IQ equivalence with Intelligence score


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Hello,

A while back, someone did this chart determining what IQ you'd have if your Intelligence was X. However, it only goes up to 18. Has anyone ever done a chart similar to this, but it went up to 20 Intelligence?

INT IQ
5 75
6 80
7 85
8 90
9 95
10 100
11 105
12 110
13 115
14 120
15 125
16 131
17 139
18+ 140+
This is approximate, and 18+ extends infinitely.


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To what purpose? When you look at an int score in a stat block you have an impression of how smart the creature is, when you see an IQ score ypu get a gut impression of how smart someone is. There is no objectice value in an IQ score, so just make up whatever scale you desire.

Silver Crusade

I don't know about that one, but an estimation I found a while back was that each point of intelligence is equal to 10 points of IQ,


I don't see what purpose this exercise is meant to achieve, but if you wanted to determine IQ based on your stat results, it would require a statistical analysis of your point generation system.

IQ is an artificial and relative metric which is designed so that an 'average' result is exactly 100 and all results will fall within a bell curve; the scale ranges from 0-200, but no one will ever actually be an extreme.

As such it's fairly easy to determine a correlation between your intelligence roll results, and your IQ; If your roll result is within one standard deviation of the mean, then your IQ is between 66 and 134; if it's outside of one standard deviation but inside of two, then it's either between 53 - 65, or between 135 and 147; if it is outside of the second deviation, and inside the third then it is either 51-52, or 148-149. If it's outside that, then it's fair to say that your 'IQ' is either around 50, or around 150. If you pull out a statistics book, it will have formulas for calculating the number exactly; assuming this is important to you.

Sovereign Court

Trekkie90909 wrote:

I don't see what purpose this exercise is meant to achieve, but if you wanted to determine IQ based on your stat results, it would require a statistical analysis of your point generation system.

IQ is an artificial and relative metric which is designed so that an 'average' result is exactly 100 and all results will fall within a bell curve; the scale ranges from 0-200, but no one will ever actually be an extreme.

As such it's fairly easy to determine a correlation between your intelligence roll results, and your IQ; If your roll result is within one standard deviation of the mean, then your IQ is between 66 and 134; if it's outside of one standard deviation but inside of two, then it's either between 53 - 65, or between 135 and 147; if it is outside of the second deviation, and inside the third then it is either 51-52, or 148-149. If it's outside that, then it's fair to say that your 'IQ' is either around 50, or around 150. If you pull out a statistics book, it will have formulas for calculating the number exactly; assuming this is important to you.

IQ has a standard deviation of 15 points. In your example it looks like you are using a standard deviation of 34? Basically its bunched up more toward the middle than you were estimating.

In the past I have used every +2 to an ability score as a standard deviation. With IQ having a standard deviation of 15 points, that means every +2 ability score (not modifier) is about 15 points. So approximately: 8=85, 10=100, 12=115, 14=130, 16=145, 18=160.
Sure its not the same chart, but a standard deviation per +1 modifier feels good to me.


Does any of this take into account the Bell curve?

Sovereign Court

I mentioned standard deviation in regards to IQ, so yes? However, I did not analyze the dice statistics. So if someone can figure out/find the standard deviation on 4d6 drop lowest, or 3d6 or however you are running characters in your game.

Like, "heroic" PCs being on a different scale(like 4d6 drop 1) than NPCs(like 3d6) kinda makes the bell curve odd when you mix them. Pretty sure the median on PCs is about 3 points higher than the median on NPCs in that case.


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I always thought IQ= intX10


@firebug; there are only 3 standard deviations, so you'd stop at 145 if you say they're all about 15 points. The rule for standard deviations is that the first contains 68% of the data, the next contains 95%, and the last 99.7%; I actually don't know how closely grouped people are around 100---I'm sure there's scientific literature out there on this subject if anyone's interested. I'd stick to NIH studies and the like (.gov, .edu) over anything from a .org, or .com.

Assuming it is a 15 point distribution for the first SD, then almost everyone on the planet would be between about 80 IQ and 120; which doesn't sound far off, but I'd go to the literature on this before you made your scale.

