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They are indeed, I didn't notice the whole big spoiler tag called items.
I have no issue myself letting you go that route. but Klokk well roughly a third of his kills have been undead of some sort. So he wouldn't help at all.
I like the concept, and will not as DM stand in way IF your character can figure out how. Neither you nor your headband have the K-nature to figure out a DC50 test.
There is a huge nexus of positive energy here when the Forge is active.
Would you be willing to work it into a 5 or 10 level PrC?
Hmm, so I can't control my intelligent item? That makes it substantially more difficult logistically to run things, though I am not concerned about being disobeyed, just from the relationship. I was planning on her being another aspect of my character and eventually turning her into a cohort, but I think I would rather reduce her role a bit.
The call to mind comes from the discipline talents, so it's a variation on the power. It's at will, but only +2.
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Well, I have a lot of plans for my character class, but I was thinking that the transformation could be a very slow advancing template. I recall there were CR buy-off rules from 3.5, so I was thinking that the template could just advance a little notch at each time that I could buy off CR.
10-level PRC would make it much more like the focus of my character (almost like walker of the waste into dry lich), but I was thinking about something smaller.
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Of course you cant totally control an intelligent item, it well has a soul in it for it. You don't have leadership so you cant consider it a cohort, not even a squire as that Level 3 iirc min. You can talk to her as you will. you can even ask her to make a check (and roll in your post) but sometimes she just may decide to say no. After all have you always tell your teachers and everyone that asked you to do something yes? I was kinda thinking that you could toss her into a psiforged body if you wanted down the road, but it would destroy the headband. As in this case cuz its intelligent it is her soul that is causing the helm to grant +4int
Far as the Call to mind from Discipline talents? Can you link it for me.. the only version of 'Call to Mind' I can find is a 1st level power.
truth be told, unless I am bind I see no disciplines on your sheet at all.
You are more powerful than your headband EGO 36 , EGO 44 (you) so you could dominate it, but then it wont be as happy to help you and may flat out lie.
I don't know anything about the CR buyoff rules for 3.5.
I have allowed players to have their race changed via in game quests and such. Instead of taking say level 2, they could take a race with a CR 1 or less. or half the abilities of a cr2, or 10% of a cr10 creature.
Here we go: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/psion/psionic-discipline s/generalist
Ideally there's a way to do the change without losing any levels, but I will keep thinking about it. (I am a bit paranoid about losing caster levels in general, but that's just me)
In 3.5 it was LA buyoff, not CR buyoff (unless it was a different system i am not aware of). It is important to note that LA and CR were two different things in 3.5. However, in the transition to PF, the change may now be negligible due to the increased power in general of PCs in PF vs PCs in 3.5.
EDIT: Klokk, this is specifically what the talent Call to Mind Feorina was referring to:
Discipline Talents (Ps)
Choose three powers from the following list: call to mind, catfall, create sound, far hand, hammer, and telepathic lash.
As long as you maintain psionic focus, you may manifest either of your chosen powers without paying a power point cost, but the power may not be augmented or affected by metapsionic feats. The competence bonus from call to mind is reduced to +2, the effect of catfall only treats your fall as 20 ft. shorter than it is, the duration of create sound is one round per two psion levels (minimum 1 round), and the damage of hammer is reduced to 1d4.
Yes, those are what I meant. The issue with the deathless type is that there doesn't seem to be much middle ground. I don't think there even is a template.
I was thinking that it could be possible to base deathless on a similar undead class. So a lich is +2 CR, so it might be like:
Initial Transformation: Subtype
1st: The touch (refluffed mechanically, naturally)
2nd: Something dealing with the phylactery, which might require a quest
Yes, exactly.
Before I was thinking of heading good lich, but I think the set of circumstances (namely, creation forge) makes positive energy undead more feasible. I feel that the Baelnorn would go this direction if they had the choice as well.
The key thing is that if I took an entire template right away, that would take up essentially half of my character, which is too major, but the whole idea was that she was going to die, so it's not possible to wait.
If all else failed, my plan was to have her jump into the forge and see what happened.
