
Jason S |
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Alternate Solutions to Resonance
From what I can tell, these are the problems resonance is trying to fix:
1) Body slots.
2) Limit magic items on a PC.
3) Limit the use of consumables.
4) Limit the amount of healing, especially wands of Cure Light Wounds/Heal.
I’ll address each problem and if it fixes it.
1) Body slots.
This problem isn’t really fixed adequately. It’s still ridiculous wearing 2-3 hats or more than one coat or robe. I think I read that some PF2 items also have limits on the body slot?
If we want to relax the rule that multiple items can overlap on a body slot, we should just relax the rules, and have exceptions or limits by body slot or item. It’s a much easier and more intuitive solution.
2) Limit magic items on a PC.
Usually cost and body slots limits the amount of magic items on a PC.
Honestly, if we’re getting 1 resonance per level, I’ve never gone beyond this limit in PF1. Limiting the amount of times we can use these items is lame and has never been a problem in PF1, you’re going to need to make lots of janky and non-intuitive rules around it, it’s going to be a mess. The Bag of holding is an example of this awful gaming mechanic.
I’ve noticed that you don’t have Boots of Speed as an item, this is an example of an item that doesn’t work well with Resonance.
To use our items in the current version of PF2, we’re just going to upgrade the few items we have to the maximum allowable limit, so we can use a few charges. How is this better than PF1? Does it really matter if a PC is wearing lots of low grade magic items or a few powerful magic items? Does this make the game better?
3) Limit the use of consumables.
In years of gaming, I’ve never noticed a high amount of consumable use. It’s often too expensive to do, especially when it comes to potions.
If you want to limit potion use, just say you can only consume 1 potion every minute. Or every 10 minutes. Or have no limit, in 10 years I’ve yet to see a single PC in PF1 consume mass amounts of potions, it’s for rare emergency use only.
Level 1 wand use is no longer a problem in PF2, not only is it expensive, many low-level spells are nerfed so badly (mage armor) or their design has been changed (shield) that they are no longer worth using.
I thought I read that weapons ignore resonance, which isn’t consistent with how everything else works, but I can’t find that rule.
Staves are great in PF2, but they can be controlled by saying you can only be invested in one staff per day. Being invested would have nothing to do with resonance, just a property of staff use.
In conclusion, I think we can limit consumable use in other ways, although I’d be interested in what specific problem you’re trying to solve.
4) Limit the amount of healing
Yes, it certainly does solve this problem, wands of Heal have increased in price dramatically and they are no longer spammable. Unfortunately, it creates a problem where healing is so scarce that you need a dedicated healer in the party, which is a playstyle not everyone wants to adopt again, myself included.
If you want to fix the problem we have with healing, why don’t you use the burn mechanic that kineticists use when healing someone with Kinetic Healer? Instead of calling the mechanic “burn”, you can call it Exhaustion damage, since Exhaustion is no longer a condition used in PF2.
For those of you who don’t know, burn in PF1 did an equivalent amount of unhealable non-lethal damage equal to the number of points of burn times your level.
For example, if you were level 5 and received a healing spell, you’d get 1 point of burn, which means you receive 5 points of non-lethal damage that can only be removed by rest. If you get healed again, you now have 10 cumulative points of non-lethal damage. That’s a huge deterrent to heal spamming! I’ve been playing with this playstyle for months now because my group’s healer is a kineticist and it’s a very balanced and fair mechanic.
With a touch, you can heal a willing living creature ... If you do so, the recipient takes 1 point of nonlethal damage per Hit Die he possesses, as usual for burn; This damage can’t be healed by any means until the recipient takes a full night’s rest.
The main purpose of this post was to show that we can easily do without resonance. There are problems with resonance which I’ve had since doing the level 4-5 playtest which others will experience as well, but I don’t want to get into that now.
In conclusion, I’m proposing that we don’t use resonance. There are other solutions to the problems you’re trying to solve, more elegant solutions. I know this is a big change, but I hope it’s one worth considering.

