on the Sorcerer, a magical creature more than an adventurer, approaching magic in the way a monster should more than as a scholar, and this personal take has that idea in the background.

Firstly, I will write this thread under the assumption that the non-change that MUST happen will indeed happen.
Second, I will write each proposal in two parts: a suggestion and a reasoning. I hope that you will disagree with the first and agree with the second, because maybe I won't get the fix right, but it's the issue that matters.
Lastly, sit back, get a packet of crisps, and have a good read.

Sorcerer, version two.

Core changes:
-health per level up to 8. Trained in simple weapons and light armour.
Oh yes, I'm doing it. I'm gishing this bad boy. There are currently no classes aimed at gish roles, even the Bard is much more casting-oriented, so why not give the Sorcerer a new niche? He does pick from the Divine and Primal lists if he wants to, so he has that option. If he shows no interest in it and prefers pure magic, he is still sturdier than a plain old Wizard - he could replicate the niche previously covered by Oracles and similar classes. Note that Sorcerer having the same chassis as a Wizard is a leftover from when he was a "wizard-but-not-quite", and he is now much more than that (plus, wizard's flexibility went up, so...).

Main feat "aim":
-adding new magic-themed feats, such as healing metamagics, minor powers, and nature-themed feats.
Currently, Sorcerer feats feel very much like Arcane feats, and while blasting is a good perk, try blasting with a Divine list and tell me how it goes. There needs to be more option geared towards sorcerers that do not take an Arcane list.

Bloodlines and bloodline powers:
-six bloodline feats per bloodline, to be picked at levels 1, 6, and 10.
Bloodlines feel like massive bulk buy packages right now, with powers being mandatory feat choices. While the non-change sees them becoming selections, there is still little variety. This is aimed at giving a personal touch to your Sorcerer and making the bloodline more relevant to YOUR gameplay. More on this on the bloodlines themselves.

Heightening:
-Keep heightening as 2 chosen at start of day.
Before you bite me, keep reading. I am unsure about heightening myself, but I can see it as a valid tool to differentiate spontaneous casters. A very good spontaneous casters can have many heightenings. A dabbler would have few. That can be acceptable. What is not acceptable is that Sorcerer has 2 and Bard can have 4, which is why I invite you to read the next point.

-Increase heightening by 1 at a time every time the Sorcerer selects a Bloodline Evolution or certain high level Bloodline Power as their feats.
This would be an additional benefits of the feat and would allow a magic-focused sorcerer to really be the master of his magic. It would also maintain the limit on heightening (if 4 is good for the Bard, it's also good for the Sorcerer) from getting out of control, as the new maximum would be 5.

The Evolutions:
-???
Evolutions right now feel a bit lackluster. A varying extra spell known plus a skill, or a fixed high-level spell once a day. I can understand their strength, but what they lack in is flavour. It is hard for me to make a suggestion about them because I do not have a good feel of what they are supposed to be - so this paragraph is just a thought on what they should, likely, become: a way not to get closer to the classes he imitates (scroll, channel, summon, mind spell) but a way to build upon the sorcerer's connection with the magic itself, either by enhancing an aspect of his bloodline or by connecting him with universe concepts that make him stronger in certain areas or situations, such as a Divine Sorcerer's healing being spontaneously stronger in a holy place, or an Arcane sorcerer's flame spells building upon each other's residual energies.

Each Bloodline:
-The six bloodline related feats would be mostly following two themes, with three being magic-enhancing, and the other three developed similarly to a combat style. The current powers would fit in either category on a case by case scenario. It's important that each feat has its bloodline as requirement.
Sorcerer would then have the choice of being a master of his magic, with his bloodline shaping his spell choice and tactics, a magical creature that uses magic to enhance himself, or a mixture of the two. Only the two higher level magic-themed feats would grant heightening, thus making Sorcerers with low heightening possible.
-Aberrant sorcerers would be able to focus on magic that block enemy's senses or ignore said penalties on himself, or to alter their own body in unexpected ways.
-Angelic sorcerers would gain powers that protect them and their allies or damage the unholy, assuming a paldin-esque role in a party, or uncommon and powerful defensive magic and healing.
-Demonic sorcerers would learn to harness the enemy's flaws for their own advantage, learning an opportunistic fighting style or gaining magic that capitalises or builds upon existing penalties.
-Draconic sorcerers would be the magically blast-oriented sorcerers, gaining powerful elemental abilities or learning to make use of their natural weapon and impressive physical features.
-Fey sorcerers would act as tricksters and skirmishers, darting quickly and effortlessly around or focusing on enchantment to confuse their enemies.
-Imperial sorcerers would be the most resilient, using their powerful magic to overpower their foes' resistances or their ancestors' might to strengthen themselves.
These six bloodlines as written still follow, thematically, the guidelines of the playtest book, but splitting them in two paths allows players to tailor the experience of gameplay in a way that fits their concept and style.

