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I have been DMing PFS online for about a year now and am really beginning to wonder if it is worth it.
First of all, the cost of products has to be eaten up by the DM. I have to buy the scenario. There is no discount unless I am a subscriber to other things.
and I got in trouble for asking a player who already had the scenario if they could set up the maps on a Google Slide. So it seems that players can't be asked to do anything like that even though they benefit from the interaction.
It is nice that a chronicle can be applied to you as a DM but in the end is that worth it? If there are no opportunities to really advance a character other than what you are supplying is that fair?
Also, most players that I have DMed for lately have been really unappreciative. Only 2 people on 3 tables that I ran lately (about 12 or 14 people) even bothered to say thank you.
Thanks for hearing the rant.
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Despite those difficulties, and my own personal rants about how complicated and difficult the game has become now with several new classes from Advanced Class Guide, Occult Adventures, etc., I think it is worth it. I know that my own personal GM'ing has become better.
But if you are feeling underappreciated and burnt out, my suggestion is to take a step back and just play for awhile. The itch will return, but honor that itch frugally, and let it always be a new joyous experience rather than a burdensome slog.
I've only really played in homebrew myself. Pathfinder Society just looks a bit too complicated for my liking. But my DM certainly feels pretty underappreciated as well. It's something I've noticed a lot with players, both online and offline.
I may not explicitly say "thank you" after every game, but I definitely let the DM know that I appreciate the work he has put into the world and our play.
In the game I'm in now, I'm the only player that hasn't missed a session. And we're only six sessions in. In the previous one, we had one player who kept saying how excited she was to play and that she really wanted to, so the DM worked to add her character in and integrate her backstory, only for her to call out the night before with, "I really want to play, but I'm just not feeling it right now."
I would say that if you have a group that is actually invested in the game and thoroughly enjoys what you've put in front of them, then knowing and seeing how happy you are making them should mostly be thanks enough. But if you have players that just call out or not show up without a word, and don't really care... Well, then, it's not worth being a DM at all, regardless of what system or game.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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Yes, it costs time, money, and effort to GM. But there are also non-tangible rewards for it. I like to GM because I like storytelling and entertaining people. I get to spend a few hours with friends and people I like. Online play (whether PbP or through videochat) is a very different beast, I find. There's less direct interaction, and I miss the physicality of it. Maybe that's part of why you're burnt out about it, I don't know. And yeah, I always thank my table for joining me, and they usually thank me in return. Not everyone might, but I usually feel it's implied, anyway.
If you're feeling burnt out, just stop for a while. You shouldn't force yourself, and if you stop GMing, maybe your players will start to poke you again for more games. Then you know you're appreciated, because without you, they can't play.
Contributor
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For me, it is totally worth it. I GM quite a bit, and I get a lot of enjoyment out of it. But I'm fortunate enough that I get to play even more than I GM.
I'm going to second Kwinten here. You sound like you need a break. Take some time away from the GM seat. Hopefully, another player can take up the mantle for a little while. (And that is one substantial benefit of PFS over other campaigns: it's very easy to switch out GMs for each scenario.) Even if no one else wants to try out the hot seat, don't feel obligated to keep pushing yourself when it's not fun. That's the kind of thing that leads to leaving gaming altogether.
I hope you get a chance to play for a while, and I hope you can find whatever spark made you start GMing in the first place.
Venture-Lieutenant, Online—PbP
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Terevalis, the rewards are not supposed to be 'worth it.' The rewards are supposed to be nice extras for doing something you already enjoy. If you don't enjoy GMing, then don't. If you enjoy it, then do it, and don't worry about the rewards.
Non-PFS GM's have similar struggles. Sometimes you get a good bunch of players, and other times you don't.
As for being appreciative, most of the time you will get more "thank you's" from players who have also GM'd.
Until someone does it, they don't really know what goes into it.
For them the game just happens, but when they have to prep their own games they realize that it doesn't just happen.
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It's not dismissive; it's reality. If you do not enjoy GMing for the sake of GMing, then it is not 'worth it' because you need to spend time and money for a random group of people who may or may not even enjoy what you're serving.
Also, most players that I have DMed for lately have been really unappreciative. Only 2 people on 3 tables that I ran lately (about 12 or 14 people) even bothered to say thank you.
I'm entering dangerous territory here because I think there's only a sliver of a chance of this producing growth and, as an injured party, am emotionally invested. That said, I proceed.
You should look at yourself as to why players have been unappreciative.