Snickersnax |
Level 1 wand use is no longer a problem in PF2, not only is it expensive, many low-level spells are nerfed so badly (mage armor) or their design has been changed (shield) that they are no longer worth using.
I just made a group of 4th level characters following the character generation rules including starting magic items. The magic item choices were for level 2 items were clearly in favor of level 1 wands. I picked up 4 wands for my wizard, he'll be not only spamming them (as much as resonance allows), but it has given him a huge repertoire of spells to use ( he now has access to 8 1st level spells with 4 spell slots and 4 resonance)
Wands are definitely worth using!
As far as healing goes, my experience with gameplay is that healing is just about right. Although Medicine could use some tuning.
That said I would like to see Resonance simplified. It seems easily merged into Spell Points. Both seem to be modelling the same idea (innate capacity to engage with magic), there is no reason to have both

Jason S |
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Wands are definitely worth using!
Let me clarify. Using level 1 wands for non-casters using Trick Magic Device.
For instance now a monk (or any martial) isn't going to gain much benefit from using a level 1 wand of Mage Armor or Shield.
And yes your wizard should gain benefit from a wand. But it's going to cost them. A level 1 wand is 27 gold. Bracers of Armor 1 cost 35 gold, almost the same amount. You won't be able to afford everything and you definitely won't be able to spam that wand unless you're in a Monte Hall campaign.
And that's my point. Resonance isn't needed to control your wand usage, it's already controlled because of the fact you won't be able to afford it. And if your ability to be healed runs out, it won't matter either.

Snickersnax |
Snickersnax wrote:Wands are definitely worth using!And yes your wizard should gain benefit from a wand. But it's going to cost them. A level 1 wand is 27 gold. Bracers of Armor 1 cost 35 gold, almost the same amount. You won't be able to afford everything and you definitely won't be able to spam that wand unless you're in a Monte Hall campaign.
And that's my point. Resonance isn't needed to control your wand usage, it's already controlled because of the fact you won't be able to afford it. And if your ability to be healed runs out, it won't matter either.
Well since I generated a fresh level 4 character, I just got magic items based on level following the character generation rules. The items didn't cost anything, and wands were a very attractive pick from the list.
I don't really have a problem with wands being expensive. I think they should be. I think their price is also consistent with getting spells cast by NPCs.

Midnightoker |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |

I posted this in another thread, but I figured compiling all the potential alternatives to resonance in one place is a good idea:
I think Proficiency and Charisma alone can replace the entirety of Resonance as a system, with (IMO) a few added benefits.
Have the tier of Proficiency in a Magic Weapon dictate the level of ability (where the Proficiency can depend on that specific weapon, I.E. Dagger could use Stealth as Proficiency or Blades). That way you can accomplish the balancing issue of Fighters not getting "magic items" too quickly like your example, but still having their proficiency factored in to it's power level. It also allows for Proficiency substitutions to classes that don't get Proficiency level in a particular item.
The only issue I see with this is the quality of the item itself and determining gold value, but really that can go hand in hand with this by simply saying the Quality of the item dictates what levels you can attain (so a Expert Quality wand will never allow you to use the Master tier effect).
Healing Wand
Requires: Trained in Divine Casting
You channel positive energy to heal the living or damage the undead. You restore Hit Points equal to 1d8 , or deal that amount of positive damage to an undead target.
Trained in Divine Casting: 1d8/3 + Cha times per day
Expert in Divine Casting: 2d8 + level/4 + Cha times per day
Master in Divine Casting: 4d8 + level/ 5 + Cha times per day
Legendary in Divine Casting: 6d8 + level/ 6 + Cha times per day
Cloak of Elvenkind
[b]Requires: None
You can cast Ghost Sound 1 + Cha times per day as an Arcane Cantrip
You gain a +1 bonus to Stealth checks
[b]Trained in Stealth: You can use Invisibility for 1 minute/1 + Cha times per day
Expert in Stealth: You can use Invisibility for 2 minutes/1 + Cha times per day and your bonus to Stealth checks increases to +2
Master in Stealth: When using Invisibility power of this item Hostile Actions do not end the effect and your bonus to Stealth checks increases to +3
Legendary in Stealth: You can use Invisibility for 10 minutes/1 + Cha times per day and your bonus to Stealth checks increases to +4
Now the above does a few things.
1. It now removes resonance entirely, but still preserves the "innate" powers it is supposed to represent with Charisma being the number of casts, and the Proficiency level defining the potency
2. It consolidates everything you need to use the item into ONE place. All the rules for use are right there (with the exception of looking up the spells they offer in the case of the Cloak)
3. Items now increase as the player increases. No need to grab a new Cloak or Wand, the one you have scales with your player. If you like an item you are using, just keep it and advance the respective Proficiency to the level needed to advance it. All of the advancement of the item is tied to the Player now.
4. It adds another layer to the Proficiency system, which to me should become the focus of the new system. Proficiency is everywhere and every single ability/action/skill gets a level of Proficiency.
5. The above allows for a standardized "emulation" format, where you can say things like "For the purposes of using magic items dependent on "X", you are considered an Expert".