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Yeah going to disreguard that LA rule. How I build my monsters for wrath (as I have way more players then the 4 am susposed to have.. had 11 at one point.. 7 now) is base cr then add levels. each level is in my head +1 CR.
The reverse can be done as I said.. add x template to a character.. break it up over x levels.
At a minimum something that makes you immortal I have to say is with at least 5 levels. As ive done that in the past to players that have picked up elemental templates.
The whole thing will have to be done in game via quests and such.
If you wanted to do it without taking a level cost.. that would be a in effect a mythic quest you do over all ten tiers.
Where did you find that info Tenro? I cant seem to find it anywhere on the srd or the d20pf site. I don't want to come off a dick, but I as I don't know psionics other then a little light reading ive done.. I need to know to know so when I build a psi character for you guys to encounter I can do it right.
where on the character sheet does it say Discipline Talents I cant find it anywhere in the crunch.
I just put the talents under the cantrips, because they are functionally identical.
The reason why I suggested only two is that the undead become immortal with just +2 CR, like the vampire or lich. So I assumed it would be comparable, but it might be the case that going straight undead is the only feasible option.
Here is the link to the Generalist Psion (psionic equivalent to the generalist wizard:
Link
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I think I got it.. Psion is the wizard of psionics. your the univeralisist wizard of the psion. that comes from your type of psion.. that what I get for not even know that much abuot your class.. sorry wont happen again.
Ahh ok. makes sense. Can you edit your list of Cantrips to put a *after those three so I don't get confused again?
Fair enough I see that its only 2. the reason I said 5 is that its a positive energy lich that raw don't allow. Maybe I could see 3 with the influx of all the positive energy.
let me see what I can find out bout + energy undead via raw before I make a ruling or houserule something or other. It is not something I have encountered as a DM or a player with Pathfinder. At the time Klokk ran into the baelnorns, we were using a hybrid system of 1e,2e,3e with % based skill checks.. so there was a fair bit of house rules going on. So mechanically am not sure how to convert that mess of 8 half forgotten memories of 8 years ago into pathfinder raw to make this work for you without giving you far more power then other players.
I am open, just trying to figure a way. Feel free to keep suggesting things, I will check back as im searching the advice and other forums or thinking.
Some ideas DM:
Pg 140 Faiths of Eberron "Major Rites"
Pg 20 Player's Guide to Eberron "Aerenal Half-life" more the fluff of the feat as opposed to the mechanics)
Pg 21 Player's Guide to Eberron "Create Spirit Idol" spell
Psionic Classes and their core class equivalents (in my opinion):
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Aerenal Half-life is a feat that requires you to be an Elf (which you qualify) Your skin becomes sallow and pinched giving you the appearance of a lich. Your bond to the dead grants you 2 benifts.
+1 CL when casting Necromancy spells
If spend a Action Point add the dice to both turning/damge check (ie extra dmg for channel energy in PF term)
neither of those would help out Feorina. But its a good starting point, the fluff is spot on.
The spirit idol is an option, infact it would be required, but no player character know that. The M for it would be the almost flawless Khyber shard. As nobody in the party is either a cleric and samanthia is forbidden from using necromancy as a druid. You will neeed to quest for that spell/scroll/item. This spell was exactly what I was with hinting in the story earlier when talking about using the forge to move feornia into a psiforged. You would Need the to make an idol t do so. same as if you wanted to move your daughter into a psiforged when you can have a cohort.
I cant tell you my NPC's classes, well I could but I am not going to as none of you would be know yet. But the whole you wanting to become undead will be an argument that you will have to fight with them over months or a year (character time) not just a single diplo check.
Sammy is older then Klokk, he has told you that. Klokk is over 500. She appears in her late 20's. Druid is not her only class. infact I can honestly say none of the NPC's on the Council have only 1 class, even ignoring PrC's.
You are all welcome to Dip into whatever classes you want, as long as you can justify it in the story. If you wanted to be a level 1 everything you could.
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after pouring over stuff for honestly most of today trying to figure something out for.. I think that the Deathless type would be the best.