This was my last interaction with you as a GM:
For some reason this particular scenario is not so fun online, Would anyone be remiss if we stopped, I awarded the chronicle and we did a module? That seems to be easier to run.
That was after the very first encounter in Master of the Fallen Fortress. It took a month to climb onto the second floor because you disappeared for weeks at a time without warning or explanation. On multiple occasions we could have (and should have) requested a replacement GM for game abandonment. Did you have a good reason for disappearing? I'm willing to believe that you did. Were the players left cold, confused, and anxious about the state of their characters? Yes, we were, repeatedly.
I have no reason to believe that you've behaved differently in other sessions that you've run, so I'm not at all surprised that the players felt unappreciative.
My advice, specific to you, is this:
1. Read Painlord's Guide to PbP GMing and internalize it.
2. Respect your players before you expect them to shower you with gratitude.
3. Run no more than one table at a time.
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I think the first and most important step is to identify what, exactly, you would hope to gain from GMing PFS - and those 'gains' can be anything from earning things like GM stars or boons, being able to match chronicles to the characters that would get the most use from them, receiving accolades and compliments from your players, or just the general experience and joy of being a GM and storyteller. I really don't think that there's a 'wrong' answer here, especially not when I sometimes see it suggested to people to run games in order to earn race boons and such. However, I *do* hope that you genuinely enjoy GMing for the sake of GMing to some degree because I think that would certainly make the process easier for you.
That being said, you need to decide how important any and all of the above reasons are to you versus the stresses and occasional disappointments that also go along with GMing. And no matter what your reasons for GMing might be, you (a 'general you') always need to be sure to give each game your all and do everything within your power to show your players how excited you are to be running for them and to show them a good time. There will always be some players that don't seem to appreciate or acknowledge that effort but in my (admittedly limited) experience, the more effort you put into running your games, the more effort and positive response you'll receive from your players in return.
*edit* To be clear, I fully agree that a person should GM because they find the process of GMing to be an enjoyable and fulfilling experience in its own right partly because that's what makes the most sense to me (why do something if you don't enjoy it) and partly because people tend to do better at things they enjoy. But I don't see anything wrong with combining that with a desire to earn some of the 'perks' built into Organized Play for those that GM, either.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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Jason,
I have never played under you as a GM, so far my only real interaction was when you applied to my first PBP offering.
I would like to echo others who have said if you don't enjoy it, please don't GM. In my opinion, a GM needs to find something they enjoy about it if they are going to give the players a fun time. Just going through the motions with minimal investment is not going to make it.
There are several things that people can find rewarding about GMing. I think the answers are more varied than the reasons that people play the game. You get a chance to see how other players run their characters, perhaps picking up techniques that you will find useful. You get a chance to experiment with a wide variety of character classes and see how they perform as you try to run the NPCs. You get to meet and interact with new people.
If all you are out for is free stuff, you probably will not find it rewarding. It costs more materials and time to GM than it does to play. That has always been my experience, regardless of campaign or game system.
Even if you don't find it rewarding, perhaps you can get something out of your experiences so far. Look at what you do as a player and see if it is what you wanted your characters to give you. Look at how your characters interact with the other characters and see if that is how you would have wanted one of your characters to have interacted with the others. Learn from your experiences and try to apply that to what you do as a player.
Whether players are thankful, depends on several things. Their understanding for the effort was already called out, but it's also about their personality: Some people are very appreciative, some are too busy with their own misery, some are completely different, etc..
It also depends on availability. If you are the only GM within reach, your table seems more valuable, hence players will be more thankful. Finally, real life friends will be more friendly than strangers that met you just because of some organized play.
So in average it seems like PFS will result in less thanks than a private homegame. Maybe you can encourage it by asking for players' opinions at the end. It's basically fishing for compliments, but it helps them to realize that the GM is a person - and a person who actually cares. Finally, feedback can be quite helpful to improve GMing, given it's provided in a not-overly-destructive way.
Personally I am no friend of PFS (the rule restrictions alone kill it for me), but from what I see on the boards, for some people it's possible to be a happy GM there.
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But I don't see anything wrong with combining that with a desire to earn some of the 'perks' built into Organized Play for those that GM, either.
I certainly don't find anything wrong with desiring a perk for GMing. I would probably GM less if I didn't get character credit to balance the time I give up by running instead of playing (live or online). It's even completely fine to to wish there was something more (I wish I could earn an Aasimar boon GMing PbP because my wife won't let me play live enough to earn one through RSP).