Lyee |
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First response I had to healing limited by resonance:
'Okay, so we hire out a few acoyltes from the local temple to join us on the caravan and camp in secure locations we can come back to to heal'.
Hey, look, it's basically CLW wands again, but with more walking. At high levels, the cost of this plan was still very low compared to income, and healing was again a non-issue.
The new shorter adventuring day is horrible to play and wrecks verisimiltude. I had much better luck going the other way and making hp-recovery more accessible than 1E, as outlined here. So far these rules are testing fantastically.

Mathmuse |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |

I think that resonance had two other intended purposes:
5) Serve as an alchemist's resource to limit quick alchemy.
Though spell points would have worked fine, giving an alchemist spell points would make their bombs and elixirs seem like spells.
6) Simplify the charges and uses per day in magic items.
The current version of resonance fails so terribly at this goal that reverting to charges and uses per day would be simpler.

Lyee |

Blank link
How strange, it had 'paizo.com/threads/' twice at the start of the link, here's a fixed one: Fixed Link

Midnightoker |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |

5) Serve as an alchemist's resource to limit quick alchemy.
Though spell points would have worked fine, giving an alchemist spell points would make their bombs and elixirs seem like spells.
Does the Alchemist really need to be limited in that way?
You could simply limit them in another way, possibly only granting certain amounts of materials for free with Quick Alchemy.
As of right now all it does is make me not want to play the Alchemist, which would be the antithesis of that entire premise.

WatersLethe |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |

My suggestion was to remove resonance and give Alchemists a spell point pool look-alike, and go back to body slots (which I prefer), let gold and market availability limit consumables, and bring back Use Magic Device to milk more uses out of use/day items, and making it a built in skill like perception.
The only two compelling arguments for Resonance I could see were:
1. Gives a use for Charisma outside of class features for tables who don't properly use NPC interaction, or combat intimidation.
2. Allows the GM to go balls to the wall handing out loot without worrying about the players becoming too OP for their level.
The first point is solved by making Use Magic Device a universal skill that lets you do more with the magic items you have. The second point is not addressed, but at least lets players actually enjoy getting lots of loot rather than throwing non-essentials onto the heap with the others.

Jason S |
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Does the Alchemist really need to be limited in that way?
Yeah, alchemy shouldn't be tied to resonance, alchemists should get alchemy points.
Alchemists got LEVEL + INT bombs per day in PF1 and ran out a lot. In PF2 they get maybe 2 per day (assuming alchemists like magic gear as well). In PF2 combats can go a LOT longer, which is a huge problem for alchemists. Alchemists have serious issues. But that's another thread.

Jason S |

How strange, it had 'paizo.com/threads/' twice at the start of the link, here's a fixed one: Fixed Link
I don't think this is a fight you're going to win. Paizo wants to eliminate two things:
1) Clearing out a dungeon or location with minimal rest in 20 minutes or less. They want to SLOW everything down. Your proposal supports that.2) The unlimited adventuring day. Your proposal is contrary to that goal.
I'm not sure I want unlimited healing every day either. It's a little bit too 'World of Warcraft' for me and not realistic enough. I however would like too see better out of combat healing (without feats) using the Medicine skill though.

Jason S |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Have the tier of Proficiency in a Magic Weapon dictate the level of ability ... That way you can accomplish the balancing issue of Fighters not getting "magic items" too quickly like your example, but still having their proficiency factored in to it's power level.
Resonance doesn't apply to weapons, so this rule would be yet another limit. I... really don't like limits.
"You can't use that level 20 ring Frodo, you're only level 1".Healing Wand
They want us to pay more for high level wands and not get spell heightened automatically.
Cloak of Elvenkind
Trained in Stealth: You can use Invisibility for 1 minute/1 + Cha times per day
Expert in Stealth: You can use Invisibility for 2 minutes/1 + Cha times per day
Now this is an idea worth thinking about. Tying the number of times you can use an item a day to a skill proficiency and CHR.
The game probably need more skill increases than we currently have.