With regards to dice analytics....it's been too long since I've looked at that to remember numbers and formulae off the top of my head :P. Sorry. I knew the answer at one point. There should be sites with that information though, so maybe a quick google search is warranted.

It's worth mentioning that you should factor stat growth potential at level-up (4/8/12...), as well as from items and spells when you do your adjustments. Basically those bonuses will skew your bell curve to the right a bit; there are ways to work around that, but guessing how many people are of a various level in a setting, and how many have access to specialized magical/pharmacological equipment/spells would be a headache. probably better to just assume an insignificant percentage of the world is above level 3, or has access to such things and thus they don't factor into the distribution.


I think 10*Int seems like a more reasonable estimate of IQ.

Typically, below a 70 IQ would indicate mildly handicapped, and 50 or lower is moderately handicapped. Since a player likely won't go below 5 for any pointbuy, 50 seems like the reasonable limit for an adventurer.

Recalling that a 10 is the average for a human stat, and that adventurers are well above average, 130 at 13 also works out. At those levels, a person would likely do really well on standardized tests, but they won't necessarily be acing them with perfect scores. That's more likely at a 16. Stephen Hawking would have probably been somewhere around 16-17 INT. 180 IQ would be more or less the limits of real humans, with the highest recorded values being about a 200.

Intelligence beyond that requires non-mundane/human means anyway (headband, dragon, etc), so it seems roughly appropriate.


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Allow me to play devils advocate. IQ test has been accused of being influenced by societal norms for quite some time. As in people from different social-economic backgrounds tend to score differently because their expectations are different.

As such, IQ is actually a rather poor measure of IQ when comparing people with differing backgrounds. And as such, wouldn't Charisma figure into IQ? As for that matter, Wisdom should figure in as well.

IQ is a single measuring stick. Pathfinder breaks what the IQ test is suppose to cover into 3 different stats. All 3 of those stats contribute to what makes IQ.


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I second Meirril, IQ isn't necessarily an accurate measure of intelligence. You'd have the same problem translating IQ into layman's terms as you would have translating INT.

As for your question, I have not but the set seems additive until 14 where it becomes arithmetic, likely due to the mentioned bell curve. The sequence goes 5, 6, 8, with 11 being next? This page might help though they offer different equations for solving for higher values. If the sequence is 5, 6, 8, 11, 15, 20, then an INT of 20 would be an IQ of 185.


Meirril wrote:

Allow me to play devils advocate. IQ test has been accused of being influenced by societal norms for quite some time. As in people from different social-economic backgrounds tend to score differently because their expectations are different.

As such, IQ is actually a rather poor measure of IQ when comparing people with differing backgrounds. And as such, wouldn't Charisma figure into IQ? As for that matter, Wisdom should figure in as well.

IQ is a single measuring stick. Pathfinder breaks what the IQ test is suppose to cover into 3 different stats. All 3 of those stats contribute to what makes IQ.

I understand the thought, but strongly disagree.

IQ tests measure what they measure. They aren’t necessarily a strong indicator of one’s mental aptitude in general, but they ARE indicative of pattern recognition, knowledge gained/retention, etc. Those are straight up the kinds of things “intelligence” in Pathfinder would correspond to. The biggest issue is that people have a problem with the word “intelligence” being used to cover those types of abilities only, because it makes things like “wisdom” sound less prestigious. There have been arguments about emotional intelligence or determination in the face of adversity, but those are more relevant to wisdom and charisma. If anything, I’d say that actual IQ, which is a term that reflects a real and objective metric, even if people don’t care for the connotations of that term or metric, matches up more closely to Pathfinder intelligence than it does to the real-world usage. Not to jump on anyone’s ideas, but if we assume the OP already knew what he was asking about, then trying to bring in a broader discussion about the merits of IQ tests and their value isn’t really relevant.


Virid Dillest wrote:

I understand the thought, but strongly disagree.

