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How much of the responsibility for the fun falls on the players though?
Why don't you ask for feedback from the players. Ask for what improvements you need to make to have made the game better. Take any feedback as areas for improvement. If you take it like criticism or get defensiveyou won't get honest feedback.
I don't know a single GM who is perfect. Everyone can improve even the very best.
Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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My GM Prep used to take days. Now, I have gotten much more efficient about it, but I still over-prep things. I figure that for most players, you will be running them through the only time that they will get to play that scenario, ever. So I want their one precious chance at the scenario to be an excellent experience.
I hear you about cost of GMing, HWalsh. I use little paper minis that I got from Rich Burlew’s kickstarter, and I draw a lot of maps. The paper minis still have to be printed in color, cut out and glued on card stock, though. (You can find some of them here.) Still, some people use starbursts or candy in lieu of minis, and at least one GM that I know just uses abstract bases of the right size. So there are some budget options.
That said, my flip mat addiction has gotten to be very pricey. I still love my flip mats though, as they are great for conventions when one is GMing one scenario and then moving quickly onto another.
Terevalis, has anyone showed you how to extract images for maps for running online? I needed help about three times before I finally figured out how to do it for myself.
Hmm
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I have to say that I find GMing for PFS very rewarding! I haven't done PFS very long, but I have been a GM/DM since D&D red box days. I love how the scenarios are all different but woven together into an overarching story line set in an ever evolving dynamic world.
GMing for me is my chance to preform for an audience of players at my table. I do voices, I love RP, when I read a scenario for the first time, I can hear the NPCs in my head as they talk to the PCs and I try to bring that to the table.
If my players have a good time, whether they compliment/thank me or not, I have had a good time and feel successful! If they have had fun I have had fun. That is my reward from GMing PFS, the chance to be creative, expressive and give someone else a good time for 4-5 hours if I do it right. Sure I like the credit for my own characters, but I find that if I like a scenario, or the NPCs in one, I will often run it several times for no credit just because it is fun for me. Boons are nice, gift certs ect., but those things are all gravy because I'm having fun.
I got to GM at GenCon last year and to me it was like playing in the nerd/geek version of the Super Bowl! I ran two PFS specials and the Starfinder special twice. IT WAS A BLAST! Yes it cost me money to prep, flip mats, printed and laminated custom maps, minis, some I fabricated myself, special paper for the chronicle sheets I gave my players. I think I spent about $125 total. But it was worth it! I wanted to take it up a notch and make it special for my players,I wanted them to have a great PFS experience at GenCon!
To me PFS is a community, if you become part of the community through playing and you are enjoying the experience and appreciate the work it takes to keep the community going then I believe there will come a time you will want to give back to the community from which you have gotten so much enjoyment. At least that is how it worked out for me. YMMV
My last comment is something my Uncle us to say, "If you love what you do you'll never work a day in your life!" If GMing is becoming a chore for you find another way to give back to the PFS community, you deserve to have fun too!
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Yes it is. PFS has given me a great deal of system mastery in a very short amount of time and now it gives me a chance to "practice" should I ever decide to run another homebrew, or an AP; It has exposed me to good behavior, bad behavior and every behavior in between and has helped me understand how to respond to each. It has shown me how to deal with situations that weren't in the book, how to present situations for the enjoyment of all, and how to deal with passages that could have been written better. I have gotten to meet old friends whom I never thought I'd see again, get to make new friends, meet exciting new people, give newcomers their first taste of a role playing game, or a d20 game. It has enabled me to learn how to assess people and make decisions based on these people with the goal of pleasing as many people as I can with the material I have available.
But the thing that makes it the most worthwhile for me? It's that I get to employ these ridiculous voices that I could never otherwise bring to bear, such as my ASMR Bob Ross/Ashasar, or my shrill and strident/every Taldane Ever, my sultry vixen/Zarta and my really, really bad eastern/Old Pak. When I GM PbP, its the challenge of painting a story better than the boxed text, imbuing the NPCs with more than the few seeds of personality that are gifted to us by the scenario writers to bring the story into bloom. It's the work with punctuation, the hours spent wrestling with google translate for foreign looking fonts, sometimes even the time spent finding the correct music track on YouTube to perhaps enhance the scene I am describing. That's what makes the work worth it.
Sometimes I mess up. Sometimes I try and do things that really don't work. Sometimes I futz a rule. And while I don't exactly relish messing up and possibly looking like a fool, I take some solace in knowing that I can do better next time, because I won't make that mistake again (hopefully).
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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Terevalis, has anyone showed you how to extract images for maps for running online? I needed help about three times before I finally figured out how to do it for myself.