Mathmuse |
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My suggestion was to remove resonance and give Alchemists a spell point pool look-alike, and go back to body slots (which I prefer), let gold and market availability limit consumables, and bring back Use Magic Device to milk more uses out of use/day items, and making it a built in skill like perception.
The only two compelling arguments for Resonance I could see were:
1. Gives a use for Charisma outside of class features for tables who don't properly use NPC interaction, or combat intimidation.
2. Allows the GM to go balls to the wall handing out loot without worrying about the players becoming too OP for their level.
The first point is solved by making Use Magic Device a universal skill that lets you do more with the magic items you have. The second point is not addressed, but at least lets players actually enjoy getting lots of loot rather than throwing non-essentials onto the heap with the others.
WatersLethe's post reminded me of a 7th and 8th reason.
7) Give a reason why characters want more Charisma besides social skills and class features.
Social skills are awkward because unlike most skills a failed roll can backfire and usually only one party member needs to make the roll. Likewise, some classes have important features that use Charisma and other classes have none. Hence, Charisma in Pathfinder 1st Edition is an all-or-nothing stat with no reason to have a CHA 10 or 12. Resonance is a feature for all classes where a little bit more Charisma helps. This goal was a success.
8) Add a personal touch to magic items.
The flavor of magic items in Pathfinder 1st Edition is flatly economic: the character buys a magic item and it works. My wife prefers characters who craft their own magic items because that investment makes the items seem personal. Other characters view their skill in Use Magic Device as their personal connection to a wand they activate. The investment of resonance, though smaller than the investment of crafting, adds a similar connection. I don't think that this was a goal of the Paizo designers, but some people like resonance due to this reason.

Almarane |

If Resonance is still a thing after the official release, here's how I intend to houserule it :
1) Amount
Your number of Resonance Points is equal to your level (or maybe less, it needs to be tested out).
You no longer can overspend Resonance Points.
2) Magic items with body slots or enhancing abilities, or items supposed to have a limit of use per day
It covers armors, capes, Aeon stones, pendants, etc etc... but not utilitary items such as trinkets, bags of holding, wands, staves, etc etc...
You will still need to invest 1 Resonance Point into them.
Remove all "X/day" uses and make them unlimited as long as you have Resonance Points. Every "X/day" uses are replaced by spending 1 Resonance Points (or 2 if the effect is particularly big and was previously limited to 1/day, such as the Cyclop's helmet)
3) Wands and Staves
Wands can only hold one spell each, limited to 3rd or 4th level spells.
Staves can hold multiple spells each (I'm not sure about how many different spells per staff).
You spend one Resonance Point to cast the spell in the wand or one of the spells in the staff.
Wands and Staves no longer have charges, and thus wands no longer break when you deplete them.
4) Consumables such as potions and trinkets
You no longer need to use Resonance Points to activate them. They are consumed upon use but they can't "fail".
5) Magic weapons
You don't need to invest them with Resonance Points.
Every on-hit effects (such as the Vorpal Blade OHKO), activated effects that add elemental damage dices (as turning on a Flaming sword) and passive effects (like having your Heal spells automatically heightened while you wield your weapon) do not cost Resonance Points.
Activated effects other than adding elemental damage dices (like switching on a blade that has the power to create light, or casting a spell thanks to your sword like in mythic rules) cost 1 Resonance Point at each activation.
5) Alchemists' Spell Points
Alchemists will use Spell Points instead of Resonance, based on their level + Int (the same amount that their Resonance under the current rules)

Midnightoker |

Resonance doesn't apply to weapons, so this rule would be yet another limit. I... really don't like limits.
"You can't use that level 20 ring Frodo, you're only level 1".
Well, in this case it isn't a matter of "use" but utilize to full potential based on innate Proficiency.
They want us to pay more for high level wands and not get spell heightened automatically.
You must have missed the part where I state the quality of the item dictates what options are available.
I.E. the proficiency tiers unlocking progressively better benefits only goes to the tier of the weapon quality. So an Expert Quality Wand only goes to the Expert Quality "Proficiency" tier, and if you want to utilize the Master/Legendary Proficiency tiers you'd need that quality of wand.
Now this is an idea worth thinking about. Tying the number of times you can use an item a day to a skill proficiency and CHR.The game probably need more skill increases than we currently have.
I think some form of dependent Skill increase would work, where potentially Master/Legendary cost more than Trained/Expert. Probably do it the same as raising an 18 ability score (you get two increases, Master or Legendary tiers cost two increases to achieve).
I think your first points against the suggestion don't take into account the Proficiency unlocking and Cha ties that keep them in check I bring up later. To me, this is pivotal to it working.
It might require some fine tuning, but I think it's a much simpler approach to the concepts they were going for with Resonance while adding more gravitas to Proficiency system in general (which to me, along with the action economy, is supposed to be the "meat" of this system).