IQ tests measure what they measure. They aren’t necessarily a strong indicator of one’s mental aptitude in general, but they ARE indicative of pattern recognition, knowledge gained/retention, etc. Those are straight up the kinds of things “intelligence” in Pathfinder would correspond to. The biggest issue is that people have a problem with the word “intelligence” being used to cover those types of abilities only, because it makes things like “wisdom” sound less prestigious. There have been arguments about emotional intelligence or determination in the face of adversity, but those are more relevant to wisdom and charisma. If anything, I’d say that actual IQ, which is a term that reflects a real and objective metric, even if people don’t care for the connotations of that term or metric, matches up more closely to Pathfinder intelligence than it does to the real-world usage. Not to jump on anyone’s ideas, but if we assume the OP already knew what he was asking about, then trying to bring in a broader discussion about the merits of IQ tests and their value isn’t really relevant.

You can strongly disagree all you want however bringing in the validity of IQ tests is relevant as OP, even if he thinks is right, may be using the wrong measuring stick. If OP wanted to convert the unit of weight in pathfinder to real world weight (PF uses pounds anyways), we wouldn't recommend using yard sticks even though you could figure that X yard sticks could support Y weight. All of it is besides the point as the question was mathematical while measuring intelligence is philosophical, not empirical. It is fair to assume that PFs INT stat is equal to IQ but that's where Meirril's argument comes into play. Why measure Intelligence as WIS + INT instead of just INT. Back to philosophy, is intelligence not general mental aptitude? IF IQ and INT are equal then my argument of using IQ at all stands (IQ = INT*10 is just making INT more complicated).

When you tell your players that the enemy has wizard has 16 int, they ask "how smart is that?" so you tell them, "think IQ of 160" and most players will ask, "how smart is that?" so you then tell them, "think Stephen Hawking." The whole situation looks like adding extra steps to the process and one could technically ask how smart is Stephen Hawking smart until you create your own metaphysic based on intelligence. The whole IQ comparison could be valid for looking up real world comparisons like in the example of Hawking. The unexamined measuring stick is not worth using.


I have played in several groups were iq = int x 10 no idea if its an official rule but that's the way we played it.


doomman47 wrote:
I have played in several groups were iq = int x 10 no idea if its an official rule but that's the way we played it.

It’s just the easiest way to do it, and is reasonably close to the answer you’d get if you did a lot of work.


I always envisioned an IQ of 8 was forrest gump, whereas an 18 was albert einstein


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ogmius wrote:
I always envisioned an IQ of 8 was forrest gump, whereas an 18 was albert einstein

It’s odd to me that people think of something as high as an 8 as being that low. Consider that the 8 is as far from average as the 13.


ogmius wrote:
I always envisioned an IQ of 8 was forrest gump, whereas an 18 was albert einstein

Forest gump is probably in the 5-7 area, and Einstein is probably only a 15-16.


I always thought that IQ was INT times 10, but I suddenly realised that doesn't work on animals. There are certainly animals that are smarter than others (dolphins and pigs are supposed to be very intelligent), but all animals have an INT score of 1 or 2. That might just be a case of overgeneralisation, but it does show that it's not a perfect system. I'd still go with INTx10, until you get above a modifier of 2, maybe 3.


So, nobody here has created a chart that takes into account the Bell curve of probability with 100 being average. Normal humans would get 3d6, not 4d6, btw.


The bell curve cant be determined for humans because we don’t know what percentage put their floating ability bonus in intelligence.


For random human NPCs, I figure 1/6th put their bonus point into Int. NPCs don't get a choice in the matter (although the GM does).

Piccolo wrote:
So, nobody here has created a chart that takes into account the Bell curve of probability with 100 being average. Normal humans would get 3d6, not 4d6, btw.

Somebody needs to work on that.


Sorry for replying to my own post, but I'm not seeing the edit button/flag.

Link: http://simantics.blogspot.com/2011/01/d-and-iq.html

Quote:

INT IQ

3 57
4 66
5 72
6 78
7 83
8 88
9 93
10 98
11 102
12 107
13 112
14 117
15 122
16 128
17 134
18 143

Link: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/4903/how-clever-is-a-base-intellige nce-of-10-in-dd-4e

These do not take age boosts or level boosts into accounts. PCs either point buy or use a high dice-rolling so would have, on average, higher Int (average is about 13, apparently, or ~112).