Lamenting that I spent $10 per month to run PFS scenarios, not to mention the cost of the pawn sets, maps, paper, ink, etc, and wish that I could recover something more than character participation credit, replay options, and bonuses on my promotional re-rolls is one thing. Perfectly reasonable desires.
However, that's different than criticizing players for not doing my GM prep for me or not saying thank you enough (and I thanked him for the Confirmation that he ran and for the botched MoFF).
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My suggestion, as someone who dropped from one of your games, is to cut down on the amount of PbP you do. By my last count you were involved in over two dozen games.
I expressed concern to you at the time, and your response several days later was something to the effect of "I do my best".
I have no reason to doubt that you want to do your best, but I have reason to doubt that you are able to do your best.
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Terevalis,
The reason the online VO team was contacted about your requests for help with the maps was likely due to miscommunication between you and your players. Your players felt that you were not asking someone to help you create maps for them, but rather that you were demanding that they do so. Asking is cool, demanding is not cool. The only advice I can give you there, is to try to think how to word such a request to help the players understand you are making a request rather than an order.
A lot of our online interactions can become muddled because a written medium often fails to adequately confer tone. This is something we all need to remember from time to time.
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But I don't see anything wrong with combining that with a desire to earn some of the 'perks' built into Organized Play for those that GM, either.I certainly don't find anything wrong with desiring a perk for GMing. I would probably GM less if I didn't get character credit to balance the time I give up by running instead of playing (live or online). It's even completely fine to to wish there was something more (I wish I could earn an Aasimar boon GMing PbP because my wife won't let me play live enough to earn one through RSP).
Lamenting that I spent $10 per month to run PFS scenarios, not to mention the cost of the pawn sets, maps, paper, ink, etc, and wish that I could recover something more than character participation credit, replay options, and bonuses on my promotional re-rolls is one thing. Perfectly reasonable desires.
However, that's different than criticizing players for not doing my GM prep for me or not saying thank you enough (and I thanked him for the Confirmation that he ran and for the botched MoFF).
I dont recall asking you to help with maps, I simply let you guys know that I was new to DMing PbP and asked for patience, which you seemed unable to give.
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I have seen case where GMs refuse to take on certain players and players refuse to play with certain GMs.
If a player is being disruptive you have the right to ask them to stop. If they don't stop, you have the right to boot them from the table.
You can certainly contact us, especially if you feel the issue with the player goes beyond the game you are running.
Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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It’s not so bad this time, is it? You’re getting your chance to vent, and I am listening.
Sometimes when I PM, I have to put on the Official VC Cranky Pants. (They issue them out of HQ along with red shirts when you become a VC, alas.) Other times I can listen, talk, or be a sounding board.
I will try to put the cranky pants in the closet. They don’t fit me well, anyway.
Hmm
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It’s not so bad this time, is it? You’re getting your chance to vent, and I am listening.
Sometimes when I PM, I have to put on the Official VC Cranky Pants. (They issue them out of HQ along with red shirts when you become a VC, alas.) Other times I can listen, talk, or be a sounding board.
I will try to put the cranky pants in the closet. They don’t fit me well, anyway.
Hmm
Since I have not received my PM I cannot comment on what was said or not said.
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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So... I have been thinking about the original question. Is it worth GMing?
For me the answer has been unequivocally yes. However my experience with GMing has been mostly positive in PFS. I have a blast with the story, and enjoy helping the player characters interact with both my absurd NPCs and the setting. Because I am having a great time, my players tend to have a great time too.
I have had great luck with my tables. Just about every table that I have run has been full of awesome people. About the only time that I have not enjoyed it is when I have been overloaded or overwhelmed. (Cosmic Captive, I am looking at you.)
If GMing has become a chore though, that might be part of the problem. If you’re not having fun, neither will the players.
Hmm
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I firmly believe that you must enjoy GMing on its own merits. You must enjoy delivering a story, interacting with your players, and running the mechanical aspects. No amount of incentives, perks or credits can turn something you hate into something you like (ask anyone whose had a job they didn't like :>)
From the topics that you're focusing on in this thread, its clear that you don't actually enjoy GMing games on PbP. That you're forcing yourself in order to 'pay back GMs that have run things for you in the past'.
To answer the question at the top of the thread: Yes, its is ABSOLUTELY worth it to be a PFS GM. However, it may not be worth it for you specifically. If it isn't, don't GM. That's all there is to it.