Snickersnax |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Up until my play test session today, I was beginning to like the concept of resonance.
And then it just began to piss me off.
I hated that I felt like I was paying three times to use a magic item: Once to invest the item, another resonance on activation and then I had to remember to tick off a charge as well.
I used my invested bracers of missile deflection and it cost me a point of resonance to activate and then it was done for 10 minutes... 3 costs :(
Double and triple Taxing magic item use FEELS AWFUL.
If Resonance or something similar is going to be kept can we make it simpler?
Here are my suggestions:
1) Eliminate charges. Just use resonance. Having to track two different depleting resources is cumbersome.
2) Don't require investiture on items that don't have permanent effects and have an item activation, just use a resonance cost when it is activated.
3) Require investiture for non-charged magic items with permanent effects including weapons and armor. The word invest means "to clothe". Having armor get a pass on being invested is bad use of language.
4) Make investing an item a single action instead of a minute.
5) Merge spell points and resonance: spell points and resonance are too similar: they are both a resource that limits interaction with magic There is no reason to be tracking two sets of numbers here.
Merging spell points and resonance into a single pool of: (4+ charisma modifier + bonuses determined by feats) or
(3+ charisma modifier + level) or whatever would:
a) simplify the limitation on spell point magic and magic items
b) allow low level characters (even those with low charisma) to be able to use magic items.
c) Provide a a potentially elegant boost to sorcerers who could then have access to this pool for additional spell casting!

Patapoufcoin |
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Cloak of Elvenkind
[b]Requires: NoneYou can cast Ghost Sound 1 + Cha times per day as an Arcane Cantrip
You gain a +1 bonus to Stealth checks[b]Trained in Stealth: You can use Invisibility for 1 minute/1 + Cha times per day
Expert in Stealth: You can use Invisibility for 2 minutes/1 + Cha times per day and your bonus to Stealth checks increases to +2
Master in Stealth: When using Invisibility power of this item Hostile Actions do[/b][/b]...
It's a great idea. I think this perfectly fits the future of the game if paizo wants to keep both his old players and conquer new ones. Simple and elegant! But it will take more to ensure the support of all fans ......

Draco18s |

Doesn't look like this was addressed:
I thought I read that weapons ignore resonance, which isn’t consistent with how everything else works, but I can’t find that rule.
Its on p377:
Investing Magic Items
Most magic items that are worn, as well as some held
items, must be invested with Resonance Points during the
Invest Item activity in order to gain their benefits. These
items have the invested trait. Investing an item costs 1
Resonance Point, which you spend when you complete the
Invest Item activity.
Many invested items have constant abilities that function
all the time or that always trigger when you use the item.
These fail to function if the item is not invested by you.
Magic weapons lack the `Invested` trait while armor has it:
MAGIC ARMOR ITEM 3+
Abjuration
Invested
MagicalMAGIC WEAPON ITEM 4+
Evocation
Magical

Jason S |

I think I'm going to play with some house rules with one group. They lack any sort of healing at all and are in dire straits without out-of-combat healing. (I will not report on them since it's not play test rules).
Out of combat healing per 10 minutes, which depends on your Medicine skill:
Untrained: 1d4
Trained: 1d8 + Wis mod
Expert: 2d8 + Wis mod
Master: 3d8 + Wis mod
Legendary: 4d8 + Wis mod
One medic can attend 2 patients every 10 minutes.
Every time they are healed, they gain burn, which means they take their level in non-lethal damage that can only be healed through 6 hours of rest. I'm going to call these exhaustion points. Example if you are level 3 and get healed, you take 3 exhaustion points.
This will give them good out-of-combat healing, limit their adventure day, and make high level healing much more desirable.

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I think Resonance would work fine if:
- Consumables didn't use resonance. You spent your gold, and the item is used up. Feels unfair to spend personal resources or gamble on a check to see if the item works if overspent.
- Wands either removed charges as a mechanic entirely, or kept charges but only cost one resonance to imbue all daily charges. Rather than forcing players to keep track of both resonance and charges with each use. Also if a spell is harmless the recipient can choose to accept the Resonance cost rather than always costing the wand user.
- Bags of Holding aren't 1 resonance per "opening", but again to imbue so you can access it all day.