Kimera757 wrote:

Sorry for replying to my own post, but I'm not seeing the edit button/flag.

Link: http://simantics.blogspot.com/2011/01/d-and-iq.html

Quote:

INT IQ

3 57
4 66
5 72
6 78
7 83
8 88
9 93
10 98
11 102
12 107
13 112
14 117
15 122
16 128
17 134
18 143

Link: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/4903/how-clever-is-a-base-intellige nce-of-10-in-dd-4e

These do not take age boosts or level boosts into accounts. PCs either point buy or use a high dice-rolling so would have, on average, higher Int (average is about 13, apparently, or ~112).

You forget that the Pathfinder game now has a max result of 20, not 18.


Piccolo wrote:
Kimera757 wrote:

Sorry for replying to my own post, but I'm not seeing the edit button/flag.

Link: http://simantics.blogspot.com/2011/01/d-and-iq.html

Quote:

INT IQ

3 57
4 66
5 72
6 78
7 83
8 88
9 93
10 98
11 102
12 107
13 112
14 117
15 122
16 128
17 134
18 143

Link: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/4903/how-clever-is-a-base-intellige nce-of-10-in-dd-4e

These do not take age boosts or level boosts into accounts. PCs either point buy or use a high dice-rolling so would have, on average, higher Int (average is about 13, apparently, or ~112).

You forget that the Pathfinder game now has a max result of 20, not 18.

Only 5e has a cap of 20 in a stat.


doomman47 wrote:


You forget that the Pathfinder game now has a max result of 20, not 18.

Only 5e has a cap of 20 in a stat.

Nope. Humans range from 3-20 in Pathfinder, since you can add your floating +2 to Intelligence.


Piccolo wrote:
doomman47 wrote:
Piccolo wrote:

You forget that the Pathfinder game now has a max result of 20, not 18.

Only 5e has a cap of 20 in a stat.
Nope. Humans range from 3-20 in Pathfinder, since you can add your floating +2 to Intelligence.

Pretty sure my friends human wizard has a 26 or 28 int soooooo.


20 is just the level 1 cap. A level 4 expert wouldn’t be too unusual.


doomman47 wrote:
Pretty sure my friends human wizard has a 26 or 28 int soooooo.

Pretty sure your human wizard is wearing a Headband of Intellect sooooo. Magic is not possible in the real world, you DID know that, right?


Piccolo wrote:
Magic is not possible in the real world, you DID know that, right?

Have you even seen Criss Angel?


Piccolo wrote:
doomman47 wrote:
Pretty sure my friends human wizard has a 26 or 28 int soooooo.
Pretty sure your human wizard is wearing a Headband of Intellect sooooo. Magic is not possible in the real world, you DID know that, right?

Still means the cap isn't 20, and so what if they are wearing a +4 headband doesn't change the fact that they have another 2-4 non magical int bonus.


doomman47 wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
doomman47 wrote:
Pretty sure my friends human wizard has a 26 or 28 int soooooo.
Pretty sure your human wizard is wearing a Headband of Intellect sooooo. Magic is not possible in the real world, you DID know that, right?
Still means the cap isn't 20, and so what if they are wearing a +4 headband doesn't change the fact that they have another 2-4 non magical int bonus.

Uhm, once again, you've missed a few things. One, Headbands of Intellect aren't possible for real world, therefore nobody can get that high. Two, in PF you get a +1 to one attribute for every 4 levels, but there's also the problem of steady old age reducing attributes. In the real world, when you get too old you start having problems with both mind and body.

The point of all of this is, I just wanted a simple Intelligence chart from 1-20, taking into account the Bell Curve and 100 equals average intelligence. Since almost all people don't get to 20th level, the +5 you get to whatever attribute doesn't really come into play. I suppose you could go from 1-25, but statistically the upper levels would be pretty infinitesimal.


The second link goes to Int 24. A few sites rate Int 23 as the theoretical maximum IQ.


Kimera757 wrote:
The second link goes to Int 24. A few sites rate Int 23 as the theoretical maximum IQ.