For the Confirmation he's running now, I volunteered to extract the images for him. (My preferred tool for extraction is NitroReader 3, which is no longer available for download AFAIK (unless you go for a localized Dutch version ;-) ))
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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How much of the responsibility for the fun falls on the players though?
A lot. Certainly in a PbP. I would make Painlords' Building-a-Better-Doomed-Hero guide a compulsory read for my players.
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How much of the responsibility for the fun falls on the players though?A lot. Certainly in a PbP. I would make Painlords' Building-a-Better-Doomed-Hero guide a compulsory read for my players.
I know that this is technically true in that I get out what I put in as a player and I need to do more than just roll dice on PbP if I'm going to insist on that in the games I run, but I think we have to be careful not to suggest the expectation that the players entertain us as GMs.
What is entertaining to me is subjective. The player may be trying his sincere and level best, but I may not be entertained as the GM. This doesn't make him a bad player. If I'm overloaded with games and burnt out so that nothing feels fun, it doesn't make my players bad players because I'm not entertained. I'm not a fan of certain creative styles, but it doesn't make those players bad players.
So, yes, the player needs to participate and be engaged in the story, but they are not responsible for my sense of enjoyment (unless they're doing something negative that I've asked them to not do).
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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GMing can be rewarding, but sometimes you just need to stop and recharge.
Some sessions will be amazing and revitalized your motivation to GM and others will make you question why you just spend 12 hours to prep a scenario. It happens, sometimes negative experiences (as GM or players) teach you what you really don't enjoy and you can try to avoid those tables.
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Terevalis, has anyone showed you how to extract images for maps for running online? I needed help about three times before I finally figured out how to do it for myself.For the Confirmation he's running now, I volunteered to extract the images for him. (My preferred tool for extraction is NitroReader 3, which is no longer available for download AFAIK (unless you go for a localized Dutch version ;-) ))
He did but I already had the maps from previous Confirmation.
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Venture-Agent, New Hampshire—Nashua
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Is it worth being a PFS GM? Yes. Absolutely.
It's also important, I have found, to not spread yourself across too many GM duties at once. I'm running Strange Aeons in a non-PFS setting and GMing at my FLGS about once or twice a month, and that's definitely my limit.
Do it because you love it, not because you feel you have to.
Venture-Captain, Isles—Online
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I find it incredibly rewarding to GM, thats why i have over 200 games of credit, but many of the players wont ever thank you for running a game even F2F.
If your running games purely for the reward, then give up now - most players have no idea the amount of prep time that GM's invest, but i find its pretty much 1:1 prep time to run time, either for online or F2F. As to the expense - its still one of the cheapest hobbies around, but you will never see a return on even a small investment as a GM.
You can mitigate this, by running the same adventures multiple times, or asking players to chip in for a scenario. I myself have a very small number of scenarios that i haven't played, and if a GM volunteers to run one of them, then i gift them the scenario from Paizo
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I don’t ask if it’s worth it being a PFS GM, I simply ask if it’s worth it to GM and so far the answer has always been yes. Does it cost more to GM than play? Absolutely. And cost is not just monetary. It’s the time you take to prep, it’s the mental investment you make both before and during the game to provide the environment for others to have have fun. It can be the cost of snacks during the game. It can be the cost of giving up something else you could have done with your time. When you look at the total cost, yes GMing is absolutely expensive. But, the question you asked is, is it worth it, and that cannot be answered by anyone else. It is a very personal question. The bottom line is do you feel you are getting as much or more enjoyment out of GMing than whatever else you would be doing with all those resources? Either way, you have your answer and let that drive your decision making.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I absolutely think it's worth being a PFS GM. As many others have said, the enjoyment and excitement of your players is its own reward, even if they don't express gratitude every time. (Maybe, as a high school teacher, I'm just accustomed to thankless work.) Also keep in mind that some folks who play PFS don't have a regular "home" group, and you're offering an access point to the game. That's priceless.
That being said, GM burnout can hit hard. It helps to find a group that's willing to rotate GMs, or at least give the "main" GM an occasional break. All the better if they're able to share gaming resources (such as minis and terrain; don't pirate PDFs!) in order to split the monetary burden.
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Does the store participate in the Retail Incentive Program?
I mentioned it but I am not sure that they want to go that route.
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From what I understand from my local store is that they are happy to run Adventure League and not so much PF or SF Society because they kind of get cut out of the loop. Paizo sells directly to the players via pdf but WOTC does not do that so the store can make money selling books and stuff.
I hear this a lot and one thing stores need to remember is that just because we play PFS, does not mean that is the only thing we play. A player can spend money on anything once they are in the store, but first they have to be IN THE STORE. If you offer OP then they are in the store. It really is that simply. Not carrying Paizo product because they have a problem with the marketing model is one thing, but to actively keep the players out of the store because of it is really short sited and frankly a poor business decision.