I am thinking 3 level PrC but it will not just as written.. if you can come up with something, or anyone can.. Ill work on it the next couple of days. Also since it would cost 3 levels, it will be a tad better then the raw deathless on the last page.
I do already know what I will do for the triggers and a rough outline of a plan for what you will need to do to accomplish it. but I tend to come up with the story first and crunch later.
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http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m094&page=1?Liches-any-advice
We are not in Golorian, but...
One of the options suggested, as in Golorian there are no good undead, was to become an angel/archon/agathion/et..
Just as ive mentioned being an elemental is an option.. so is one of the other outsiders. You already are an outsider, native. you could take the step to full outsider.
IF your only reason for all this is a character death from old age. But if you are that close, you just may die of old age before any of you are powerful enough to do something like trap the soul.
You could always try and find one of the few good Quori, perhaps one of the Kalashtar.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m094&page=1?Liches-any-advice
IF your only reason for all this is a character death from old age. But if you are that close, you just may die of old age before any of you are powerful enough to do something like trap the soul.
That is basically the point why I made her old in the first place. If there is an ideal ritual that will take too long, then she can't use it. This may lead her to take suboptimal choices such as turn into a regular undead, because despite Samantha's hatred, it still beats just collapsing and dying somewhere.
==> Character Development
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Not saying you cant find a scroll or misc item that would allow you to do that.
But That is a 8th or even 9th for a cleric of Souls Domain. I personially am not aware of a lesser spells. Minor wish/lesser miricle Possibly would fit the bill. Magic Jar perhaps. That will be a specifically researched via spellcraft/arcana type checks. When it comes time for downtime you may do that.
There is the option of elemental bindings, as we are all part outsiders it would work on us. "elemental binding
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As much as I would love to say you can just do at no level cost at all.. I can not justify it as balanced as the others couldn't make the same choice. Well I guess they COULD when they got old, but only half the party or so is old now.
humm that's a good point Maybe there is an option that is available from the forge that would grant that change. It will have to be researched by you heroes in game, not this thread.
I think you are misunderstanding what I am looking for. I am looking for unkillability, but more immortality, as in a long life span, which is not included in the CR calculations at all.
If you notice, the deathless do not regenerate, they are killed like any normal creature.
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Although I have another idea, but it is much more derailing than what I am searching for. Well, derailing is probably not a good word, but perhaps more along the lines of additional complications. And it might not work.
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And that is why it would be a 3rd level prc not a 2 level dip. to account for that.
I was going to modify the druids
After attaining 15th level, a druid no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the druid still dies of old age when her time is up.
to remove the still dies of old age.
and add a couple other things to the 3rd level dip to make it worth it.
Tenitivly i was going present it tonight in a pm after gamin and talking to a couple 3.5 dms about it.
Level 1 - some bonuses
Level 2 - some negatives
Level 3 - Ageless body and other bonuses to countract the negatives.
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Regardless, the it would require you to stay near haven.. or figure out a way to create more manifest zones to irian(positive energy plane). Its a trade off. a form of immortality but tied vary closly to the planer energy given off by the forge, and other irian manifest zones. Perhaps you could research a way to make a portable item that creates a manifest zone where you walk. perhaps that is a function of level 3 of it.
Nobody ages at all while in the proximity of haven. not one second older. but none of your characters known that or even remotely suspect it in the least so I didn't want to bloody say it. its part of the "other unknown effects of the forge"
I will send you a PM. I think this is derailing this thread a bit.
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I summarized things for you that you have discovered via knowledge checks. Feel free to share that or not with the others.
I'm going to wait another day or so for the Heir's answers to a question from me. And let him as Heir close the meeting, unless anyone objects to the motion that Joel made to do so.
no objections
I will try to have my sheet up tonight, and am sorry its taking me so long. Also I will be out of town for a week and unable to post so if anyone wants edicts from me let me know today, also Klokk feel free to GMPC me if needed.