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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:Bags of Holding have been errata'd in Update 1.1. They no longer cost 1 resonance per opening :)
- Bags of Holding aren't 1 resonance per "opening", but again to imbue so you can access it all day.
I missed that. Fabulous. One down, three to go!

Jason S |

That feels like it scales really badly. My level 2 trained character with 14 Wis can heal his ally for 1d8+2, which is really 1d8 because burn. If those two continue to level 9 without a focus in medicine, suddenly I'm healing for more like 1d8-7 because he's getting so much burn?
PF1 kineticist at level 9 would heal 5d6+16 damage (33), empowered (49) and the target would take 9 non-lethal. So it scales well with Kinetic Heal and Heal.
My proposal:
Untrained: 1d8 = 4 plus 9 non-lethal damage.
Master: 3d8 + Wis mod = 16 plus 9 non-lethal damage.
You're right, it scales horribly if someone doesn't advance their medicine skill.
I might keep it anyway.
The benefit being that all of the non-lethal damage goes away after rest whereas natural healing is slow. So the patient takes some herbs and medicine and passes out for the night, comes back healed and renewed in the morning. It even creates an interesting decision to make, do I pass out for the night or am I satisfied with healing through rest only?
I have three playtest groups so I'll see how this plays out compared to resonance.

Mathmuse |
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I have been thinking about the goals of resonance as listed above, and decided that we need to articulate a few design principles for the mechanic. Let me propose the one I am most passionate about:
Design Principle 1) No double bookkeeping.
Pathfinder 2nd Edition is about simplifying rules for easier play. Resonance could have served that goal, but the current version doesn't. Let's get serious about simplification. Whenever resonance is spent, no other resource is consumed. Ever.
This simplifies bookkeeping. I used my magic boots, I spent one resonance, I still have resonance so I can use my magic boots again. Clear and simple. I put one my magic armor and donning it cost resonance, so it works as long as I wear it. Also clear and simple. The alchemist used Quick Alchemy, costing one resonance, to make a potion and drinking the potion does not require paying resonance again. Hey, that is already the rule.
This principle also prevents the double taxation that Snickersnax and many others complained about.
Principles have consequences, so let me point out some of them.
Consequence 1.1) Potions can't cost resonance to consume.
Using up a consumable means marking off that item on my character sheet. That is bookkeeping. Using resonance too would be double bookkeeping, marking off both an item and resonance. Therefore, it is not allowed.
That conflicts with goals 3 and 4. So be it. Use some other game mechanic to limit healing potions. In fact, the game already has a new mechanic to limit healing potions: potions are no longer spells in liquid form. Each potion in Pathfinder 2nd Edition has its own entry describing its properties. For example:
Elixir of Life, Lesser Item 4
Price 12 gp
Method of Use held, 1 hand; Bulk L
Activation [[A]] Operate Activation
Upon drinking this elixir, you regain 3d6 Hit Points. If you are at
maximum Hit Points when you drink this elixir, you instead gain a
+2 item bonus to Fortitude saving throws against toxins for 1 hour.
Operate Activation means that drinking it costs a resonance or it does not work. Yeah, to be doubly annoying the text hid the cost.
What if we replace it with Elixir of Vitality?
Elixir of Vitality, Lesser Item 4
Price 10 gp
Method of Use held, 1 hand; Bulk L
Activation [[A]] Operate
Upon drinking this elixir, you regain 1 hit point and 3d6 temporary hit points. The temporary Hit Points last until they are used up or until you sleep for 8 hours. Temporary hit points don't stack.
Few characters will drink several of elixirs of vitality to heal up, since they heal only one real hit point each, though they may quaff one right before a battle. Replacing Elixir of Life and Healing Potion with Elixir of Vitality would stop overuse of those potions.
The elixir is hard on barbarians, since it does not stack with the temporary hit points from raging. No solution is perfect.
Consequence 1.2) Wands are not disposible.
I presume that wands will still cost resonance, because they store abuseable spells such as Heal. Therefore, using charges would be double bookkeeping. Chargeless wands would never be used up, though they might be replaced by better wands.
In The Odyssey when Circe uses her wand to transform Odysseus's men into pigs, she does not toss the wand into the trash afterwards. In The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe the White Witch keeps her wand, too. In Disney's Sword in the Stone Merlin pulls his wand out of his sleeve, performs his magic, and returns the wand to the sleeve pocket. In the Harry Potter series, young wizards buy their wands at Ollivander's and expect to keep them for a lifetime. A few religious rituals use fresh wands carved from branches that are tossed aside afterwards, but those wands are just sticks. Only in Dungeons & Dragons and its spin-offs are magic wands disposible. Let's restore wands to folklore tradition.
Consequence 1.3) Scrolls are spammable.
Neither solution works for scrolls. Will spamming scrolls of Heal become the same problem as spamming wands of Cure Light Wounds in Pathfinder 1st Edition?
In Pathfinder 1st Edition, scrolls are harder to use than wands. We could keep that barrier in 2nd Edition.
Consequence 1.4) Staves have to change.
The Pathfinder playtest mechanism for staves is that a staff has charges and can be recharged. It must be invested via a one-hour process. During investment, it gains a number of charges based on caster level, up to its maximum charge capacity. A staff might have continuous abilities that apply when invested. and its spells costs charges and resonance to activate unless the spell is a cantrip or the wielder expends a spell slot instead.
That is too complicated and involves double bookkeeping and triple costs.
Since staves are not supposed to be large wands, we should keep the investment and the continuous effects that begin with investment. Mentalist's Staff grants a +2 circumstance bonus to checks to identify mental magic. Staff of Abjuration grants a +2 circumstance bonus to checks to identify abjuration magic. Staff of Conjuration grants a +2 circumstance bonus to checks to identify conjuration magic. Wait, are all these effects a +2 circumstance bonus to checks to identify a specific kind of magic? Nope, Staff of Fire can be used as a lighter. Staff of Healing gives bonus healing to other healing spells. Staff of Power also serves as a +3 staff weapon.
As for the other properties of staves, they could be changed in many ways. Since investment gives a continuous effect, we could stretch Principle 1 and allow resonance-spending activation for other effects. However, spending both charges and resonance is out.