I checked out the link. First off, it's not possible for a human being to start off lower than a 3 Intelligence in the game.

Second, the max possible Intelligence in the game is not 24, without magical intervention. It's actually 25, assuming you are 20th level, you rolled an 18 Int and added your floating +2 to Intelligence.

Third, I am not sure 4e stats are equivalent to PF stats.


Piccolo wrote:
Kimera757 wrote:
The second link goes to Int 24. A few sites rate Int 23 as the theoretical maximum IQ.

I checked out the link. First off, it's not possible for a human being to start off lower than a 3 Intelligence in the game.

Second, the max possible Intelligence in the game is not 24, without magical intervention. It's actually 25, assuming you are 20th level, you rolled an 18 Int and added your floating +2 to Intelligence.

Third, I am not sure 4e stats are equivalent to PF stats.

For the third, they are exactly equivalent. 4e has the same floating +2 stat bonus for humans that Pathfinder does as well.


Kimera757 wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
Kimera757 wrote:
The second link goes to Int 24. A few sites rate Int 23 as the theoretical maximum IQ.

I checked out the link. First off, it's not possible for a human being to start off lower than a 3 Intelligence in the game.

Second, the max possible Intelligence in the game is not 24, without magical intervention. It's actually 25, assuming you are 20th level, you rolled an 18 Int and added your floating +2 to Intelligence.

Third, I am not sure 4e stats are equivalent to PF stats.

For the third, they are exactly equivalent. 4e has the same floating +2 stat bonus for humans that Pathfinder does as well.

Does it also grant a +1 to any one attribute every 5 levels?

Dark Archive

Piccolo wrote:
Kimera757 wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
Kimera757 wrote:
The second link goes to Int 24. A few sites rate Int 23 as the theoretical maximum IQ.

I checked out the link. First off, it's not possible for a human being to start off lower than a 3 Intelligence in the game.

Second, the max possible Intelligence in the game is not 24, without magical intervention. It's actually 25, assuming you are 20th level, you rolled an 18 Int and added your floating +2 to Intelligence.

Third, I am not sure 4e stats are equivalent to PF stats.

For the third, they are exactly equivalent. 4e has the same floating +2 stat bonus for humans that Pathfinder does as well.
Does it also grant a +1 to any one attribute every 5 levels?

isn't it +1 every 4 levels in PF. Not every 5


Oops. My lack of sleep was showing.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

10 x Int really doesn't work at all. A person with an IQ of 30 is so lacking in intelligence that he cannot function at all without supervision -- and an intelligence score of 3 for a human would be possible if you are rolling ability scores. At the other extreme, a person with an IQ of 140 is in the top 2% of the population, so that score has to map to at least 17, not to 14.

An adjustment of +/- 5 IQ points for each point of intelligence above or below 10 (which would correspond to an average IQ of 100) would be far more reasonable.


Piccolo wrote:
Kimera757 wrote:
Piccolo wrote:
Kimera757 wrote:
The second link goes to Int 24. A few sites rate Int 23 as the theoretical maximum IQ.

I checked out the link. First off, it's not possible for a human being to start off lower than a 3 Intelligence in the game.

Second, the max possible Intelligence in the game is not 24, without magical intervention. It's actually 25, assuming you are 20th level, you rolled an 18 Int and added your floating +2 to Intelligence.

Third, I am not sure 4e stats are equivalent to PF stats.

For the third, they are exactly equivalent. 4e has the same floating +2 stat bonus for humans that Pathfinder does as well.
Does it also grant a +1 to any one attribute every 5 levels?

Yes, but the ratio is a bit different. It's at level 4, 8, 14, 18, etc, so slower, but epic dynasties boost ability scores, and so do at least some paragon paths. (Paragon paths are basically archetypes. It's mandatory to take one, but you have a lot of choice in which one you take. They're not all class-based.)


Uhm, it isn't mandatory to take an archetype in PF.


Piccolo wrote:
Uhm, it isn't mandatory to take an archetype in PF.

He's talking about 4e


Sigh. I was basically saying that these paragon paths in 4e aren't the equivalents of PF archetypes as Kimera757 says.

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