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Roger that will do. Can assume that you are lost within librarium if you wish.. It contains copious tomes on subjects I KNOW you are interested in. No worries bout taking the time you need to get things square. Hope the trip is for a good reason and you enjoy it as well as your able to. Will do so Avelloran, odds are you probally wont die under my control but I cant promise anything :D a huge wing of 100000000 ancient reds could do a flyby attack and raze haven while you are away.
Since he was supposed to start at lvl 5 I will be changing some of his scores around is that ok.
The Libraium is a great idea I want to study all things and add my own books to it.
Rolling spellcraft for the compass I'll have someone look at it later then.
I have and I do like it, I am going to inform the others due to what they found it on of course.
Deliberately vague posts are fun.
I have a work-related formal dinner event to attend tomorrow night, coupled with a project that I have been working on whose culmination is tomorrow morning. As such, my posts may be sparing for the next 48 hours. "Bot" me as needed, although I don't anticipate that being necessary.
back. already indicated what Fabricator was doing.
Sorry, was out of town, will post a bit later.
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So is anyone Not yet familiar with Either the Kingdom Rules or the Downtime rules?
Kingdom Turn
Additional Kingdom Rules
Also the ultimate rulership rules trumps core when is a conflict.
I read the UC rules and the extra you said to read.
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Upkeep Phase
Step 1 - Add Up Costs: None
Step 2 - Pay Costs: None
Step 3 - Determine Capital Attrition: None
Step 4 - Determine Business Attrition: None
Activity Phase
Step 1 - Free Activities Performed: None
Step 2 - Continue Ongoing Downtime Activity: None
Step 3 - Begin New Downtime Activity: None
Income Phase
Step 1 - Determine Building Income: None
Step 2 - Determine Organization Income: None
Step 3 - Determine Other Income:
Step 4 - Abandon Assets: None
Step 5 - Sell Assets: None
For Downtime I pose the question, weekly or daily. Id rather do weekly as its less bookkeeping by far and since im the one doing the bookkeeping.. :)
Upkeep Phase
Step 1 - Haven Stability Check
Step 2 - Pay Consumption:
Step 3 - Fill Vacant Magic Item Slots:
Step 4 - Modify Unrest: (enforcer may attempt to reduce)
Activity Phase
Step 1 - Assign Leadership: Heir can fill any vacant positions or move people between roles on the Council at the start of a month.
Step 2 - Claim & Abandon Hexes
Step 3 - Build Terrain improvements:
Step 4 - Create and Improve Settlements:
Step 5 - Create Army Units:
Step 6 - Issue Edicts: (and those that recived permission from Joel in the scrolls.)
Income Phase
Step 1 - Make Withdrawals from the Treasury: 1 K(BP) = 500g if you cash them in.
Step 2 - Make Deposits to the Treasury: 1 K(BP) = 1000G if you deposit Stuff.
Step 3 - Sell Expensive Items for BP:
Step 4 - Collect Taxes:
Event Phase
My favorite part.. Where the strange twists of fate come into play.
Verio will assign permission for each of the various steps. Some of you have permission to issue Edicts, some edicts can only be issued once you have built certain buildings.
You no longer have access to the Wizards tower as Klokk has claimed that to work in peace.
Weekly seems best for down time to much minutia bogs down a game.
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Each month is 4 weeks of 7 days. With an extra day each season. 440 day years. ( I didn't make it up..) 4 posts a month. with as many more as needed.
My thought that each Month would happen like this.
Week 1 -
Downtime Turn - Post the filled in sheet in a sticky.
Council Turn - Post whatever section is relevant to you
Ill resolve things.
Week 2 Downtime Turn - Post the filled in sheet in a sticky.
Ill resolve things.
Week 3 Downtime Turn - Post the filled in sheet in a sticky.
Ill resolve things.
Week 4 Downtime Turn - Post the filled in sheet in a sticky.
Ill resolve things.
Ill have the blanks in the above spoiler on the main page in a sticky for both with spoiler tags you just need to add [] to it and paste it.
Once verio gets back back and has a chance to designate which of you can does what portion of the Council Turn.
you might have to sorta walk me through it for a month or two, i learn better by doing.