There are plenty of game stores that make money on Paizo products. They may just have to be careful which ones they stock. I have never found a store that cracked cases of minis for singles sales to lose money on that product line. The rest is simply paying attention to what your customers want and stocking that. Too many store owners take a passive approach, just buy a few things here and there and then blame Paizo's sale model or the players for not buying them.
In Madison organized play is concentrated entirely on the east side of town, I'd go play, but I don't really want to drive a half hour to get there.
In Madison organized play is concentrated entirely on the east side of town, I'd go play, but I don't really want to drive a half hour to get there.
On the other side of this, the best place to play PFS in Cleveland is on the west side and several players make a 30-40 minute drive in traffic so they can get a good game in. We have a strong player and GM base and I'd be so bold as to say that is the reason people do it. There are several alternatives for us east siders, but quality games are soooo worth the drive.
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Are you GMing for random people or an official venture agent? It almost sounds like venture agent which I'd have little input to offer on as I don't think I could go that path.
Do you just GM and never play?
The guaranteed character advancement with full benefits and no death chance for your early levels is nice. Until you are running yet another Confirmation and end up having no idea what new character concept to come up with to apply your credit to. I believe my last one is currently named, on this website, Future Paladin-Thing.
If it is always total strangers you GM for then I can imagine a lot of personality conflict. Trying to maintain a sense of order with a self-centered inclusive culture person (I do what ever I want when I please with no downsides, a.k.a. spoiled brat) can drive you nuts. Once you find your own personal way to twist inclusiveness against the inclusive person to reign them in things can get easier with those types.
If it is distractions and arguments that hinder things, pre-planning potential situations and rehearsing verbal rebuttals ahead of time is very helpful.
It can be so long as you aren't getting burnt out on always being the GM.
Remember the GM does not need to own a single scenario. Do you have any friends that got some of the past humble bundles? I own four entire seasons from the humble bundles and that is what I GM with unless someone wants to pass me something else.
Half an hour drive is practically next door!
I have two kids, so adding an hour onto an already 3-5 hours isn't so easy.
Doable yes, but not easy.
But it's all good, I just play with my wife and kids, we're just not organized. :-)
...if one drives.
This is a good point, not everyone has cars and not everyone has access to good/convenient public transit. BigNorseWolf does offer up a good point that would probably help some people getting around. Takes a little coordination, but, at least for me, the utility of experiencing a good game is really high and that would be totally worth it.
Hopefully PbP or Discord fills the void that a lack of reliable long distance travel creates though! Both methods can increase the level of random players/GM and increase the risk of a bad game, but such is life.
Now that I think about it, I think I drove about the same to consistently attend a good game in New Jersey too! The things I do for Pathfinder...
I guess to actually contribute to this thread, I think GMing is worth it.
EDIT: Kids? Can't you just put those things in a play pen, maybe put out some water and Cheerios, then leave them alone for like 12 hours? :)
Should be a geek coming from the same direction
...if one drives.
Oh gosh no! Every nerd I've met on the west side is hardcore D&D! As in they'd only heard about Pathfinder but never played.
It's really weird, but nerds here are definitely territorial.
In fairness, there was one west side group that was going to let me bring a Pathfinder character to their 3.5 edition game, but our car was not dependable at the time, it was winter, and bus service on the west side is atrocious.
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As someone who enjoys Gm'ing home games but doesn't particularly enjoy Gm'ing society play, I wanted to give my 2 cents.
When I GM a home campaign I feel like I am both the artist, writer, and rulebook for the world. Certainly, I take from the source game heavily, but it very much feels like "my world." I get quite a bit of enjoyment from players just experiencing the things I created.
When I play PFS my character gets to interact with the world, I get to experience a narrative through my own work.
But, when I GM society play, to put it bluntly, it feels like work. I am just the enforcer of rules and narrator, much of what I enjoy from GM'ing homebrew is stripped from this side of the game.
I have hobbies, I enjoy them and will spend money on them. I have hundreds of dollars of pathfinder stuff and I don't regret buying it. But, I am always reluctant to but scenarios. To me, the difference is that people will spend money on a hobby but no one wants to spend money on work.
Now to be clear I am not saying anything needs to be changed. I will still gladly GM because I still enjoy pathfinder and so do my players and essentially I will always choose to "bite the bullet" if it means we get to keep playing.
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I run a home campaign (still on 3.5e), my wife runs a pathfinder AP that I play in, I play and GM PFS (though I haven't GM'd very many PFS tables as yet).
I drive 3 hours to run my home campaign; consequently we only play 6-8 times per year. The other players include my brother and a couple of old friends, in the area I grew up in and where my family still live. I combine family visits with D&D. :) I drive one and a half hours to my "local" PFS lodge, when I can fit it in. So this is why I think of half an hour's journey as next door.