Developing these feats as either powers or style feats similar to the Fighter is a matter of detail, and I am trying to keep this generic (at least in the first post - I might write down a few examples later) to encourage discussion rather than a full blown proposal. I just hope that this structure could provide the Sorcerer a healthier base and a more satisfying approach.

As always, thank you for the applause, but now I'd also like to know what you did not like.


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I feel like there is still space for a more casting focused less physical nature or divine caster, so keeping the sorcerer as 6 hp per level seems good to me. The 6 hp and the lack of good class features was supposed to balance out getting an extra spell per level. But it doesn't at all, especially not at low levels.

To make low level full casters (wizards and sorcerers) balanced with partial casters (bards, clerics, and druids) they need something extra. A bard has their composition cantrips. A cleric can have good proficiencies and melee, or channel energy. The druid needs work but it seems that they should be able to melee, have a companion, or have extra good spell point powers. The extra casts really aren't that good, especially considering spells have been turned down a lot so they aren't so effective, and that they don't scale so you need to use your highest ones for level appropriate damage or healing.

The sorcerer powers are not good. I feel like granting an extra pool or ability for each bloodline like channel energy would be a good decision for balancing them with respect to other classes. Their powers could also be improved, but I feel like have powers at a set power level is good for keeping multiclassing balanced.

This extra pool could be based on a stat or have a set number and get extra uses for feats supporting that ability like wild shape.

Some ideas: Angelic could have a heal ability like channel energy. Arcane might have a magic missile pool, or a cast again pool like the wizards arcane reservoir. Demon could have a harm ability like channel energy. Dragon could have an energy blast of the same type as your dragon type, that could turn into a breath weapon. Fey could have an illusion pool to cast fey themed spells that might not be on the primal spell list. I like this pool being Constitution based, but a set number might work better.

On casting I really like free heightening with less spells known. If most/all spells added heightening effects it would balance spell choice between spells. If that was done you wouldn't feel pressured to only take spells with heightening effects, because all spells would have heightening effects. Bards and sorcerers would still be differentiated by spells known. Sorcerer could have 4 at first level and 2 per level and bards 3 to start and 1 per level (with old spells combined and free heightening I think this would be comparable).


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This is similar to what I have been advocating.

Right now, Arcane sorcerers are ok, but Divine, Occult and Primal are all lacking. While returning to Arcane lists only is an option, I don't think it'll be a very popular one.

If this gives options to Divine, Occult and Primal sorcerers that make them viable then I'm all for it.

One of the things that concerns me is the constant demand for channel energy for divine sorcerers; I don't think this is an option (although currently some alternative to Cleric healing is desirable), for the following reasons:
1) Channel Energy is a Cleric thing. It's not right to be stepping on their toes.
2) Divine sorcerers still won't be as good as Clerics (No domain powers, worse weapon proficiencies, worse armor proficiency)
3) Other ways to provide healing may be more thematic

Case in point: Angelic Bloodlines could possibly exude a healing aura (all within 10' heal 1hp/turn). This wouldn't do much in combat, but it would ensure that allies can heal up between encounters in a relatively short time. Thematic, solves the healing problem and doesn't step on the toes of clerics.
Perhaps Demonic bloodlines could have some kind of infernal healing; a spell like power that provides powerful healing, but takes a little time to cast (1 min?) that way, it's not useful in-combat (for that you need spells), but it will cover out of combat healing without using up spells.

Another thing I thought may be a possible innovation is to allow sorcerers to recover a spell slot by spending resonance. (say 1 resonance per level of spell slot?) That would give them a resource to gain extra spells (giving them back their extra spells when compared to a wizard) without having to resort to scrolls (which should primarily be a wizard thing).


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Gavmania wrote:

This is similar to what I have been advocating.

Right now, Arcane sorcerers are ok, but Divine, Occult and Primal are all lacking. While returning to Arcane lists only is an option, I don't think it'll be a very popular one.

If this gives options to Divine, Occult and Primal sorcerers that make them viable then I'm all for it.

Definitely, the idea of having sorcerers with wizard chassis and different spell approach worked well when they were basically covering the same areas - not anymore, so something else is needed. I chose to approach the chassis, others might want to approach the bloodlines, both ideas are valid.

I also dislike channeling, but for other reasons - too much and too good in a situation where nobody else has even barely enough. Healing needs major redistribution... that said, if clericless parties gain access to sufficient healing and clerics just happen to have an overabundance of it, that’s a valid niche and it deserves to be a cleric specialty. But it still shouldn’t be a Sorcerer thing.

Resonance to spells... might be bastardising the system a bit too much. I would say Spell points to Spell slot would fit better, but it stinks of 5e (which is not a bad thing, but we can do better). I would like if Sorcerer was focused on the use of his innate and unique powers rather than burning them to fuel the spells he borrows from other classes. The sorcerer niche, whatever it ends up being, should use what’s unique to sorcerers.

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