Quentin Coldwater |

I've been playing 13th Age a lot lately, and their use of healing charges, much like D&D 4 did, is very appealing. Some spells allow you to heal without spending healing charges, but obviously they cost spell slots (and there's no such things as scrolls in that game), and healing potions use a healing charge plus a boost of their own. I have a few games under my belt right now, and I think my players like it. It allows everyone to heal, even mid-combat, but limiting the amount of healing they receive to a static amount works pretty well, I feel.
Still though, I don't see the problem with allowing players full access to healing items. Yeah, it's a bit lame to be fully healed up for every fight, but it allows for some tougher fights players don't walk into already half-dead.

ChibiNyan |

^^^ Good post as usual by Mathmuse.
I don't think potions were overpowered at all in 1st edition, they were expensive, cumbersome and cost actions to draw. Scrolls were quite good, however, just overshadowed by wands. Still, with how spellcasters have been nerfed, even the old scroll system might not be too bad anyways.
I think we should experiment with no resonance cost on 1-use consumables and see where that goes. Just remember to enforce bulk rules.

PossibleCabbage |

So something to be considered about consumable use is that it's conceivable that Resonance might actually encourage consumable use in a sort of roundabout way. Like I play with a group that uniformly *hates* consumables and while we stock up on CLW wands, a common complaint is something to the effect of "well, the best thing to do would be to just haul a 52 gallon drum of this potion,, but that's ridiculous so I'll just go without it" i.e. "I cannot purchase the optimal amount of this consumable, so I will go without so as to skip the mental hurdle."
So Resonance sets up an expectation of "you will want x consumables per day, where x is a small number" so you can feel like you're not being pushed to spend all your money on scrolls, but you don't feel like you're wasting anything in order to use your daily allotment of resonance since it's not like unspent points roll over.
I do prefer healing charges/surges to CLW wands/scrolls though.

Midnightoker |
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"You can't use that level 20 ring Frodo, you're only level 1".
You know the more I thought about this the more I think the one ring adopts some of the concepts of a proficiency based item system because the ring to everyone (untrained) functions as a Ring of Etherealness, but then in the hands of Sauron, Saruman, Gandalf, or Galadriel (the latter three it's implied but never happens) it is extremely powerful magically.
Just a fun thought I had. Similar could be said for Excalibur with King Arthur or any other general concept of those that can unlock the "true" power of an item. It's actually a pretty common trope in fantasy.