I probably have a preference for running games in my own homebrew setting, for similar reasons to the ones Backpack has given, but I do still enjoy GM'ing PFS. I like the storytelling and the performance. I've had great PFS games with other GMs who obviously also enjoy these aspects of the game.
In short - it's worth it if you get enjoyment from it.
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To clarify things a bit, because my comment was a bit vague and it merits expansion:
I do not drive, not because of losing my license but because of a realization back in the *early '90's* that I was too distracted behind the wheel when practicing for the test. And that was before things like celphones and texting and the like.
In my particular location, the nearest gaming stores are about a half hour to an hour away by car, or about three hours away in each direction via public transportation on the weekends.
There are no people nearby that head to those locations that it wouldn't be a stupidly horrible inconvenience to pick me up.
When there is a convention with a place I can stay at (and more importantly, swing time off of work for) then it's not that much of an additional push to travel out one day and then back at the end of the event.
I even made the trip down to Winter War this year, though the tables didn't go off.
I was there, prepared to run, and it was worth it at least for the experience to do that.
If it wasn't worth it, I wouldn't've bothered volunteering in the first place.
Or paid for the maps I needed to run.
Or for a suite.
Or the train tickets.
Or the hotel room.
Or the meals over that weekend.
Being able to play and/or online is a godsend, but it also has drawbacks, and overextension happens both to GMs and players.
When I've cleared my docket a bit I'm considering a PFS PbP, but details on when/how/what are still being tumbled in my head.
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Should be a geek coming from the same direction
...if one drives.Oh gosh no! Every nerd I've met on the west side is hardcore D&D! As in they'd only heard about Pathfinder but never played.
It's really weird, but nerds here are definitely territorial.
In fairness, there was one west side group that was going to let me bring a Pathfinder character to their 3.5 edition game, but our car was not dependable at the time, it was winter, and bus service on the west side is atrocious.
*pictures geeks walking at each other and snapping fingers ala the sharks and hets*
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Yup, it's exactly like that!
A lot of theater nerds in Madison.
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Oh! We're talking about gaming on the cheap now! That's my wheelhouse!
Target Christmas wrapping paper has super handy one inch squares on the back, I ran both Skull and Shackles and Reign of Winter with it.
Half Price Books is a great place to look for Bestiary pawn sets and books.
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Staples has an easel with one inch squares on it, I bought it to make the introductory map to Bid for Alabastrine, have since used it for Lyrics of Extinction, Shores of Heaven, and Wrath of the Fleshwarped Queen.
Wouldn't recommend it for just anyone, and it's part of why I need a lot of lead prep time for a scenario -- it took me several hours to get that last one drawn out and I screwed it up on a few levels that still bug me but do a far, far better job than drawing some random squiggly lines in on a flipmat.
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I'll admit, it is very expensive to GM for PFS.
In person there is actually less set up than there is online, especially if you have access to the flip maps. Those things aren't cheap though.
A cheaper option that I use a lot is to get the Flipmat & MapPack pdfs instead of the real things. I can print 1 side of a flip mat onto 9 sheets of regular copy paper, then glue them together to make the full map (or not glue them, for easier storage).
If I want to conceal part of the map, I can use blank paper or a piece of cheap fabric. (I found fabric printed with a 1" checkerboard pattern that can double as a flipmat in a pinch.)
The MapPacks are even easier, since I only print the tiles needed for the given map that I'm building, and don't bother to print the extraneous tiles at all. (And it's amazing how often specific tiles get re-used in the exact same configuration. I swear, the same 3-4 tiles from Ruins, Magic Academy, Towns, and Starship Corridors have seen more use than some of the more popular Flipmats!)
PDFs are cheaper, never go out of print, never sell out at the FLGS, and limits the space needed to store them.
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Venture-Lieutenant, California—Los Angeles (South Bay)
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For myself, GMing is worth it in that I help players to have fun. GMing in PFS will have a few costs but it can have many rewards. I have introduced new people to gaming. I have helped some of my players become GMs in their own right.
In the end, I think it is vital for everyone at the gaming table to have fun. So, there are things that can be done to help make this happen. Communication is crucial in building positive player-GM relationships. Also, GMs do need to take a break every now and then.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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I have been detered from running games due to social anxiety and a medical condition that makes me feel unexpectedly ill at any given moment. There's also the issue for me is that conventions feel criminally short and many conventions have tons of different games to play and try out. Oftentimes I feel like I'm not making the best use of the convention by playing or running a game I can do at home.
Despite this, I really want to GM. I tried using the con boons to persuade myself to do it despite the anxiety. However, that plan failed after I became discouraged for running a game at an online con only to find out the VC couldn't get con support for it.